Lurker Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Its amazing how many people blow a gasket or make assumptions off a pretty standard issue negotiating move that everyone expected to happen. If we were gasket salesmen, we'd be rich... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoggyHog Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Personally, I think this says more about Whaley than Byrd. Everyone assumed he'd miss mini-camp anyway. Whaley, however, has his first big decision to make. This should set the tone for how he is going to assemble his teams in the future. Overpay a GREAT player at a position that is not of huge importance, or let a GREAT player walk and try to develop from within. Clearly this is a tough decision but we might get a glimps of how Whaley is going to handle business in the future. And when I say "not of huge importance" I know the S position is important. I'm just saying it's not QB and it's not LS. It's somewhere in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 This is the first situation that Whatley has faced like this....others were on Buddy's watch. Whatley will make his bones on this situation.....we may not see Byrd until November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 And when I say "not of huge importance" I know the S position is important. I'm just saying it's not QB and it's not LS. It's somewhere in between. LS is by far and away more important than any other position on the field. Rspecially when Sanborn is in your team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 This is the first situation that Whatley has faced like this....others were on Buddy's watch. Whatley will make his bones on this situation.....we may not see Byrd until November. which of parkers clients have sat out under the tag? Personally, I think this says more about Whaley than Byrd. Everyone assumed he'd miss mini-camp anyway. Whaley, however, has his first big decision to make. This should set the tone for how he is going to assemble his teams in the future. Overpay a GREAT player at a position that is not of huge importance, or let a GREAT player walk and try to develop from within. Clearly this is a tough decision but we might get a glimps of how Whaley is going to handle business in the future. And when I say "not of huge importance" I know the S position is important. I'm just saying it's not QB and it's not LS. It's somewhere in between. seems like putting a lot on one individual negotiation. while its an important one to get right, i dont know how much you can project based on a single unique situation with a lot of moving pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Lol he was a scout. Ed Reed? Guess you forgot Flacco's contract. SF will overpay when they want to keep LBs just wait. TB overpaid thanks for proving me right. Everyone has to overpay someone to keep them. Mike Wallace was overpaid by the Dolphins. Like I said every team does it. They let guys go to keep others Bills don't have to do that. Your phrase "everyone over pays" followed "they will probably pay to keep Byrd". In that context you couldn't be more incorrect. I guess I could understand the need to be proven "right" about an opinion on a chat board. Every one seeks validation in their own quirky way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterlaw Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 We shouldn't break the bank for a free safety. Bad for the TEAM that he is not learning the new system and gelling with new D secondary. Happy to let him sit and for the TEAM to move on if needs be. Sign him for reasonable money if we can but this salary cap money can be better spent elsewhere. I would love to get 2 first round picks for a Byrd trade but don't see anyone parting with this compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantankerous Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 You can't build a contender by overpaying players at lower impact positions either. What is an extremely strong indicator of a successful team? Turnovers. Byrd is by far the best on the team at creating them. He plays safety. How in your right mind can you say he plays a "lower impact position"? The defensive gameplan last year was atrocious every single week. I'm hoping they sign Byrd long term and build off of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauderswr80 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Its a win win for the Bills.... If he signs we have a decent player...if not...we will have solid draft picks via trade! Win win... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 This is the first situation that Whatley has faced like this....others were on Buddy's watch. Whatley will make his bones on this situation.....we may not see Byrd until November. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmac Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Where do you get that from? He's never said he didn't want to play in BLo. It seems more fans assuming that's the case because he has stayed quiet and won't sign for less. He's earned his money. Bills should pay him. Sorry, but actions speak louder than words. EJ Manuel doesn't have a contract, either, and he hasn't missed a work out. If Byrd wanted to play here, he could show some good faith and at least be in town, or maybe talk to his agent and give a little on the numbers. He is a good safety, but is he worth the top safety salary in the league? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Sorry, but actions speak louder than words. EJ Manuel doesn't have a contract, either, and he hasn't missed a work out. If Byrd wanted to play here, he could show some good faith and at least be in town, or maybe talk to his agent and give a little on the numbers. He is a good safety, but is he worth the top safety salary in the league? No. Can't even come close to comparing the two. Are you serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchmurraydowntown Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 JB's 2009 INT total is equal to his past 3 years combined, even passes defended is close for 2009 if you combine the last 3 years. That's a one year wonder to me & you don't pay him near the most money for one amazing rookie season. http://www.nfl.com/player/jairusbyrd/79899/careerstats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 EJ is insured like all highly drafted rookies. Byrd is likely insured as well, but not to the tune of the $20 mil guaranteed he's likely to get one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 If him and his agent think he is that good than the Bills should tell them to broker a trade deal that will return a 1st round draft choice. Once they see what his trade value is maybe it will be easier to reach a contract deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmac Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Can't even come close to comparing the two. Are you serious? Yes