Marcellus Wiley talks Ralph

[PromoTheRobot]

Yeah. The people here who hate Flutie is beyond me. The guy just won everywhere he went. Cannot even believe people liked Johnson at all - ever.

At least while he was with the Bills. Some hate facts, I guess. Or maybe they have a short person problem.

 

The guy won. No time in history did a QB lead a team to the playoffs, then not start. Except under Ralph.

 

But Ralph's great. I mean he spends $$ every 10 years. When he HAS to. And then folks say....

 

A fish rots from the head down.

No one hates Flutie. The hate is for the cult that sprung up around Flutie, inflating someone who had some good games into a god.

 

PTR

[Peter]

No one hates Flutie. The hate is for the cult that sprung up around Flutie, inflating someone who had some good games into a god.

 

PTR

 

Well said as usual.

[Doc]

Yeah. The people here who hate Flutie is beyond me. The guy just won everywhere he went. Cannot even believe people liked Johnson at all - ever.

At least while he was with the Bills. Some hate facts, I guess. Or maybe they have a short person problem.

 

The guy won. No time in history did a QB lead a team to the playoffs, then not start. Except under Ralph.

 

But Ralph's great. I mean he spends $$ every 10 years. When he HAS to. And then folks say....

 

A fish rots from the head down.

Flutie was figured-out/in decline by mid-season of 1999. That season he had a 55% completion rate, 6.6 YPA, and 20 TD's (19 passing, 1 rushing) and 20 turnovers (16 INT's and 4 fumbles), and was saved by a great defense. The Bills got the best out of him they could.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

He's still the reason a small, dying city like Buffalo has a team in the first place. The Flutie-Johnson thing was beyond stupid. But he deserves zero fault in this year's start. He did pretty much what evey fan wanted him to do. No person should be more disappointed than Ralph. As much as some people hate him, I want them to give him a winning season before the unfortunate happens.

 

Unfortunate for whom, exactly?

[Livinginthepast]

I for one, was not a Flutie guy, but it was hard to argue with his record...but that season Flutie was playing dreadfully the last 6 or 7 games, and his arm appeared to be getting weaker by the week. It almost seemed like it was getting to the point that they were winning in spite of him, rather than because of him. I am not sure I would have made the move that Ralph (apparently) ordered right before the playoffs, but I won't say I wasn't kind of excited about it at the time.

 

I was a Flutie fan and I do agree that the end of the 99 season Fluties performances were mediocre. His arm was tiring and teams had figured out ways to defend against his style of QBing.However the team was still winning and was 6-2 in the last 8 games! If it wasnt for the "4th and Stupid" play against the NYG and a craptastic perfomance against the Jets (both winnable games) they would have hosted a playoff game. The playoffs was not the time to change Qbs. Johnson had not proven anything to anybody with his 1 game "allstar" performance even despite Fluties diminishing success. A coach with more backbone would have stood up to Wilson and said I will quit if you meddle in my running of the team. But good ole boy Gomer Philipps just said "Yessum sir" and folded. What a joke. what a great way to instil some "confidence" in the team. Now all that being said, the "statue" did perform admirably in the 2nd half of that game and almost pulled it out. However had Flutie been in the first half (after a week's rest) the Bills might have controlled that game. Remember RJ was sacked 6 times in the first half!! You cannot tell me that Flutie would have done worse in that half than RJ did. RJ only had a week to take the snaps and get into the rhythm of the offence. What kind of idiot would allow him to go into hostile environment like that stadium and start a playoff game? Seriously one of the worst decisions that this franchise has ever made and solid proof that Wade (although a superb defensive coordinator) was not and never will be head coaching material!

Edited October 10, 2012 by Livinginthepast

[DDD]

He's still the reason a small, dying city like Buffalo has a team in the first place. The Flutie-Johnson thing was beyond stupid. But he deserves zero fault in this year's start. He did pretty much what evey fan wanted him to do. No person should be more disappointed than Ralph. As much as some people hate him, I want them to give him a winning season before the unfortunate happens.

 

Well said sir, well said. And the other side is that the City of Buffalo and it's fans deserve a Lombardi trophy.

