HOUSE Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) I believe one of the keys to making the playoffs is opening up the passing game with a less predictable offense and this includes the long pass. Ryan Fitzpatrick is capable of the long pass but he rarely rolls out, is much better at reading a defense. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfAHZ4KJ5uE Vince Young can throw the Ball 70 yards and is much better at scrambling to buy more time. Vince to Graham (Vikings game) http://www.buffalobi...1b-75e85bde21fb Which quarterback can make the best use of the long pass & T. J. Graham ? Edited August 22, 2012 by HOUSE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I'm sure both can make use of him depending on how open he gets. And just as a note, Fitzy's 50 yard throw was off his back foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I believe one of the keys to making the playoffs is opening up the passing game with a less predictable offense and this includes the long pass. Ryan Fitzpatrick is capable of the long pass but he rarely rolls out, is much better at reading a defense. Vince Young can throw the Ball 70 yards and is much better at scrambling to buy more time. Which quarterback can make the best use of the long pass & T. J. Graham ? It appears to me that Vince was able to complete that long pass not because he rolled out but because the Bills left not one, but two extra blockers in (Corey Mac and Choice). It looked as though the same was true on the TO touch you clipped. That is not something they have done often for Fitz, and if their long pass plays follow this (unusual for them) personnel package, they will be diagnosed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmjoyce113 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I am not worried about "making use" of one receiver. I think there will be times where Fitz can utilize Graham however I think its clear to most people that Fitzpatrick has the ability to spread the ball out well. Is the he the best QB, or the one we all wish for? No probably not but I am a believer that he is perfectly capable. It's easier to play the QB position when you have a defense you know can and will make stops for you. You have to be a little less of a gun slinger when you have a Defense behind you. I think that will help Fitz alot this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 I am not worried about "making use" of one receiver. I think there will be times where Fitz can utilize Graham however I think its clear to most people that Fitzpatrick has the ability to spread the ball out well. Is the he the best QB, or the one we all wish for? No probably not but I am a believer that he is perfectly capable. It's easier to play the QB position when you have a defense you know can and will make stops for you. You have to be a little less of a gun slinger when you have a Defense behind you. I think that will help Fitz alot this year. T.J. Graham was drafted to add speed and extend the field. He is an important part of Buffalo's Offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 No I don't believe he can consistently extend the field or provide the defense with a credible deep threat they have to account for. His longer throws are looper Dooper bloopers that WRs have to wait on. The best strong armed QBs like Eli and Brady hit their guys in stride. Greater velocity allows them to throw a flatter arc. What's why people who keep blaming SJ for the drop against steelers got it wrong IMO. That ball was under thrown and SJ had to slow down and wait for it, almost catch behind him. That's really hard to do. Catch it in stride is the best way to deliver it. I think that's how young hit graham but I'd need to see a replay to verify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hopefully there will be some T.O. against the Jags moments with TJ Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Can VY maximize the use of his brain? Point is each QB has their strong and weak points and I'd rather a QB with a good head on his shoulders than a QB who can throw it deep. One that can do both however would be preferable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 No I don't believe he can consistently extend the field or provide the defense with a credible deep threat they have to account for. His longer throws are looper Dooper bloopers that WRs have to wait on. The best strong armed QBs like Eli and Brady hit their guys in stride. Greater velocity allows them to throw a flatter arc. What's why people who keep blaming SJ for the drop against steelers got it wrong IMO. That ball was under thrown and SJ had to slow down and wait for it, almost catch behind him. That's really hard to do. Catch it in stride is the best way to deliver it. I think that's how young hit graham but I'd need to see a replay to verify. And that is the stupidest thing ive ever read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrhody Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Can VY maximize the use of his brain? Point is each QB has their strong and weak points and I'd rather a QB with a good head on his shoulders than a QB who can throw it deep. One that can do both however would be preferable. I dont understand why everyone is crapping on VY right now. The guy is starting fresh with a new playbook. Can you give him the whole off-season to get adjusted before you start calling him an idiot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I dont understand why everyone is crapping on VY right now. The guy is starting fresh with a new playbook. Can you give him the whole off-season to get adjusted before you start calling him an idiot? I didn't call him an idiot at all, Vince Young is notoriously known as a head case, am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrhody Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I didn't call him an idiot at all, Vince Young is notoriously known as a head case, am I wrong? You didnt call him an idiot.. you just said that he couldnt use his brain. Is there really a difference? Yes he's had his issues in the past but lets give him a chance at a fresh start. Also I dont want you to feel like I was calling you out in particular, I feel like a lot of posters knock Vince for his smarts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 You didnt call him an idiot.. you just said that he couldnt use his brain. Is there really a difference? Yes he's had his issues in the past but lets give him a chance at a fresh start. Also I dont want you to feel like I was calling you out in particular, I feel like a lot of posters knock Vince for his smarts. I understand where you're coming from and agree that he should have another chance, however he's been known to be a headcase and to be honest until he proves otherwise he'll always be known for that. Vince has all the talent in the world but for some reason he hasn't been able to put it all together, IMO I believe that reason is what he has going on upstairs. Maybe with maturity he'll be able to shed the light he's created for himself. Until then he has a lot to prove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) I dont understand why everyone is crapping on VY right now. The guy is starting fresh with a new playbook. Can you give him the whole off-season to get adjusted before you start calling him an idiot? Not calling anyone out specifically, but I think in some instances there's racism involved. Some still arent ready for a black QB. Edited August 22, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You herd it hear last Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Akili Smith threw a mean deep ball... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I think Fitz has the arm to throw deep but he doesn't really have great touch on his deep ball. Doesn't throw it out in front of his WRs enough for them to make a play on it. Still I'd rather him in there from VY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I hate to say this but JP and even TE threw better deep balls than Fitz. And I say that despite being generally happy with Fitz as our QB. Fitz has enough skills to take us to the playoffs. But the deep ball isn't his forte while it is TJ's. I wonder if Fitz's work with Coach Lee will improve his long ball any??? Let's hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 I dont understand why everyone is crapping on VY right now. The guy is starting fresh with a new playbook. Can you give him the whole off-season to get adjusted before you start calling him an idiot? Never in my 50 years as a fan have I seen so many people ignore a quarterbacks winning percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrhody Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I understand where you're coming from and agree that he should have another chance, however he's been known to be a headcase and to be honest until he proves otherwise he'll always be known for that. Vince has all the talent in the world but for some reason he hasn't been able to put it all together, IMO I believe that reason is what he has going on upstairs. Maybe with maturity he'll be able to shed the light he's created for himself. Until then he has a lot to prove Dont get me wrong.. VY has a lot to prove. It just bugs me when people knock him for not knowing the playbook when any other QB put in his situation would have a similar learning curve. With that said, if you're hesitant because of his tendency to be a headcase then you are certainly justified in waiting for him to prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 What needs to happen is for Fitz to take shots downfield when Graham is open. Whether he connects (would be ideal) is less important than the threat of him connecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Never in my 50 years as a fan have I seen so many people ignore a quarterbacks winning percentage. Flutie? /runs away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Flutie? /runs away Which one? The one with the Bills or the Chargers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Which one? The one with the Bills or the Chargers? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Never in my 50 years as a fan have I seen so many people ignore a quarterbacks winning percentage. I don't think anyone is ignoring Young's winning percentage- it's the reason there is so much discussion in the first place. But, you also can't ignore the less positive elements of his history or character. Fitz and Young are both mixed bags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FleaMoulds80 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 What QB can make maximum use of Graham? This is an EASY question to answer. Losman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 No I don't believe he can consistently extend the field or provide the defense with a credible deep threat they have to account for. His longer throws are looper Dooper bloopers that WRs have to wait on. The best strong armed QBs like Eli and Brady hit their guys in stride. Greater velocity allows them to throw a flatter arc. What's why people who keep blaming SJ for the drop against steelers got it wrong IMO. That ball was under thrown and SJ had to slow down and wait for it, almost catch behind him. That's really hard to do. Catch it in stride is the best way to deliver it. I think that's how young hit graham but I'd need to see a replay to verify. You should probably watch the replay on that. It hits his forward (right) arm first, it's not anywhere behind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 No I don't believe he can consistently extend the field or provide the defense with a credible deep threat they have to account for. His longer throws are looper Dooper bloopers that WRs have to wait on. The best strong armed QBs like Eli and Brady hit their guys in stride. Greater velocity allows them to throw a flatter arc. What's why people who keep blaming SJ for the drop against steelers got it wrong IMO. That ball was under thrown and SJ had to slow down and wait for it, almost catch behind him. That's really hard to do. Catch it in stride is the best way to deliver it. I think that's how young hit graham but I'd need to see a replay to verify. I think Stevie dropped it because he had enough time to think about whatever "special" TD celebration he had planned. That was an easy, uncontested catch with no concern about the ball placement, contact or keeping his feet in bounds. I dont understand why everyone is crapping on VY right now. The guy is starting fresh with a new playbook. Can you give him the whole off-season to get adjusted before you start calling him an idiot? I like Vince Young on this team and I hope is an effective plan B should he be needed. If the season is to end with a playoff appearance, chance is better than even that Vince Young helped to get them there. Having professor Chan to help rebuild his QB psyche might be the best chance he'll get and watching Fitz do his weekly preparation might help too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I think Stevie dropped it because he had enough time to think about whatever "special" TD celebration he had planned. That was an easy, uncontested catch with no concern about the ball placement, contact or keeping his feet in bounds. That's certainly possible, but the bigger reason Stevie dropped that was because he KNEW that we wouldn't