Why Does Everyone Love Pettine So Much?

[Chef Jim]

Its tough to interpret the stats when you don't watch the game too.

 

[billsfan89]

The defense looks competent, its far from perfect but it looks way better than it did last year. The offense has left the defense out to dry and its at times held up. The defense is also creating turnovers and getting sacks at a rate that they weren't last year.

 

Last years D was abysmal it never really looked like a NFL defense, this years D looks and is playing much better.

[thewildrabbit]

I didn't think it was that complex, we have the same record after 8 games as we have for 5 out of the last 13 years. Six of the past 13 years we had a better record after 8 games. These past 13 years are talked about as the dark ages by most Bill's fans. Sorry, I don't see the reason for such happiness. I admit the defense is better, but we still lose. That's the stat that matters.

The Bills are mostly losing because the Bills QB is just off the PS, and lots of stars on the offense injured. (EJ, knee.Spiller, high ankle sprain. SJ back, hip flexor. Jackson, knee) Plus, the bad play of LG Colin Brown who was finally cut loose.

 

Then you have,

"Buffalo – Three Performances of Note

Monsters in the Middle

Though it was in a losing effort, the Bills got a pair of monster performances out of their defensive tackles Kyle Williams and Marcel Dareus. Both terrorized center Brian De La Puente all game, with the Saint finishing the day at -4.6 for his efforts. Williams did his part early forcing a punt on New Orleans’ second drive (1Q, 8:36). De La Puente didn’t have much of a chance on the reach block as Williams exploded through the lane vacated by the pull blocker and tackled the running back for a two yard loss. He also had success against left guard Ben Grubbs (e.g. 1Q, 1:16 and 3Q, 13:15), and finished at +4.8 with two sacks, two pressures, and a stop on all three of his tackles.

As with his counterpart, it’s difficult to pick out just a few plays for Dareus (+4.5). He made plays in both run defense and pass rushing against De La Puente as he stopped Khiry Robinson for a short gain at 3:30 of the first. Also at 1:27 of the second quarter Dareus came away with a QB hit (though the play was nullified)."

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/10/28/refo-bills-saints-week-8/

The difference this season is that the defense isn't only rushing the front four with little or no success like last season. The players are also playing their hearts out this year.

Once the offensive performance starts to match the defensive performance the Bills will win more games

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Our defense has been a little more fun to watch at times, but it isn't much better than it was last year. Discuss.

 

because it's the type of defense that is aggressive and is successful else where. In time we will have one of the best Ds in the league.

[ganesh]

We average 13 yards less than we did last year. But turnovers are a killer.

 

And if you don't think this defense is much better than last year, you aren't paying attention. They are finally getting healthy. If they don't turn into a very good unit in the 2nd half of the season, then you need to worry. But there are plenty of good signs if you chose to look at them.

 

Consistency still seems to be a big concern:

 

1. Dareus was a monster in the Miami game and was awfully quiet against the Saints.

2. KW was pedestrian in the first quarter of the season before picking his game up for the last three games.

3. Mario has picked up his game after being pedestrian (minus the one game with 4 sacks) early on in the season

4. Kiko has had two quiet games after a 22-tackle game against the Bengals.

5. Haven't heard much from Nigel or Moats.

6. The DB play has been the most inconsistent of the lot.

[Wooderson]

It's tough to make plays when you're playing a QB who can put the ball wherever he wants whenever he wants. That slant TD to Lance Moore on Robey couldn't have been covered any better. Thad fumbled twice to give the Saints two short fields and our defense held strong which led to two missed field goals. I see absolutely nothing wrong with the way we're playing defense (besides the DEF breakdown where Hughes was covering Stills, I really wish the broadcast would've looked into that play more in depth). Everybody out there are professionals, not everyone is gonna be perfect on every single play. Some of you guys have these expectations that we are gonna go and light the world on fire with a 4th string PS QB, rookies all over the field, a banged up secondary, and a banged up backfield. Not to mention one of the toughest away venues in the league. I want to see them win too, but realistically our back was against the wall from the start. We have a bright future with a great rookie draft class. Let's keep playing hard, building confidence, and see where it takes us.

 

In my opinion, turnovers and penalties are what lost us this game...as it seems to be a recurring theme every week. Saints produced three first downs due to penalities. Against Drew Brees and that offense you cannot allow them second opportunities, they'll take advantage and that's exactly what they did.

