You want a position to worry about?

[boyst]

Which is how exactly? Let him make it up as he goes?

 

PTR

But...you don't know anything, maaan. It worked for him and Tebow and others in offense. He has balla skills. You can't match that. Imagine Vick on our team. VY can do that!

 

/sarcasm.

 

If we can get Vince Young to play QB and maintain a level of poise at the LOS we could have a backup. If he looks at the LOS and sees it as 11 hats then we are in trouble. The only way we can utilize his skillset is if we create it. Jeff Fisher was not as good at offense as Gailey and Lee is undouvtably better then whoever his QB coach was there.

[Reks Ryan]

Either somebody dropkicked my sarcasm meter in the throat, or you've been "misremembering" PTR's posts. His sarcasm towards those who truly are doom-and-gloom are nearing legendary status.

 

He's one of the most positive posters (in a weird, sarcastic way) on the board.

 

Also, your screen name is hindering any chance of you being taken seriously, just an FYI.

Of course it was sarcasm. The Bills Could find themselves at 1 - 5 with Brad Smith as the only healthy QB and I'd expect PTR to try and find a silver lining to give us hope for a playoff run. That's why it's so amazing to see a post giving us reason to worry during the most optimistic preseason in many years.

 

PTR - are you just a contrarian?

[boyst]

Of course it was sarcasm. The Bills Could find themselves at 1 - 5 with Brad Smith as the only healthy QB and I'd expect PTR to try and find a silver lining to give us hope for a playoff run. That's why it's so amazing to see a post giving us reason to worry during the most optimistic preseason in many years.

 

PTR - are you just a contrarian?

Your antics are growing tired on many and if I was PTR I would nor respond.

[thewildrabbit]

Which is how exactly? Let him make it up as he goes?

 

PTR

Did you actually read my post before posting a smart ass comment?

 

clearly you missed it the first time...Young still is a better viable option at back up or WC QB with a strong running game, and running to set up the pass. With what the author stated in utilizing more play action and bootlegs.

In other words, why would the coaches try and make a round peg fit into a square hole. Andy Reid didn't get it done in Philly with Vince Young trying to learn the WCO. However the difference is... that the Bills brought in Brad Smith last season 4 year 15 million to run the wildcat offense. Young is certainly the better option for running the WC. BTW Brad Smith is listed as the 4th or "other" after Thigpen and Young.

 

 

Like I stated in that first post, what happened to Tyler Thigpen? Isn't he the very same guy that Gailey coached back in 08 at KC?

[PromoTheRobot]

Did you actually read my post before posting a smart ass comment?

 

clearly you missed it the first time...Young still is a better viable option at back up or WC QB with a strong running game, and running to set up the pass. With what the author stated in utilizing more play action and bootlegs.

In other words, why would the coaches try and make a round peg fit into a square hole. Andy Reid didn't get it done in Philly with Vince Young trying to learn the WCO. However the difference is... that the Bills brought in Brad Smith last season 4 year 15 million to run the wildcat offense. Young is certainly the better option for running the WC. BTW Brad Smith is listed as the 4th or "other" after Thigpen and Young.

 

 

Like I stated in that first post, what happened to Tyler Thigpen? Isn't he the very same guy that Gailey coached back in 08 at KC?

I don't know why Thigpen is struggling now.

 

As for square pegs, round holes, etc, there comes a point where raw athleticism only gets you so far. Doug Flutie enjoyed that surprise factor for as few weeks. I'm sure if you threw VY in and let him do it his way he'd make some highlight reel plays.

 

But eventually the NFL catches on to your act. No player, no matter how athletic, can beat a properly executed defensive game plan. In fact I bet a player who relies on pure athleticism is the easiest to defend because his tendencies are simple to predict.

 

Chan Gailey is building an offense that allows for multiple results from similar formations. As hard as it is for a QB to master it's even harder to defend against because everything looks the same until the snap.

 

PTR

[paintmyhouse]

Hilarious to worry about backup QB when the starter has only led the team to 10 wins over the last 2 seasons. Big Deal.

[PromoTheRobot]

Hilarious to worry about backup QB when the starter has only led the team to 10 wins over the last 2 seasons. Big Deal.

Nothing gets by you, Vince Lomabardi.