have had the third pick in the draft to take Dareus is he DID make the catch. Heads-up play by Stevie J! GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I think Fitz has the arm to throw deep but he doesn't really have great touch on his deep ball. Doesn't throw it out in front of his WRs enough for them to make a play on it. Still I'd rather him in there from VY. If someone can find a video of the post chest injury throw Fitz made to CJ (which he dropped) against the Cowboys last year I'd like to take a look at again. This was ~60 yards up the right sideline, if I recall correctly, in stride with only the back of the endzone available to slow him down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SactoBillFan Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) Never in my 50 years as a fan have I seen so many people ignore a quarterbacks winning percentage. In my 50 years as a fan I have never seen a win column or a loss column for quarterbacks in an NFL boxscore. Winning percentage has been a "sexy" stat in recent years to argue about qb's. It's not baseball. Actually only 45 years, seems like 50 though. Edited August 22, 2012 by SactoBillFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 That's certainly possible, but the bigger reason Stevie dropped that was because he KNEW that we wouldn't have had the third pick in the draft to take Dareus is he DID make the catch. Heads-up play by Stevie J! GO BILLS!!! Maybe so. I would just like to point to some meaningful wins against good teams, either on the road or home, to shut some "fans" up that say Fitz can't do this or can't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Not calling anyone out specifically, but I think in some instances there's racism involved. Some still arent ready for a black QB. Non-sense.... The head case stuff come from an allegedly woeful Wonderlic score and lots of locker room and sideline drama he generated. It's not unfounded and not ethnically construed. The fawning over RG3 was nearly unanimous, and the board concensus today is if Darius and Von were gone,Cam would have been a bill, and TBD would have loved it. Look in the white house man, the race card is officially obsolete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Maybe so. I would just like to point to some meaningful wins against good teams, either on the road or home, to shut some "fans" up that say Fitz can't do this or can't do that. I share your frustration here. This assertion that the incomplete pass to SJ in the endzone in OT against the Steelers was somehow because of a poor throw is absolutely ridiculous. It's complete bullsh*t to suggest that but I have to consider the source. Fitz can make all the throws necessary in the NFL. His arm strength has never been in question. He has had accuracy issues and that's a fair criticism to make. But he's trending upward in a system that maximizes his abilities if last season is any indication. And he absolutely has to cut down on the INTs. Especially the "killer" INTs. I think that will come, too, if he's not asked to play catch-up as much. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I believe one of the keys to making the playoffs is opening up the passing game with a less predictable offense and this includes the long pass. Ryan Fitzpatrick is capable of the long pass but he rarely rolls out, is much better at reading a defense. Vince Young can throw the Ball 70 yards and is much better at scrambling to buy more time. Which quarterback can make the best use of the long pass & T. J. Graham ? I don't think there is any doubt that the long ball is not Fitz's strength. Having said that, there is no reason he shouldn't be able to use Graham's speed both deep and underneath. I'd expect to see him on plenty of screens. I believe its very doubtful that Graham will ever start as a wide out, he simply lacks the physicality and polish necessary. However he could be a good "special weapon" used out of the bills spread formation. He's the type of guy that needs to be wide open to do his thing, and I think Gailey will try to put him in that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 You didnt call him an idiot.. you just said that he couldnt use his brain. Is there really a difference? Yes he's had his issues in the past but lets give him a chance at a fresh start. Also I dont want you to feel like I was calling you out in particular, I feel like a lot of posters knock Vince for his smarts. I don't think VY gets knocked on for his smarts. He gets knocked on because he's dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 No I don't believe he can consistently extend the field or provide the defense with a credible deep threat they have to account for. His longer throws are looper Dooper bloopers that WRs have to wait on. The best strong armed QBs like Eli and Brady hit their guys in stride. Greater velocity allows them to throw a flatter arc. What's why people who keep blaming SJ for the drop against steelers got it wrong IMO. That ball was under thrown and SJ had to slow down and wait for it, almost catch behind him. That's really hard to do. Catch it in stride is the best way to deliver it. I think that's how young hit graham but I'd need to see a replay to verify. Like many i saw that Steelers replay many times. The ball to SJ was not underthrown by any stretch. In fact IMO it was one of Fitz's better thrown balls of his career. That made the drop all the more painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 What QB can make maximum use of Graham? This is an EASY question to answer. Losman. He sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenews Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Fitz =No VY = Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Never in my 50 years as a fan have I seen so many people ignore a quarterbacks winning percentage. Starting with the head coach and management of his drafting team, then the head coach and management of the team he played for last year. Why would that be? Nothing against VY and maybe he caught some tough breaks, but if winning percentage were a reasonable way to evaluate the quality of a QB, wouldn't the football PROFESSIONALS of two teams have held on to him? I wish we could put this idea that the W-L record of a TEAM Sport rests on the arm of the QB to bed. There are a few QB in the history of the game, a very very few, who can carry a team. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 What needs to happen is for Fitz to take shots downfield when Graham is open. Whether he connects (would be ideal) is less important than the threat of him connecting. This is the correct answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts