Tim Graham was on Sirius radio this morning.

[YoloinOhio]

yeah..both sides spinning the story they want the public to hear.

Only 1.5 hrs to go... #freebyrd

[Doc]

Turning down 30 in 3 hurts but I'll say parker advocates getting every dollar now and actually playing out the deal (note peters deal here wasn't his). I haven't dug it up for every deal but something I've heard more than once and Byrd not making any noise year 3 of his rookie deal supports it.

Well, he didn't make any noise in year 3 because he hadn't make the Pro Bowl, much less All-Pro, in 2 years, i.e. since his impressive rookie season.

[YoloinOhio]

I will get over my disdain for him dancing all over EJ's knee on Oct. 3 if we go after TJ Ward. He is a year younger than Byrd and I think he is a better all-around player.

[stuckinny]

But with the rookie pay scale and so much cap space, Back up the truck and retain some resemblance of a functioning front office. Is he worth 10 Million a year, no but it was a fornt loaded offer, he woudl average that with incentives over the 1st 3 years, at the end of the 3 years probably a bargain or easily tradeable!

[Dan]

if you are referring to the AP report on Byrd yesterday, you are mistaken in what you wrote.

the AP never reported the word guaranteed. it reported the Bills had offered Byrd a deal that would pay him about $30 million over the first three years of a multiyear contract. never was there any mention of what the guaranteed money would be.

 

jw

Assuming the APs sources are accurate, there's only a couple of reasons a safety turns that offer down... its heavily incentive laden and the player isn't confident he'll hit those incentives or the player just wants out (for whatever his reasons).

 

But about $10 million/yr for a safety is in no way being cheap or not wanting to re-sign your own. Is it?

[Green Lightning]

 

 

Some people let their hatred of Journalists blind them to a pathetic degree.

 

Still doesn't mean Graham isn't an asshat.

[Beerball]

Back on topic please.

[Tipster19]

I'm just speculating here but I think that the real problem was last year when we didn't come to terms and paid him. I think that last year the Old Timers controlled and handled the contracts, like they still do, and being unsettled with the newly acquired New Breed and it was mishandled. The Byrd camp felt slighted and got pissed off, the Old Timers stuck to their outdated guns and the New Breed were unsettled and powerless to have any significant influence or sayso. It's seems apparent to me that not only letting the Old Timers handle and botch this whole Byrd fiasco but more importantly they are the ones who are the most accountable for keeping this franchise in the doldrums for the last 14+ years. I hate to say or admit it but we really are a laughingstock in the NFL and sadly rightfully so. We're not victims of our reputation, we "earned" it.

 

Ps-While Belichick truly is an excellent coach and football guy but it didn't hurt that we most definitely added to his lore.

[RuntheDamnBall]

To people who don't like EJ Manuel, Graham is a truth-teller and just telling it like it is.

 

To reasonable people who think Manuel is a second-year player with much to prove, Graham is super un-professional and the proverbial blind squirrel, occasionally finding a nut. Any revelations that come through him are severely negated by his lack of professionalism.

[BADOLBILZ]

To people who don't like EJ Manuel, Graham is a truth-teller and just telling it like it is.

 

To reasonable people who think Manuel is a second-year player with much to prove, Graham is super un-professional and the proverbial blind squirrel, occasionally finding a nut. Any revelations that come through him are severely negated by his lack of professionalism.

 

I like EJ Manuel. I approved of drafting him. I think he is a second year player with much to prove. Like Graham, I don't think he really deserves to be handed the starting QB job without competition.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I like EJ Manuel. I approved of drafting him. I think he is a second year player with much to prove. Like Graham, I don't think he really deserves to be handed the starting QB job without competition.

Graham thinks they should draft a QB in the first round. I think they should draft a player who will make the most impact in the first round. Only one of the QBs fits that bill for me. And I do want a QB somewhere in rounds 2-5.

[Tipster19]

 

 

I like EJ Manuel. I approved of drafting him. I think he is a second year player with much to prove. Like Graham, I don't think he really deserves to be handed the starting QB job without competition.

