Ultimate Smokescreen - Manziel

[MarlinTheMagician]

Not advocating this, but just for fun: It would take some stones for the Bills to take Manziel. I have no idea if he will ever be good in the NFL, but he has the gunslingenest attitude we have seen in these parts since Jim Kelly. I suspect we could trade him during the draft (Cowboys?) or subsequently for greater value than what we would pay. Or don't trade him at all -- let him and EJ duke it out. If EJ (who I am really, really rooting for) can't hold Manziel off, then it was perhaps the right move to draft Manziel. It is a quarterback league and we need to have the best option possible. I don't think they will do it, but if they did the Bills would have pulled off the ultimate smokescreen after all of the "we are all in on EJ and committed to giving him weapons" talk. And this board would EXPLODE (making the Mario thread look like a short story compared to a novel).

[MarlinTheMagician]

What made me think of it -- Gil Brandt thinks he is the best player in the draft or something like that. He is really high on Johnny Football.

[Max997]

You have a better chance of being drafted by the Bills then Manzeil does

[MarlinTheMagician]

You obviously are not familiar with my 40 time!

[26CornerBlitz]

Is it Thursday yet???

[MarlinTheMagician]

I know what you mean. Desperate times when I start a Manziel thread. Ugh! Let's get it on!

[chris heff]

Is it Thursday yet???

Thursday can't get here soon enough. Woke up in a cold sweat because I had a dream that the Bills traded Kiko and the ninth to Cleveland. Had to get up and check this site to make sure it was a dream.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Thursday can't get here soon enough. Woke up in a cold sweat because I had a dream that the Bills traded Kiko and the ninth to Cleveland. Had to get up and check this site to make sure it was a dream.

That wasn`t a dream ...It was a nightmare

[Donald Duck]

That wasn`t a dream ...It was a nightmare

 

yes it was...

[MarlinTheMagician]

Been watching some Bortles vids. Dude kind of reminds me of Kelly.

[Zona]

Every time I watch Manziel play, I think of Jake Plummer. I think Johnny football will be better than Plummer ever was. Whomever drafts him will get a player. I believe JM will succeed and have a great career. But i thought Losman would too, when we drafted him, and that didn't turn out so well...So take it with a grain of salt.

[cwchze]

Every time I watch Manziel play, I think of Jake Plummer. I think Johnny football will be better than Plummer ever was. Whomever drafts him will get a player. I believe JM will succeed and have a great career. But i thought Losman would too, when we drafted him, and that didn't turn out so well...So take it with a grain of salt.

I remember first interview I saw of Losman... I said oh boy this guy is our franchise quaterback...sad to say I was right..

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Not advocating this, but just for fun: It would take some stones for the Bills to take Manziel. I have no idea if he will ever be good in the NFL, but he has the gunslingenest attitude we have seen in these parts since Jim Kelly. I suspect we could trade him during the draft (Cowboys?) or subsequently for greater value than what we would pay. Or don't trade him at all -- let him and EJ duke it out. If EJ (who I am really, really rooting for) can't hold Manziel off, then it was perhaps the right move to draft Manziel. It is a quarterback league and we need to have the best option possible. I don't think they will do it, but if they did the Bills would have pulled off the ultimate smokescreen after all of the "we are all in on EJ and committed to giving him weapons" talk. And this board would EXPLODE (making the Mario thread look like a short story compared to a novel).

 

we can only hope

[filthymcnasty08]

Every time I watch Manziel play, I think of Jake Plummer. I think Johnny football will be better than Plummer ever was. Whomever drafts him will get a player. I believe JM will succeed and have a great career. But i thought Losman would too, when we drafted him, and that didn't turn out so well...So take it with a grain of salt.

 

Only one Johnny F. Football....I like the Favre/Steve Young comparisons best.

 

No way he's a Bill but damn is he going to be fun to watch. The thing that I believe sets him apart from other College phenom/pro flops is that he improved in his supposed weak areas from year to year - showing that he's not just a wild runner that chucks it. The right QB coach/OC will not try to box him into a set system but will create one around hiim that will allow him to do his thing and learn/excel as a pro. This kid has the arm, the mindset, natural leadership skills and speed. No doubt he will have a 3 INT afternoon or several on his way there but I just cannot see this kid failing.

 

I do not think he gets to #9....lots of fun n games going on with GMs and the press.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Been watching some Bortles vids. Dude kind of reminds me of Kelly.

 

Bortles is definitely clutch

[PromoTheRobot]

You all realize that crapstorm that would ensue if the Bills drafted Manziel, right? They might as well cut EJ because he will have no reason to ever trust the Bills again. Of course you have to start Manziel because you drafted him #1. Better hope Johhny Football doesn't turn out to be Johnny Bust.

[YoloinOhio]

 

Kevin Massare @KevinMassare · 4h

Also from my source inside the team. The Bills would certainly draft a QB from 41 on if the right one is on the board.

[filthymcnasty08]

 

 

Kevin Massare @KevinMassare · 4h

Also from my source inside the team. The Bills would certainly draft a QB from 41 on if the right one is on the board.

 

I like this.

[mrags]

 

Kevin Massare @KevinMassare · 4h

Also from my source inside the team. The Bills would certainly draft a QB from 41 on if the right one is on the board.

what are we thinking??? Like if Manziel or Bridgewater fall to the second round like Geno did last year that we take one and run with it?

[enlightener]

i think a good strategy is to draft a qb by the mid to late rounds every season, let him be a backup and if has one good game, trade him for someones first round pick the next season, like how we got rob johnson after his one good game debut. He also may end up being good enough to play all season and we could trade him anyway for a first like how we gave up a 1 for bledsoe and I think the cheifs did for Cassel. Its a cheap and quick way to make a low draft pick into a high draft pick and give your team a backup qb to boot. He may even turn into the next Brady or Foles .

Edited May 4, 2014 by enlightener

[maryland-bills-fan]

There is nothing wrong with the Bills talking that they are seriously considering any player that might be loved by another team, in order to try to stampede them into making us a trade that we can't refuse. Notice that the Bills have brought in three cornerbacks who are predicted by some boards to be taken right around our first three picks. I think that is to encourage some team to trade us some extra valuable pick in order for them to move up a couple of slots to take our pick We move down a few spots, still draft the guy we really wanted, but get some extra rolls of the dice in a deep draft to improve the team. Its a bluffing poker game.

[All_Pro_Bills]

Manziel carries a lot of risk because its not clear his game will translate to the NFL level. I suspect somebody will 'reach' for him at some point in the first round but I pray its not the Bills. I think that would be a wasted pick. I'd prefer to see Evans or Ebron (I don't think Mathews is going to be the at 9) in the 1st, an OT Moses or Kouandjio in the 2nd, and if your thinking of a QB prospect Mettenberger in the 3rd would be interesting if he's there.

Edited May 4, 2014 by All_Pro_Bills

[Prickly Pete]

i think a good strategy is to draft a qb by the mid to late rounds every season, let him be a backup and if has one good game, trade him for someones first round pick the next season, like how we got rob johnson after his one good game debut. He also may end up being good enough to play all season and we could trade him anyway for a first like how we gave up a 1 for bledsoe and I think the cheifs did for Cassel. Its a cheap and quick way to make a low draft pick into a high draft pick and give your team a backup qb to boot. He may even turn into the next Brady or Foles .

 

Yeah, I don't understand why developing QB's isn't a higher priority EVERY season. You need to have your main guy, but beyond having a good backup, a 2nd QB is also a valuable commodity. I don't believe that the Bills protecting EJM's ego would dissuade they from selecting another QB. I think it would be that they are prioritizing other positions.

[FireChan]

You all realize that crapstorm that would ensue if the Bills drafted Manziel, right? They might as well cut EJ because he will have no reason to ever trust the Bills again. Of course you have to start Manziel because you drafted him #1. Better hope Johhny Football doesn't turn out to be Johnny Bust.

