No QB

[Kellyto83TD]

Before this thread gets moved or closed, NO you do NOT give EJ competition. Man you guys after all these years should understand. A rookie QB needs time. He needs about 30 or so games to make an accurate determination on him. I have harped on this subject for years. You pick a guy you insert him and let him play, good or bad and be done with it.

 

NO there is no competition at QB on teams that WIN. They bring in a guy, put him in and be done with it.

[MDH]

And yet "Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it" ring a bell,Ad lib Ad infinitum Ad nauseam Alma mater Annuit coeptis Arma togae cedant Arma... ad nauseum

 

Have you not learned from the history of threads exactly like yours where this is going?

[first_and_ten]

Have you not learned from the history of threads exactly like yours where this is going?

 

You can never have too many threads on one topic. Competition breeds winning. I say, bring in more threads to compete. This way if one of the threads gets injured, there will be one to take it's place and the topic won't miss a beat.

[HamSandwhich]

You can never have too many threads on one topic. Competition breeds winning. I say, bring in more threads to compete. This way if one of the threads gets injured, there will be one to take it's place and the topic won't miss a beat.

 

Yeah, I agree. There are a lot of places people can slip and tear something, walking onto the practice field. Better to have too many than too little...

[The Wiz]

Before this thread gets moved or closed, NO you do NOT give EJ competition. Man you guys after all these years should understand. A rookie QB needs time. He needs about 30 or so games to make an accurate determination on him. I have harped on this subject for years. You pick a guy you insert him and let him play, good or bad and be done with it.

 

NO there is no competition at QB on teams that WIN. They bring in a guy, put him in and be done with it.

I'll add to that point. Losman had 2 1/2 years in their system(mostly as the starter) until they drafted Edwards.

[Ronin]

After listening to Whaley at the post draft Presser, when asked if there were any plans to bring in another "jhand" at QB, there was no hestitation at all in his response, no! Not mayber or we will see, just an emphatic no. Followed by some half hearted rationale, "..if we brought anybody else in they would have to learn the system", we are confident in Lewis, Tuel was an undrafted rookie, Dennis Dixon has been around the block.. all of which makes you wonder why competition is best suited for any position but QB? And if they the braintrust (Whaley and Brandon etc. ) are really sincere about building the very best team bar none. If so why skirt the issue of having a solid backup QB . There has to be something beyond the surface, there can be no other reason. are they so afraid that a Kolb liek clone will slip in the shower or some other bizarre reason?atttempted. It is off limits to discussin, thatpart was made "perfectly clear" thank you mr. Presdient. There is no reasonable offered and obviously we can't expect any to come forth, we were told to "just forget about it", so says the Bills Mafia. It is amazing in this day and age wtih social media and all that those who cover the team for a living are so cowed or simply afraid to push the point that we all except that Whaley knows best. Does he really?

 

Does he really?

 

He's been here for five drafts now, originally brought on as a "top personnel guy," ... what do you think?

 

Everyone that supports him cites Nix, but the reality of it is that at worst, as Asst. GM, Whaley's been Nix's right hand man if he hasn't spearheaded the program altogether.

 

Manuel was his choice. Many of us, including just about everyone else that isn't a Bills fan, thought that we reached and that Manuel wasn't nearly as good as Whaley clearly thought last year.

 

He's all-in on Manuel. Watkins isn't even relevant unless Manuel starts doing things he's never done at FSU or last year. Again, what are the odds of that happening now, all of a sudden?

 

Look at what FSU's top three receivers did with Manuel as a Sr. contrasted with Winston as a freshman, same receivers;

 

Manuel (Sr): 1,797 and 12 TDs

Winston (Fr): 3,072 and 30 TDs

 

Granted, Winston's a phenom, but still, that's a huge leap and FSU has had talent far and away exceeding that of their competitors both of those last two seasons. Manuel's production at FSU was hardly impressive considering that. He's brought the same seemingly uncorrectable issues from college to the NFL.

 

I think that it's pretty clear that Whaley really doesn't know what he's doing, but for the skeptics that'll clear up this season. With this draft, he's thrown the mid-term future under the bus to attempt to make himself look good, but it's not for the reasons that everyone's talking about, namely "winning now" and making the playoffs this year.

 

This pick, make no mistake, was entirely to justify last year's pick of Manuel, which Whaley is all-in on. He took such ridiculous heat last year for that pick, Manuel did not ante up, and Whaley is on the cusp of having his pants down around his ankles if Manuel doesn't "take that next step" this year, which I view as several steps.

 

To his credit he's stood by the pick instead of backtracking. But you simply can't reach for a QB like Manuel, then do what he did this year, which if it then fails, expect to continue to have a job. At that point you're just a gambler without brains.

[K-9]

After listening to Whaley at the post draft Presser, when asked if there were any plans to bring in another "jhand" at QB, there was no hestitation at all in his response, no! Not mayber or we will see, just an emphatic no. Followed by some half hearted rationale, "..if we brought anybody else in they would have to learn the system", we are confident in Lewis, Tuel was an undrafted rookie, Dennis Dixon has been around the block.. all of which makes you wonder why competition is best suited for any position but QB? And if they the braintrust (Whaley and Brandon etc. ) are really sincere about building the very best team bar none. If so why skirt the issue of having a solid backup QB . There has to be something beyond the surface, there can be no other reason. are they so afraid that a Kolb liek clone will slip in the shower or some other bizarre reason?atttempted. It is off limits to discussin, thatpart was made "perfectly clear" thank you mr. Presdient. There is no reasonable offered and obviously we can't expect any to come forth, we were told to "just forget about it", so says the Bills Mafia. It is amazing in this day and age wtih social media and all that those who cover the team for a living are so cowed or simply afraid to push the point that we all except that Whaley knows best. Does he really?

 

Nah, I'm sure you know better than Whaley.

 

Seriously, the question has been asked and answered ad infinitum. That it wasn't answered to your satisfaction is of no consequence to Whaley or the media that cover him. When you beat a dead horse as a member of the media it can effect your relationships.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Ronin]

I'll add to that point. Losman had 2 1/2 years in their system(mostly as the starter) until they drafted Edwards.

 

You guys will have to define what should happen during that time. 3 years is fine to wait for a polished playoff-capable QB, but it's far from unreasonable to see progress. There was no progress with Manuel last year. In fact, two of his best games were early on. His production was lumpy, he never put a solid 4-quarter, or even 3-quarter effort together, his throws were consistently all over the map.

 

There has to be visible progress from which one can project based upon trends. There was no such progress last year for Manuel and he'll have to show that by midseason this year or the wheels will come off the wagon.

 

I think that this "win now" nonsense is silly. ****, I'd be happy with a .500 season and competitive ball and a 1st-rounder next year.

 

Either way, it's pretty obvious to anyone that's looking, Manuel was Whaley's "had to have him" pick, now he's either going to sink or swim with Manuel, and the early returns aren't good. Unless he does what no rookie WR has ever done, Watkins is not going to be a factor this year. It's all going to come down to Manuel. All of it.

Edited May 12, 2014 by TaskersGhost

[26CornerBlitz]

You guys will have to define what should happen during that time. 3 years is fine to wait for a polished playoff-capable QB, but it's far from unreasonable to see progress. There was no progress with Manuel last year. In fact, two of his best games were early on. His production was lumpy, he never put a solid 4-quarter, or even 3-quarter effort together, his throws were consistently all over the map.

 

There has to be visible progress from which one can project based upon trends. There was no such progress last year for Manuel and he'll have to show that by midseason this year or the wheels will come off the wagon.

 

I think that this "win now" nonsense is silly. ****, I'd be happy with a .500 season and competitive ball and a 1st-rounder next year.

 

Either way, it's pretty obvious to anyone that's looking, Manuel was Whaley's "had to have him" pick, now he's either going to sink or swim with Manuel, and the early returns aren't good. Unless he does what no rookie WR has ever done, Watkins is not going to be a factor this year. It's all going to come down to Manuel. All of it.

 

You mean to tell me that an NFL rookie QB had an up and down season??? Shocking!!!

 

You're ignoring/tailoring the facts to suit your premise: http://www.nfl.com/p...539228/gamelogs

 

But carry on.

[xsoldier54]

Does he really?

 

He's been here for five drafts now, originally brought on as a "top personnel guy," ... what do you think?

 

Everyone that supports him cites Nix, but the reality of it is that at worst, as Asst. GM, Whaley's been Nix's right hand man if he hasn't spearheaded the program altogether.

 

Manuel was his choice. Many of us, including just about everyone else that isn't a Bills fan, thought that we reached and that Manuel wasn't nearly as good as Whaley clearly thought last year.

 

He's all-in on Manuel. Watkins isn't even relevant unless Manuel starts doing things he's never done at FSU or last year. Again, what are the odds of that happening now, all of a sudden?

