angryfan62 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Wouldn't "getting the arms down" constitute holding? Wouldn't they physically have to bring these arms down by grabbing them and pulling them down? From what I understand if the D lineman tries to stop his rush and get his hands up the O lineman is to "block" (actually strike) with both hands to the midsection of D lineman. Hands come down quite quickly then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Damn Reed....that is a lot - First....and off the top. I am in no way not calling you a true bills fan. - You say that we need a QB....but in our conversation the names came up of at least 3 QB's come up in the conversation......EJ Manuel does NOT have to become a top 5 QB in order for this team to win the Super Bowl - The patriots are brought up.....but what teams have been a thorn in the patriots side.......The GIANTS.......and the JETS....never of those teams had top 5 QBs Ugh 14+ years of frustration...it has worn me out Plus this place either you hate a guy or you love him. Honestly I'm indifferent on EJ; I just want to win baby I never said you were John Just felt like I needed to get that out there...ugh what a complainer I have become Honestly, I don't want just a Super Bowl win and fade away like almost all do now....I just don't want a goal of the playoffs; honestly what is the point? Oooh we made the playoffs...meh. If we get to the playoffs I want to win and not be a sacrificial lamb.... We started a tradition in the 90s that the SB goes through the us and we need to get back to that. That is what we as fans deserve; the Buffalo region deserves and this team needs to carry on that tradition and bring us back to being winners & relevant.... The Pats* always make it deep and they will as long as they have Brady. A great QB always gets you far, he does it consistently and he makes up for other holes in your team (Manning & the Colts). Yes you can have a team with great players and an okay QB, but those are the ones that fade away...we deserve more than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Wrong. EJ stared down all of his receivers, so badly, that if you go and look at his last batted pass, the defender dropped away from his rush and was able to get his hands up to knock EJs pass down. Since when is throwing to your first read "staring down your receiver"? Its a quick slant pattern. If its open you throw it. There is no "looking off a safety" on a three step slant. The o-line know the play, or they should, so they need to keep the d-lines hands down. Some people are making this a lot more complicated than it should be. That deep ball to MW was a thing of beauty, and is enough to encourage me about EJ going into Carolina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Beebe Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 In fact, what we saw was the Giants leave their starting offense in an extra series so they could make up for being so bad the first two, followed by leaving their #2's in for a good while after the Bills had switched to their 3's. Both Giants TDs happened while they were mismatching strings against the Bills. This is what I noticed. Also EJ did not play enough to settle down and get into a groove. Give him a little more time and I think he will be alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Just put EJ in the shotgun to get a pass off that much quicker. This OL is new and struggles. If they can't run for 200+ yards with 4 good RBs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Since when is throwing to your first read "staring down your receiver"? Its a quick slant pattern. If its open you throw it. There is no "looking off a safety" on a three step slant. The o-line know the play, or they should, so they need to keep the d-lines hands down. Some people are making this a lot more complicated than it should be. That deep ball to MW was a thing of beauty, and is enough to encourage me about EJ going into Carolina. Exactly. Maybe we should use pictures to illustrate the point? Here's the play were Sammy was running a quick slant. Manuel is in the shot gun, does a quick 3-step drop and looks to Sammy, who is wide open. Ball is hiked, notice the time on the clock. Also, as you can see there is no safety in the picture. He's basically playing center fielder, so there is no reason to "look off" the safety: This is 2 seconds later, as Manuel has completed his drop, looks to his first read, who is wide open. He's wide open, so there is no need to look anyone off. Urbik, has not engaged Kiwanuka, so he is free to do what he wants. Which is bat down the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I don't want just a Super Bowl win and fade away like almost all do now.... Reed your passion spills out in your posts and I think a lot understand your frustration. I've been a Bills fan since 2002 and we haven't even been to the play-offs in that time... I'm kinda sick of the hoping as well.... but honestly the bit of your post I've quoted...... I might sell members of my family for that..... I wouldn't care if we faded away for another 14 years afterwards.... the Bills WIN a Superbowl (by domination or by fluke I wouldn't mind)?? That would keep me going for about 20 years I think Disclaimer: I wouldn't actually sell members of my family...... or I don't think I would.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angryfan62 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Exactly. Maybe we should use pictures to illustrate the point? Here's the play were Sammy was running a quick slant. Manuel is in the shot gun, does a quick 3-step drop and looks to Sammy, who is wide open. Ball is hiked, notice the time on the clock. Also, as you can see there is no safety in the picture. He's basically playing center fielder, so there is no reason to "look off" the safety: This is 2 seconds later, as Manuel has completed his drop, looks to his first read, who is wide open. He's wide open, so there is no need to look anyone off. Urbik, has not engaged Kiwanuka, so he is free to do what he wants. Which is bat down the ball. Thanks, well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) People do realize that most of the time (not always but most) that batted down passes are on the O line and not the QB? Offensive linemen are taught to get the arms down of defensive linemen on pass plays....its football 101. I didnt like the almost int that EJ through last night (although...lets