I can. When I was a master sergeant in the Air Force, I was expected to do the same things lower-ranking airmen did, and for a whole lot less money than what the Bills are offering Byrd. You want that kind of money, act the part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchmurraydowntown Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 If him and his agent think he is that good than the Bills should tell them to broker a trade deal that will return a 1st round draft choice. Once they see what his trade value is maybe it will be easier to reach a contract deal. Just don't field calls from strange phone numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Sorry, but actions speak louder than words. EJ Manuel doesn't have a contract, either, and he hasn't missed a work out. If Byrd wanted to play here, he could show some good faith and at least be in town, or maybe talk to his agent and give a little on the numbers. He is a good safety, but is he worth the top safety salary in the league? No. That sort of behavior is not part of the Parker playbook. You basically cut off all personal contact between the player and the team front office and coaching staff, and you make them sweat. Also, it keeps the player from backing down from the confrontation due to feelings of loyalty and that sort of thing. I hope the Bills have assigned what they feel is a fair contract value given Byrd's projected value to the team, and if Parker insists on more, then the Bills should stick to their guns. If a trade with strong draft choice compensation is offered, they should consider it. If he wants to play it to the point of July 15th, they should let him. If he wants to play chicken into the season, let him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Yes I can. When I was a master sergeant in the Air Force, I was expected to do the same things lower-ranking airmen did, and for a whole lot less money than what the Bills are offering Byrd. You want that kind of money, act the part. The NFL is a little different than the military. Just a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchmurraydowntown Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) The NFL is a little different than the military. Just a little. I see a few similarities, Both have a guy in charge that monitors everything you say and do while acting without any boundaries. Both have powerful armies of people that go out and collect money using the law & both cannot be touched via anti-trust laws, allowing them to basically print money without being taxed. Edited June 10, 2013 by mitchmurraydowntown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrdsbyrds Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 lol absolutely ridiculous. He's led the AFC in INT in 2 of his 4 seasons, but yeah he doesn't anticipate well and he's slow. simply ridiculous,he is one of the top 3 young safety's in the league. you have no idea what you are talking about. the guy single handily won us 2 games last year with great interceptions in the waning minutes of the game,get your facts straight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterlaw Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 $6.9m seems a whole lot of money for a free safety who averages 3 INTs a season over the last 3 years. Tell you what why don't we just say $1m base and $0.5m per win. If Byrd is that good he might get paid $10.5m. Then everyone would be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantankerous Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 JB's 2009 INT total is equal to his past 3 years combined, even passes defended is close for 2009 if you combine the last 3 years. That's a one year wonder to me & you don't pay him near the most money for one amazing rookie season. http://www.nfl.com/p...899/careerstats That post shows how little you know about football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchmurraydowntown Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) By That post shows how little you know about football. If the management caves everytime a player holds out, more will hold out. The Bills gave him a very generous, all guaranteed cash offer. If he plays this season & makes a huge impression, he'll be holding a huge contract. The past 3 years performancse have been good but not rookie year amazing good, so which player do we pay ?? The rookie Byrd guy or the past 3 year guy, using the data we have ?? You give him a huge raise & see if he deserves more, based on his play. Byrd's trade-value is also about as high as it can get right now as well, I'd probably try to pick a great LB on another team to trade for him for instead of a pick. We really need help at LB right now, more than probably any other position. I know I'll get the "player for player swaps rarely happen", but so does the possibility of other teams improving their secondary. Edited June 11, 2013 by mitchmurraydowntown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantankerous Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 By If the management caves everytime a player holds out, more will hold out. The Bills gave him a very generous, all guaranteed cash offer. If he plays this season & makes a huge impression, he'll be holding a huge contract. The past 3 years performancse have been good but not rookie year amazing good, so which player do we pay ?? The rookie Byrd guy or the past 3 year guy, using the data we have ?? If you decide how valuable a player is based solely on stats, you don't know what you're talking about. He had less passes defensed because QBs aren't throwing his way as often. He's the best tackler on the team, creates the most turnovers, is good against the run, etc...You're a fool if you think any player wants the franchise tag, especially at a young age like Byrd. The Bills are stupid for even letting it get this far...they should've signed him last year and avoided the franchise tag altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchmurraydowntown Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 If you decide how valuable a player is based solely on stats, you don't know what you're talking about. He had less passes defensed because QBs aren't throwing his way as often. He's the best tackler on the team, creates the most turnovers, is good against the run, etc...You're a fool if you think any player wants the franchise tag, especially at a young age like Byrd. The Bills are stupid for even letting it get this far...they should've signed him last year and avoided the franchise tag altogether. I agree with the last part, this should of been handled earlier than now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 If Byrd is let go, can we at least consider the notable post-Jauron castoffs before we determine whether or not the FO knows what it's doing: Lee Evans Andy Levitre Paul Pozluszny Donte Whitner Aaron Maybin Aside from Lynch, whose complicated situation has been hashed and