 

Trust the Bills? Huh? Manuel got hurt a bunch and wasn't great when he was healthy, what can he expect? The FO isn't his girlfriend.

 

 

[chris heff]

That wasn`t a dream ...It was a nightmare

I know, hence the cold sweat.

[Big Hurt]

I predict Manziel will not only be drafted in the first round, but he will go in the top 5. If, for whatever reason Manziel falls to the Bills pick at #9, they should not think twice but to pick him up right the way! This is a gamble that is well worth the risk, Players like him comes every 10-15 years. You can pick up good lineman, receivers, linebackers from practically every draft. But good QB is rare. If Manziel turns out to be a bust, the cost is one fiirst round pick. But it he pans out, we will be set for the next ten years. You have plenty of chance to pick up players for other positions. After saying that, I think there are plenty of teams that would love to pick him in the first round. But the GMs are downplay how good he is to try to make teams like the Bills think they can stay put at their own spot and still has a chance to grab him. He won't drop pass #5, and quite possibly that Houston may take him at #1.

[maryland-bills-fan]

I hope somebody really really thinks that.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I predict Manziel will not only be drafted in the first round, but he will go in the top 5. If, for whatever reason Manziel falls to the Bills pick at #9, they should not think twice but to pick him up right the way! This is a gamble that is well worth the risk, Players like him comes every 10-15 years. You can pick up good lineman, receivers, linebackers from practically every draft. But good QB is rare. If Manziel turns out to be a bust, the cost is one fiirst round pick. But it he pans out, we will be set for the next ten years. You have plenty of chance to pick up players for other positions. After saying that, I think there are plenty of teams that would love to pick him in the first round. But the GMs are downplay how good he is to try to make teams like the Bills think they can stay put at their own spot and still has a chance to grab him. He won't drop pass #5, and quite possibly that Houston may take him at #1.

 

True.

 

(this isn't directed to you)

 

I love how they say they want the BPA, but what if it is a QB? Then they wont draft him and will say some BS how EJ is our guy and we need to help him out, but any other position that we already have talent at like RB we take that player no problem (Henry- McGahee- Lynch- Spiller)

[PromoTheRobot]

 

 

Trust the Bills? Huh? Manuel got hurt a bunch and wasn't great when he was healthy, what can he expect? The FO isn't his girlfriend.

Except that Whaley said EJ is his guy. For him to draft a QB first round would infer otherwise.

[bowery4]

Mr. Football would be a mistake IMHO, sort of a Doug Flutie 2.0. I like the kid too ( I mean watching his high lights is really fun ) but have serious doubt he will have the kind of impact in the pro game that he has had in the college game. Even if he is successful I would think he won't be as much so in playoff football. Now if they do somehow draft him I say good. I don't think having competition for EJ is a bad thing but having 2 first round QBs on the roster is pretty much ( I also don't think he will last until round 2 and personally if I was GM and set on drafting him, I would want to move back a few slots (as insurance of having a good draft even if he busts), I also don't see that happening) unheard of. Lastly if they don't trade EJ after drafting him..... NYJests clown show to follow, not that would be a bad thing if they were winning.

Edited May 5, 2014 by bowery4

[Luxy312]

True.

 

(this isn't directed to you)

 

I love how they say they want the BPA, but what if it is a QB? Then they wont draft him and will say some BS how EJ is our guy and we need to help him out, but any other position that we already have talent at like RB we take that player no problem (Henry- McGahee- Lynch- Spiller)

 

There is simply no team in the NFL that drafts BPA. In fact, there's no metric that I'm aware of that allows you to even compare positions. I'm sure teams have a means, but I'm guessing that the math is pretty complex. The history of the NFL proves that there is no "can't miss" prospect at any position. What if it's a QB, you ask? They drafted a QB in the first round last year. If you don't think for a second that teams would devalue a position that they think they filled LAST year, then you're clearly not thinking. End of day, BPA = perception = individual.

