Detroit Defense: New Bills defense

[NoSaint]

 

 

I really don't care much if we blitz often or not. I just care if we knock the QB on his ass early and often. I think his Tennessee teams were pretty good at that. I have to have faith that the FO's stated goal of scheme flexibility based on talent available will hold true with this hire. He's a proven guy and a mature guy (unlike Hackett) and that's what Doug needs on the D side right now.

 

I think his titans low was 32 and high was 44 sacks. Averaged around 40. Last year we had 57.

 

44 would be 9th in the league last year.

40 would tie for 16th

32 would tie for 29th

 

In 2013 Detroit had 33 (28th) years before were 34 (tied 20th), 41 (tied 10th), 44 (tied 6th), 43 (9th)

 

Much like his overall rankings, mixed bags but some solid seasons in there. I'd expect a step back, but even with pettine it would've been tough to get 57. Mid 40s would be a good year as far as expectations go given what we saw, but also his career high.

Edited January 26, 2014 by NoSaint

[Green Lightning]

 

 

I think his lions low was 32 and high was 44 sacks. Averaged around 40. Last year we had 57.

 

44 would be 9th in the league last year.

40 would tie for 16th

32 would tie for 29th

 

In 2013 Detroit had 33 (28th) years before were 34 (tied 20th), 41 (tied 10th), 44 (tied 6th), 43 (9th)

 

Much like his overall rankings, mixed bags but some solid seasons in there. I'd expect a step back, but even with pettine it would've been tough to get 57. Mid 40s would be a good year as far as expectations go given what we saw, but also his career high.

 

It's looking like there is a trade off between an elite sack total and solid run control. I think I would trade some sacks for better gap control on slash runs. Although it was surely a lot of fun to be in the top echelon of pass rushing, hurries, QB hits and sacks.

[pimp 2]

Yep, Go Bills!!

 

How bout we wait & see how Schwartzy

So we are going change up the #8 overall defense and the first thing Bills fans have had to feel good about in years?

 

How about we just wait and see what the new DC decides is best after his evaluation of the talent on hand. I understand its fun trying to figure out & be the first to say so...being a fan of last years promising defense, there were areas for improvement. I'm giving Marrone the benefit of the doubt here, he seems to be very detailed oriented as per this report , http://www.buffalonews.com/columns/bucky-gleason/bills-foresight-results-in-quick-dc-hire-20140126?two-bills-drive .

So when picking a new DC I'm pretty sure he had to have the talent at hand in mind and a fit for who would be best to manage in the event of any staff changes. If not he could have just promoted from within for continuity sakes. Also coaches at this level have been exposed to so many different philosophy's through clinic's and conferences, they are more knowledgeable/flexible and less rigid than in the past. Schwartz's specialty was 3rd down efficiency and run defense in his previous coaching stints these are areas of need on this defense. I'll admit that I was looking forward to continued improvement from the Pettine approach but I'm not seeing the same ole Bills approach here...I'm commending them. Go Bills!

Edited January 26, 2014 by pimp 2

[CardinalScotts]

I looks like we will be going to a strait 43 defense that use small quick players. The Lions LBs are in the 230 - 240 range, DEs 250 - 270 and DTs 290 - 310. Looks like Marcel is going on a diet and Branch leaving . Personally I'm not a fan of this constantly going from 43 to 34 players, it makes it hard on the players and the defense and is a reason why they struggle. I am also a 34 scheme and player guy so not thrilled about this either.

 

http://www.detroitli...epth-chart.html

 

according to Buffalo Rumblings;

 

"Schwartz, who was the defensive coordinator in Tennessee for eight seasons, runs a mostly 4-3 base defense with his defensive ends lining up in a "Wide 9" technique in an effort to maximize their pass-rushing potential."

 

"The question fans should be asking about Schwartz at this point is how committed he is to that Wide 9 alignment, which changes the roles of the strong-side players drastically, and how much he can bend his system to better fit the skills of players like Lawson, and to better free up Williams. We have more study to do of the Lions' defense under Schwartz - which was coordinated by Gunther Cunningham, who worked with Schwartz in Tennessee, for the record - but right now, it's easy to project the Bills' personnel needs list changing a bit on defense heading into the next few months."

 

http://www.buffaloru...vs-mike-pettine

we didnt bring in Gunther Cunningham as defensive coordinator we brought Schwartz. The defense will look a lot like last year with two new LB's. Multiple fronts and a healthy back end.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

How do you know what he's going to do? Most good coaches take advantage of the players they have. Before getting all depressed wait a bit and see what he says.