 

I would have to say that this is a very fair assessment of EJ and our QB situation. Who, or should I say, what has Manuel done or shown where he shouldn't have to have fair competition to be the starter?? I think, like others have stated, including Graham, that if we just rely on EJ and name him the clear cut starter without him actually earning it then this will be a huge error on our part and could destroy any chance of ever moving forward or getting to the next level.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I would have to say that this is a very fair assessment of EJ and our QB situation. Who, or should I say, what has Manuel done or shown where he shouldn't have to have fair competition to be the starter?? I think, like others have stated, including Graham, that if we just rely on EJ and name him the clear cut starter without him actually earning it then this will be a huge error on our part and could destroy any chance of ever moving forward or getting to the next level.

Graham has not just said that EJ needs competition. He said to EJ's face that they should draft another first round QB -- which is essentially saying his replacement should be drafted this season, whether the talent is there or not.

[Tipster19]

 

Graham thinks they should draft a QB in the first round. I think they should draft a player who will make the most impact in the first round. Only one of the QBs fits that bill for me. And I do want a QB somewhere in rounds 2-5.

 

I would like to see us take a QB in the 3rd rd. IMO someone like Georgia's QB Aaron Murray or LSU's QB Zach Mettenberger would be an excellent choice and a very wise decision.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I would like to see us take a QB in the 3rd rd. IMO someone like Georgia's QB Aaron Murray or LSU's QB Zach Mettenberger would be an excellent choice and a very wise decision.

I'm all for either of those two. They may be available even later due to the injury concerns, but if the Bills like them I am comfortable with pulling the trigger at that slot. Even better if they have traded down somewhere and acquired an extra third.

[Doc]

Murray and Mettenberger won't see the field this year. They will not be any competition for EJ.

[Green Lightning]

Apply for his job. People like you have *all* of the answers.

 

Since Beerball would like us to keep it on topic, i will share. I was a working journalist for more than 20 years. In that time I've come to know that journalists -- sports and otherwise -- believe the following:

 

1) They speak for the every man. (Far from it.)

 

2) They always know more than you do. (They don't)

 

3) They speak the truth from a place on high. (Again,far from it)

 

They believe the above "truths" allows them a free license to characterize, pontificate about and even denigrate individuals. But they themselves have unbelievably thin skins and cannot bear even slight criticisms of their work or ethics. Given the penchant of "modern" journalists to make themselves part of the story instead of remaining impartial (read: TG - EJ interview) he's blown his cover and has shown his bias against EJ. He's not a columnist, he's a reporter.

 

And under point two of the above, like the rest of us, TG has precious little to judge EJ's future by. So all of my above reasoning was condensed by Mrags into a short sentence which I agreed with. And after three pages of posts, I have to say my support of Mrags characterization of Mr. Graham is one I'll stand by. As for EJ -- to early to say but I like his chances. Go Bills!

[Nix Buddy]

I heard Timmy on Cleveland radio when pettine was hired talking about the bills. he said he wasn't a fan of the bills as he wasn't from buffalo. I couldn't believe what I was hearing....send this phony out of town.

[kota]

Tim Graham is terrible. He is stirring the pot for nothing. All I remember about that guy is that he used to come here occasionally and got called out by someone and he quit the board. He couldn't take it for something. For a Media guy who can ask stupid questions can't take the heat.

[mrags]

 

 

Since Beerball would like us to keep it on topic, i will share. I was a working journalist for more than 20 years. In that time I've come to know that journalists -- sports and otherwise -- believe the following:

 

1) They speak for the every man. (Far from it.)

 

2) They always know more than you do. (They don't)

 

3) They speak the truth from a place on high. (Again,far from it)

 

They believe the above "truths" allows them a free license to characterize, pontificate about and even denigrate individuals. But they themselves have unbelievably thin skins and cannot bear even slight criticisms of their work or ethics. Given the penchant of "modern" journalists to make themselves part of the story instead of remaining impartial (read: TG - EJ interview) he's blown his cover and has shown his bias against EJ. He's not a columnist, he's a reporter.

 

And under point two of the above, like the rest of us, TG has precious little to judge EJ's future by. So all of my above reasoning was condensed by Mrags into a short sentence which I agreed with. And after three pages of posts, I have to say my support of Mrags characterization of Mr. Graham is one I'll stand by. As for EJ -- to early to say but I like his chances. Go Bills!

thank you. Again. Regardless of his familiarization with reporting, or journalism, he's still a POS Asshat. He speculates the same as anyone here or any other forum.

 

Contributing to that. Your point about how the media doesn't always know more than us fans do. You couldn't be any more correct about that. For example, I listen to WGR, A LOT!!! Regardless how I or anyone else feels about them and their knowledge, I still love to hear sports and that's where to get it. They many times Receive their Insode information from guys like TG and other reporters like Jerry Sullivan or Paul Hamilton. And yet I consistently hear things here on TbD hours before I ever do on WGR. Just proves your point further.

[enlightener]

 

It seems people have an issue personally with players like Stevie , Chad Johnson, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Ray Lewis, Darrell Revis, Phillip Rivers. These players are cocky and they are vocal about it. Everyone loves to throw it in their face when there's failure but never give them praise when they succeed. It's human nature.

wow....comparing SJ to hall of fame and future hall of fame players. I thought you finally realized Steve isn't even a number 1...why would you make this type of comparison then???? Steve can talk and brag and act cocky again when he has a 1200 yard season and plays more then %75 of it without getting injured....or benched...something hes never done yet.

[Thurman#1]

I disagree completely. They ARE taking care of him by offering him a ginormous deal esp for a FS. Then by not tagging him again if he doesn't want it, so he can sign somewhere he wants to be. They aren't allowing him to leave, he is choosing to leave. The 2nd tag just stretches it out and delays the ability to get his replacement in there. They know he wants to be a FA. The locker room will not look at this as a poor move on the Bills. Players come and go. Coaches come and go. It is business. They want to win, and if Byrd doesn't want to play there, I am sure they would rather he not do so so that they can get the players on the field who do. You don't think they aren't p*ssed he sat out 5 games last year until he was "100%" when they were all playing at 80% or less?

 

 

Speaking of ginormous, the whole "If he doesn't want to be here," nonsense is a ginormous bait and switch ploy.

 

Know where he wants to be? Where they pay him the most. He wants market value, and would be very satisfied to be in Buffalo, or elsewhere. Which is pretty much the same as every other NFL player with the leverage to get what they want.

 

It ain't about where he wants to be. It's about what he wants to get. Which is his maximum market value.

[PO'14]

fyi I wasn't arguing Mario. I was simply stating my argument using Mario because TaskersHhost was using him as a point that we overpay for players.

 

My opinion on Levitre, Is that he is very good and he was definitely missed this season. But he didn't do much this season on his new team.

 

You may take him over Stevie and that's fine. The love for Stevie on this board is definately not shared. That's another thread all together (and there's a new one usually every other week). I won't take away from how good Levitre is. I wanted him, but am very pleased we didn't overpay for a guard. Stevie on the other hand is not being paid like he's a top 5 or 10 player of his position either.

 

It seems people have an issue personally with players like Stevie , Chad Johnson, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Ray Lewis, Darrell Revis, Phillip Rivers. These players are cocky and they are vocal about it. Everyone loves to throw it in their face when there's failure but never give them praise when they succeed. It's human nature. We want our heroes, sports players, politicians, etc to be humble. Everyone loves to say they want the flamboyant leader but when they get him, they always wish he would just shut his mouth. You know what changes how we feel about these people in any position??? Winning.

Comparing SJ13 to Moss, Owens, Ray Lewis, Revis, Philip Rivers....Best laugh Ive had in this short 2014! I think Many gave praise to all of these players as most of them have won big games or have huge stats! Im wondering what Success we must praise SJ about? Ok, Im wrong, we must praise the floater TD catch against Carolina!

[Beerball]

OK, veering well off topic again. Please bring your rudder midships Mr. Chekov.

[C.Biscuit97]

Tim Graham has now entered the top 10 of people I want to punch. Congrats Timmy, well earned. It's pathetic the way he dismisses a rookie QB. I'm praying EJ shuts him up this year and TG ends up at the Yonkers Express.

[Beerball]

Tim Graham has now entered the top 10 of people I want to punch. Congrats Timmy, well earned. It's pathetic the way he dismisses a rookie QB. I'm praying EJ shuts him up this year and TG ends up at the Yonkers Express.

I'm much more skeptical than you, but, I too want nothing other than to see Manuel shine. He'll put Graham, me & many others in our place and I would like few things more.

[T master]

I caught it a few minutes in as he was finishing up about Byrd. After that here was some of the "highlights". He had no problem airing the dirty laundry of our division in the front office between the Old Timers and the New Breed. He is a big advocate of Marrone and he is NOT a player for EJ at all! Matter of fact he actually kind of gave a little snicker when he brought up Manuel. Made it a point to mention our lack of play-offs, which is fair but when he finished Zig Fracassi and Amanti Toomer had a pretty good har har as they were appalled from the realization of our play-off absence. He also talked about sending the wrong message to the rest of lockerroom. Not only are the Bills not taking care of our own home grown players but they are also allowing one of our playmakers to just leave which in turn makes it harder to be a winning team. Graham wasn't wrong in what he was saying but I can't say that I enjoyed hearing what I heard. I guess sometimes the truth really does hurt.

 

Well as i have always heard growing up from the elders in my life & believe it to be very true .

 

Sometimes (or should i say most times) THE TRUTH HURTS !!

[C.Biscuit97]

I'm much more skeptical than you, but, I too want nothing other than to see Manuel shine. He'll put Graham, me & many others in our place and I would like few things more.

 

It's not so much hope but just trying to be realistic about the situation. EJ Manuel was a rookie QB. most rookie Qbs are going to struggle at times. I don't get where people think they won't. And for a rookie to miss 2 weeks of training camp and a month of the season (and every wrs but Graham got hurt) is going to hurt his learning curb. As of right now, my biggest concern with EJ is the injuries.

 

My problem with Graham is this ESPN school of journalism. You must overreact to everything. EJ didn't make the pro bowl as a rookie, he's a bust. EJ plays well against Carolina, he's the future (I'd love to see what Graham said after that game). EJ left the game with a lead 3 times (ATL, CLE, NE) and the team lost the game. With how simple minded the media is, if the Bills hold on and win those games, EJ is viewed in a completely different light. With the same exact stats. It's kinda insane.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Back on topic please.

 

Seems like debating whether a pedestrian poster off the street could do a better job at reporting on the bills than Tim Graham is a great fit into this discussion.

 

It's not the critisicm of the team, it's the method by which he does it, the attempt to surround himself with controversy and the complete lack of objectivity. He decides he doesn't like something or can flame up some controversy, then finds a story to fit it, takes one side and rants.

 

He's one if the few I've read that could actually learn something from sully.

Edited March 4, 2014 by over 20 years of fanhood

[mrags]

wow....comparing SJ to hall of fame and future hall of fame players. I thought you finally realized Steve isn't even a number 1...why would you make this type of comparison then???? Steve can talk and brag and act cocky again when he has a 1200 yard season and plays more then %75 of it without getting injured....or benched...something hes never done yet.

wow. Way to go WAY OFF TOPIC. I know you hatred of Stevie runs deep but look past him for a second. Just because I brought up his name doesn't mean he was the reason for the damn argument. But you proved my point exactly. Your hatred for a guy that talks and is generally a guy that doesn't take idiots too seriously. He comes to work and does his job and because he's dropped some balls, something that all WRs do (even the great ones I didn't compare him with because of stats or play, I compared him with because of attitude) you have a hate for him because he's cocky and vocal and makes more than you do. Flipping burgers isn't a coveted job. I know your mother is proud of you, but you should probably set your sights higher.

 

 

 

Comparing SJ13 to Moss, Owens, Ray Lewis, Revis, Philip Rivers....Best laugh Ive had in this short 2014! I think Many gave praise to all of these players as most of them have won big games or have huge stats! Im wondering what Success we must praise SJ about? Ok, Im wrong, we must praise the floater TD catch against Carolina!

same goes for you. Your hatred for Stevie is so deep, you completely ran this off topic. Get a grip on yourself for a second.

[Dorkington]

I'm not TG's biggest fan, but I don't hate him for doubting EJ... it's not like EJ lit it up last year, or stayed healthy.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I'm not TG's biggest fan, but I don't hate him for doubting EJ... it's not like EJ lit it up last year, or stayed healthy.

 

objective doubt, is perfectly warranted and seems unobjectionable to most.

[The Poojer]

Byrd is denying he turned down a 3 year $30MM offer

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/04/jairus-byrd-says-hes-still-talking-to-the-bills/

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Byrd is denying he turned down a 3 year $30MM offer

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/04/jairus-byrd-says-hes-still-talking-to-the-bills/

 

Could be tactical semantics. Maybe they said we will consider that offer but want to compare it to other free agency offers. That would not be a rejection exactly.

 

I tend to stick to our AP friend for the most factual report out.

 

 

[jumbalaya]

The time for getting the Byrd deal done was 2013. The FO blew it then and it became a festering sore. Then Byrd sat for five game because of a fake injury. I bet the deal could have been done last year for less than what our rejected offer was this year.

[8-8 Forever?]

Can't say I can complain about the Bills not doing enough to keep Byrd. Three years and $30 Mil for a FS is a fair offer. He obviously wants to leave, so there is not much the FO can do about that. Time to find a replacement and move on.

Yep. This result was obvious a long time ago.

[thewildrabbit]

It's more than just a QB. Look at Denver, they have the best and still got blown out in the Super Bowl due to other major weaknesses on their team. We found out the obvious this year in NE, that Brady (a QB), cannot carry a team by himself.

 

For starters you need protection for that QB. The value of RBs has faded somewhat in this pass-oriented league, but they are still very much relevant and important to have a good 3-down RB.

Also, receivers. We hit on Woods, Johnson's a low-end starting caliber WR, but after that we really don't have much depth.

 

Defensively after Kiko we're empty at LB and the secondary now will be interesting w/o Byrd.

It amazes me on how few Bills fans get this fact, and most fans want a top O line. They just don't want to spend early draft picks in obtaining them. Like any other part of the team they are an integral part of making the offense work, and an elite player on the line is just as important as any other elite position on the team, save QB.

 

An elite O line player is the opposite of a scoring play maker, as when he does his job to the utmost you don't hear anything about it. They just don't get the recognition that other positions generate.

 

The NE Patriots had the highest scoring team in the NFL a few years ago, and got to the SB undefeated at 16-0, and then lost to the NY Giants who were able to put pressure on Brady with their front four. Even all those weapons the Broncos had this year didn't matter either. The Seahawks didn't blitz that much either, as they were able to get pressure because of great coverage. The Bills have many more high draft picks in their secondary, and on their D line, and were no where near as good as Seattle on defense this year.

 

In my view the answer is teams must be balanced in order to win on every level. When the defense takes away the passing game, then punish them with the run game or vice versa. The O line should at least be as strong as the teams D line, and this hasn't been the case since the Jim Kelly days.

 

The Bills let their best pass blocking player in Levitre walk and then try and replace him with garbage players, and with a cast of rookie QB's on the roster no less.

 

 

 

Anyway, I feel TG has an ax to grind against the Buffalo Bills for various reasons, and against their fans for more obvious reasons. He feels the need to stir the pot, and most times it needs to be stirred. Winning cures everything, and until this team has a winning season... more pots need to be stirred IMO.