[FireChan]

Except that Whaley said EJ is his guy. For him to draft a QB first round would infer otherwise.

 

Whaley also said we were gonna trade up, trade down, we love this player etc. Buddy said Glenn would suck as a tackle. It's a business, and sometimes 22 year olds' egos get hurt.

[Buftex]

I have a strong feeling that the Cowboys will do some draft day finagling to be able to pick Manziel. I am getting the strong sense that JJ, along with Cowboys fans, are losing their patience with Romo.

 

As for Manziel, I think where he lands is a major factor in whether he turns into a great NFL QB, or a bust... perhaps, if JJ ever gets over the notion that he is a "football guy" things will work out...but if JJ continues to pull all the strings, and make football decisions, Manziel will likely end up flaming out in Dallas.

[machine gun kelly]

You all realize that crapstorm that would ensue if the Bills drafted Manziel, right? They might as well cut EJ because he will have no reason to ever trust the Bills again. Of course you have to start Manziel because you drafted him #1. Better hope Johhny Football doesn't turn out to be Johnny Bust.

 

Thank you and I say NO. Manzeil does not go through his progressions and plays sandlot football. I believe he will be a bust or at most an avg QB. The defenses are too fast for his type of football to make it. None of these QB's look to become franchise QB's, but if I had to guess Bridgewater will make it at least as a back up.

 

We have to give EJ a real chance for success. He needed this off season to progress, all of the OTA's, camp and a fu

L season hopefully without injury. The turnstile of QB's coaches, FO, has to stop. We have to give Whaley, Marrone, and EJ enough time to build wins. I would hate to waste a first round pick on a QB. There are a number of impact players to get at this spot even if it is an unsexy pick like an elite RT.

 

I have a strong feeling that the Cowboys will do some draft day finagling to be able to pick Manziel. I am getting the strong sense that JJ, along with Cowboys fans, are losing their patience with Romo.

 

As for Manziel, I think where he lands is a major factor in whether he turns into a great NFL QB, or a bust... perhaps, if JJ ever gets over the notion that he is a "football guy" things will work out...but if JJ continues to pull all the strings, and make football decisions, Manziel will likely end up flaming out in Dallas.

 

God I hope JJ pulls the trigger on Manzeil. This means he gives up more picks to get him, has the Cowboys even more devoid of talent, watch the circus ensue between Romo and him, and the team has the reincarnation of the Jets (Tebow/Sanchez mess).

 

I hate the Cowboys as much as the Patriots and would love nothing more than to watch it. The only problem is it will dominate NFL Network, ESPN, and NFL Radio. You wouldn't be able to get away from the 24 hrs a day coverage of this mediocre team.

[CSBill]

Mr. Football would be a mistake IMHO, sort of a Doug Flutie 2.0. I like the kid too ( I mean watching his high lights is really fun ) but have serious doubt he will have the kind of impact in the pro game that he has had in the college game. Even if he is successful I would think he won't be as much so in playoff football. Now if they do somehow draft him I say good. I don't think having competition for EJ is a bad thing but having 2 first round QBs on the roster is pretty much ( I also don't think he will last until round 2 and personally if I was GM and set on drafting him, I would want to move back a few slots (as insurance of having a good draft even if he busts), I also don't see that happening) unheard of. Lastly if they don't trade EJ after drafting him..... NYJests clown show to follow, not that would be a bad thing if they were winning.

 

And all Doug Flutie did was WIN!!! . . . yeah, we certainly don't want that around here.

 

I think we should draft Manziel, and sign Tebow, and we would be the lead story on the four letter network all pre-season.

[bowery4]

And all Doug Flutie did was WIN!!! . . . yeah, we certainly don't want that around here.

 

I think we should draft Manziel, and sign Tebow, and we would be the lead story on the four letter network all pre-season.

Hah, I never said I didn't like Doug Flutie but I don't think he would have been able to win a Superbowl honestly, IMHO it's a shame he wasn't given the chance. That said I don't honestly think those Bills would have won one either but I would have loved to see it.

I do think that in reality Fran Tarkington was the best of these type of players but he never won a SB either. But that would be Manzel's ceiling....hmmm maybe they should sprint to the podium if he is there. lol

[maryland-bills-fan]

I always like to look at the rest of the college team, when thinking about the Bills drafting a player whose position requires co-ordination with or depends upon another position on the team. Punters and kickers you can evaluate on the basis of their success and the environment they kicked in. With a safety or quarterback, the play of the supporting cast is important. A defensive tackle lined up next to a top 10pick defensive end is not going to get a lot of double coverage and will look better.

 

For Manziel, he was on a very good football team. He may have had the best offensive tackles in college and maybe even the pros protecting him. It is easy to run around and evade defenders like magic, if the man pass rushers are neutralized. Let's consider the offensive tackles. In 2013 OT Luke Joeckel was draft #2 overall and RB Michael was drafted in the second round. In 2014 Manziel had Mathews at LOT and he is likely an overall top 5->15 pick. At the other tackle last year he had Ogbuehi (6-5 300) who was not exactly chopped liver and will get a FA look. He also had Evans to throw to. How good would Manziel and would his game be if he was being swamped by defensive linemen?

[FireChan]

I always like to look at the rest of the college team, when thinking about the Bills drafting a player whose position requires co-ordination with or depends upon another position on the team. Punters and kickers you can evaluate on the basis of their success and the environment they kicked in. With a safety or quarterback, the play of the supporting cast is important. A defensive tackle lined up next to a top 10pick defensive end is not going to get a lot of double coverage and will look better.

 

For Manziel, he was on a very good football team. He may have had the best offensive tackles in college and maybe even the pros protecting him. It is easy to run around and evade defenders like magic, if the man pass rushers are neutralized. Let's consider the offensive tackles. In 2013 OT Luke Joeckel was draft #2 overall and RB Michael was drafted in the second round. In 2014 Manziel had Mathews at LOT and he is likely an overall top 5->15 pick. At the other tackle last year he had Ogbuehi (6-5 300) who was not exactly chopped liver and will get a FA look. He also had Evans to throw to. How good would Manziel and would his game be if he was being swamped by defensive linemen?

 

So Matthews and Evans make Manziel look good? But Manziel doesn't make either of them look good?

 

How much do you rush a QB when you're afraid he can scramble and take the ball 20+ yards every time? The answer? Not much. The D-line runs more for containment. That affects the entire O-line before the play is even snapped.

[maryland-bills-fan]

So Matthews and Evans make Manziel look good? But Manziel doesn't make either of them look good?

 

How much do you rush a QB when you're afraid he can scramble and take the ball 20+ yards every time? The answer? Not much. The D-line runs more for containment. That affects the entire O-line before the play is even snapped.

 

Yes, they all make each other look better. That is a reason why I am leary of taking multiple players or additional players from a college team with a good record. If a team has 11 players who average as B- players- but with no glaring holes, all the players will look good- maybe averaging as B+ players. If you take a few of those players, actual individual grad of B+ and put them on a side that averages C-, then they will not look very good. Nobody will hear of them. Some of their best plays might be a running back fighting his way back to the line of scrimmage. There are loads of good NFL players hidden in the college ranks this way. That is why so many draft picks are answered by "who the f is he, I never heard of him" and "Does anybody know where that college is? Mississippi? North Dakota? The pro scouts beat the bushes for the gems and take risks in picking them. Kutztown University of Pennsylvania anybody?

Edited May 5, 2014 by maryland-bills-fan

[thewildrabbit]

Mike Mayock elevated Manziel to his #1QB, and last I've heard he likes Mack over Clowney.

 

I get all the hype over Clowney, really. But c'mon, the kid only had three sacks last year, and seemed to disappear during some games. #1 overall...I can see why the Texans might want to trade back a few spots.

 

Listening to Doug Whaley he states the team has no weak areas and will draft BPA. If that is the case then perhaps the Bills are looking at a QB who can scramble and make plays like Johnny Football.