The Big Cat Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 And I would add to this that for the last 13 years, especially under Jauron and Gailey, we could beat the bad teams, but lose to the good teams. In our 8 games so far we've beaten teams with records of 2-5, 3-4, and 4-3. We've lost to teams with records of 7-1, 6-1, 4-4, 6-2, and 3-4. Still not seeing the difference. At some point we have to start beating the good teams too. When that happens I'll think have changed. With Rookie's at QB, HC, OC and MLB, did you seriously expect that change to happen this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
run dat back Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 This year's defense has achieved the rare feat of being overrated - by a large section of Bills fans. But seriously, compared to Wanny's abject failure, things are definitely headed in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Oh, you're citing total yards as a viable statistic? My heavens. And points. Its the two stats that most sites go with. Pro football reference. ESPN. CBSSports.com Its usually the yardage per game that most sites rank the teams on. ---------------- To all the fans thinking this years defense isn't any better then last years.... 2012 Week one, 48 points Jets week four, 52 points Patriots week five, 45 points 49ers. which was a power running team that managed to set franchise offensive record by the QB that Hof QB's Joe Montana & Steve Young never set. The Bills defense allowed both franchise and NFL records for being bad, a record that had never been set in the entire history of the NFL. week fifteen 50 points Seahawks It was by far the most embarrassing season for the Bills defense that I can recall.DC Dave Wannstadt was a joke. -------------------- The starting quarter of this season has been marred by several injures to the defensive secondary. One replacement player (CB) in particular allowed 74% of the passing yards, and two TD's to the NY Jets. This season I'm proud of the way this team hangs in there and plays their proverbial hearts out. Something they never did for Gailey / Wannstooge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) With Rookie's at QB, HC, OC and MLB, did you seriously expect that change to happen this year? Yes. After hearing all the great pub and accolades of Coach Marrone and Hackett Jr., I expected us to be an improved team (W/L record). Not more of the same. Just because you got a new coach doesn't mean you can't get better. Wade Phillips was able to turn the Houston defense from one the worst to one of the best in one season. Even Dick Jauron was able to improve the Bills from 5-11 to 7-9 in one season with an inexperienced QB and a lot of rookies. Pete Carrol was able to turn the Seahawks from 5-11 to 7-9 in one season with an injured Tarvaris Jackson as his QB. Although we have a lot of rookies we also have a lot of vets that are legit NFL starters like Mario, Kyle W, Mr. Big Stuff, Branch, Leodis, Byrd, Fred, CJ, SJ, Woods,Chandler, and probably a couple of others I forgot. How long do we have to expect to lose with all these young guys? Can we expect to win next year Mr Big Cat? Edited October 28, 2013 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Yes. After hearing all the great pub and accolades of Coach Marrone and Hackett Jr., I expected us to be an improved team (W/L record). Not more of the same. Just because you got a new coach doesn't mean you can't get better. Wade Phillips was able to turn the Houston defense from one the worst to one of the best in one season. Even Dick Jauron was able to improve the Bills from 5-11 to 7-9 in one season with an inexperienced QB and a lot of rookies. Pete Carrol was able to turn the Seahawks from 5-11 to 7-9 in one season with an injured Tarvaris Jackson as his QB. Although we have a lot of rookies we also have a lot of vets that are legit NFL starters like Mario, Kyle W, Mr. Big Stuff, Branch, Leodis, Byrd, Fred, CJ, SJ, Woods,Chandler, and probably a couple of others I forgot. How long do we have to expect to lose with all these young guys? Can we expect to win next year Mr Big Cat? I guess I hadn't realized the season ended after 8 games this year. I guess I also hadn't realized there has been zero improvement this year, in any aspect of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 And I would add to this that for the last 13 years, especially under Jauron and Gailey, we could beat the bad teams, but lose to the good teams. In our 8 games so far we've beaten teams with records of 2-5, 3-4, and 4-3. We've lost to teams with records of 7-1, 6-1, 4-4, 6-2, and 3-4. Still not seeing the difference. At some point we have to start beating the good teams too. When that happens I'll think have changed. Theres more to winning then just defense. Measuring defense purely in terms of wins is flawed for very obvious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I guess I hadn't realized the season ended after 8 games this year. I guess I also hadn't realized there has been zero improvement this year, in any aspect of the game. Good point. Let's see how the rest of the season plays out. If we split the last 8 our record will be better and I'll be somewhat happy. I am hoping to bypass the whole Dick 7-9 thing and go straight to 8-8 or better. With all these rookies and everything though, can we expect to do better? I expect to do better. With all the "improvements" and "new attitudes" we've seen over the last 13 years, the only improvement I care about now is in the W/L record. That's all that matters. Not seeing it yet, but I hope we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smears Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 This thread, I suppose, was created to burn Pettine at the stake. Its obvious we are better this year. Im happy Pettine is here and I hope he stays for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Theres more to winning then just defense. Measuring defense purely in terms of wins is flawed for very obvious reasons. Sorry, I got off on a whole team tangent. Of course this is not all on the defense, but defense not improving at least in points given and yard given up is contributing to the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 " " Another weekly overreaction thread ? Sweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 D is markedly better than last year. O is worse, which is pretty amazing. People expecting more out of O are funny. Put the QBs we have seen this year anywhere