D521646 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Well Hackett needs to go if he doesn't figure out how to use Spiller and Jackson more effectively. Tim- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) The lack of QBs was his fault for backing Marrone to get rid of TJax. Utter stupidity. Its not the OC's fault for who takes the field. Its the GM's for not supplying the proper talent, and the HC in his failure to identify to the GM he had a problem on offense. There is a command order in the NFL , and afaik the OC doesn't report directly to the GM. The proverbial buck stops with Marrone. Yeah, I agree a lot with FtL. Right now he should be stating his case hard for at least one real quality OLmen and receiving threat (WR or TE). ...on top of that he needs to truly figure out what made CJ so good in 2012 and repeat it in 2014 or we need to do something differently at RB. I know CJ was banged up, but from the get go it just didn't seem like things were working. Thanks Alas, Its is more then one O lineman at fault here IMO. If you look at the Bills O lines performance against their biggest rival, the NE Patriots in the last game of the season. You would see that three of the five on that line graded in the red. The offensive line struggled that day. LG Doug Legursky (-2.1) RG Kraig Urbik (-2.1) RT Eric Pears (-2.5) If these players can't get a decent grade playing against their biggest rivals then WTF good are they? Seriously, What The F*** good are they? How on gods green earth do the Bills ever expect to win the division with a line filled with scrubs? "Buffalo – Three Performances of Note Offensive Line Struggles Three of the five starters up front graded in the red including left guard Doug Legursky(-2.1), right guard, Kraig Urbik (-2.1), and right tackle Erik Pears (-2.5)." https://www.profootb...triots-week-17/ FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS graded the Bills #16 in run blocking-28th in pass blocking. ** I tend to believe in this stat over what PFF states simply because the Bills were the #2 team in the NFL in rushing, and did they allow the 4th most hits on the QB, and 5th most sacks. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats Some Bills fans along with Bills management have had their head buried in the sand the past decade in regards to the offensive line. They tend to think that they can get by with mediocre players taken off the waiver wire or selected in the later rounds. Meanwhile the playoff teams have been drafting in the first three rounds to build their lines. The Bills will never be successful until they recognize that they need to build a dominate O line across the board to protect those young QB's, and to be able to run / pass the ball to control the LoS, and clock. Edited February 12, 2014 by FeartheLosing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I agree...I didn't mean to imply otherwise...I just meant that Hackett not having to devote as much time to the auxiliary issues now that the other coaches are on board should help him in his game-planning. I agree too. I didn't think you implied anything else either, I was just throwing my 2 cents out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I'm confident the offense will be better. Let's see... rookie head coach, rookie OC, buncha games split between a rookie QB, a rookie back up QB, and a young journeyman backup QB, all rookies and 2nd year WR's (all but one?), and a new offensive scheme for any veterans. I can't believe they didn't make the playoffs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/12/30/refo-bills-patriots-week-17/ 15. Buffalo Bills (13th) PB: 11th, RB: 25th, PEN: 7th PB=pass blocking 11th , RB = run blocking 25th....correct? Now, these stats seem somewhat bizarre to me considering the Buffalo Bills were the #2 team in the NFL last season in rushing. The #1 team overall in rushing attempts. This tells me that the run blocking by the O line all season was one of the very worst in the league, and yet #2 in rushing? How does this happen? If you look around their website you find some rather interesting stats...Stock Down: Doug Legursky (-8.1, Q4 2013; -2.0, Q3 IMO the Bills need to finally upgrade RT-LG with some top draft picks, and if they want a player who can grade in the green against their biggest rival then they need a new RG too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I, for one, think Hackett had a decent rookie season last year. He had Tuel and Thad to work with for more than half the season. We didn't lose many games due to a lack of scoring. Most importantly, Hackett seemed to adapt pretty well. He made improvements on a consistent basis, in my opinion. I'm not sure what the knock is on this guy, to be honest. He started the season with 0 games experience at QB. They added Thad with 1 game under his belt and yet they had relatively effective offensive games, despite spiller being injured the majority of the season and key injuries at WR, which seemed to come in a wave. As a rookie OC, he seemed to field a competitive offense in 10-12 games and did some good things to build upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Well Hackett needs to go if he doesn't figure out how to use Spiller and Jackson