TC in St. Louis Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 It hit me like a sack of bowling balls.....the reason we have tanked for so long is that we have not hired a good coach in years. We have talent on this squad. We can win with a good coach. Chan Gailey was an old guy who tried to do too much, and ended up accomplishing very little. This is a common problem when head coaches try to be coordinators. They lose the overall focus on the team. Where is he now? Unemployed. Jauron? Had all the enthusiasm of Joe Friday. Pleasant, ineffective. Sucked. Greggo? Psycho. Maybe the reason we've sucked for so long is that we have not had a good coach since Wade left. Maybe this guy Marrone who revived a horrible Syracuse team....maybe this is exactly where he is supposed to be, and he will finally bring success to the Buffalo Bills. He expects to win. That is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I'm of the opinion that it's both columns. We've had crappy coaches. And we have had (and probably still have) a relatively weak roster. We have a few studs, don't get me wrong, but we miss good/solid players at a few starting positions and in depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I'm of the opinion that it's both columns. We've had crappy coaches. And we have had (and probably still have) a relatively weak roster. We have a few studs, don't get me wrong, but we miss good/solid players at a few starting positions and in depth. The talent during the Jauron years was an absolute abomination. Jauron could have won with last year's squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Horrible drafting, particularly in the first round, surely didn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Like some others, I think it's a combination. Jauron had Perry Fewell as his DC and Bobby April for ST. The defense and special teams did not have bad coaching. They just didn't have enough good players. The offense, however, lacked both a good QB and good OC. "Psycho" Greggo might have been a wacko but he'd still be a DC somewhere, if not a head coach, if not for the Saints scandal. Wanny, on the other hand, deserves to be out of the NFL, not due to rules violations but because of basic ineptitude. But with Chan as the de facto OC, the offense wasn't terrible despite Fitz for a QB. With both coaches and players, we've been hit or miss. And judging by our won-less record, it's been more miss. Hopefully Whaley-Marrone turns out to be a winning combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Like some others, I think it's a combination. Jauron had Perry Fewell as his DC and Bobby April for ST. The defense and special teams did not have bad coaching. They just didn't have enough good players. The offense, however, lacked both a good QB and good OC. "Psycho" Greggo might have been a wacko but he'd still be a DC somewhere, if not a head coach, if not for the Saints scandal. Wanny, on the other hand, deserves to be out of the NFL, not due to rules violations but because of basic ineptitude. But with Chan as the de facto OC, the offense wasn't terrible despite Fitz for a QB. With both coaches and players, we've been hit or miss. And judging by our won-less record, it's been more miss. Hopefully Whaley-Marrone turns out to be a winning combination. Long story short: we haven't had coaches good enough to overcome our lack of player talent...and visa versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 "Maybe?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC in St. Louis Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 Greggo is a DC at Tennessee. He just overnighted an autographed super bowl hat to the guy here who sold him a Tahoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I'm going to disagree on Chan, sort of. If he had even the slightest amount of defense played during his tenure, and a fractionally better QB, he's probably STILL your head coach going into this year. You'd be unemployed too if you were handed the keys to 2 1985 AMC Pacers to pick from as your QBs when your division features one screaming red Lamborghini that throttles you twice a year, almost without the need to even look at game film. Ohh they used to pretend in the media to "prepare" for the Bills, but in reality, they were really out playing Bingo with the Kiwanis club all week. I could even toss in a receiver or two, but we all know they way Chan handled CJ ultimately was the popular scape goat reason he was publicly dismissed, along with some honestly bad game time decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Our coaches have been Rockne, Shula, Landry, and Belicheck all rolled into one compared to the dearth of QB talent we've had. That is BY FAR the single greatest contributor to our lack of success. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 (edited) Maybe the reason we've sucked for so long is that we have not had a good coach since Wade left. Maybe this guy Marrone who revived a horrible Syracuse team....maybe this is exactly where he is supposed to be, and he will finally bring success to the Buffalo Bills. He expects to win. That is a good thing. This whole thing about "reviving a Syracuse team" is massively overrated. Did those claiming that think that just maybe Greg Robinson was one of the worst coaches that SU ever had? Marrone wasn't better than Pasqualoni or MacPherson, not that either was anything close to Nick Saban, just sayin'. Since when does going .500 w/ two very minor bowl appearances featuring two of four losing seasons and only marginally winning ones after that with most wins primarily against nothing teams, particularly in the bowl games, and pretty much completely insignificant ones in their inaugural and third years, while playing in one of the least competitive football conferences in the FBS qualify as "reviving" anything? I'm not saying that Marrone's going to fail, but the odds are against him being this great coach that we all want. Right now his future is directly tied to Manuel. If Kolb starts the season then next year will end up being the rebuilding season that this season should be. But this talk about the future being now and winning now makes me think he's in over his head too. This team isn't going anywhere with Kolb at QB. There's not an objective fan in this forum that thinks that this team can even be .500 much less make the playoffs. Any talk of such merely indicates that either it's all made-for-media hot air or that he simply doesn't know what he's talking about. Time will tell, no need for us to predict what will happen, and we surely can't do anything about it, but this same level of enthusiasm existed for all of the aforementioned coaches except for Gailey although it was still positive there initially. If Manuel isn't starting soon this year then Marrone's shot himself in the foot. Even if Manuel does start, he's going to have to prove that he's good. If they have to draft another QB in '15 then Marrone's likely going to be finished on this team. This also precludes Wilson passing and Marrone making the cut of the new GM and owner but that's a different matter altogether and assumes that the team won't move too. Horrible drafting, particularly in the first round, surely didn't help. Another great point. Whaley's been the #2 guy all along right behind Nix and now in his fourth season, so why has he gotten a pass from everyone in that way? Everyone talks about his big accolades in Pittsburgh when he was even more of an assistant, yet here over the last four seasons with more power and influence all of a sudden none of the bad decisions he had anything to do with. Whatever Edited July 30, 2013 by TaskersGhost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Ralph just wants a competitive team which is like shooting for a C then when they miss the mark with a C- or D+ they wonder what happened - other teams are shooting for a A+ (Superbowl) and when they miss the mark with a B+ they still make the Playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 @TaskersGhost -- if anything, the job Marrone did at 'Cuse is underrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daryls61 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I am liking Marrone so far. Seems like he has a solid presence about him unlike Chan and Jauron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC in St. Louis Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 Chan was three bad calls from having a 9-7 team. And we know he'd still be here, along with Buddy and Fitz. So his poor playcalling cost him the job, and changed the future for the team. I was a little miffed when Marrone was first hired, but then I heard the normally negative pundits saying this was a great hire. And since then he has shown great leadership. I hope he was the right guy. I agree with the poster who wondered why we gave Whaley a free pass on those poor drafts. But I guess ultimately the choices and decisions were made by Butty Nix. Marrone seems to have chosen good coordinators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 "Maybe?" Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 What about Mularkey? He was the closest to bringing the team to a playoff birth if it wasn't for the lug Bledsoe screwing up the coin toss and losing against a Pitt's scrubs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dascottbills28 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 It doesnt matter if Vince Lombardi was our coach during the past 10-15 years, we havent had a qb worth a damn. Unless you have the Ravens 2000 defense, which we never came close to having, then you need a good qb to win in this league.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 It doesnt matter if Vince Lombardi was our coach during the past 10-15 years, we havent had a qb worth a damn. Unless you have the Ravens 2000 defense, which we never came close to having, then you need a good qb to win in this league.... Bledsoe was good enough to win with, especially with a good OC that we had. Our defense was horrible. The mistake Mularkey made was in retaining Greggo's defensive coordinator. If he could have convinced Dick LeBeau to stay, I think that team makes the playoffs, irrespective of the result against the Steelers in the season finale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Honestly, if you had Jauron as DC and Gailey as OC, that is the foundation of a good coaching staff. They both got the most out of their talent a lot of the times. Still, the bottom line is it is all about the QB. See Belichick's record before Brady. Both coaches failed to get that qb & as result got rightfully fired. If Manuel is the guy, Whaley is a better GM & Marrone will be a successful coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dascottbills28 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Bledsoe was good enough to win with, especially with a good OC that we had. Our defense was horrible. The mistake Mularkey made was in retaining Greggo's defensive coordinator. If he could have convinced Dick LeBeau to stay, I think that team makes the playoffs, irrespective of the result against the Steelers in the season finale. Bledsoe was a below average qb that year go take a look at his 