be real...LOTS of good QB's throw almost int's).....but for some reason people are blaming EJ for the batted passes as well. How the hell's an offensive lineman supposed to get the arms of a LB that's 10 yards away down? ... or a DE that's dropped into coverage? Otherwise, when the ball's thrown at helmet/head level, I don't think that arms are an issue. Edited August 5, 2014 by TaskersGhost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Your argument would hold water if he wasnt' staring down the WR from the snap AND his release point was too low. But other than those FACTS, I am sure you have a point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Some is on lineman, some is on the QB to find passing lanes. EJ gets so locked on a receiver that he sees nothing else. Not to mention, all the things he was knacked on in college we are seeing now. Do I want him to succeed, heck yeah! That being said I just really have my doubts and remain skeptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) Having first met him when he was a high school freshman at Bayside, nobody is pulling for EJ more than me. And it's true the OL needs to do what they can to keep the DL's hands down. But it's also true the QB has some responsibility to avoid batted-down passes such as changing delivery, stepping to one side or another, or moving to another target. This pissing contest about blaming the OL or the QB is inane. Edited August 5, 2014 by Campy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Well at least you have an open mind. A lot of smart people make judgements after 1 season. Moulds is a bust! That's not a proper comparison, because Moulds was much more NFL ready than EJ is. He played very well when he was on the field and given the opportunities. But since Marv wanted to teach him a lesson, he rarely saw the field in his first two years. Things miraculously changed with a new coaching staff. Totally different circumstance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Reed your passion spills out in your posts and I think a lot understand your frustration. I've been a Bills fan since 2002 and we haven't even been to the play-offs in that time... I'm kinda sick of the hoping as well.... but honestly the bit of your post I've quoted...... I might sell members of my family for that..... I wouldn't care if we faded away for another 14 years afterwards.... the Bills WIN a Superbowl (by domination or by fluke I wouldn't mind)?? That would keep me going for about 20 years I think Disclaimer: I wouldn't actually sell members of my family...... or I don't think I would.... LOL trust me after being the 2nd winningest team int he 90s and barely winning in the next 15 years. Even if we won 1 SB; it would be irrelevant for sucking so bad for so long... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 But what a hell of a party......... I think I'd be drunk for a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) To be followed by... They were just preseason games. It's only been a couple of regular season games. We're only halfway through the season. He was injured for part of the season, wait until you see what he does next year. Wait Wut? We have never heard those excuses before... I mean if you dont' include... Todd Collins Billy Joe Hobag RJ JP Trent Fitz.... Edited August 5, 2014 by Kellyto83TD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Wait Wut? We have never heard those excuses before... I mean if you dont' include... Todd Collins Billy Joe Hobag RJ JP Trent Fitz.... Can you please tell me what those QB's have to do with EJ. I would love you to try to tie this together!! Next please tell me we should only draft an ole Miss QB because Eli Manning went to Ole Miss and he won 2 superbowl. I just love irrelevant data so much!!! Your argument would hold water if he wasnt' staring down the WR from the snap AND his release point was too low. But other than those FACTS, I am sure you have a point Can you provide eveidence to back up those facts. you know like pictures like Wayne provided showing his release point VS say Rodgers, Brady or Manning. Next please show me evidence of a 5esecond + stare down of a wr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Wrong. EJ stared down all of his receivers, so badly, that if you go and look at his last batted pass, the defender dropped away from his rush and was able to get his hands up to knock EJs pass down. He actually just stopped rushing on the play it was that bad. The offensive lineman(not sure who it was) almost fell forward a little... what should he have done? it's not football 101 in any way, in fact, it's called holding. Further evidence of EJs inability to look anyone off was his near INT. It was so bad that the linebacker didn't even have to watch the route. Sorry pal, EJs flaws are entirely his own, and 100% due to his play. That is your opinion and you can have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBD Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) Wouldn't "getting the arms down" constitute holding? Wouldn't they physically have to bring these arms down by grabbing them and pulling them down? If you're engaged with him his hands will not be up. If he jumps it leaves his middle open to being hit which will quickly bring his hands down or leave him open to being driven into the ground. Urbik likely got scolded because of the play, as well as Manuel. It doesn't have to be an either/or. Edited August 5, 2014 by Carey Bender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Can you please tell me what those QB's have to do with EJ. I would love you to try to tie this together!! Uhh, I think that anyone understands what he said. The same excuses are conveniently recycled from season to season. Notice how they're saying about Manuel that he looked "calm and under control" or something like that, formerly known as "poised." Problem is that "poised" wore out its welcome during Edwards brief tenure here. That word here associated with Manuel would be more associated with negatives than positives. We can argue and bicker amongst each other, but it's clear that Manuel was a terrible draft pick and that he's going nowhere in the NFL now. The only difference is that some see that now while it's going to take it being completely obvious after the fact, like it was with Fitzpatrick and Edwards too, before they figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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