 

Look at what FSU's top three receivers did with Manuel as a Sr. contrasted with Winston as a freshman, same receivers;

 

Manuel (Sr): 1,797 and 12 TDs

Winston (Fr): 3,072 and 30 TDs

 

Granted, Winston's a phenom, but still, that's a huge leap and FSU has had talent far and away exceeding that of their competitors both of those last two seasons. Manuel's production at FSU was hardly impressive considering that. He's brought the same seemingly uncorrectable issues from college to the NFL.

 

I think that it's pretty clear that Whaley really doesn't know what he's doing, but for the skeptics that'll clear up this season. With this draft, he's thrown the mid-term future under the bus to attempt to make himself look good, but it's not for the reasons that everyone's talking about, namely "winning now" and making the playoffs this year.

 

This pick, make no mistake, was entirely to justify last year's pick of Manuel, which Whaley is all-in on. He took such ridiculous heat last year for that pick, Manuel did not ante up, and Whaley is on the cusp of having his pants down around his ankles if Manuel doesn't "take that next step" this year, which I view as several steps.

 

To his credit he's stood by the pick instead of backtracking. But you simply can't reach for a QB like Manuel, then do what he did this year, which if it then fails, expect to continue to have a job. At that point you're just a gambler without brains.

Sorry, but I think Whaley has plenty of brains. They already have four QB's on the roster. Whaley likes the guys he's got and didn't see anybody out there that he thought was better able to compete. He did a great job in the draft and before the draft. They have upgraded at WR, OL, LB, special teams and DB. The roster is more solid and deep than it has been in years. I trust his judgement and the proof will be in the pudding.

[Hplarrm]

Given a choice between focusing on building a great team and finding a good QB who is essential to taking them over the top OR instead focusing on finding a great QB to make his team great, I think past events in the NFL show success comes from building the team first.

 

I think a big part of the Buffalo problem has been in too much focus on trying to find the next once in a lifetime Jim Kelly and not enough on overall team building.

 

This appears to have changed with the new regime. On O, they have built one of the best acheiving running attacks even with inconsistent OL play. The draft saw us get at least 1 and probably 2 immediate OL contributors AND we took a flyer on a top flight physical talent with a discipline problem.

 

Even better we pulled off a deal which gives us a good plan C at RB.

 

Likewise on D, this team has achieved real production in sacks to build on and seems on paper to have id'ed specific players to improve the run stopping game.

 

I nam comfortable with Manual maybe being good enough to lead this team, and if not then we go FA

[GG]

Given a choice between focusing on building a great team and finding a good QB who is essential to taking them over the top OR instead focusing on finding a great QB to make his team great, I think past events in the NFL show success comes from building the team first.

 

I think a big part of the Buffalo problem has been in too much focus on trying to find the next once in a lifetime Jim Kelly and not enough on overall team building.

 

This appears to have changed with the new regime.

 

...

 

 

Not quite. The main reason Buddy's tenure will be deemed a failure is that he neglected the QB position to build the team, and in the process passed up on some guys who may turn into franchise QBs. EJ is Whaley's franchise QB, and now he's building the team around him. If it needs repeating, it will - Whaley's reputation will go only as far as EJ allows it to go. If EJ doesn't progress this year, Bills are basically stuck until 2016, and I can't see the new owner being happy with that.

Edited May 12, 2014 by GG

[HT02]

Does he really?

 

He's been here for five drafts now, originally brought on as a "top personnel guy," ... what do you think?

 

Everyone that supports him cites Nix, but the reality of it is that at worst, as Asst. GM, Whaley's been Nix's right hand man if he hasn't spearheaded the program altogether.

 

Manuel was his choice. Many of us, including just about everyone else that isn't a Bills fan, thought that we reached and that Manuel wasn't nearly as good as Whaley clearly thought last year.

 

He's all-in on Manuel. Watkins isn't even relevant unless Manuel starts doing things he's never done at FSU or last year. Again, what are the odds of that happening now, all of a sudden?

 

Look at what FSU's top three receivers did with Manuel as a Sr. contrasted with Winston as a freshman, same receivers;

 

Manuel (Sr): 1,797 and 12 TDs

Winston (Fr): 3,072 and 30 TDs

 

Granted, Winston's a phenom, but still, that's a huge leap and FSU has had talent far and away exceeding that of their competitors both of those last two seasons. Manuel's production at FSU was hardly impressive considering that. He's brought the same seemingly uncorrectable issues from college to the NFL.

 

I think that it's pretty clear that Whaley really doesn't know what he's doing, but for the skeptics that'll clear up this season. With this draft, he's thrown the mid-term future under the bus to attempt to make himself look good, but it's not for the reasons that everyone's talking about, namely "winning now" and making the playoffs this year.

 

This pick, make no mistake, was entirely to justify last year's pick of Manuel, which Whaley is all-in on. He took such ridiculous heat last year for that pick, Manuel did not ante up, and Whaley is on the cusp of having his pants down around his ankles if Manuel doesn't "take that next step" this year, which I view as several steps.

 

To his credit he's stood by the pick instead of backtracking. But you simply can't reach for a QB like Manuel, then do what he did this year, which if it then fails, expect to continue to have a job. At that point you're just a gambler without brains.

 

I couldn't agree with you any more!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

All threads on this topic boil down to three groups, who will never agree until reality presents us a conclusive verdict by virtue of probowls and playoff wins or EJ dropping out of the league with a lack of success. The only thing left to do is wait and see who is right...

 

These are my take on the groups...

 

Group 1- EJ obviously sucks. Everyone saw the Tampa game, everyone saw the bucs. He is horrible. And can't help throwing his knees into oncoming traffic. He sucked at Florida based on Winston being good, sucked as a rookie by the way Thad and Tuel suck too. And Whaley sucks because he is dumb enough to think they don't suck. They all suck and nothing will ever change, the new owner is too cheap to buy a real QB. Rant, rant, rant....

 

Group 2: EJ is good. He made throws that we haven't seen from a bills QB since 1998. He was a rookie at the hardest spot, has a cannon arm, worked his tail off on his footwork, has much better WRs finally, unlike last year and this year he is going to flat out ball... If you look at all time rookie QBR, he in the top dozen or so...

 

Group 3- why on gods green earth would any chat board arm chair quarterback think they know more than the nfl institution. Everyone knows rookies struggle and you can't tell anything until a few seasons are under their belt. At QB this is amplified... Peyton sucked as a rookie, Eli sucked as a rookie, Drew Brees and Brady didn't even get a good seat on the bench. We just don't freaking know. They surrounded they guy with talent, added a QB coach, added 3/4 a ton of humanity in the offseason to stand between him and the guys trying to kill him. It's his year to start stepping up or start stepping out... The coaching staff probably feels they can get a back up game manager type out of the other 3 guys.

 

That's the whole story. All arguments fit into 1 of these... I am going to go with 3 and hope for 2.

Edited May 12, 2014 by over 20 years of fanhood

[CodeMonkey]

I'm not surprised or disappointed. They obviously think that Manuel will turn it around this season, or at the very least like him more than any QB they could get in this draft.

I will probably make it to camp a couple times this year. But camp is basically no pressure so I would expect Manuel to look fine. The bad mechanics/footwork, if it is still there, won't come out until he is under pressure so we really won't know anything until the season actually starts.

 

Stay tuned Bills fans.

[YoloinOhio]

And we have another QB.... Jeff Tuel, we'll always have #99yardpick6

 

Eleven Warriors ‏@11W 11m

Per @David10TV: Smooth jazz is coming to Buffalo; Kenny Guiton is off to the Bills' camp. http://11w.rs/1slKQAs

 

Edited May 12, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[filthymcnasty08]

You can never have too many threads on one topic. Competition breeds winning. I say, bring in more threads to compete. This way if one of the threads gets injured, there will be one to take it's place and the topic won't miss a beat.

 

[John from Riverside]

Lets keep in mind that it is gonna be extremely difficult to get a late round QB the reps he would need to

 

a. Showed he belonged

 

b. Groom him

 

I was much happier with the selections they took....which were quality players at a position of need

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

What are the chances a QB that couldn't start in college over a younger guy who by the way wasn't projected as more than a late round prospect if he passed on his sr year will do anything at the nfl level? Is it possible?

Edited May 12, 2014 by over 20 years of fanhood

[YoloinOhio]

What are the chances a QB that couldn't start in college over a younger guy who by the way wasn't projected as more than a late round prospect if he passed on his sr year will do anything at the nfl level? Is it possible?

Because success as a QB in college, especially when the QB is a 5 star recruit, is different than the NFL, when the best athlete on the team is not usually the QB. OSU runs a spread offense. Braxton Miller is unbelievable at it. Miller is not as good of a pure passer or even as good of an all-around QB as Guiton, IMO, but he is an absolute game-changer with his feet. No way Urban would take him off the field (although it got close a couple times). Defenses had to game plan around his running ability. Guiton is mobile, but not like that. The Buckeyes ran a college offense. Guiton is more of a traditional QB. Edited May 12, 2014 by YoloinOhio