 

PTR

[HOUSE]

Geeez, give it time, Its not even preseason yet

[ko12010]

Read between the lines of this quote from David Lee in Mark Gaughan's article this morning, talking about Vince Young and the backup QB battle:

 

"When you get a guy that's really great at something - and he's a great runner - it makes him exceptional and it makes him more difficult to defend, and it gives you a chance for more big plays," Lee said. "That's what we saw Sunday night. We're not discouraging that. It's something you can't coach."

 

My guess is that their thinking with Young is that they have a truly exceptional talent and they can teach him the other stuff. Chan did it with Kordell Stewart and Young is better than Kordell. Remember, people knock him for his intelligence too. It's sad that in 2012 that African-American QBs are still stereotyped as great athletes and short on intelligence. Actually, it's worse than sad, it's pathetic.

 

I actually think Vince Young may not be that intelligent. Not stereotyping. I think he'll win the backup job because he's shown he's a winner and with some reps will probably get his confidence back. We honestly may have to simplify the playbook if Fitz were to get hurt and Young had to come in. I think Young, with the coaches and teammates supporting him, will do fine.

 

Nothing gets by you, Vince Lomabardi.

 

PTR

 

 

Paintmyhouse has to be Trent Edwards, he just has to be. Or maybe he was a classmate at Harvard who Fitz beat on a test or something. Although, paintmyhouse seems like an idiot so I doubt he went to Harvard

[paintmyhouse]

Yes, I am Trent Edwards, makes perfect sense. Geez talk about calling someone an idiot.

[thewildrabbit]

I don't know why Thigpen is struggling now.

 

As for square pegs, round holes, etc, there comes a point where raw athleticism only gets you so far. Doug Flutie enjoyed that surprise factor for as few weeks. I'm sure if you threw VY in and let him do it his way he'd make some highlight reel plays.

 

But eventually the NFL catches on to your act. No player, no matter how athletic, can beat a properly executed defensive game plan. In fact I bet a player who relies on pure athleticism is the easiest to defend because his tendencies are simple to predict.

 

Chan Gailey is building an offense that allows for multiple results from similar formations. As hard as it is for a QB to master it's even harder to defend against because everything looks the same until the snap.

 

PTR

If Gailey were truly a megamind, then why hasn't Tyler Thigpen picked up on Gaileys quick strike offense yet? Why didn't Trent Edwards? why didn't Levi Brown? why didn't Brian Brohm? Can Brad Smith run it?

 

My take is Chan Gailey is taking credit for Fitz's ability to read the defense, and set protections, find the open WR in 1.5 to 3 seconds and deliver the ball. Because how is it that he can't get 6 other QB's to do what Fitz does and one of those 6 he worked with as his primary QB for an entire season.

 

 

The obvious solution is to simplify the offense for the back ups until they learn how to run it, and if they never learn...well, that is what the draft is for.

[John from Riverside]

The reason why I dont worry is because I believe if we ever have to turn to VY (and yeah I think he is gonna win the competition for backup) Chan is one of the best at tailoring his offense around the talent he has.....

 

They will dummy it down.....and do something where his athletisism and running ability will come into play.....they would have him make less reads etc etc etc

 

 

Im not worried.....but this is a position that really needs to be addressed in the next offseason. I really think that now we have our defense in order we need to start thinking about a QB of the future.

[billybrew1]

Well then, I guess it's good that we have 4 preseason games and almost 6 weeks until the season starts.

 

 

Nice.

[PromoTheRobot]

If Gailey were truly a megamind, then why hasn't Tyler Thigpen picked up on Gaileys quick strike offense yet? Why didn't Trent Edwards? why didn't Levi Brown? why didn't Brian Brohm? Can Brad Smith run it?

 

So let me get this straight...If Chan is so smart can't these other QBs run his offense? Uhhhh, maybe because they couldn't...and that's why they aren't here anymore?

 

My take is Chan Gailey is taking credit for Fitz's ability to read the defense, and set protections, find the open WR in 1.5 to 3 seconds and deliver the ball. Because how is it that he can't get 6 other QB's to do what Fitz does and one of those 6 he worked with as his primary QB for an entire season.

 

You may have hit on the very reason Fitz is our starter.

 

The obvious solution is to simplify the offense for the back ups until they learn how to run it, and if they never learn...well, that is what the draft is for.

 

So instead of making your offense harder to gameplan against, make it easier? And that is better how?

 

PTR

[Billshank Redemption]

Ill give it until the 2nd or 3rd game before I start freaking out

[Trader]

youtube.com/watch?v=xSLlZh9yelk

Yea .. no most would not feel that way about Russell Wilson.