[FLFan]

It's tough to make plays when you're playing a QB who can put the ball wherever he wants whenever he wants. That slant TD to Lance Moore on Robey couldn't have been covered any better. Thad fumbled twice to give the Saints two short fields and our defense held strong which led to two missed field goals. I see absolutely nothing wrong with the way we're playing defense (besides the DEF breakdown where Hughes was covering Stills, I really wish the broadcast would've looked into that play more in depth). Everybody out there are professionals, not everyone is gonna be perfect on every single play. Some of you guys have these expectations that we are gonna go and light the world on fire with a 4th string PS QB, rookies all over the field, a banged up secondary, and a banged up backfield. Not to mention one of the toughest away venues in the league. I want to see them win too, but realistically our back was against the wall from the start. We have a bright future with a great rookie draft class. Let's keep playing hard, building confidence, and see where it takes us.

 

In my opinion, turnovers and penalties are what lost us this game...as it seems to be a recurring theme every week. Saints produced three first downs due to penalities. Against Drew Brees and that offense you cannot allow them second opportunities, they'll take advantage and that's exactly what they did.

This is exactly right. The Bills D played well enough to keep this close throughout. They were dominant to start the game. Turnovers and penalties and general ineffectiveness of the offense lost the game. The Saint are a better team, but with an offensive performance to match the defense, the Bills win. This will come.

[BuffOrange]

The key stat IMO is total plays. I am willing to bet our defense is in the top 5 of total plays faced. a lot of that is due to poor TOP and 3 and outs by the offense. If you face more plays, probably going to give up more yards.

 

In any event, the D is vastly improved. All you have to do us watch them play to know that.

The defense is the only reason this team is competitive week in and week out. it's the only reason we won 3 games. Pettines scheme is very good.

 

Advanced NFL stats has the Bills D ranked 11 IN THE NFL. This is based off several metrics.

> They're currently ranked 25th in points allowed and that's what really matters.

 

This stat is misleading. The Bills have a no-huddle offense. To make matters worse, our offense has a lot of three-and-outs. Together, these two facts mean that our offense is much worse than average at chewing up the clock. The worse an offense is at eating the clock, the more possessions your defense will face; and the worse its per-game stats will look. (Through no fault of its own.)

 

It's much more accurate to look at the defense's per play or per-drive stats; because these are not distorted by the no-huddle. Our yards allowed per running play stat is much better this year than it was this time last year.

 

All I can say fellas is lots of luck convincing anyone who doesn't already know these obviously correct things to be true.

 

'Pace adjusted' stats have been around in basketball for much longer. Yet there are still hoops fans who refuse to acknowledge that comparing pts per game for a run&gun team vs a team that burns the shot clock on every possession is ridiculous.

It's going to be a looong time (if ever) before this sinks in w/ some football fans.

 

I suppose we're 1 play away from being .500 with a terrible defense because...our offense is so good?

At least we don't have to hear that stupid stat about scoring 20pts in every game (thanks to our defense in half of them) anymore.

[K-9]

This is exactly right. The Bills D played well enough to keep this close throughout. They were dominant to start the game. Turnovers and penalties and general ineffectiveness of the offense lost the game. The Saint are a better team, but with an offensive performance to match the defense, the Bills win. This will come.

 

Agreed. If our O matches the D in that game, it's shades of Kelly and Bills going to San Francisco back in the day and playing a punt-free game.

 

Alas, Thad Lewis isn't Jim Kelly.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Aren't plays faced and time of possession also factors that are influenced by your teams offensive production and ability to sustain drives? Its a dynamic situation and if we're going to judge this team's defense vs. last years, we need to take a look at why we're facing so many plays. There's certainly room for improvement on 3rd downs though as you've noted.

 

Hey Jaur, of course they are (the OP's point). My point is that offensive production and ability of the offense to sustain drives is one contributor to # of plays and TOP on D, ability of the defense to stifle drives is another. So it's hard to say - is the offense worse or the defense better? Lot of complaints last year about how our poor D didn't have a chance because of poor offensive play, as I recall.

 

I brought up 3rd down conversion and yds/play because they are two metrics that seem less influenced by offensive play - and these show that while somewhat improved over last year's record-setting poor D, the Bills are nowhere near a top defensive team.

 

Aside: I'm freakin' gettin' old. Time was I'd be all over pulling up W-L records and showing what commonly-used D stats they do and don't correlate with. I actually started to download some #s and closed the file. Strange.

[BillnutinHouston]

I haven't seen a single shot of Pettine being fired up on the side lines, on TV. So we are criticising Marrone because he's not yelling and geting red in the face in the TV shots you've seen on him during a game? That's ridiculous.

This is correct.

[The Big Cat]

Hey Jaur, of course they are (the OP's point). My point is that offensive production and ability of the offense to sustain drives is one contributor to # of plays and TOP on D, ability of the defense to stifle drives is another. So it's hard to say - is the offense worse or the defense better? Lot of complaints last year about how our poor D didn't have a chance because of poor offensive play, as I recall.

