eball Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 Ok, this is a bit disingenuous. I agree as much as anyone that it was likely time to move on, but lets not paint him as a crappy player. Clutch? I'll give you that. Gameplans? He is usually lined up across the opposite team's best DB, so there's that. Elite quality? Yes, he's great at beating press, and route running. Peers? I'm pretty sure multiple DBs said SJ was one of the most difficult to cover. Points? This isn't fully on him... remember his QBs Is he the best WR in the game? Nope. Does he have faults? Yup. Does he have great/elite qualities? Yes. He's probably a top 15-20 WR in the game, and there's nothing wrong with that. Stevie is a unique and enigmatic WR. He's NOT a great route runner, or he would still be here. The thing that makes him difficult for DBs to cover is the same thing that gives a precision passing game fits. He uses a lot of "herky-jerk" and stutter steps to evade DBs, and has great balance so he can make it seem he's going one way while he goes the other. If the QB has time to stare him down he'll generally get open -- but that's not how the Bills want to run their passing attack, and it's not good for a young QB who's being told to rely upon timing. And then there's the perennial groin/hammy issue. I don't believe Stevie is "elite" at anything in particular; he certainly doesn't have great hands. He was a "good" WR for the Bills during one of their worst overall periods in franchise history. My thread is not a "bash Stevie" invitation, but merely a commentary on how the WRs here now fit the profile of what Hackett wants to accomplish, and to me that's exciting. I am extremely curious to see how Stevie fares in San Fran, with another young QB and a coach like Harbaugh. I have no predictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I was just reading a "Camp Preview" about the Bills and it mentioned how there was an outside chance that Mike Williams doesn't even make the roster and that got me thinking. What if Williams ends up being a headcase like how he was in Syracuse and Tampa and the Bills decide they don't want to put up with it and cut him. Would you guys miss Stevie then? I know I would. Not to mention the success Stevie has had in the past vs Revis. I hope it works out with Williams but if it doesn't then I'm going to be really upset that we lost Stevie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 I was just reading a "Camp Preview" about the Bills and it mentioned how there was an outside chance that Mike Williams doesn't even make the roster and that got me thinking. What if Williams ends up being a headcase like how he was in Syracuse and Tampa and the Bills decide they don't want to put up with it and cut him. Would you guys miss Stevie then? I know I would. Not to mention the success Stevie has had in the past vs Revis. I hope it works out with Williams but if it doesn't then I'm going to be really upset that we lost Stevie Who wrote the camp preview? Please provide a link; I want to read this for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Who wrote the camp preview? Please provide a link; I want to read this for myself. NFL.com Gregg Rosenthall's AFC East Camp Preview: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000365696/article/afc-east-training-camp-preview-3-things-to-watch watch that video in there too. "Lights Out" gives us some props as being a possible contender for the AFC East Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoodooOperator Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Most of the time, "enigmatic"=diva. Divas rarely produce consistently, with the exception of guys like T.O. and Chad Johnson. The last thing we need on a young, developing team are any divas. Good luck in San Fran, Stevie. You'll likely need it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 NFL.com Gregg Rosenthall's AFC East Camp Preview: http://www.nfl.com/n...things-to-watch watch that video in there too. "Lights Out" gives us some props as being a possible contender for the AFC East Hilarious. Rosenthall's justification is Rodak's characterization of Williams as a "failure" during OTAs, before it was acknowledged the Bills brought him along slowly because he was recovering from injury. The quality of national reporting on these teams is really laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I miss Stevie. I came to grips with the fact he was definitely not a true #1 receiver and was really the best we had out of a poor bunch, but he's still a viable weapon and is most likely a #2 on most teams. I love his personality and I love how he embraced the city of Buffalo. I wish him the best, but I'm happy with who we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Stevie is a unique and enigmatic WR. He's NOT a great route runner, or he would still be here. The thing that makes him difficult for DBs to cover is the same thing that gives a precision passing game fits. He uses a lot of "herky-jerk" and stutter steps to evade DBs, and has great balance so he can make it seem he's going one way while he goes the other. If the QB has time to stare him down he'll generally get open -- but that's not how the Bills want to run their passing attack, and it's not good for a young QB who's being told to rely upon timing. And then there's the perennial groin/hammy issue. I don't believe Stevie is "elite" at anything in particular; he certainly doesn't have great hands. He was a "good" WR for the Bills during one of their worst overall periods in franchise history. My thread is not a "bash Stevie" invitation, but merely a commentary on how the WRs here now fit the profile of what Hackett wants to accomplish, and to me that's exciting. I am extremely curious to see how Stevie fares in San Fran, with another young QB and a coach like Harbaugh. I have no predictions. I've generally thought that routes are about getting to a certain location at a certain time, running along a certain path. Stevie hasn't had an issue doing that, he throws out jukes, which a lot WRs do, just his are a bit more basketball like (lower body) whereas most WRs just use their shoulders. I guess we'll agree to disagree. I think he's a fantastic route runner, and has great moves to beat press coverage. Never claimed he's elite all around. I do think he's good, all around, though. Even with his mental lapses. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You herd it hear last Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 just saw that espn fantasy 'experts' have SJ listed as 52nd best wideout. mentions past injuries, potential for less targets in SF http://games.espn.go.com/ffl/tools/projections?display=alt&slotCategoryId=4&startIndex=45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 just saw that espn fantasy 'experts' have SJ listed as 52nd best wideout. mentions past injuries, potential for less targets in SF http://games.espn.go...4&startIndex=45 For some weird perspective on that site, they have Brady at #12, Tannehill at #22, Manuel at #25, Vick at #27, and Geno at #29. I think that fantasy rankings are more a valuation of production rather than talent. Of course, the two go hand in hand, and there is a lot of analysis that goes into them. I would certainly put a lot more stock in the intellectual muscle that goes into fantasy football rankings than I would something like Ron "Jaws" Jaworski's list of quarterbacks (to cite another thread). They have Watkins at #30 among WRs-- not surprisingly, the highest ranked rookie WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I was just reading a "Camp Preview" about the Bills and it mentioned how there was an outside chance that Mike Williams doesn't even make the roster and that got me thinking. What if Williams ends up being a headcase like how he was in Syracuse and Tampa and the Bills decide they don't want to put up with it and cut him. Would you guys miss Stevie then? I know I would. Not to mention the success Stevie has had in the past vs Revis. I hope it works out with Williams but if it doesn't then I'm going to be really upset that we lost Stevie This is my fear. I am sure Williams will make the team, but if he does turn out to be a headcase, or his production isn't there and we decide not to go with him next year, I feel like our WR core will be a little light especially when injuries come into play. Granted our receiver core could turn out to be superstars, I believe they could, but i wish we would have waited a bit before ditching him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 This is my fear. I am sure Williams will make the team, but if he does turn out to be a headcase, or his production isn't there and we decide not to go with him next year, I feel like our WR core will be a little light especially when injuries come into play. There will be another draft and a FA signing period after that, so I'm not worried. Robert Woods was a 2nd rounder. We'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 just saw that espn fantasy 'experts' have SJ listed as 52nd best wideout. mentions past injuries, potential for less targets in SF http://games.espn.go.com/ffl/tools/projections?display=alt&slotCategoryId=4&startIndex=45 That's pretty meaningless in this discussion. Of course his numbers will drop. But one of the best coaches in the NFL thinks enough of him to invest possible a 3rd round pick. In terms of real football, a non Bills fans ranked Wrs. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000365690/article/preseason-wide-receiver-rankings?campaign=Ext_Email_1st10_20140717&cvosrc=Ext_Email.Epsilon.1st10_20140717. He seems to think a lot more of SJ than jilted Bills fans. My bottom line is I'd rather have SJ than Mike Williams and I think it hurts the team. I guess we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Stevie is a unique and enigmatic WR. He's NOT a great route runner, or he would still be here. The thing that makes him difficult for DBs to cover is the same thing that gives a precision passing game fits. He uses a lot of "herky-jerk" and stutter steps to evade DBs, and has great balance so he can make it seem he's going one way while he goes the other. If the QB has time to stare him down he'll generally get open -- but that's not how the Bills want to run their passing attack, and it's not good for a young QB who's being told to rely upon timing. And then there's the perennial groin/hammy issue. I don't believe Stevie is "elite" at anything in particular; he certainly doesn't have great hands. He was a "good" WR for the Bills during one of their worst overall periods in franchise history. My thread is not a "bash Stevie" invitation, but merely a commentary on how the WRs here now fit the profile of what Hackett wants to accomplish, and to me that's exciting. I am extremely curious to see how Stevie fares in San Fran, with another young QB and a coach like Harbaugh. I have no predictions. I feel the same way about this.....the fact that Robert Wood is EJ's main target right now is not just because they came in together as rookies Robert Woods is WHERE HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE on routes......that was the write up on him when he came in....he ran the best routes of any receiver in that draft........I began to wonder if EJ taking the safe route a lot had anything to do with staring down he number one guys (Johnson) not feeling confident throwing him the ball....then checking down We will see this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I feel the same way about this.....the fact that Robert Wood is EJ's main target right now is not just because they came in together as rookies Robert Woods is WHERE HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE on routes......that was the write up on him when he came in....he ran the best routes of any receiver in that draft........I began to wonder if EJ taking the safe route a lot had anything to do with staring down he number one guys (Johnson) not feeling confident throwing him the ball....then checking down We will see this year Stevie out outproduced Woods in less games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Stevie out outproduced Woods in less games. Could that have anything to do with Stevie being the number 1 and he is supposed to get him the ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Could that have anything to do with Stevie being the number 1 and he is supposed to get him the ball? I don't remember when Woods got injured but in the 3 games he started that Stevie was not playing, he caught 6 catches for 106 yards total. That isn't to say that Woods is bad or incapable of outproducing Stevie, it is saying maybe we should have waited before ditiching our best receiver for very young players, and Mike Williams Edited July 17, 2014 by What a Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I don't remember when Woods got injured but in the 3 games he started that Stevie was not playing, he caught 6 catches for 106 yards total. That isn't to say that Woods is bad or incapable of outproducing Stevie, it is saying maybe we should have waited before ditiching our best receiver for very young players, and Mike Williams I personally have no problem doing this when the player your ditching him for is Sammy Watkins...... I know that people are nervous now that training camp is about to start.....but I look at the weapons on this offense and just chompin at the bit.....so much talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I personally have no problem doing this when the player your ditching him for is Sammy Watkins...... I know that people are nervous now that training camp is about to start.....but I look at the weapons on this offense and just chompin at the bit.....so much talent Don't get me wrong I am too! It's going to be a great season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Could that have anything to do with Stevie being the number 1 and he is supposed to get him the ball? I'm just stating facts. I love Woods' potential. I'm just sick of some fans putting down a solid player. I loved our offseason. The only move I truly hated was getting rid of Stevie. And I think we are underestimating having a "leader" like Mike Williams as your most veteran wr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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