 

Didn't Pettine install his high pressure 34 hybrid. Coaches do what they know and he will install a 43 of some kind that gets us back to smaller players over time.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Tomlin was a defensive HC coming to a team that had an established DC. Schwartz is an established DC coming to team that has an offensive HC. I'm not sure where the egos come in... Marrone surely has ideas of how he wants the defense to be run, but I would expect him to give great latitude to a guy who has more experience on that side of the ball. Tomlin likely had to check his ego a lot more, I would think, but don't know all of what occurred there.

 

Not perfect analogy, but it's analogous. How many times do you see new coaches (both head and assistant) come in and it's "my way or the highway." Greggo is the perfect example-- he had to come in here, blow up a top 5 defense in order to run his precious 46 scheme.

 

It takes humility to say, "my scheme might be better, but based on personnel, I am okay running a different scheme (which I may not even know a lot about) and I am going to adapt." Other than mike Tomlin, I am not sure I know any other coaches off the top of my head that have done that.

[JPS]

So we are going change up the #8 overall defense and the first thing Bills fans have had to feel good about in years?

You felt good about that defense?? Who gave up 24 points a game??? Not me...

[JPS]

Schwartz has a good resume and great references. And he's starting with very different personnel than he had anywhere. I'm excited to see what he can do. Who knows? If the Bills can upgrade the LB talent and resign Byrd, Schwartz may look like a genius next year.

 

Let's also not forget that our QBs WILL play better and our time of possession will probably improve regardless of who the DC is. This hiring is a solid move and was realistically the best person out there for this gig.

Edited January 26, 2014 by JPS

[NewEra]

 

 

It's looking like there is a trade off between an elite sack total and solid run control. I think I would trade some sacks for better gap control on slash runs. Although it was surely a lot of fun to be in the top echelon of pass rushing, hurries, QB hits and sacks.

 

My thoughts exactly. Ill miss this years pass rush, but if we can improve the run D and play better on 3rd downs (another of schwartzs "specialties") ill be happy.

[3rdand12]

 

 

I think his lions low was 32 and high was 44 sacks. Averaged around 40. Last year we had 57.

 

44 would be 9th in the league last year.

40 would tie for 16th

32 would tie for 29th

 

In 2013 Detroit had 33 (28th) years before were 34 (tied 20th), 41 (tied 10th), 44 (tied 6th), 43 (9th)

 

Much like his overall rankings, mixed bags but some solid seasons in there. I'd expect a step back, but even with pettine it would've been tough to get 57. Mid 40s would be a good year as far as expectations go given what we saw, but also his career high.

Keep in mind he was Not the DC in Detroit.

i know i know . But its a point to consider for me.

 

 

 

Didn't Pettine install his high pressure 34 hybrid. Coaches do what they know and he will install a 43 of some kind that gets us back to smaller players over time.

I would guess we hired Mike for just that bring an aggressive system in. He did. it did what is was supposed to.

Let let Jim just tweak it and fix the weaknesses.

What coaches want to do is win .

Bills players responded very very well to Pettines coaching. Only a fool would make a broad sweeping change and Jims no fool.

BB have some faith on this one !@

Cardinal Scott , i think you are closest to the pin !!

[NoSaint]

Keep in mind he was Not the DC in Detroit.

i know i know . But its a point to consider for me.

 

That's why I gave his high, low and average in tenn too. His numbers have been pretty consistently in that exact window, so I'm not sure what to keep in mind on that front. What are you considering on that front (ie what differences are you seeing or weighing between the two stretches?)?

 

I've heard a few people say he wasn't DC in Detroit, but not a lot of follow up on why Tennessee was different or more promising for us.

 

Oooops - going back to edit, see I put lions instead of titans in the first part

Edited January 26, 2014 by NoSaint

[3rdand12]

 

 

That's why I gave his high, low and average in tenn too. His numbers have been pretty consistently in that exact window, so I'm not sure what to keep in mind on that front. What are you considering on that front (ie what differences are you seeing or weighing between the two stretches?)?

 

I've heard a few people say he wasn't DC in Detroit, but not a lot of follow up on why Tennessee was different or more promising for us.

 

Oooops - going back to edit, see I put lions instead of titans in the first part

Honestly sir i am not studying statistics or personnel for each year. I have looked though and been trying to learn about this Schwartz fellow. I am not good at comparisons .

