Bills vow Doug Marrone will make them winners

[OCinBuffalo]

LOL, once again hitting on some cylinders on your soft points but missing on the objective ones entirely.

 

Tell me, what was the extent of the analysis that I ran since I did not specify? You obviously know, I'm just curious as to how. Did you hack my PC, the one that the analysis is on?

This post, in general, is the opposite of right. Therefore it is funny, to an extent. Speaking of extent...

 

The extent of your analysis is meaningless, if your method is taking 3 different teams each year, comparing them to the AFCE, and assuming that this is going to generate a meaningful statistic, when it comes to "toughness of division". Comparison of divisions does that, not comparison of teams, some teams, some times.

Otherwise, quite right, and in terms of playoff futility, the AFCE after the Pats ranks the worst in the league during the Brady era. That easy task you can go handle yourself.

 

Compare the playoff relevance of the Jets, Fins, and Bills to the worst three teams in any other division, and you'll see a big part of exactly what I'm talking about.

Yeah, I'll get right on handling tasks...that are? If I believed you did something that was "mathematically proven"(incidentally, I don't, not even a little bit) I believe you would have stumbled upon the reality that it is the AFC West who is the worst at wildcard playoff appeareances, since 2000, by doing nothing more than: counting. Yes, that great and ancient mathematic technique that can be done...on one's fingers and toes.

 

So, how can the AFC East be the worst...when amazingly, even with losing to the Pats as much as you say they have, they've still found a way to qualify for the playoffs more times than the AFC West has, since 2000? Logic is a pain, isn't it? It destroys both mathematically proven, and, magically proven things, as if they were no different.

 

But, logic isn't done with you yet: How can the AFC South the same # of wildcard playoff apperances as the AFC East, since 2000, if the AFC East is as horrible as you claim? Hey dammit! I thought this was all mathematically proven! What is happening here? (The AFC North has 10. Now we're talking right? )Wrong.

NFC West 4

NFC South 5

NFC North 11

NFC East 10

 

So, a random list of which the AFC East is at neither the top, nor the bottom of, and this....is mathematically proving what?

Otherwise, in another part of that, put the Pats in another division and then subtract 2 wins per season and see if they still look as impressive.

 

Honestly, am I really arguing this with you.

"Subtract 2 wins per season"? What do we add in their place? Losses? Passes?

 

In wonder, if we put the Texans in the AFC North, and the subtracted 2 wins...what would happen. How about we put the Ravens in the AFC South and do the same.

 

 

This is just hilarious now. This is no longer about making a case for the AFCE...this is now about making a case for affordable mental health services, whereas before it was about adult literacy. Perhaps both....as long as it can be mathematically proven, of course.

 

[ChevyVanMiller]

So glad someone posted this article. I read it yesterday and thought that if nothing else the team has a vision - probably for the first time since the Polian/Butler era.

 

It might not amount to anything, but I think we've all seen what having no team vision has amounted to.

[CodeMonkey]

I'm sure Russ Brandons public opinion for the last 13 years has been that the coach of the day was going to make the team winners.

He wants to sell tickets, particularly seasons for gods sake. Do you really expect him to say that the Bills are going to suck this season so you are better off holding onto your money for a couple more years?

 

When knowledgeable people who have no stake in the Bills organization say that kind of stuff it has some meaning. But even that isn't guaranteed to be correct, I refer you to last season as an example.

 

The season isn't very far off now. In just a few weeks we will begin to know what this season will look like.

[JohnC]

My original hunch of it not being more than half of that is correct.

 

OK, since 2000, meaning since Williams took over followed by Mularkey, Jauron, and Gailey, under Donahoe, Levy, and Nix ...

 

Of the 192 games they've played, 96 (exactly half) have been against teams with winning records.

 

The Bills are 14-82 (.146) against those teams.