[transient]

 

No one hates Flutie. The hate is for the cult that sprung up around Flutie, inflating someone who had some good games into a god.

 

PTR

 

I hated Flutie. He was a self promoting douche whose antics resulted in the locker room choosing sides and perpetuated the inevitable divide it caused. He took credit for success that was predominantly due to a relentless defense, and threw the team under the bus for his failures. The Jets with Belichik as DC drew up the blueprint of how to stop him during a Monday night game, don't pressure him and take away the short and intermediate routes, and the "magic" was gone. He was never going to win us a Super Bowl, and the bull **** controversy led to taking too long to figure out Johnson wasn't either. We wasted the seasons with a SB caliber defense because of it.

[thewildrabbit]

No wonder why no gm or coach wants to work here then.

Left to his own devices we all see what team RW puts on the field, just look at the last decade.

 

RW also wanted to draft someone other then Bruce Smith in 85, and again when Denver offered 2, 1st rounders for Bruce, Wilson wanted to take them. Wilson would have drafted Tony Mandarich, Wilson would have drafted Brian Bosworth

 

Nothing will change until ownership changes...

[Livinginthepast]

I hated Flutie. He was a self promoting douche whose antics resulted in the locker room choosing sides and perpetuated the inevitable divide it caused. He took credit for success that was predominantly due to a relentless defense, and threw the team under the bus for his failures. The Jets with Belichik as DC drew up the blueprint of how to stop him during a Monday night game, don't pressure him and take away the short and intermediate routes, and the "magic" was gone. He was never going to win us a Super Bowl, and the bull **** controversy led to taking too long to figure out Johnson wasn't either. We wasted the seasons with a SB caliber defense because of it.

 

You're right the defense was immense. But Trent Dilfer proved all you needed was a marginal QB to manage a big game and you could win a SB. Flutie was better than Dilfer. With a couple of breaks we could have won a SB with him.

[DC Tom]

No one hates Flutie. The hate is for the cult that sprung up around Flutie, inflating someone who had some good games into a god.

 

PTR

 

Not true. I hate Flutie.

 

Not as a QB, though.

[fan_in_tx]

 

 

I hated Flutie. He was a self promoting douche whose antics resulted in the locker room choosing sides and perpetuated the inevitable divide it caused. He took credit for success that was predominantly due to a relentless defense, and threw the team under the bus for his failures. The Jets with Belichik as DC drew up the blueprint of how to stop him during a Monday night game, don't pressure him and take away the short and intermediate routes, and the "magic" was gone. He was never going to win us a Super Bowl, and the bull **** controversy led to taking too long to figure out Johnson wasn't either. We wasted the seasons with a SB caliber defense because of it.

.

 

Wasnt that blueprint actually drawn by Belichik sometime in 1990? Could of sworn another QB struggled under this same plan previously but his name somehow escapes me.

 

[Boludo]

doug flutie was fun and entertaining and was a winner. he wasn't among the elite qbs of his day but he was better than the majority of qbs that have started for the bills.

 

ralph wilson is one of the worst owner's in football if the main criterion for judging is an owner's impact on the on-field success of the franchise.

 

this is all very old news.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Let's put things in perspective. Wiley was good friends with Flutie. Rob Johnson is not the reason why we "lost" the game against the Titans.

 

People also seem to forget about Flutie's performance at the end of the playoff game in Miami against the Dolphins.

 

The playoff game where he threw for 360 yards and twice (and almost 3 times) brought the Bills back from a deficit?

 

The irony here is that Wade apparently caved in and started Johnson over his choice which was Flutie but then held his ground and refused to fire the special teams coach. That's where he drew the line. Not invoking principal and his authority as head coach when it came to making the decision on who to start at QB and protecting the team but rather when it came to protecting a personal friend from dismissal.

 

Yeah, Wade is just not head coaching material. Great coordinator though… as everyone points out.

 

1) I can dispute his record. Not an overly accurate passer, despite having targets like Moulds and Riemersma. Had one of the best defenses in the league.

 

2) Turned over the ball at the end against Miami.

 

3) Was he better than Rob Johnson? Everyone knows that is a yes. Being better than Rob Johnson doesn't get you far

 

1) Yeah but Flutie won consistently with that great defense and Johnson lost consistently with that great defense.