rehashed to the point of oblivion, and aside from Levitre--whom has yet to play a non-Bills snap--what evidence is there to suggest that the Bills organization doesn't know what they're missing when they let talent walk? Am I missing a player or two? Because it looks to me that if the Bills don't think he's worth keeping...then he's not worth keeping. To date, their evaluations have shown this to be true. So your point really is that anyone we let go must suck because all of the players on this team suck. Even though some go elsewhere and suck less than they did here, your opinion is that they suck. Whitner started on the NFC Championship team and went to the Super Bowl, but obviously he sucked because he is no longer here. Poz has done well in Jax and played well here when used properly. The truth is this franchise has a history going back to the 60's of abusing players and not paying them squat. Cookie is prime example. OJ had to bend Ralph over the table a couple of times to get what he deserved, he was never over paid. Everyone wants to make an exception about Lynch because he only sucked here because the fans rode him into the ground. He was young and immature but in reality he is a beast and I wish we had him over Spiller and Freddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchmurraydowntown Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) So your point really is that anyone we let go must suck because all of the players on this team suck. Even though some go elsewhere and suck less than they did here, your opinion is that they suck. Whitner started on the NFC Championship team and went to the Super Bowl, but obviously he sucked because he is no longer here. Poz has done well in Jax and played well here when used properly. The truth is this franchise has a history going back to the 60's of abusing players and not paying them squat. Cookie is prime example. OJ had to bend Ralph over the table a couple of times to get what he deserved, he was never over paid. Everyone wants to make an exception about Lynch because he only sucked here because the fans rode him into the ground. He was young and immature but in reality he is a beast and I wish we had him over Spiller and Freddy. A few people Lynch ran over with his car / almost ran over might beg to differ, he had a poor character when he was here. Edited June 11, 2013 by mitchmurraydowntown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 What is an extremely strong indicator of a successful team? Turnovers. Byrd is by far the best on the team at creating them. He plays safety. How in your right mind can you say he plays a "lower impact position"? The defensive gameplan last year was atrocious every single week. I'm hoping they sign Byrd long term and build off of him. Buzzzz wrong. Thanks for playing. We were looking for wins. Yes wins is the strongest indicator of a successful team. Also I can VERY easily say free safety can be a low impact position. The difference in impact between an average free safety and an excellent just adds up to less than many other positions, QB, WR, MLB, OLB, LT, RT, DE, to name a few. To further demonstrate the lack of impact, Byrd was voted all pro and invited to the Probowl as one of the best in the league, while the bills d was a concensus bottom 5 defense in the league. Two words...Mark Kelso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph W. Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Your phrase "everyone over pays" followed "they will probably pay to keep Byrd". In that context you couldn't be more incorrect. I guess I could understand the need to be proven "right" about an opinion on a chat board. Every one seeks validation in their own quirky way. Hey you were the one agreeing with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 lol absolutely ridiculous. He's led the AFC in INT in 2 of his 4 seasons, but yeah he doesn't anticipate well and he's slow. I could give a crap about his season stats. When you watch the guy play, he's average to good. Not great, and not nearly disruptive enough for my liking. Byrd had a great rookie year. -Fell flat the next. With the exception of a few lucky breaks, he's pretty much worked his way back to the middle. He can be upgraded....I'd welcome a trade with open arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Yes I can. When I was a master sergeant in the Air Force, I was expected to do the same things lower-ranking airmen did, and for a whole lot less money than what the Bills are offering Byrd. You want that kind of money, act the part. Way to humble brag about being in the military. These two things have zero in common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Yes I can. When I was a master sergeant in the Air Force, I was expected to do the same things lower-ranking airmen did, and for a whole lot less money than what the Bills are offering Byrd. You want that kind of money, act the part. Did you have a chance to be a free agent and offer yourself to the highest bidder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmac Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Did you have a chance to be a free agent and offer yourself to the highest bidder? Yes I did. I could have been civil service or a contractor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 So what are the chances he doesn't play during the season? What's the final date he can "report" to earn his one year contract? Or has he not signed that yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKelso'sHelmet Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 IT'S NOT MANDATORY FOR BYRD. HE'S CANNOT ATTEND the bills minicamp, BECAUSE HE HAS NO CONTRACT. similarly, he cannot attend the Detroit Lions minicamp. HE IS A RFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Hey you were the one agreeing with me. I though you get kicked off for agreeing. By the way Byrd is still the word. Lets hope he doesn't fly the coup. But I think they are going to have to let him fly away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Mario, maybe. Fitz? As much as some here think a nickel would be overpaying him his deal was appropriate for a mid-level starting QB. PTR Really? Then why was his GM (less than 18 months after giving Fitz that deal) crying to another GM that that new contract was crippling said GM's ability to sign other players? In fact, he said "We just can't afford to pay that kind of money for a guy who's fighting for probably a backup job." This was after Fitz had a year (2012) at least as good as in 2010, when Buddy rewarded him with that contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Winfield, clements, whitner.....byrd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchmurraydowntown Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 Winfield, clements, whitner.....byrd These 4 guys have something in common but some things are not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts