Poll: Should the "Redskins" name be changed?

[NoSaint]

While the word Redskins can be meant in it's negative context, one can't argue that it can also be seen in it's positive form. In the context of this thread most people choose to see the negative in it. I assume most of the US population does.

 

As stated numerous times the N-word is also often used in a positive context. Usually, but not always, within a specific race.

 

Who knows what they were thinking when they chose the name? It may be correctly documented somewhere. However I do not think that when the name was chosen it was meant in a negative context. Most sports teams choose a name that depicts strength and they would like their team to be percived from this standpoint.

 

If one chooses to place a derogatory meaning to the name that was their choice, not the intended vision. Almost anything can appear to be inflammatory in some sense if you allow yourself to go there.

 

I do not think that was the intended vision of the team when the name was chosen and I think it should be taken as it was intended. Even if you do not agree you must be able to see where it could be taken as a positive image of the American Indian.

 

 

To turn that into a negative is the personal choice of those who percive it that way. I think Washington's logo is professional and I do not believe I have seen the team show it in the negative way it has been portrayed here.

 

It was chosen by an incredibly racist man who made his coach dress as a warrior for home games... I think it was more sideshow than honor, but I wasn't there so maybe I'm off.

[SRQ_BillsFan]

Bullcrap. They don't need to change the name of the team. They just need to change the logo.

 

They don't even need to do that, throw some feathers in, a turkey on the table for thanksgiving dinner and we are good.

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2013 by SRQ_BillsFan

[SRQ_BillsFan]

The team moved to Fenway Park (home of the Boston Red Sox) the next year, and Marshall changed the name to the "Redskins" apparently in honor of then-coach Lone Star Dietz, a Native American (he claimed to be part Sioux, but his actual ancestry has been challenged. The original name was Boston Braves.

 

 

Quite a jump from Braves to Redskins, obviously it was meant to offend.

 

Doesn't sound to me like they chose the name to mock or make fun of Indians. I highly doubt they were concerned about large amounts of drunken Indians fighting Cowboys fans in the crowd while shooting at the Buffalo players with arrows and aligning with the Chiefs and other Indian sports fans. Why would anyone choose to alianate a portion of potential paying fans. The name has been taken out of context, others have tried to get their name in the paper and then we have the political PC people jumping onto the band wagon as well as anyone who was ever bullied as a kid. Actually even the different Indian tribes fought each other for land and I am sure they had derogatory names for each other as well as complimentary names. Maybe they were even the same name depending on the context?

 

Everyone has paid far too much attention putting their own spin on a name that was meant as a compliment. There is no logical reason for it to have been meant as anything else.

 

Why don't we simply remove every derogatory word from the English language? Changing the name does nothing to limit the use of the word. Hell I don't even like the word blender because it sounds like bender and that's not fair to the alcoholics. We can go back to finger painting on walls, wait we can't do that either cause the cave men might have been Indians.

Edited May 30, 2013 by SRQ_BillsFan

[DC Tom]

I am, but I chose to do it my way....I'm sure you're okay with that....If not...WGAS?

 

Well...okay, then. Yeah, I'm fine with it.

 

As long as you understand that it makes you more part of the problem than the solution.

[26CornerBlitz]

Well...okay, then. Yeah, I'm fine with it.

 

As long as you understand that it makes you more part of the problem than the solution.

 

Understand. Get over yourself. Your opinion is not fact. No sale here.

[DC Tom]

Understand. Get over yourself. Your opinion is not fact. No sale here.

 

While it may be opinion...it's also a straight-line rational analysis that is far, far more intelligent and informed than a knee-jerk "Oooh! Bad word!" blanket redaction. IF you want to have a serious discussion about race and racism in America, you can't push it into the shadows and pretend it doesn't exist, simply because it offends your delicate sensibilities. You can't have a discussion about racism without discussing the manner in which it's expressed. If you can't say the word "wetback," and can't distinguish between the context of calling someone a "wetback" and using it within a conversation about racism against Mexicans, you are hindering the free discussion of the very issue you're concerned about. Hence, you are part of the problem.