 

2) The play where Thurman was attempting to block their best pass rusher, Trace Armstrong (who finished his career with over 100 sacks)?

 

3) That's the point. He was better than Rob Johnson. Everything else is immaterial. We didn't start the better player.

 

This is crap, he played well enough in a hostile environment, in terrible weather, and against a very good defense to win the game. Flutie may have done the same and I'm not saying I agree with the decision, but to say he sucked ass is wrong. Flutie was not the reason the Bills made the playoffs that season, it was all the defense.

 

The defense that Johnson consistently lost with during his Buffalo tenure? You're wrong.

 

I remember a perfectly thrown ball to Andre Reed then Reed bumping a ref moving the ball off the 1 yard line changnig a sure touchdown to a force a field goal to draw us within 4. I remember an onside kick recovery then more fantastic completions setting us up at the 5 yard line with time running out. And yes I remember Doug Flutie holding on to the ball a second too long trying to make a play as he had all fourth quarter after Thurman missed a block on Trace Armstrong who then leveled Flutie and dislodged the ball while Ruben Brown looked at it laying on the ground. Is that how Flutie cost us the game? Damn he sucked..

 

How about the fumble by Moulds or the whiff of a block by Thurman? That was one of the most exciting games I've ever seen. Flutie led them back three times… the last time unsuccessfully. He played with great heart.

 

Was that Jerry O who pump faked, did not see the the Dolphins best pass rusher from his non blind side, and fumbled the ball at the end of the game on the door step of the Dolphins end zone.

 

Listen, Flutie had some good games for the Bills. For a good part of the Dolphin game, he played pretty well. Yet, the Flutopians always seem to B word and moan about how we would have won the Titans playoff game if only Flutie had played but, at the same time, always seem to forget that he did play in a Bills playoff game and did not have his magic pixie dust when the game was on the line. At the most crucial time of the game, he fumbled the ball. I was there. We should have won that freaking game.

 

Those teams were the beneficiaries of a very good Buffalo defense.

 

The defense which Johnson consistently lost with as the Bills quarterback?

 

No one hates Flutie. The hate is for the cult that sprung up around Flutie, inflating someone who had some good games into a god.

 

PTR

 

Well, Flutie's certainly a God to me. Anyone who saves this franchise is a God to me. Before Flutie took over, the Bills were losing under Rob Johnson and the season ticket sales were totally stagnant. It wasn't until Flutie took over and finished the season 10-3 that the season ticket sales surged and the lame ass "Buffalo Backs the Bills" campaign by the business leaders ended up succeeding. Had the Bills continued losing under Johnson which was very likely, the lease extension would not have been activated and the Bills would likely have left Buffalo.

 

To me, Flutie saved the franchise so forgive me for putting him on a pedestal.

 

I hated Flutie. He was a self promoting douche whose antics resulted in the locker room choosing sides and perpetuated the inevitable divide it caused. He took credit for success that was predominantly due to a relentless defense, and threw the team under the bus for his failures. The Jets with Belichik as DC drew up the blueprint of how to stop him during a Monday night game, don't pressure him and take away the short and intermediate routes, and the "magic" was gone. He was never going to win us a Super Bowl, and the bull **** controversy led to taking too long to figure out Johnson wasn't either. We wasted the seasons with a SB caliber defense because of it.

 

So we have strong evidence that Wade wasn't a strong enough leader to hold the team together but it's Flutie's fault… even with testimony by one of his former teammates that the team was behind Flutie?

 

And your last two sentences are completely nonsensical. The controversy took too long because of Flutie? We wasted seasons because of Flutie? Did Flutie prevent the Bills from getting a better quarterback? Did he prevent a better quarterback from playing?

 

The answers are no, and no.

[Boludo]

san jose bills fan is winning the thread

[birdog1960]

The irony here is that Wade apparently caved in and started Johnson over his choice which was Flutie but then held his ground and refused to fire the special teams coach. That's where he drew the line. Not invoking principal and his authority as head coach when it came to making the decision on who to start at QB and protecting the team but rather when it came to protecting a personal friend from dismissal.

what's the difference? it all speaks to a meddling owner with a napoleon complex. the only thing worse than a control freak is a clueless control freak. that's what we have with wilson.