2004 numbers. Our defense that year was ranked #2 as well. Bottom line, we need much better qb play and from there, everything else will start to fall into place. Look at how bad the colts were without Manning in 2011 and then they get Luck last year and win 11 games and make the playoffs. It is a qb driven league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Maybe our coaches were subpar and our players were mediocre because our front office was pretty bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorom Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 (edited) just go back and look at our pre-Nix roster, then take the time to realize that before Nix retired this year we had a 90% roster turnover since he took over. That's a huge endeavor. Most teams never gut that much of roster So Yeah the roster was that bad at the end of 2009 http://en.wikipedia....on#Final_roster BUT QB position and coaching makes a big difference, and Chan sucked any wind out of the Bills sails the last few years, as did our lack of a bonafide starting QB Edited July 30, 2013 by Snorom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 (edited) its been a combination of both Gailey is unemployed by choice and i cant blame him, sit back and get paid. Im not defending the guy bc I am not and never was a fan of his but he could get a job if he wanted to. I like Marrone and think they finally hired a legit head coach but I think this is still going to be a transition year Edited July 30, 2013 by Max997 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Ralph just wants a competitive team which is like shooting for a C then when they miss the mark with a C- or D+ they wonder what happened - other teams are shooting for a A+ (Superbowl) and when they miss the mark with a B+ they still make the Playoffs. Amen to that! @TaskersGhost -- if anything, the job Marrone did at 'Cuse is underrated. LOL Of course. Let's see what you're saying in three years. Deja vu Marrone seems to have chosen good coordinators. How do we know regarding Hackett? He never called plays in NO. Brees has done just fine without him. We don't really know yet, running an offense w the talent they had vice w what we have are two different things. As to Pettine, his defense slid while he was there. 1st to 3rd to 5th to 8th in yardage D, 1st to 6th to 20th to 20th in scoring D. I'm not saying that it's all his fault, but clearly some of it was, to argue contrarily is ridiculous. Also, Pettine did not call the plays all four years, why not? What did Ryan see to want to call it himself? These are all rose-colored glasses kinds of things. We should know more by the season's end, but this notion that the team conducted an exhaustive search as Brandon claims is disingenuous. Again, I'm not making any predictions one way or another, but there must have been 50 more qualified collegiate coaches at one level or another, many with far more relevant experience in college, and how many of them would have become good NFL coaches. I'm guessing if the answer is five then it's a lot. I'm not sold on Hackett at all. The best thing that we can say about these coaching hirings is that the team has learned not to hire proven losers or coaches that glaringly have faults. Again, the chances for any collegiate coach winning in the NFL are remote, particularly in their first few seasons. It can't be much better for college coaches that took their teams to relevant bowl games. Again, look at Saban. There's none better at college right now yet in Miami he sucked. We don't know, we simply don't know, which means it's even sillier to suggest that he's going to be good than it it is to suggest that he's not going to cut it at this level since the odds are so much more against him doing well than they are for him doing well. That's all there is to it. We should have a good idea come November, and if Kolb is starting by then, assuming that Manuel's healthy, then I think we have our answer already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Maybe our coaches were subpar and our players were mediocre because our front office was pretty bad? Maybe our front office was bad because our owner was subpar because his parents were bad and they were subpar because... GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 It doesnt matter if Vince Lombardi was our coach during the past 10-15 years, we havent had a qb worth a damn. Unless you have the Ravens 2000 defense, which we never came close to having, then you need a good qb to win in this league.... Yup, in today's NFL that's exactly right. Which is why Marrone needs to not even bother screwing around with Kolb and make sure that Manuel's in there before the October games begin. It's fine to not throw him to the wolves (Belichick in game 1) but very soon after that if he knows what's best for his future as an NFL coach he'll have Manuel in there. If Manuel "isn't ready," then the finger pointing at Whaley needs to then begin. It's BS to draft a player 16th overall in this day and age and sit him for a season or stick him into a bunch of irrelevant games in winter weather at the end of the season. This league has never been more set up to foster the passing game than it is today. I just hope that Marrone's talk about winning games now and playing the QB that gives us the best chance to win this year, a year that we'll be lucky to win 6 games, is just that, talk to keep the media off his back. Again, we'll know soon enough. Bledsoe was a below average qb that year go take a look at his 2004 numbers. Our defense that year was ranked #2 as well. Bottom line, we need much better qb play and