more effectively. Tim- How can you say that when we had the 2nd best rushing team in the league. Just because both played evenly and neither has McCoy numbers doesn't mean Hackett was poor in schematically using the rush. His problem was in some rookie mistakes in the pass, and having to work as some have mentioned with Tuel and Thad. The real problem is not bringing in a $4 mil back up like Josh McCown, Matt Hassleback, and having better assistants under him. I at least credit Marrone for on paper assembling a better cast to support Hackett, as well as some decent talent in coaching on the defense. I have hopes now we can make some progress. If EJ does not progress or gets hurt multiple times next year, then I agree with the original post, Hackett will be gone. Marrone will not be willing to get fired after year three as he didn't improve offensive production. Hackett will be shown the door but not until after the end of the year. That's my two cents on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I agree too. I didn't think you implied anything else either, I was just throwing my 2 cents out there. Cool. I'm confident the offense will be better. Let's see... rookie head coach, rookie OC, buncha games split between a rookie QB, a rookie back up QB, and a young journeyman backup QB, all rookies and 2nd year WR's (all but one?), and a new offensive scheme for any veterans. I can't believe they didn't make the playoffs! Wait, you think those things contributed? FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS graded the Bills #16 in run blocking-28th in pass blocking. 15. Buffalo Bills (13th) PB: 11th, RB: 25th, PEN: 7th So are we believing PFF or FO? He started the season with 0 games experience at QB. They added Thad with 1 game under his belt and yet they had relatively effective offensive games, despite spiller being injured the majority of the season and key injuries at WR, which seemed to come in a wave. As a rookie OC, he seemed to field a competitive offense in 10-12 games and did some good things to build upon. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I don't think Gene Hackmen should be worried at all. He makes some amazing movies. My favorite has got to be Crimson Tide. Those are Lipizzaner Horses right??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I don't think Gene Hackmen should be worried at all. He makes some amazing movies. My favorite has got to be Crimson Tide. Those are Lipizzaner Horses right??? I always really liked him in Loose Cannons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) I thought Hackett did a heck of a job last year. He had 3 different starting QB's to deal with a didt have EJ for 6 games. Plus CJ was hurt as was Freddie. And Stevie. So overall I'd give him a B. It would be an A if he would have used CJ better. Agree. The QB situation was awful last year just in terms of continuity. People do forget that both CJ and FJ were nursing injuries a good portion of the year, especially CJ - as were several receivers. If you don't think injuries can be a real difference maker then, just remember - as good as a defensive coach as Pettine turned out to be, even he couldn't do anything with the secondary the first four + weeks of the season when his key defensive backs were injured - it was awful. I also would add this. I believe they made the right decision in letting Levitre go rather than pay the amount of money they would have had to pay to keep him - but they fell short in their evaluation of who they had on the team to relace him. In their defense: (1) They had to base their decisions on film, rather than having had the opportunity to evaluate in person. (2) I believe they thought they would have Legursky from the beginning of the year and when they didn't, they had no back up plan. (3) There is no denying that Legursky (when he finally did play), Urbik, and Pears ALL regressed in terms of their level of play from the year before. In the end, the O-Line play was not very good. They were up at the top of the league in yards rushing - but middle of the pack in yards per run. I was as frustrated as anyone watching CJ get crushed over and over again running inside the tackles; however, the truth is that the line (including tight ends) was even worse in their blocking on outside runs. None of the above was Hackett's fault. I think the FO and head coach could have done a better job of evaluating what they had in terms of O-Line talent; however, I will give them the benefit of the doubt as there were a number of players who truly did regress last year. This year is different and I am willing to give the coaching staff and front office very little slack in regard to the O-Line. They had a full season to evaluate their players and they now have to do what is necessary to upgrade. If they do that, add a legitimate #1 receiver and/or legitimate big play threat at tight end, EJ and other key offensive skill players manage to stay healthy all year - then I am ready to give Hackett a thumbs up or down at the end of the season. Until then, the jury is still out on Hackett. Edited February 12, 2014 by billsfan1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Maronne made a mistake in not bringing in a QB coach last year. He ended up over burdening his OC. Hackett had enough to do to just get grounded in the pro game as OC. It would have been okay had EJ been healthy throughout the season, but noooooo. He had to deal with and teach four different starters Kolb, EJ, Tuel, and Thad. Lets not forget about Matt Flynn and TJ either. That had to take away from his OC responsibilities more than Coach and Hackett thought would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Bills fans that want Hackett fired already are idiots, plain and simple. I cant even think of a reason why these people want Hackett fired? The offense finish nearly identical to the 2012 offense. This was year 1 with young QB's in and out of the lineup. I really dont even understand why people are even talking about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 The real problem is not bringing in a $4 mil back up like Josh McCown, Matt Hassleback, and having better assistants under him. What was Kevin Kolb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 What was Kevin Kolb? An expensive sky box ornament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 The knock would be because of how predictable they were on first down. They were continually in second or third and long. There was also a lack of play action. Hard to run play action from the shotgun. http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/downs 301 first downs 113 runs 149 passes 39 penalties Based on the statistics I've written above, I disagree with your assertion that the Bills were predictable on first down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 https://www.profootb...triots-week-17/ 15. Buffalo Bills (13th) PB: 11th, RB: 25th, PEN: 7th PB=pass blocking 11th , RB = run blocking 25th....correct? Now, these stats seem somewhat bizarre to me considering the Buffalo Bills were the #2 team in the NFL last season in rushing. The #1 team overall in rushing attempts. This tells me that the run blocking by the O line all season was one of the very worst in the league, and yet #2 in rushing? How does this happen? If you look around their website you find some rather interesting stats...Stock Down: Doug Legursky (-8.1, Q4 2013; -2.0, Q3 IMO the Bills need to finally upgrade RT-LG with some top draft picks, and if they want a player who can grade in the green against their biggest rival then they need a new RG too. They were #2 in rushing because they ran so much. Going by average (4.2 YPC), they were tied for 14th with 2 other teams, essentially meaning they were smack dab in the middle of the league. And I read a stat where the Bills gained the fewest yards on 1st down, putting them in much worse 2nd and 3rd down situations. Personally I'd like to see the OL upgraded via FA. I think Pears is a goner and Legursky stays as a backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 They were #2 in rushing because they ran so much. Going by average (4.2 YPC), they were tied for 14th with 2 other teams, essentially meaning they were smack dab in the middle of the league. And I read a stat where the Bills gained the fewest yards on 1st down, putting them in much worse 2nd and 3rd down situations. Personally I'd like to see the OL upgraded via FA. I think Pears is a goner and Legursky stays as a backup. I'm not really keen on building that line via free agents, as I seem to recall a complete waste of money back in 2006 on two high priced bums. I get visions of more bums and wasted money with linemen in free agency this year. What I'd love to see is a RT at #9, and an OG with the 2nd or 3rd pick, or if they can find another Cordy Glenn for the right side with the #2 I wouldn't squawk. Building that line the very best they can in order to develop EJ properly. To those that think that only the LT should be drafted in the first round. How does that stop teams from moving their best pass rusher to the right side to beat up on the weak link at RT? But yea, LG & RT need a upgrade for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 They were #2 in rushing because they ran so much. Going by average (4.2 YPC), they were tied for 14th with 2 other teams, essentially meaning they were smack dab in the middle of the league. And I read a stat where the Bills gained the fewest yards on 1st down, putting them in much worse 2nd and 3rd down situations. Personally I'd like to see the OL upgraded via FA. I think Pears is a goner and Legursky stays as a backup. Closest thing I can find is this: http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-yards-per-first-down-attempt/2013/ Yards per first-down attempt. Buffalo averaged 5.77 yards per first down rushing attempt, which ranked 17th in the league. By contrast, they averaged 5.96 yards per first down passing attempt, which was 25th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Or maybe...just maybe.....Hackett's system is correct and he didnt have all the pieces he needed in his first season? That is why I REALLY feel that OG will be a priority to this team in the offseason......if they were more effective running the ball between the tackles on 1st down.....then the offense flows much more smoothly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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