[K-9]

 

... Chan Gailey proved to me last season with his constant calling for 4-5 WR spread, shotgun passing plays with an injured QB, one decent WR that he is no better then Turk Schonert or Alex Van Pelt. Because that is the exact same crap they both used to call all game long with JP Losman & Trent Edwards. Hey, you know what. Those two boneheads no longer in a coordinators job did better with 2 scrub broken QB's then megamind has done with Fitz, who everyone acknowledges is far and away a better QB then those 2. ...

 

There is little to no resemblance between Gailey's offense and anything run by Schonert or Van Pelt. And while I agree that Chan's play calling can leave a bit to be desired at times, I'm not convinced that Fitz is more responsible given the freedom he has in changing plays at the LOS.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited August 2, 2012 by K-9

[papazoid]

backup TIGHT END is even worse.....

 

 

quick.....can you even name who the 2nd & 3rd tight end is on the depth chart ?.......

[boyst]

backup TIGHT END is even worse.....

 

 

quick.....can you even name who the 2nd & 3rd tight end is on the depth chart ?.......

Chandler is the starter now with Fendi Onubun as backup since Lee Smith is the in line blocker and Dickerson is hardly a TE. Oh, and Causin is there with Brock.

Edited August 2, 2012 by jboyst62

[PromoTheRobot]

Gailey not happy with VY or Thigpen.

 

PTR

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I think it has more to do with VY having one of the lowest Wonderlic scores ever at the combine, but I guess its easier to just say that its because of the colour of his skin as to why people think he isn't smart

 

Thigpen ain't exactly splitting the atom out there either.

 

PTR

 

I agree 100%. I heard that in DC, Mike Shannahan hired a local rapper to come in and translate the playbook for RG III because he couldn't understand anything unless it was translated into urban slang for him. Being that he's regarded as so unintelligent and everything.

[dayman]

I don't hate Thig...but he's done nothing to separate himself from VY after being the offense and me having seen him play a little (only a little)...there is no way he wins the job. If Fitz goes down it'll be roll the dice on whatever the offense can do with VY whatever that may be and regardless of how different it looks from what we ordinarily try to do.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

whttahkiststrdabt?

[BiggieScooby]

We can always trade for Tebow. ; )

[ganesh]

Hilarious to worry about backup QB when the starter has only led the team to 10 wins over the last 2 seasons. Big Deal.

 

The failure of the Bills in the past seasons is a collective effort..You can't pin all the blame on those losses on Fitz's back...When your run defense sucks and is the worst in the league, you are already playing down by 7 points.

[Bufcomments]

Let me watch a preseason game, then we shall chat about backup QB.

[dayman]

We can always trade for Tebow. ; )

 

 

Haha, I should have kept a list of the Tebow people. Where are they now?

[thewildrabbit]

So let me get this straight...If Chan is so smart can't these other QBs run his offense? Uhhhh, maybe because they couldn't...and that's why they aren't here anymore?

 

 

 

You may have hit on the very reason Fitz is our starter.

 

 

 

So instead of making your offense harder to gameplan against, make it easier? And that is better how?

 

PTR

Whats with you PTR?

 

You call the guy megamind like he has accomplished something brilliant, and yet he has done nothing that Perry Fewell had already done the year previous in naming Fitz the starter over Edwards after he took over from Jauron. Don't forget that megamind CHOSE Edwards over Fitz in the preseason and started him in the regular season 2010 OVER Fitz !!!

 

The mere fact that Chan Gailey stated in the 2010 preseason that Brian Brohm, Trent Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick were all about equal, and then started Edwards in 2010 showed me that Chan Gailey is anything but a megamind

 

Megamind has won fewer games then the known moron Jauron, and he managed to do it with 2 broken QB's in Losman and Edwards. Megamind was also responsible for the switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4 and hiring a complete buffoon in George Edwards to run his defense. Then, even after his 1st year defense managed to become the worst defense in the 50 year history of the franchise he still kept him as his DC the next year.

 

I'd still like to know why Tyler Thigpen can't get this offense yet, considering that Gailey spent an entire year with him back in 08 at KC. This tells me that Gailey can't teach what Fitz knows as he failed in 6 other QB's so far.