and it would be bad news. Add in the difference between Spiller last year and this year and it is a wonder that they remain competitive at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I was at th egame yesterday and i will say this for the first quarter and about 10 mins into the second quarter the D was everywhere shutting down Brees and Co. The last 5 mins of the second quarter sealed the Bills fate. The o need to get one drive and run the clock down and get a field goal at least. When this was not accomplished the Saints went right after the Bills. It appears due to injuries the Bills are thin in certain areas. As the season is progressing we are seeing what the Bills need to address in the draft and FA. Another stud corner, OG, DT, and LB(s). Robery looks great for depth. McKelvin will be an awesome slot corner. And Gilmore with another good Corner will make this D awesome. Kiko just keeps looking better and better. The guy is everywhere. This D is going to be great. I think the Bills have the right guy in Pettine with the makings of the right talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLEN1QB Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 This is the dumbest thread ever! Because look at the defense we had last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 The key stat IMO is total plays. I am willing to bet our defense is in the top 5 of total plays faced. a lot of that is due to poor TOP and 3 and outs by the offense. If you face more plays, probably going to give up more yards. In any event, the D is vastly improved. All you have to do us watch them play to know that. Errrrrm, but if a defense is top 5 of total plays faced, isn't that just another way to say they aren't very good, they are not getting stops on 3rd down or they're giving up such long yardage per play they don't face that many 3rd downs? This year's Bills allow 39% of 3rd downs to be converted. That's 21st in the league. They also give up an average of 5.3 yards per play, which is 15th - 17th in the league. Both of those stats are improved from last year, and they "eyeball" test says we've improved, but I'm not sure I'd give us "vastly" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nix Buddy Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 If you post one statistic or metric in order to argue that the Bills defense has not improved, please provide conclusive evidence that this one stat or metric drives (W-L) outcomes. If you are going to make a compelling argument, you're best served including several defensive statistics and comparing them to last year both in relative and quantitative terms. I didn't think it was that complex, we have the same record after 8 games as we have for 5 out of the last 13 years. Six of the past 13 years we had a better record after 8 games. These past 13 years are talked about as the dark ages by most Bill's fans. Sorry, I don't see the reason for such happiness. I admit the defense is better, but we still lose. That's the stat that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I didn't think it was that complex, we have the same record after 8 games as we have for 5 out of the last 13 years. Six of the past 13 years we had a better record after 8 games. These past 13 years are talked about as the dark ages by most Bill's fans. Sorry, I don't see the reason for such happiness. I admit the defense is better, but we still lose. That's the stat that matters. no arguement there. I believe why people are excited about this D is because of some of the young guys on it, as well as the aggressive style Pettine uses at times. Also factor in the laid back base D we watched last year, this scheme is much more exciting. As others have said once the O fully pulls it's weight i think we will see much better W-L. Plus a few more pieces are needed on both sides of the ball. I also may say that by next year some of those pieces may be ready to be real starters- like a Robey who shows flashes of being good, but then shows why he is a rook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I didn't think it was that complex, we have the same record after 8 games as we have for 5 out of the last 13 years. Six of the past 13 years we had a better record after 8 games. These past 13 years are talked about as the dark ages by most Bill's fans. Sorry, I don't see the reason for such happiness. I admit the defense is better, but we still lose. That's the stat that matters. What is this thread about again? Errrrrm, but if a defense is top 5 of total plays faced, isn't that just another way to say they aren't very good, they are not getting stops on 3rd down or they're giving up such long yardage per play they don't face that many 3rd downs? This year's Bills allow 39% of 3rd downs to be converted. That's 21st in the league. They also give up an average of 5.3 yards per play, which is 15th - 17th in the league. Both of those stats are improved from last year, and they "eyeball" test says we've improved, but I'm not sure I'd give us "vastly" Aren't plays faced and time of possession also factors that are influenced by your teams offensive production and ability to sustain drives? Its a dynamic situation and if we're going to judge this team's defense vs. last years, we need to take a look at why we're facing so many plays. There's certainly room for improvement on 3rd downs though as you've noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 If you post one statistic or metric in order to argue that the Bills defense has not improved, please provide conclusive evidence that this one stat or metric drives (W-L) outcomes. If you are going to make a compelling argument, you're best served including several defensive statistics and comparing them to last year both in relative and quantitative terms. What good would providing stats dp? Don't they have to watch that games in order to be informed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 What good would providing stats dp? Don't they have to watch that games in order to be informed? Its tough to interpret the stats when you don't watch the game too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWinzChampionshipz Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Obviously I'm speaking in generalities, and I do understand your point. You're mistaken about the Carolina game though...went to halftime down 7-3 if I remember. I may have been wrong on that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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