from there, everything else will start to fall into place. Look at how bad the colts were without Manning in 2011 and then they get Luck last year and win 11 games and make the playoffs. It is a qb driven league. Yeah, but remember how everyone cheered his arrival? What you say was known before we even traded for him, yet very few people picked up on it. The ones that did were castigated for it. And more recently, remember when everyone cited Bill Walsh re: Trent Edwards and that he'd be a great one? Everyone jumped on that bandwagon too. Talk is cheap and that's all we have this time of year and particularly w this set of coaches. Marrone has no NFL track record and only a record of mediocrity in four seasons in college featuring two losing seasons. I mean when a coach is cheered for a pair of .615 seasons, the equivalent of 10-6 wrapped around a 4-8 and 5-7 season what does that say. Hackett has no experience calling plays. Honestly, what did he actually, actually, do in NO? I've already cited Pettine's trend at calling the D, his D went downhill to below average in NY. I like Marrone and think they finally hired a legit head coach but I think this is still going to be a transition year Tell Marrone that, I'm not sure he agrees. In fact, if he's telling the truth he doesn't think so. He thinks that the future is now and we need to do whatever we can to win now. A good coach has a vision and knows what he wants to do. I think it's a real reach to suggest that your chances of "winning now" are better w a rookie QB than they are w a so-so vet. Yet, what's better for the future? Why the urgency in reaching for a QB that likely would have been around for the next two, possibly three or even four picks? If his vision is winning next season and positioning the team to make the playoffs next season, who honestly believes that the best choice is to start Kolb? Not to mention, suppose Kolb starts and plays OK, not top-10 but OK, let's say average. Clearly Manuel's going to have his struggles. According to Marrone's philosophy, the QB that will be best positioned to win then next season will clearly be Kolb since no first time starter is going anywhere in this league unless the team around him is solid everywhere, something that this team is clearly not blessed to be. So he'd have to start Kolb again next season and the second-guessing begins and Manuel, a 16th overall sits. OR, he comes in, has the obvious struggles, and eh voila, QB controversy. Words mean things and if Marrone isn't simply playing the media, then I'm not sure he's really thought things thru much less has that vision that the best coaches have. After that, draw whatever conclusions you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 It hit me like a sack of bowling balls.....the reason we have tanked for so long is that we have not hired a good coach in years. We have talent on this squad. We can win with a good coach. Chan Gailey was an old guy who tried to do too much, and ended up accomplishing very little. This is a common problem when head coaches try to be coordinators. They lose the overall focus on the team. Where is he now? Unemployed. Jauron? Had all the enthusiasm of Joe Friday. Pleasant, ineffective. Sucked. Greggo? Psycho. Maybe the reason we've sucked for so long is that we have not had a good coach since Wade left. Maybe this guy Marrone who revived a horrible Syracuse team....maybe this is exactly where he is supposed to be, and he will finally bring success to the Buffalo Bills. He expects to win. That is a good thing. agreed. Wonder if Marrone could have made Losman great? (serious question) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Tell Marrone that, I'm not sure he agrees. In fact, if he's telling the truth he doesn't think so. He thinks that the future is now and we need to do whatever we can to win now. I think its awesome that he thinks that way but realistically speaking, this is going to be a transition year New coaching staff, new QBs, new systems on both sides of the ball, etc any team can surprise and contend but this is most likely a transition year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Maybe our coaches were subpar and our players were mediocre because our front office was pretty bad? That also has A LOT to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayboy54 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Normally someone would say "step back from the ledge." But in your case Ghost, I say jump. Wait until I get to the ground floor so I can see the SPLAT, but again I say JUMP!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Our defensive coaching the last few years has been abysmal. The mindset was play it safe and hope for the best. Some mediocre talent didn't even make being conservative effective. Aggressive defense works. It's disruptive and keeps the other team constantly guessing. We've certainly been guessing and confused on offense for a long time. Yes, occasionally you'll get burned running a particular blitz package. But the pluses generally outweigh the minuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Bad ownership - check Bad contract management - check Bad GM performance - check Bad Head Coaching - check Bad players - check It's unfathomable that we haven't been to the playoffs this century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 80 year old Marv Levy was the GM of this organization and he almost appointed himself as the head coach. Enough said. Brandon is the team's only hope while RW lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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