But i dont think he was struggling as a DC . I think the HC position /time /place/personnel was not as he wished .

So i will refer to his potential ability to recover nicely returning his position of strength .

I think , Marrone Whaley and Jim are going to be a good fit. I will consider this a well planned move and not similar to previous periods of Bills coaching management .

Maybe I am gaining enthusiasm the more I consider the big picture and my cup runneth over : ) oops.

But i can see a pretty good upside potential with this hire , and at worst case the Bills defense getting better against the run and getting off the field on 3rd downs , and more balanced statistically . Still "get after it " ball.

 

This is a Marrone pick i bet. And our Dougie will become a smarter coach from having Jim near him.

Nice long history for such a young guy .

Edited January 26, 2014 by 3rdand12

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I keep reading 'Hybrid' this and that. SF, Seattle, Denver, etc just line up in a 4-3 and go get it. You can scheme within a Defense to make it more effective not this hybrid crap. Look we have the front 4 to be a damn good 4-3 defense. I say draft another outstanding LB like Kiko, a DB or so and lets run this damn thing.

 

if you read my second post it shows that Seattle runs a 43 hybrid and SF runs a 34 with 43 looks, so to me the top Ds use a lot of scheming and hybrids.

[GunnerBill]

I think the key these days to being able to pressure Quarterbacks and sack Quarterbacks is not whether you are running 43 or 34 or whether you are blitzing often or rarely.... it's about not being vanilla and having an ability to disguise what you are doing. With Wanny's defense you could tell by the way they lined up pretty much every snap what they were going to do. With Pettine they could line up exactly the same 3 snaps in a row and throw three very different things at you...... once the season was done (after Atlanta basically) I spent the remaining games just watching the way the D lined up and what they then did, there were very few patterns and that's why they kept offenses off guard. However, being so creative and disguising things so much might have actually been part of the reason why we never fixed the run D. I'd be happy to tweak that balance and take 10 fewer sacks for saving ourselves 10 big gash running plays that cost us points.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

To me I don't like the idea because the last attempt at the 43 had horrid results.

 

But IF he can do it with the talent we have I'm OK with it. I don't want to see the core the Bills have get torn apart.

[Doc]

I'd rather wait and see what kind of defense he actually does employ, than fret about what he might do.

[first_and_ten]

Most coaches have big egos, and prefer bringing along the scheme that worked best for them.

 

If Schwartz is smart, he will copy Pettine's defense exactly - with a couple tweaks to improve gap control against the run. However, highly doubt this will happen.

 

Before we make Pettine a god, let's be clear. He wasn't perfect. The run defense needs more than tweeking. Schwartz has a very good track record as defensive coordinator. I am excited that the Bills were actually decisive aand decided to go with a proven guy. This is a big change for this franchise. I like the hire.

[billsfan1959]

Didn't Pettine install his high pressure 34 hybrid. Coaches do what they know and he will install a 43 of some kind that gets us back to smaller players over time.

 

Marrone wanted an aggressive, attacking defense. He hired Pettine specifically to bring his high pressure defense to Buffalo. It is not as if we had a system in place that was working - or even headed in the direction Marrone wanted. Now we do. The defense improved drastically; however, we have a ways to go. As far as I know, Marrone hasn't changed his philosophy of wanting an aggressive, attacking defense, and, after a year of coaching this team, has a pretty good idea of the defensive personnel on his team and what their strengths and weaknesses are. I believe he hired the best coach available to build on what is already in place. It may not be exactly what Pettine did - but, I think it will fall within the philosophy of what Marrone wants without starting over, and without overhauling personnel.

 

We'll see.

[YoloinOhio]

Marrone wanted an aggressive, attacking defense. He hired Pettine specifically to bring his high pressure defense to Buffalo. It is not as if we had a system in place that was working - or even headed in the direction Marrone wanted. Now we do. The defense improved drastically; however, we have a ways to go. As far as I know, Marrone hasn't changed his philosophy of wanting an aggressive, attacking defense, and, after a year of coaching this team, has a pretty good idea of the defensive personnel on his team and what their strengths and weaknesses are. I believe he hired the best coach available to build on what is already in place. It may not be exactly what Pettine did - but, I think it will fall within the philosophy of what Marrone wants without starting over, and without overhauling personnel.

 

We'll see.

Agree 100%

[YoloinOhio]

Michael Purinton ‏@NickelCityBills 2m

Preparation is a common theme when people talk about Schwartz. Can't think of a better trait from a coach