 

 

 

To the last bolded part. Look what happened to the 49ers last season with a new HC and staff during a year with no off season workouts, no mini camps, a very short period of time to install a new offensive game plan. They simplified the offense for a QB that had a history of failure and yet the team went 12-4. Sometimes its smarter to simplify things and make it easier for the players to learn a limited number of plays so they can execute them perfectly. Bill Parcells stated that after his OC would install the game plan he would throw away all but about 25 plays that his QB felt comfortable with.

So simplifying the game plan for the back up or rookie QB is not unheard of and happens all the time.

 

Should you continue on this path of being Iridium minded on this subject I shall be forced to invoke SJBF's rule #2.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Whats with you PTR?

 

You call the guy megamind like he has accomplished something brilliant, and yet he has done nothing that Perry Fewell had already done the year previous in naming Fitz the starter over Edwards after he took over from Jauron. Don't forget that megamind CHOSE Edwards over Fitz in the preseason and started him in the regular season 2010 OVER Fitz !!!

 

The mere fact that Chan Gailey stated in the 2010 preseason that Brian Brohm, Trent Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick were all about equal, and then started Edwards in 2010 showed me that Chan Gailey is anything but a megamind

 

You have a valid point that in football, the "baby" is winning and so far Chan hasn't shown as much as Jauron in that area. And that's the fact. As is the fact that George Edwards did not seem to be the right guy for the job.

 

The QB analysis I think, goes more to show that it's hard to assess game-day qualities in shorts and during preseason. Both for better and for worse. The QB'ing in 2010 may also show that Gailey is "crazy like a fox". He had to build trust with Wilson and the FO. If he'd simply started Fitz, there would have been second-guessing all around esp when the team lost. Edwards started 2 games, and there was unanimous howling to get him out esp. when Fitz played better with the same guys. Still, all season there was an undercurrent of "Brohm, brohm, brohm". Gailey gave him a game, and there was no repining when he flew out of town (and where is he now?)

 

Should you continue on this path of being Iridium minded on this subject I shall be forced to invoke SJBF's rule #2.

 

This phrase inspired me to respond here. Explain or link please?

 

I do think the phrase "good is the enemy of great" does apply here. I think Jauron managed to take the cast of characters he had and get us to be "good" but we were never going to be "better".

Gailey came in and shook everything up and it caused us to regress for a while, but does anyone think the ceiling doesn't look higher now?

Edited August 2, 2012 by Hopeful

[CodeMonkey]

So instead of making your offense harder to gameplan against, make it easier? And that is better how?

Assuming you buy into the theory that the Bills offense is so complex that it takes a megamind to understand and execute it (which I do not, but just for the sake of discussion), the reason to dumb it down is very simple. Football players, with very few exceptions (Fitz being one), are physically gifted, but dumb. If Fitz is the only player on the team capable of grasping the scheme, the Bills are doomed. It's not just the QB that has to understand the system, the entire offense does. Add to that the possibility that Fitz could be injured for a couple games and the Bills would be lucky to get 5 wins (hey wait, how many wins did they average per season so far with Gailey in charge ??? ).

[Billsrhody]

Just to clear the air, a quote by NFL spokesman Steve Alic: "I can tell you absolutely that the score that has been reported on the Internet is inaccurate. I spoke to the person who graded the test, and he assured me that that number was not correct."[35] The next day, the test was properly readministered and Young scored a 16, the same as Dan Marino."

 

I think a good comparison is Kordell Stewart due to his obvious scrambling abilities and comparable wonderlic score of 14. This is what Kordell did in the year that Chan was his OC.

 

Passing:

54% cmp% 3020 yds 21 TDs 17 INTs

 

Rushing:

88 att 476 yds 5.4 avg 11 TDs

 

If anything, Vince is a superior passer to Kordell, so I think its reasonable to expect that he could put up similar numbers if he started a whole season.

 

Assuming you buy into the theory that the Bills offense is so complex that it takes a megamind to understand and execute it (which I do not, but just for the sake of discussion), the reason to dumb it down is very simple. Football players, with very few exceptions (Fitz being one), are physically gifted, but dumb. If Fitz is the only player on the team capable of grasping the scheme, the Bills are doomed. It's not just the QB that has to understand the system, the entire offense does. Add to that the possibility that Fitz could be injured for a couple games and the Bills would be lucky to get 5 wins (hey wait, how many wins did they average per season so far with Gailey in charge ??? ).

 

Also, it is widely known that Cam Newton was dealing with a simplified version of the Panthers playbook last year, which allowed him to fully grasp what he was working on and play with confidence because he actually knew all of the plays he was going to be running during a game. That's an example of a good time to "dumb down" your playbook and how it can be successful.

[paintmyhouse]

Bills are instantly better if they name Young the starter at QB.

[dollars 2 donuts]

Based on Chris Brown's practice notes, I'm more worried about LT. He wrote that Gailey "didn't sound all that pleased" with how things were going and from the other camp reports is appears that both Hairston and Glenn have been getting worked by the DL.

 

Getting worked by the defensive ends on this team isn't necssarily an indictment of poor blocking skills.

 

I am not about to call it steel sharpening steel between our LTs and DEs, but with a little time and as it was previously mentioned, 4 preseason games and 6 weeks, I think LT will be fine.

Edited August 2, 2012 by dollars 2 donuts

[caracara]

There's a theory that Fitz's cracked ribs effectively ended a good season last year. IMO if the exact same thing was to happen this year, but with a healthy VY to step in, the results would be much better. The blockers have to block and the receivers have to catch the ball. The RBs have to run hard. If all that is going on then the offense won't drop off much even if Vince only knows 70% of the playbook. I may be wrong, but I don't think any VY quarterbacked team has ever lost 4 games in a row with him as a starter.

 

Of course he has to beat out Thigpen just to earn the right to sit on the bench. If he does I think the Bills have the best 2nd team QB in the league.

[thewildrabbit]

You have a valid point that in football, the "baby" is winning and so far Chan hasn't shown as much as Jauron in that area. And that's the fact. As is the fact that George Edwards did not seem to be the right guy for the job.

 

The QB analysis I think, goes more to show that it's hard to assess game-day qualities in shorts and during preseason. Both for better and for worse. The QB'ing in 2010 may also show that Gailey is "crazy like a fox". He had to build trust with Wilson and the FO. If he'd simply started Fitz, there would have been second-guessing all around esp when the team lost. Edwards started 2 games, and there was unanimous howling to get him out esp. when Fitz played better with the same guys. Still, all season there was an undercurrent of "Brohm, brohm, brohm". Gailey gave him a game, and there was no repining when he flew out of town (and where is he now?)

 

 

 

This phrase inspired me to respond here. Explain or link please?

 

I do think the phrase "good is the enemy of great" does apply here. I think Jauron managed to take the cast of characters he had and get us to be "good" but we were never going to be "better".

Gailey came in and shook everything up and it caused us to regress for a while, but does anyone think the ceiling doesn't look higher now?

Get a grip willya...

 

The preseason is where you watch the players and determine if they are capable of doing the required job at their respective position. Chan Gailey had 4 preseason games to watch Edwards, Fitz, Brohm and he started Edwards. He chose Edwards because he obviously thought Edwards was the better QB. At the NFL level you don't try the guy you think is the second or third player to give them a shot. You start the guy who you think can play the best and win games for you.

 

 

 

 

http://forums.twobil...es/page__st__40

 

Bills are instantly better if they name Young the starter at QB.

How moronic!

 

Yea, tell that to Andy Reid. How dare he keep Trent Edwards on the roster and dump Vince Young

[Jauronimo]

I actually think Vince Young may not be that intelligent. Not stereotyping. I think he'll win the backup job because he's shown he's a winner and with some reps will probably get his confidence back. We honestly may have to simplify the playbook if Fitz were to get hurt and Young had to come in. I think Young, with the coaches and teammates supporting him, will do fine.

Racist!

[FleaMoulds80]

Yikes...Anyone hear what Chan had to say about our 2nd team offense? NOT GOOD.

[caracara]

Yikes...Anyone hear what Chan had to say about our 2nd team offense? NOT GOOD.

 

Don't worry about it. coaches say all kinds of things. They are usually doing more than just answering a reporters question.

[CodeMonkey]

Bills are instantly better if they name Young the starter at QB.

Not from what I've seen at camp so far.

[FleaMoulds80]

Don't worry about it. coaches say all kinds of things. They are usually doing more than just answering a reporters question.

 

Nooo...Chan's a straight shooter when it comes to answering questions. When things are going well, he'll admit it. When thigns are going bad he'll say it. He doesn't beat around the bush like most other coaches and doesn't sugar coat things. From what I've taken from his interviews is that he's not satisfied with the number 2 WR, QB and LT spots. Not good.