 

I brought up 3rd down conversion and yds/play because they are two metrics that seem less influenced by offensive play - and these show that while somewhat improved over last year's record-setting poor D, the Bills are nowhere near a top defensive team.

 

Aside: I'm freakin' gettin' old. Time was I'd be all over pulling up W-L records and showing what commonly-used D stats they do and don't correlate with. I actually started to download some #s and closed the file. Strange.

 

Did you type that right? Because I don't recall.

[8-8 Forever?]

no more warning points !! yay !!

 

signed,

 

the kinder gentler 8&8

[YoloinOhio]

Pettine will earn his stripes tomorrow if he can give Tuel a short field to work with and maybe a little cushion with a pick-6. The coaches have to know that to have a chance to win they will need to put the game in someone else's hands whether it be an injured Thad or Tuel (don't think we see Flynn unless Tuel just can't do anything in the 1st half). That will be the hands of the defense.

[KeisterHollow]

Pettine's had a whole lot of injuries to deal with, specifically in the secondary.

Not to mention - and this, I believe, MUST be considered when criticizing Pettine's unit - the Offense is ALWAYS going on and then off the field in one or two set of downs!!! The Defense is out there ALL GAME LONG!!! Imagine how good this defense could be, WITH THE PLAYERS THEY HAVE NOW, if they were healthy, and if the offense were to stay on the field and score a few more points a game. Even, I'd say, just staying on the field more would add a few more wins to our column, and improve the defenses stats. I like what Pettine has done. I believe we need to add a NT type that can stuff the middle up and stop the inside runs, but otherwise, I like his scheme. I suspect we'll see additions to the LB corps and probably another CB next year, too - so it should only get better. The defense is not, and has not been, the problem - save for when the ENTIRE starting secondary was injured, and Rogers singlehandedly lost us the Jets game.

[YoloinOhio]

Not to mention - and this, I believe, MUST be considered when criticizing Pettine's unit - the Offense is ALWAYS going on and then off the field in one or two set of downs!!! The Defense is out there ALL GAME LONG!!! Imagine how good this defense could be, WITH THE PLAYERS THEY HAVE NOW, if they were healthy, and if the offense were to stay on the field and score a few more points a game. Even, I'd say, just staying on the field more would add a few more wins to our column, and improve the defenses stats. I like what Pettine has done. I believe we need to add a NT type that can stuff the middle up and stop the inside runs, but otherwise, I like his scheme. I suspect we'll see additions to the LB corps and probably another CB next year, too - so it should only get better. The defense is not, and has not been, the problem - save for when the ENTIRE starting secondary was injured, and Rogers singlehandedly lost us the Jets game.

If anyone seriously thinks last year's Wanny "defense" is the same as this year's, they are just not looking close enough.

[machine gun kelly]

Pettine is an excellent coach. It's the obvious with a poor offense who can't sustain a drive. I'm sick of going three and out 15 times a game.

[Smears]

So saying that are better than one of the worst defenses in team history doesn't say much. Sure they are getting sacks and INT's, something they didn't get last year. However they are at the bottom of the league in most other categories.

 

Having Hughes cover deep threat WR's and the best TE in football doesn't help much.

 

Pettine's defense has certainly been more fun to watch, but he has been far from a savior.

That was a blown coverage on Hughes if thats what youre referring to. Some of you boy will never be happy until we shut start shutting out every team. Im happy with Pettine. You should be happy he is here.

[Billsguy]

Our defense has been a little more fun to watch at times, but it isn't much better than it was last year. Discuss.

 

Let's look at some numbers

 

2012 The Bills allowed 27.2 pts/gm and yielded 362.9 yds/gm (after 8 games they were 3-5)

 

2013 The Bills allowed 26.6 pts/gm and yielded 381.1 yds/gm (after 8 games they are 3-5)

 

Where's the big improvement everyone is talking about? The Bills defense ranks 29th out of 32 teams at this point. Last year the Bills ranked 22nd.

 

Maybe the stats don't tell the whole story, but they are not totally irrelevant.

[MDH]

That was a blown coverage on Hughes if thats what youre referring to. Some of you boy will never be happy until we shut start shutting out every team. Im happy with Pettine. You should be happy he is here.

 

KC hasn't allowed a team to score more than 17 points this year. The Bills haven't held a team to less than 20.

 

Nobody expects the Bills to shut out teams but how about a more consistent D who has the occasional shut down performance before we anoint the D coordinator the 2nd coming of Buddy Ryan.