[26CornerBlitz]

While it may be opinion...it's also a straight-line rational analysis that is far, far more intelligent and informed than a knee-jerk "Oooh! Bad word!" blanket redaction. IF you want to have a serious discussion about race and racism in America, you can't push it into the shadows and pretend it doesn't exist, simply because it offends your delicate sensibilities. You can't have a discussion about racism without discussing the manner in which it's expressed. If you can't say the word "wetback," and can't distinguish between the context of calling someone a "wetback" and using it within a conversation about racism against Mexicans, you are hindering the free discussion of the very issue you're concerned about. Hence, you are part of the problem.

 

Okay Thanks.

 

Here's proof positive that you have no idea what you're talking about: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/154949-poll-should-the-redskins-name-be-changed/page__st__300#entry2809083

 

As I said earlier, this particular time, I chose to say it the way I wanted because I wanted to, but thanks for your needless lecture.

Edited May 30, 2013 by 26CornerBlitz

[xsoldier54]

The very fact that Congress is involved is reason enough to keep the name. Congress has way bigger problems to solve than the name of a sports team. If the Skins want to voluntarily change the name, then great, but not because Congress is bullying them into it.

[The Big Cat]

The very fact that Congress is involved is reason enough to keep the name. Congress has way bigger problems to solve than the name of a sports team. If the Skins want to voluntarily change the name, then great, but not because Congress is bullying them into it.

 

Agreed that it's political chicanery, same old same old. But to be fair to them, the team is in their backyard (assuming they're in session).

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Understand. Get over yourself. Your opinion is not fact. No sale here.

 

Neither is yours... your righteous indignation doesn't fool me, that's for sure. It is a FACT that at least one Native American is offended by the use of "Redskins", but it is an OPINION to state that a majority are offended by it, and an OPINION that anyone non-Native American who is not involved in polling the whole of the race states it as such.

Edited May 30, 2013 by BmoreBills

[26CornerBlitz]

Neither is yours... your righteous indignation doesn't fool me, that's for sure. It is a FACT that at least one Native American is offended by the use of "Redskins", but it is an OPINION to state that a majority are offended by it, and an OPINION that anyone non-Native American who is not involved in polling the whole of the race states it as such.

 

All of us are obviously entitled to our opinions. I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else. Frankly, I don't care whether I'm "fooling" you or not. I'll keep on expressing my strong opinions and if you don't agree with me, so be it.

 

As if I'm seeking your approval.

Edited May 30, 2013 by 26CornerBlitz

[The Big Cat]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why Redskins is offensive and the Betheny College Swedes are not.

 

Or why Redskins is offensive and the Yeshiva Maccabees are not.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

All of us are obviously entitled to our opinions. I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else. Frankly, I don't care whether I'm "fooling" you or not. I'll keep on expressing my strong opinions and if you don't agree with me, so be it.

 

As if I'm seeking your approval.

 

That sounds fine by me... I'm glad you can be honest about it unlike others who seek to defend their position by masking opinion as fact. Standing down... LOL

[KD in CA]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why Redskins is offensive and the Betheny College Swedes are not.

 

Or why Redskins is offensive and the Yeshiva Maccabees are not.

 

I think it's because white people with the sensitively level of your average 12 year old girl didn't tell us those are 'offensive'.

[Drewgetz]

I think it's because white people with the sensitively level of your average 12 year old girl didn't tell us those are 'offensive'.

 

Personally I think the world is too big now for anything to be offensive. Granted it's really hard to offend me but with so many people in the world we need to just let things go and not take everything so damn personal. I'm curious how many Native Americans who have nothing to gain by the name change find it offensive. (that's rhetorical btw)

 

Also agree with the ridiculousness of Congress getting involved and that the name change, if there is one, should be up to the team.