 

6 of those 14 wins were against teams that finished 9-7

 

10 of those 14 wins were against teams that finished 9-7 or 10-6

 

Only 4 of those wins were against teams that finished 11-5 or better. Of those 4 wins, one was against Indy in week 17 when they were playing scrubs led by Painter for half the game. Another was that 2003 win over the Pats 31-0 to start the season before losing to them by the same score in week 17 and finishing 6-10, and another was also over the Pats in 2011.

 

Outside the division they were 5-47 (.096) against teams with winning records. They beat the 9-7 Seahawks in '04 and 9-7 Skins in '07, the 10-6 Chiefs in '05, and the 11-5 Bengals in '05 besides the aforementioned week 17 game vs. the Colts.

 

Over those 12 years they're 23-51 (.311) in the divsion and 51-67 (.432) outside the division.

 

They're 3-32 (.086) against teams outside the division that were 10-6 or better.

 

Within the division they were 9-36 (.200) against teams with winning records.

 

Against teams that were 6-10 or worse the Bills are 43-17 (.717)

 

Against teams that were 4-12 or worse they were 24-5 (.828)

 

FWIW

 

Thanks for the research. Terrific effort. I can't say that it is surprisingly bad because it isn't a surprise to me. The Bills have been such long-term losers that not only have they become irrelevant but they also became the invisible franchise in a high profile sport. Sad, very sad.

 

One frequent poster believes that this descent into gut wrenching mediocrity is the fans fault. LOL

There are a number of Wilson apologists who believe that he has been an enlightened owner for this bad luck franchise. LOL

[tennesseeboy]

not for nothing....but let's win a few games before we get all happy.

[JohnC]

not for nothing....but let's win a few games before we get all happy.

 

I don't believe that this season the Bills are going to win more games than they lose. That doesn't mean that they can't have a successful season. If the rookie qb demonstrates that he is a legitimate franchise qb and the young players, mostly this years rookie class, play well then I will be more than satisfied.

 

The issue isn't one of lowering one's standards so much as doing things right and moving forward. There are a lot of prior personnel mistakes that need to be addressed. This year's team can be better yet still not have it reflected by its record because of the tougher schedule. But starting the process of getting better is more encouraging than meandering back and forth and going nowhere.

[eball]

This trainwreck of a thread exemplifies everything that is wrong with the "realists" who frequent TSW. They don't even understand the point of the article. This isn't a piece about Brandon trying to market his team and sell hope; the author isn't a Bills fan and has no dog in the fight. It's a discussion about the behind-the-scenes efforts the Bills' front office has made to change the way they do things since Ralph officially relinquished power. Everyone can draw his or her own conclusions about whether they'll be successful, but it's not even any fun to read through the thread because of how ridiculous it has become.

 

It's also incredibly ironic, because the "realists" claim they are beaten down whenever they make a negative comment, yet those same realists jump all over themselves to post negative comments in threads that don't warrant them.

 

There should be two ongoing pinned threads on this board entitled, "front office decisions you like" and "front office decisions you don't like" so the "realists" and "homers" alike can argue to their hearts' content.

[tennesseeboy]

I don't believe that this season the Bills are going to win more games than they lose. That doesn't mean that they can't have a successful season. If the rookie qb demonstrates that he is a legitimate franchise qb and the young players, mostly this years rookie class, play well then I will be more than satisfied.

 

The issue isn't one of lowering one's standards so much as doing things right and moving forward. There are a lot of prior personnel mistakes that need to be addressed. This year's team can be better yet still not have it reflected by its record because of the tougher schedule. But starting the process of getting better is more encouraging than meandering back and forth and going nowhere.

Excellent post. I couldn't agree more. I could see Manuel getting better, the line jelling, the defense getting better over time and we still get six or seven wins. I'd be okay with that. I'm just saying I want to see performance on the field, from the players AND from the coaches. I'd love to see a winning season, and am not ruling that out...but I'll be happy with significant improvement.

[GG]

This trainwreck of a thread exemplifies everything that is wrong with the "realists" who frequent TSW. They don't even understand the point of the article. This isn't a piece about Brandon trying to market his team and sell hope; the author isn't a Bills fan and has no dog in the fight. It's a discussion about the behind-the-scenes efforts the Bills' front office has made to change the way they do things since Ralph officially relinquished power. Everyone can draw his or her own conclusions about whether they'll be successful, but it's not even any fun to read through the thread because of how ridiculous it has become.

 

It's also incredibly ironic, because the "realists" claim they are beaten down whenever they make a negative comment, yet those same realists jump all over themselves to post negative comments in threads that don't warrant them.

 

There should be two ongoing pinned threads on this board entitled, "front office decisions you like" and "front office decisions you don't like" so the "realists" and "homers" alike can argue to their hearts' content.

 

Actually, the realists fully understand the point of the piece, which was orchestrated by the Bills PR department. I'm sure you would have the same opinion if the article was penned by Scott Berchtold and not Les Carpenter.

[OCinBuffalo]

Actually, the realists fully understand the point of the piece, which was orchestrated by the Bills PR department. I'm sure you would have the same opinion if the article was penned by Scott Berchtold and not Les Carpenter.

Dude...what "realists" are you referring to, in this thread, that would have the abstract thinking skills necessary to figure that out?

 

Perhaps some of the less boisterous? Maybe. But, given what I've seen thus far? I'm pretty sure you have the wrong reading group here.

 

You might want to try the group that doesn't have the picture of the bear and the piglet on their books. That's the other thread, 2 doors down.

 

[GG]

Dude...what "realists" are you referring to, in this thread, that would have the abstract thinking skills necessary to figure that out?

 

Perhaps some of the less boisterous? Maybe. But, given what I've seen thus far? I'm pretty sure you have the wrong reading group here.

 

You might want to try the group that doesn't have the picture of the bear and the piglet on their books. That's the other thread, 2 doors down.

 

 

What are you babbling about now?

 

I was referring to the realists eball was calling out in his post. Ask him what he meant by realists.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

So glad someone posted this article. I read it yesterday and thought that if nothing else the team has a vision - probably for the first time since the Polian/Butler era.

 

It might not amount to anything, but I think we've all seen what having no team vision has amounted to.

 

I am also quite glad to see this article ... some real nice tidbits about the coaching search and how we got Pettine to come here.

 

Funny that this very interesting article comes to most of us by way of Yahoo from a guy that I was previously unfamiliar with (but will now be sure to follow on twitter). All we get from the mostly boxed-out TBN crew (except beat guy Mark Gaughan, with whom I have no issue) is another rehash of Mario and the 'drama' he has created. Keen observers of Sully's tactics also surely noticed that he was careful to add in the convenient little hedge to his bet by slipping in a line to the effect of "he might even produce double digit sacks again" ... but whine, whine, whine. And Mario is the drama queen?

 

This is why I have grown to love twitter ... customize your feed, find guys like Les Carpenter, and filter out or ignore the nonsense with no problem whatsoever. If you are active on twitter, and don't follow at least three of four hundred interesting accounts, I think you are squandering one of the most powerful tools of the 21st century - an instant source of worldwide news information.

 

It is also probably TBN's worst nightmare going forward, especially since it seems like many of their ace writers enjoy acting like total douchebags on it.

[OCinBuffalo]

What are you babbling about now?

 

I was referring to the realists eball was calling out in his post. Ask him what he meant by realists.

Dude, you show up half-cocked in the middle of this thread, not realizing that we've already established who the "realists" are here, and I'm babbling? You're out of context, sir.

 

I refuse to ask eball anything, until you agree to mathematically prove something. Something that looks nice, and is not too expensive. Then, you will prove something else mathematically, and place it next to the other one, only slightly higher so you get the 2-level effect, with a little path running down the middle.

[PromoTheRobot]

Maybe this is how Bills news should go?

 

 

BUFFALO (AP) - Doug Marrone announced that he is giving up on the 2013 season of the Buffalo Bills only two weeks into his first training camp.

 

Marrone said he came to his decision after reading a fan website called "Two Bills Drive" and several columns written by Jerry Sullivan.

 

"If I knew the Bills haven't made the playoffs for 13 straight seasons I never would have took this job" said Marrone. "This franchise is doomed."