 

think of the unspoken stories out there about ralph that only the players and potential gm and coaching candidates know.

Edited October 10, 2012 by birdog1960

[PromoTheRobot]

Left to his own devices we all see what team RW puts on the field, just look at the last decade.

 

RW also wanted to draft someone other then Bruce Smith in 85, and again when Denver offered 2, 1st rounders for Bruce, Wilson wanted to take them. Wilson would have drafted Tony Mandarich, Wilson would have drafted Brian Bosworth

 

Nothing will change until ownership changes...

I don't think that is true at all. Someone help me out here. That pick was down to Flutie or Bruce Smith. I assume Ralph had final say and okayed drafting Smith. Of course Bruce had a lackluster rookie season and was looking like a bust before he took the game seriously, and the rest is history. As for Flutie, he went to the USFL New Jersey Generals.

 

We bust on Ralph for meddling but not every pick he wanted was wrong.

 

PTR

[CosmicBills]

And this has what exactly to do with the Bills defensive performance the last two games? Is Ralph making the defensive calls from bed?

 

PTR

Never said it had anything to do with that. Just an interesting quote from someone who was there that I hadn't heard before.

[birdog1960]

I don't think that is true at all. Someone help me out here. That pick was down to Flutie or Bruce Smith. I assume Ralph had final say and okayed drafting Smith. Of course Bruce had a lackluster rookie season and was looking like a bust before he took the game seriously, and the rest is history. As for Flutie, he went to the USFL New Jersey Generals.

 

We bust on Ralph for meddling but not every pick he wanted was wrong.

 

PTR

so overall, you concede that his meddling has had a major detrimental effect on the organization? i'm guessing wiley agrees...

[PromoTheRobot]

so overall, you concede that his meddling has had a major detrimental effect on the organization? i'm guessing wiley agrees...

 

No owner should meddle, unless that owner is Al Davis in his prime. All I'm pointing out is that not every player Ralph wanted was a dud. Insert the your blind squirrel or broken clock analogy here.

 

PTR

[birdog1960]

No owner should meddle, unless that owner is Al Davis in his prime. All I'm pointing out is that not every player Ralph wanted was a dud. Insert the your blind squirrel or broken clock analogy here.

 

PTR

well, if the parable fits. this citation represents further proof of what we all (mostly) know. wilson is the source of our pain as fans. the players know it. the coaches know it. the gm's know it....and i think ralph knows it. but he doesn't care. he's selling entertainment and he knows buffalonians and expatriated buffalonians will take 2nd or 3rd best or even, in several years, the absolute worst. good business? maybe. honorable and admirable? not by me.

[PromoTheRobot]

well, if the parable fits. this citation represents further proof of what we all (mostly) know. wilson is the source of our pain as fans. the players know it. the coaches know it. the gm's know it....and i think ralph knows it. but he doesn't care. he's selling entertainment and he knows buffalonians and expatriated buffalonians will take 2nd or 3rd best or even, in several years, the absolute worst. good business? maybe. honorable and admirable? not by me.

I don't think Ralph meddled much in the last 2 years. Also, as much as us Bills fans like to believe we have the worst of everything, half of fans of other NFL teams think their owner is the worst. Ask Chiefs fans what they think about Lamar Hunt?

 

PTR

[birdog1960]

I don't think Ralph meddled much in the last 2 years. Also, as much as us Bills fans like to believe we have the worst of everything, half of fans of other NFL teams think their owner is the worst. Ask Chiefs fans what they think about Lamar Hunt?

 

PTR

misery loves company...add that to my truisms. comparing bad to worse never results in success. not that we have a choice but shouldn't we make comparisons to the best organizations. here's an analogy - radio shack versus amazon.

[PromoTheRobot]

misery loves company...add that to my truisms. comparing bad to worse never results in success. not that we have a choice but shouldn't we make comparisons to the best organizations. here's an analogy - radio shack versus amazon.

Whatever. We are the worst! Feel better?

 

PTR

[bowery4]

I for one, was not a Flutie guy, but it was hard to argue with his record...but that season Flutie was playing dreadfully the last 6 or 7 games, and his arm appeared to be getting weaker by the week. It almost seemed like it was getting to the point that they were winning in spite of him, rather than because of him. I am not sure I would have made the move that Ralph (apparently) ordered right before the playoffs, but I won't say I wasn't kind of excited about it at the time.

I felt the same way but still would have stuck with Flutie. There is no way that was the right move, the thing that gets lost is that Wade didn't HAVE to do it, would RW have fired him right then? I kind of doubt it.

[bowery4]

I was a Flutie fan and I do agree that the end of the 99 season Fluties performances were mediocre. His arm was tiring and teams had figured out ways to defend against his style of QBing.However the team was still winning and was 6-2 in the last 8 games! If it wasnt for the "4th and Stupid" play against the NYG and a craptastic perfomance against the Jets (both winnable games) they would have hosted a playoff game. The playoffs was not the time to change Qbs. Johnson had not proven anything to anybody with his 1 game "allstar" performance even despite Fluties diminishing success. A coach with more backbone would have stood up to Wilson and said I will quit if you meddle in my running of the team. But good ole boy Gomer Philipps just said "Yessum sir" and folded. What a joke. what a great way to instil some "confidence" in the team. Now all that being said, the "statue" did perform admirably in the 2nd half of that game and almost pulled it out. However had Flutie been in the first half (after a week's rest) the Bills might have controlled that game. Remember RJ was sacked 6 times in the first half!! You cannot tell me that Flutie would have done worse in that half than RJ did. RJ only had a week to take the snaps and get into the rhythm of the offence. What kind of idiot would allow him to go into hostile environment like that stadium and start a playoff game? Seriously one of the worst decisions that this franchise has ever made and solid proof that Wade (although a superb defensive coordinator) was not and never will be head coaching material!

Sorry didn't see this post, same point.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

No wonder why no gm or coach wants to work here then.

 

Grego wanted to come here and he was highly respected, also Marvin Lewis and John Fox interviewed so all this talk about High profile guys not wanting to come here is BS.

 

The reason guys don't want to come here now is bc of uncertainty abt future ownership and location.

 

Also not having a Franchise QB is a big deterrent, look at Jeff Fisher He chose the Rams bc of Bradford whereas Miami didn't have Tannehill yet so he went to St. Louis. If We had a Bress or Rodgers we would have much better chance of Getting Great coaches in here.

 

Let's put things in perspective. Wiley was good friends with Flutie. Rob Johnson is not the reason why we "lost" the game against the Titans.

 

People also seem to forget about Flutie's performance at the end of the playoff game in Miami against the Dolphins.

 

And Rob played a really Good game, don't know why he sucked latter but that playoff game he was spot on.

[mellaman101]

Im just going to flat out say this. The Buffalo Bills were going to the Super Bowl that season. The D was AWESOME! The O rallied around Doug, the media loved the Bills and Doug! Thats just my 2 cents but I think the Bills were magic that year.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

And Rob played a really Good game, don't know why he sucked latter but that playoff game he was spot on.

 

"Rob" was 10-22 for 131 yards so I don't know about "spot on."

 

Antowain Smith had 2 rushing TDs though.

[ganesh]

 

Every failure this team has had, and every success, starts and ends with one man. Karma is a B word.

 

http://espn.go.com/e...geles/play?s=la

(In the noon block, somewhere around 12:07 mark)

 

This was one time, the owner definitely meddled...But why is that being extended to say that he is responsible for every other failure of this team...

 

In defense of Ralph, the wins in 1999 came due to a stout defense and game management by Flutie. Flutie stunk up the joint in quite a few games. It is not as if Flutie was a franchise QB. And to Rob's defense, he won that game for us before our esteemed special teams blew it. Stop blaming Ralph for everything.

[FanofFredJackson]

Ralph Wilson is the number one person most responsible for why the Bills are such a lousy organization.

[Peter]

"Rob" was 10-22 for 131 yards so I don't know about "spot on."

 

Antowain Smith had 2 rushing TDs though.

 

What were Air McNair's stats in that game?

[bills44]

If it wasnt for the "4th and Stupid" play against the NYG

 

I don't remember this. Can you please refresh my memory?

[GG]

Whatever. We are the worst! Feel better?

 

PTR

 

Probably the polar opposite of the feeling that this franchise & its management can do no wrong. Right?

[Buftex]

Yeah. The people here who hate Flutie is beyond me. The guy just won everywhere he went. Cannot even believe people liked Johnson at all - ever.

At least while he was with the Bills. Some hate facts, I guess. Or maybe they have a short person problem.

 

The guy won. No time in history did a QB lead a team to the playoffs, then not start. Except under Ralph.

 

But Ralph's great. I mean he spends $$ every 10 years. When he HAS to. And then folks say....

 

A fish rots from the head down.

 

I will say, I hated Flutie before he ever donned a Bills uniform, and threw-up in my mouth a little when the Bills signed him, He was, for me, the most difficult Buffalo Bill to root for. The stories I heard, once he was in Buffalo, didn't make me like him any more. But, all that said, he was an exciting alternative to RJ. Flutie, maybe because of this size, was an opportunist wherever he went. He was braught to Buffalo to add some vetran mentoring to Rob Johnson who was, for better or worse, the desgnated new "franchise QB". RJ had superior physical skills, but once Flutie realized he was lacking in confidence, he pounced, and made the team his own... great competitor Flutie, but maybe not the best teammate. I know guys like Wiley and Bruce liked him, cuz their defensive efforts weren't going to waste. But get Thurman or Andre Reed off the record, and I bet they won't have as many flattering things to say. Talk to the guys he played with in Chicago. Talk to his fellow players union members who he crossed the picket line on, so he could get his chance to flex his superior skills against bartenders and former all-state high school players.

 

I am always conflicted when it comes to Flutie. I am not blind enough to say he didn't give us some thrills, or that he was a better QB than Rob Johnson. Strictly as a player, what I was always amazed by, as unorthodox as he was, and as physically small as he was, he had remarkable control of the ball, and was very careful with the ball. Not to say he didn't turn it over a time or two, but for some of the crazy stuff he did, he really didn't turn it over all that much. But, while he was our starting QB, I always had this feeling that we were doing it with smoke and mirrors, and the wizard would finally be exposed when it hurt the most.

 

One of the most exhilerating moments, post Kelly era, was Fluties winning TD run against the Jags. Everyone remembers it. It was the launching point of "Flutopia" in WNY. But I will never forget, in the afterglow, as little Dougie basked in the lime-light, how he threw his HOF teammate under the bus...and Thurman wasn't happy about it. He made a point of telling everyone that Thurman "was supposed to take the handoff, but missed the call" (or something like that) " so being mighty mouse, I had no choice but to take matters into my own hands, and save the day"...if you look at that play, it is pretty obvious that Flutie had no intention of handing that ball off to anyone, even for a split second.

 

Also, the notion that Flutie "saved the Bills" is pretty laughable, but it made good headlines at the time. A decision like that, particularly at a time when the Bills were still fairly relevant as a franchise, wouldn't come down to how many games they won or lost in their "contract season".

Edited October 10, 2012 by Buftex

[bills44]

I will say, I hated Flutie before he ever donned a Bills uniform, and threw-up in my mouth a little when the Bills signed him, He was, for me, the most difficult Buffalo Bill to root for. The stories I heard, once he was in Buffalo, didn't make me like him any more. But, all that said, he was an exciting alternative to RJ. Flutie, maybe because of this size, was an opportunist wherever he went. He was braught to Buffalo to add some vetran mentoring to Rob Johnson who was, for better or worse, the desgnated new "franchise QB". RJ had superior physical skills, but once Flutie realized he was lacking in confidence, he pounced, and made the team his own... great competitor Flutie, but maybe not the best teammate. I know guys like Wiley and Bruce liked him, cuz their defensive efforts weren't going to waste. But get Thurman or Andre Reed off the record, and I bet they won't have as many flattering things to say. Talk to the guys he played with in Chicago. Talk to his fellow players union members who he crossed the picket line on, so he could get his chance to flex his superior skills against bartenders and former all-state high school players.

 

I am always conflicted when it comes to Flutie. I am not blind enough to say he didn't give us some thrills, or that he was a better QB than Rob Johnson. Strictly as a player, what I was always amazed by, as unorthodox as he was, and as physically small as he was, he had remarkable control of the ball, and was very careful with the ball. Not to say he didn't turn it over a time or two, but for some of the crazy stuff he did, he really didn't turn it over all that much. But, while he was our starting QB, I always had this feeling that we were doing it with smoke and mirrors, and the wizard would finally be exposed when it hurt the most.

 

One of the most exhilerating moments, post Kelly era, was Fluties winning TD run against the Jags. Everyone remembers it. It was the launching point of "Flutopia" in WNY. But I will never forget, in the afterglow, as little Dougie basked in the lime-light, how he threw his HOF teammate under the bus...and Thurman wasn't happy about it. He made a point of telling everyone that Thurman "was supposed to take the handoff, but missed the call" (or something like that) " so being mighty mouse, I had no choice but to take matters into my own hands, and save the day"...if you look at that play, it is pretty obvious that Flutie had no intention of handing that ball off to anyone, even for a split second.

 

Also, the notion that Flutie "saved the Bills" is pretty laughable, but it made good headlines at the time. A decision like that, particularly at a time when the Bills were still fairly relevant as a franchise, wouldn't come down to how many games they won or lost in their "contract season".

 

Excellent post.

[MyHorseAteTheKid]

It's an old subject, but the first time I've heard Wiley talk about it.

 

On Wiley's radio show here in LA they were discussing the Tebow vs Sanchez debate and whether starting Tebow would mean the end of Rex Ryan in New York. Wiley was asked by John Ireland what he would do if he was Rex Ryan and Woody Johnson walked into his office and told him to start Tebow over Sanchez.

 

This is what Wiley said (transcribed poorly):

 

"Ralph Wilson did the same thing to us in Buffalo with Wade Philips. Wade Phillips walks into our locker room and says, 'Look, we're going to start Rob Johnson the last game of the season, in a meaningless game where we rest Doug Flutie.' We say 'fine.' Rob Johnson goes out there throws three touchdowns, three hundred yards and the owner says I want to see that money out there on the field in the playoffs.

 

Wade Philips next week says, 'Guys, we have a change at quarterback' and we looked at him -- I mean you should have heard this locker room. Everyone starts screaming, 'What the hell?! What are you talking about' ... chain of command. We were all with Fluite. We had won 10 games with him. But chain of command."

 

Every failure this team has had, and every success, starts and ends with one man. Karma is a B word.

 

 

http://espn.go.com/e...geles/play?s=la

(In the noon block, somewhere around 12:07 mark)

 

Just relived a forgotten Nightmare.. Thanks...

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Wade Philips next week says, 'Guys, we have a change at quarterback' and we looked at him -- I mean you should have heard this locker room. Everyone starts screaming, 'What the hell?! What are you talking about' ... chain of command. We were all with Fluite. We had won 10 games with him. But chain of command."

 

Every failure this team has had, and every success, starts and ends with one man. Karma is a B word.

 

10 games in the regular season, and Flutie as he did in the past would have turned the ball over and we would have lost long before :14.

[RunTheBall]

 

 

The reason guys don't want to come here now is bc of uncertainty abt future ownership

 

100% correct.

 

No coach worth a damn would even consider Buffalo right now because of this, and that has been the case for a long time.

 

I'm making a concerted effort to take a step back until this franchise is sold and new ownership is in place. Nothing is going to change for the better until then. I hope that it is in Buffalo because I won't follow the team anyplace else.

 

RTB

[Peter]

I will say, I hated Flutie before he ever donned a Bills uniform, and threw-up in my mouth a little when the Bills signed him, He was, for me, the most difficult Buffalo Bill to root for. The stories I heard, once he was in Buffalo, didn't make me like him any more. But, all that said, he was an exciting alternative to RJ. Flutie, maybe because of this size, was an opportunist wherever he went. He was braught to Buffalo to add some vetran mentoring to Rob Johnson who was, for better or worse, the desgnated new "franchise QB". RJ had superior physical skills, but once Flutie realized he was lacking in confidence, he pounced, and made the team his own... great competitor Flutie, but maybe not the best teammate. I know guys like Wiley and Bruce liked him, cuz their defensive efforts weren't going to waste. But get Thurman or Andre Reed off the record, and I bet they won't have as many flattering things to say. Talk to the guys he played with in Chicago. Talk to his fellow players union members who he crossed the picket line on, so he could get his chance to flex his superior skills against bartenders and former all-state high school players.

 

I am always conflicted when it comes to Flutie. I am not blind enough to say he didn't give us some thrills, or that he was a better QB than Rob Johnson. Strictly as a player, what I was always amazed by, as unorthodox as he was, and as physically small as he was, he had remarkable control of the ball, and was very careful with the ball. Not to say he didn't turn it over a time or two, but for some of the crazy stuff he did, he really didn't turn it over all that much. But, while he was our starting QB, I always had this feeling that we were doing it with smoke and mirrors, and the wizard would finally be exposed when it hurt the most.

 

One of the most exhilerating moments, post Kelly era, was Fluties winning TD run against the Jags. Everyone remembers it. It was the launching point of "Flutopia" in WNY. But I will never forget, in the afterglow, as little Dougie basked in the lime-light, how he threw his HOF teammate under the bus...and Thurman wasn't happy about it. He made a point of telling everyone that Thurman "was supposed to take the handoff, but missed the call" (or something like that) " so being mighty mouse, I had no choice but to take matters into my own hands, and save the day"...if you look at that play, it is pretty obvious that Flutie had no intention of handing that ball off to anyone, even for a split second.

 

Also, the notion that Flutie "saved the Bills" is pretty laughable, but it made good headlines at the time. A decision like that, particularly at a time when the Bills were still fairly relevant as a franchise, wouldn't come down to how many games they won or lost in their "contract season".

 

I also agree that your post is spot on. As for your impression about what Thurman and Andre thought about him, I would invite anyone to ask them if they ever get a moment to speak to them privately.

 

The other thing that bothered Bills and some fans about Flutie was his use of pronouns in post game press conferences. It was remarkable how often he said "we" after a loss and "I" after a win. That was particularly revealing of his attitude.

 

Flutie had some very good games with the Bills. His presence though, in some respects, was destructive to the team and did things to the fan base that I had never seen before. We are still arguing about this to this day.

 

I know I will probably get slammed by some for this, but I thought that Rob Johnson had the potential to be a very good QB for the Bills. I think that RJ's development as a QB was stunted by Flutie's presence as well as the pounding he took both on and off the field.

 

It is funny how we have complained about our most recent QBs always checking down etc. Flutie checked down a lot too. RJ was the opposite of that. He could throw a great long ball and that is what he liked to do. As a result, he stood in the pocket and got the absolute **** kicked out of him. While some here would complain that he was a "wimp" etc., I, on the other hand, thought that he showed remarkable courage standing behind that offensive line -- especially given how he was fragged by the Flutopians in the fan base (and those people who were simply Flutie fans rather than Bills fans).

 

One of the things that is somewhat interesting about the story is that RJ's mother originally was from Buffalo. Nevertheless, segments of the fan base and certainly the Flutie people never accepted him. While he was getting the **** kicked out of him playing for our team, some in the fan base cheered when he got hurt. As I said in another post, that was a watershed moment for me. I do not care how much money some of these guys are making, if you are getting the **** kicked out of you on and off the field, it has got to be tough. In the end, having both QBs on the same roster ended up being a detriment rather than a bonus.

 

Just my two cents. Go Bills.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Peter

[Rico]

Grego wanted to come here and he was highly respected, also Marvin Lewis and John Fox interviewed so all this talk about High profile guys not wanting to come here is BS.

 

The reason guys don't want to come here now is bc of uncertainty abt future ownership and location.

 

Also not having a Franchise QB is a big deterrent, look at Jeff Fisher He chose the Rams bc of Bradford whereas Miami didn't have Tannehill yet so he went to St. Louis. If We had a Bress or Rodgers we would have much better chance of Getting Great coaches in here.

 

 

 

And Rob played a really Good game, don't know why he sucked latter but that playoff game he was spot on.

That was back when the Bills had a very highly respected GM/Prez in TD. Once TD was dumped for Marv, clowntime began, and only mediocrities have been interested in the job. Even Meathead had enough sense to walk away.