 

Perhaps one day the federal gov't will copyright "dollar bill" and the Bills will be forced to change their name too. Just as ridiculous in my opinion.

[KD in CA]

Personally I think the world is too big now for anything to be offensive. Granted it's really hard to offend me but with so many people in the world we need to just let things go and not take everything so damn personal. I'm curious how many Native Americans who have nothing to gain by the name change find it offensive. (that's rhetorical btw)

 

Also agree with the ridiculousness of Congress getting involved and that the name change, if there is one, should be up to the team.

 

Perhaps one day the federal gov't will copyright "dollar bill" and the Bills will be forced to change their name too. Just as ridiculous in my opinion.

 

No need to go that far. What happens when PETA realizes that 'Buffalo Bill' Cody hunted bison? Doesn't get much more offensive than the murder of innocent beasts.

[DC Tom]

No need to go that far. What happens when PETA realizes that 'Buffalo Bill' Cody hunted bison? Doesn't get much more offensive than the murder of innocent beasts.

 

He also won a Congressional Medal of Honor in the Plains Wars (i.e. for killing Native Americans).

 

But "Redskins" is more offensive. Go figure.

[The Big Cat]

No need to go that far. What happens when PETA realizes that 'Buffalo Bill' Cody hunted bison? Doesn't get much more offensive than the murder of innocent beasts.

He also won a Congressional Medal of Honor in the Plains Wars (i.e. for killing Native Americans).

 

But "Redskins" is more offensive. Go figure.

 

If we're going after plunderers, then the Buccaneers, Raiders and Vikings are all screwed.

 

Somebody out there is no doubt related to a woman who was (long ago) raped by a Viking. Just sayin'

Edited May 30, 2013 by taC giB ehT

[FireChan]

If we're going after plunderers, then the Buccaneers, Raiders and Vikings are all screwed.

 

Somebody out there is no doubt related to a woman who was (long ago) raped by a Viking. Just sayin'

 

Somebody was probably killed and mutilated by a dolphin as well.

 

Let's face it, the NA racism is so less prevalent than black racism, it's not even close. Obviously discrimination happens, but equating Redskins and "Coons" is not a fair assessment.

[Like A Mofo]

I am a St.John's University Alum, and back in 1994 St. John's changed their nickname from the Redmen to the Red Storm. While I don't like the Red Storm name, I understand the change now as I have gotten older. Siena changed their name, and I recall Syracuse changing a mascot back in 1978, 1979 or so from a Saltine Warrior. UMASS was also the Redmen too, they changed to the Minutemen.

 

So there is some precedent, especially at the college level.

 

I understand Dan Synder to a point here, the Redskins have a long standing tradition in Washington, that encompasses the city and its fans for many decades. And while most do not find the name offensive in any way, I bet most of those people that do not find it offensive, do not truly know what the term Redskins means. But I can sympathize with Native American culture if they do find this name offensive. And like someone posted earlier, many are not offended unless it goes after their culture.

 

I predict the Redskins will evantually change the name.

[Just in Atlanta]

We're approaching a PC slippery slope where in the future, much more will be offensive 10 years from now.

 

The Buffalo Bills? The slaughter of bison. The NY Jets? The glorification of U.S. military hegemony or violence against other nationalities.

 

Let's pick nouns, and vote on them to find the 32 most inoffensive names for all races, creeds, sexes and whatever else category people fall into.

 

The Buffalo Balloons? There we go. The NY Jelly Rolls? Shouldn't get a rise.

 

This nonsense is only going to get worse. When we're done with the race thing, it'll be something else, I promise.

 

....

 

And, by the way, Indians, aka redskins, in the context of football, implies the warrior spirit, as does Viking. IT IS NOT intended to be a slur. Vikings raped and pillaged. But that's not apparently offensive to rape victims, because it doesn't have the magical connotation to ethnicity or race, only nationality. It's a superficial barrier that PC types put up, and keep changing.

 

Will nationality nicknames be offensive next? Knicks? Canadians? Etc. Etc. Etc.

 

I agree with Like a Mofo. The name will eventually change, despite the owner's promise, as will other names.

[NoSaint]

We're approaching a PC slippery slope where in the future, much more will be offensive 10 years from now.

 

The Buffalo Bills? The slaughter of bison. The NY Jets? The glorification of U.S. military hegemony or violence against other nationalities.

 

Let's pick nouns, and vote on them to find the 32 most inoffensive names for all races, creeds, sexes and whatever else category people fall into.

 

The Buffalo Balloons? There we go. The NY Jelly Rolls? Shouldn't get a rise.

 

This nonsense is only going to get worse. When we're done with the race thing, it'll be something else, I promise.

 

....

 

And, by the way, Indians, aka redskins, in the context of football, implies the warrior spirit, as does Viking. IT IS NOT intended to be a slur. Vikings raped and pillaged. But that's not apparently offensive to rape victims, because it doesn't have the magical connotation to ethnicity or race, only nationality. It's a superficial barrier that PC types put up, and keep changing.

 

Will nationality nicknames be offensive next? Knicks? Canadians? Etc. Etc. Etc.

 

I agree with Like a Mofo. The name will eventually change, despite the owner's promise, as will other names.

 

It's amazing the terrible comparison points you've come up with. Either you really don't understand the term, or are being willfully dishonest. Vikings is insensitive to rape victims is a comparable in your head?

[DC Tom]

It's amazing the terrible comparison points you've come up with. Either you really don't understand the term, or are being willfully dishonest. Vikings is insensitive to rape victims is a comparable in your head?

 

His point is that it's comparable in SOMEONE'S head. Which it almost certainly is.

[NoSaint]

 

 

His point is that it's comparable in SOMEONE'S head. Which it almost certainly is.

 

Touché, but I think your getting pretty far out I left field to imply Vikings is bad because of rapes centuries ago- it would be a FAR more extremist stance and to compare something that's received mainstream debate for decades to THAT is really pretty far down the slope to a point that I think is fair to say probably doesn't exist in our near future.

[DC Tom]

Touché, but I think your getting pretty far out I left field to imply Vikings is bad because of rapes centuries ago- it would be a FAR more extremist stance and to compare something that's received mainstream debate for decades to THAT is really pretty far down the slope to a point that I think is fair to say probably doesn't exist in our near future.

 

I didn't say it wasn't way out in left field.

 

But I bet you could still find someone who'd find it offensive, especially in this screwed-up oversensitive country. Hell, you can find a person offended by a ham sandwich in America. We're a country of professional victims.

[NoSaint]

 

 

I didn't say it wasn't way out in left field.

 

But I bet you could still find someone who'd find it offensive, especially in this screwed-up oversensitive country. Hell, you can find a person offended by a ham sandwich in America. We're a country of professional victims.

 

We are, but none of those have much in the way of momentum. Which may speak to this, possibly, having some volume of people actually offended.

 

Further, no one has yet forced it, so really he's got nothing to worry about until that happens- unless he's worried about dissenting opinions being shared.

 

 

[Just in Atlanta]

Only ham sandwiches with mayo offend me.

 

Southerners love them. They even put mayo on Italian hoagies, which is an affront to good taste.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Tell you what re-name them the middle aged balding, pale-white skins. I won't whine and am big enough not to be offended.

 

Jeeeeze people just look for things to be offended about. Next thing you know plus sizers will be opposed to the Giants and what exactly is a Cleveland brown? Must be racist.

 

Maybe all teams should just be numbers or letters. Then, Cities won't be offended, animal rights activists won't have a beef, lightning's destructive power won't be misrepresented, meat packers and sea faring pirates won't feel objectified..... Seriously

 

We bills fans can introduce Your fighting 14127-B's.... Try to find what is offensive about that. Someone will.

Edited May 31, 2013 by over 20 years of fanhood

[Mr. WEO]

The bloviating contained in this bloated thread has reached critical mass. Congress must act to shut it down.

 

Mercy.

[Beerball]

One guy's opinion

[todd]

It is exactly the same as naming a team something like, "The Washington Darkies", or "The Washington Blacks", or even "The Washington Negroes"

 

There was a time when Negro was an acceptable term - around the same time the team was named "Redskins." Times change, society becomes more sophisticated (mostly), and we realize the errors of our ways. Changing the name of the team doesn't mean we forget about heritage or history, but it is a representation of how society has improved. We don't denigrate groups of people any more the way we used to when racism and bigotry were more accepted, and that is a good thing.

Edited June 12, 2013 by todd

[dave mcbride]

http://sullydish.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/ncai-ad-mascots-racial-equality.png

 

[26CornerBlitz]

One guy's opinion

 

I applaud Tim Graham.

[bigK14094]

In this country, we have the 1st amendment, that is free speech. Mr Snyder, the owner of the REDSKINS, does not want to change. End of story. The money talks. Those who wish to protest can avoid patronizing his business.

[eme123]

I applaud Tim Graham.

 

It will be interesting to see how long it takes before Tim Graham slips and uses the "R-Word".

 

In this country, we have the 1st amendment, that is free speech. Mr Snyder, the owner of the REDSKINS, does not want to change. End of story. The money talks. Those who wish to protest can avoid patronizing his business.

 

Yes, Snyder bought the Washington Redskins. He didn't buy the Washington Pelicans.

Forbes Redskins Value: 1.56 Bil

Forbes Pelicans Value: ???? not even close

[26CornerBlitz]

Force of habit says it will occur at some point.

It will be interesting to see how long it takes before Tim Graham slips and uses the "R-Word".Yes, Snyder bought the Washington Redskins. He didn't buy the Washington Pelicans. Forbes Redskins Value: 1.56 Bil Forbes Pelicans Value: ???? not even close

 

So the value of the franchise decreases with a name change? Pretty irrelevant argument with respect to the argument regardless of where one might stand on the issue.

Edited June 12, 2013 by 26CornerBlitz

[Beerball]

Force of habit says it will occur at some point.

 

 

 

So the value of the franchise decreases with a name change? Pretty irrelevant argument with respect to the argument regardless of any where one might stand on the issue.

A name change wouldn't do diddly squat to the value of a franchise IMO. In the short term it would line the owner's pockets. Merchandise sales would skyrocket. I also don't think that he'd have trouble selling out of current stuff. Between collectors and average Joe's he'd have no trouble selling it.

 

I haven't weighed in with an opinion on this topic because my opinion doesn't matter. I am not affected by the name; there are those who are deeply affected and they deserve to be heard.

[Mr. WEO]

I applaud Tim Graham.

 

I don't have a strong opinion either way, but this is self serving grandstanding by Graham. He has spent his entire career covering sports and now, because this story is in the news, he has suddenly come to the conclusion that the name Redskins is derogatory and he announces to all of us that he will no longer utter this word?

 

Get over yourself--you're a sports writer. This is such nonsense-spare us the sanctimony and write your sports pieces.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Mr. WEO

[26CornerBlitz]

I don't have a strong opinion either way, but this is self serving grandstanding by Graham. He has spent his entire career covering sports and now, because this story is in the news, he has suddenly come to the conclusion that the name Redskins is derogatory and he announces to all of us that he will no longer utter this word?

 

Get over yourself--you're a sports writer. This is such nonsense-spare us the santimony and write your sports pieces.

 

Damn, you're cynical. People are unable to change or evolve over time?

[Ralph W.]

Funny thing is the name has no affect on Indians "Native Americans" TBH they don't even like to be called Native Americans it is a white word made up. The only people that have a problem with the name is white people which is funny when you think about it.

Edited June 12, 2013 by EJ3