 

Marrone explained his oversight on the fact he never paid attention to the Bills before. Like most NFL fans, Marrone had no idea how bad the Bills were.

 

"I mean 13 years, jeez...that's a long time to suck" said Marrone, adding that once a team is bad that long there is no hope of improving.

 

Marrone started reading Two Bills Drive to get a feel for what Bills fans were thinking. While the site is usually filled with mindless Pollyanna rantings from posters drunk on Kool-aid, Marrone did manage to find some astute "realists" who knew the awful truth.

 

"I'm like the fifth coach they've had here and nothing ever changes. That's spooky. It's like the team is cursed or something."

 

Marrone added that those harsh posters on Two Bills Drive woke him up to the cold hard truth that it's better to give up than to fight fate with the Bills.

 

"I told the players to grab their crap and go home. Hug your kids or something. Get drunk. That's what me and the coaches plan to do."

 

Bills CEO Russ Brandon admitted that he never told Marrone about the 13 year playoff drought during their conversations in January. "I'm just trying to keep a team on the field until the old man kicks off" said Brandon. "Then it's HELLO HOLLYWOOD!"

 

 

 

PTR

Edited August 5, 2013 by PromoTheRobot

[K-9]

Finally got a chance to read the article. I was struck by how much Russ Brandon sounds like Ted Black when he describes his and Pegula's philosophy. So I'll steal a line from Black and say, after reading that article, Marrone doesn't do push-ups; he pulls the earth towards him.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Maybe this is how Bills news should go?

 

 

 

 

PTR

 

Outstanding! This could serve as the manifesto for Team Storm Cloud.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[GG]

I refuse to ask eball anything, until you agree to mathematically prove something. Something that looks nice, and is not too expensive. Then, you will prove something else mathematically, and place it next to the other one, only slightly higher so you get the 2-level effect, with a little path running down the middle.

 

This is how you prove that you're not babbling?

[OCinBuffalo]

This is how you prove that you're not babbling?

Yes. That is precisely how.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Maybe this is how Bills news should go?

 

 

 

 

PTR

 

Someone get this man a Pulitzer

[Tony P]

I'm not through the thread yet, but I don't see any attacks. If you feel that you or someone else is being attacked please use the report function.

 

 

http://forums.twobil...r-game-face-on/

 

 

http://forums.twobil...r-game-face-on/

 

 

http://forums.twobil...r-game-face-on/

 

What is that you are you implying sir?

[Beerball]

 

 

I don't believe that this season the Bills are going to win more games than they lose.

Nor do I.

 

 

 

What is that you are you implying sir?

That's pretty obvious, isn't it? We've bashed the media up one side and down the other in thread after thread. That has gotten old.

[CodeMonkey]

Maybe this is how Bills news should go?

 

 

 

 

PTR

Well that is as meaningful as yet another article about how Brandon thinks his coach dejour is going to make the Bills into winners.

I think Marrone has a much better chance of doing that than the two before him. But if anyone thinks Brandon making public statements like that isn't about marketing I have a bridge and some swamp land for sale.

[K-9]

Well that is as meaningful as yet another article about how Brandon thinks his coach dejour is going to make the Bills into winners.

I think Marrone has a much better chance of doing that than the two before him. But if anyone thinks Brandon making public statements like that isn't about marketing I have a bridge and some swamp land for sale.

 

And the problem with selling the team is what, exactly? It's not like any of us are forced to buy.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Well that is as meaningful as yet another article about how Brandon thinks his coach dejour is going to make the Bills into winners.

I think Marrone has a much better chance of doing that than the two before him. But if anyone thinks Brandon making public statements like that isn't about marketing I have a bridge and some swamp land for sale.

 

Would you say that any positive story about the Bills would simply be marketing and PR spin?

 

Is it possible for someone to write an article on the Bills based on legitimate optimism that some people here wouldn't dismiss as bs?

[reddogblitz]

Coach Marrone was not my choice. But so far so good, right? 0-0 tied for best record in the NFL. We'll see what it looks like 2 months from now.

 

Based on everything I've been told by the Bills and many on TBD, we should be winning. No excuses offered, none accepted.

 

Go BILLS !!!

[BUNCH OF MULARKEY]

Must admit I like what I see so far from Doug and his staff so far. How can ya not. Enthusiastic. Up tempo. Even the honesty and lack of b.s. (examples- how he's unhappy with the guard competition, his response to the Mario badgering)

However twenty years or so of unrealized optimism have soured me somewhat.

So I'm holding out until I see what kind of game manager Doug is when the live bullets are flying.

Lets face it we've been through this before. Wade was a good dc horrible game manager. Chan good oc terrible game manager. Last year just made me sick watching chan time and time again make poor decisions during crunch time. Punting from the 45. Not reviewing huge turnover plays that were obvious on tv. I can go on.

I'm ready for some more last second gut wrenching stupidity losses! My tolerace is back up. Let the season begin!

[Tipster19]

I respect when someone stands on their convictions.

 

Conviction-Our convictions determine our conduct. They motivate us to take a stand and to act according to our values.

 

-Our Convictions Determine Conduct

August 28, 2011 By Rick Hayden

 

 

“A belief is something you will argue about. A conviction is something you will die for!”

 

-Howard Hendricks

 

[Keukasmallies]

Just imagine all this passion played out for something that really really mattered....

[GG]

 

 

Would you say that any positive story about the Bills would simply be marketing and PR spin?

 

Is it possible for someone to write an article on the Bills based on legitimate optimism that some people here wouldn't dismiss as bs?

 

Of course it's possible and that's what we saw from Kirwan and King pieces last week. That's not the case with the Yahoo article however. It's a pure pr piece.

[8-8 Forever?]

PITTSFORD, N.Y. – It was a bold thing the president and CEO of the Buffalo Bills said on the practice field at St. John Fisher College the other day. Russ Brandon hadn't meant his words to sound audacious. But he was overtaken with this ebullience, a sensation that hasn't exploded inside him in so many years. And as he talked about the new football coach he has hired – a man named Doug Marrone – he grew more and more effusive about the man's genius until the words just blurted out.

 

"This guy will win!' Brandon declared.

 

Told this was a presumptuous statement, Brandon stared hard at his questioner, eyes serious and repeated himself.

 

"He will win," he said. "I believe it."

 

http://sports.yahoo....-200622445.html

Well, maybe they will. This is kind of Russ's last chance. He has to go all- in with Marrone. Really nothing to lose. If the HC fails again, Brandon will go with him this time. and Win or lose, new ownership fires them all eventually anyway, so what the heck might as well go all - in.

[CodeMonkey]

Would you say that any positive story about the Bills would simply be marketing and PR spin?

 

Is it possible for someone to write an article on the Bills based on legitimate optimism that some people here wouldn't dismiss as bs?

When someone non biased and knowledgeable says they believe the Bills will be good (or bad) to me it has some meaning. When the head marketing person for the Bills says he believes that his new coach is going to turn the team into winners I think it is 100% marketing BS.

 

And the problem with selling the team is what, exactly? It's not like any of us are forced to buy.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Nothing. Someone has to do it. I was just stating my opinion that Brandon making that statement is nothing more than selling the team.

Edited August 6, 2013 by CodeMonkey

[K-9]

...Nothing. Someone has to do it. I was just stating my opinion that Brandon making that statement is nothing more than selling the team.

 

I can appreciate that. Is it possible for Brandon to make a genuine statement of enthusiasm for any aspect of the team without sounding like he's just "selling the team?" Are "selling the team" and speaking with unbridled optimism mutually exclusive concepts?

 

Or does Brandon really think the Bills are terrible, Marrone sucks, there is no hope and he better dress up the pig as best he can so he can just fool people? As if any of the cynics that follow the team can be fooled.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

So Les Carpenter is just some tool for Brandon to manipulate?

 

I thought he was a respected NFL writer.

 

Of course it's possible and that's what we saw from Kirwan and King pieces last week. That's not the case with the Yahoo article however. It's a pure pr piece.

 

I'd be interested to know how Kirwan and King's pieces differ from Carpenter's piece.

 

Not arguing, just asking.

[GG]

So Les Carpenter is just some tool for Brandon to manipulate?

 

I thought he was a respected NFL writer.

 

 

 

I'd be interested to know how Kirwan and King's pieces differ from Carpenter's piece.

 

Not arguing, just asking.

 

I also thought that Carpenter was a respected NFL writer. Perhaps he still is. But after doing a little checking, he has dual roles at Yahoo! Sports. In one, he's an NFL columnist, in the other, he's an "expert" on football for Yahoo's unit that helps PR departments push their stories.

 

Here's the web description:

 

Yahoo! Experts are influencers, columnists, journalists, and bloggers who cover a wide range of topics, including news, politics, sports, finance, digital lifestyle, parenting, relationships, fashion, beauty, healthy living, and more for Yahoo!. They are available to provide expert commentary on stories and segments you're developing.

 

More from Yahoo: "If you're a PR professional and would like to send us a pitch idea, please contact ..."

 

The reason I decided to research his credentials is that I hadn't seen him do a lot of Bills pieces before, but he had a lot of detail surrounding the Marrone & Pettine hires. A lot of that detail could only be provided by the team. After finding out his dual roles at Yahoo, I connected the dots. You may choose to believe that he wrote the article on his own, without a lot of help from Scott Berchtold, but that's not how I'm seeing the piece.

 

It is highly ironic that the same people who are slamming local Buffalo press are falling head over heels over a PR puff piece. This is not new in the news business, and most people don't realize why a nice human interest story about a local car dealership would show up in the paper. But usually that would show up in the lifestyle section of the paper. I think that Yahoo is really stretching the standards of newsgathering when they combine the jobs of their columnists and experts and tag it as a sports story. But hey, people got an independent confirmation that the Bills President is optimistic about his new coach. He has a vision and a starategy now.

Edited August 6, 2013 by GG

[CodeMonkey]

I can appreciate that. Is it possible for Brandon to make a genuine statement of enthusiasm for any aspect of the team without sounding like he's just "selling the team?" Are "selling the team" and speaking with unbridled optimism mutually exclusive concepts?

 

Or does Brandon really think the Bills are terrible, Marrone sucks, there is no hope and he better dress up the pig as best he can so he can just fool people? As if any of the cynics that follow the team can be fooled.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I have no idea what he thinks. But regardless of what he really thinks, what you hear are things that will sell more tickets (that's his job after all).

[PromoTheRobot]

I have no idea what he thinks. But regardless of what he really thinks, what you hear are things that will sell more tickets (that's his job after all).

God forbid Brandon is successful selling tickets so the Bills remain viable.

 

PTR

[papazoid]

 

God forbid Brandon is successful selling tickets so the Bills remain viable.

 

PTR

 

HomerTheRobot your outlook is appreciated and much needed !!

[eball]

Are we so jaded now that we research every possible angle to support a conclusion any positive or optimistic piece of journalism is somehow deceitful and/or a marketing ploy?

 

[papazoid]

Are we so jaded now that we research every possible angle to support a conclusion any positive or optimistic piece of journalism is somehow deceitful and/or a marketing ploy?

 

 

link ? (laffin)

[GG]

Are we so jaded now that we research every possible angle to support a conclusion any positive or optimistic piece of journalism is somehow deceitful and/or a marketing ploy?

 

 

Are we so rosy eyed optimistic that we seek to validate our views from yellow journalism?

[eball]

Are we so rosy eyed optimistic that we seek to validate our views from yellow journalism?

 

Ah yes, the supposed "realistic" viewpoint we all know and love. I don't know of anyone walking around with blinders on -- I just see a large group of fans who are starved for a winner and want to feel good about what's happening, and a smaller (but more vocal) group who insist upon tamping down enthusiasm every chance they get.

 

I know how I want to live my life.