NoSaint Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You posted an inane "theory" in a much earlier thread about how the Bills were trying to teach Graham a lesson (or something like that) with their hardball negotiating, using where he "should" have been drafted as the basis for their offer. It was quickly pointed out to you that Graham's 3rd round status has much more to do with why he isn't signed than some huge $$ abyss the two sides haven't crossed, and it would be ridiculous for a team that traded up to select a player to then use his supposed draft "ranking" as a negotiating ploy. Everything just needs to sort itself out with these 3rd rounders. i clicked around a tiny bit on the issue for a refresher. essentially rounds 1 and 2 end up getting the full allotment for their slots while starting sometime in the 3rd round players start taking less than 100%. not huge gaps, but no one wants to be the one to say "im the first one not to get my full allotment." once that first guy takes it, the rest tend to fall in line accordingly. thats why you see late 3rd and on sign quicker - its already known they wont get 100%. honestly, for the few dollars different, i think its more a pride thing for the players and the agents that dont want to say they were the first guy that got stuck taking less than they could have. where that cutoff falls will move around a bit based on how hard teams and agents want to push the issue year to year. based on last year, it was obvious before the draft that a guy picked at this pick would be among the last ones signed. and yes, now that you mention it, i remember quite well how ridiculous joes earlier thread was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAWNDO Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 As a card-carrying member of the "football and negotiation expert committee" I will say this -- worrying about Graham's contract status, with three weeks to go before TC and knowing the guy has participated in EVERYTHING team-related to date, is really pointless. This is clearly about the odd "vacuum" created by the split between how rounds 1-2 are slotted, and how 4-7 have been slotted. Agents are doing their due diligence and making sure they don't shortchange their clients. And as others have already said, for a 3rd rounder it IS important to get as much as you can up front, because these picks are in a sort of "no man's land." They aren't the 1st and 2nd round studs, but they're also not the 4th and later "hopefuls." Anyway, I won't hold anything against TJ or his agent until and unless we get to July 26 and he's not in Pittsford. Good points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy10 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Graham's agent is cheap! They aren't the 1st and 2nd round studs, but they're also not the 4th and later "hopefuls." Exactly. Or as I like to put it, "Gettin' PAID" vs. "Happy to Be Here." TJ and his third round brethren are somewhere in the middle. Once someone at the top budges, the rest will fall like dominoes into a de facto slotting system. This isn't about greed or spite or anything else. These are the guys who probably won't be set for life with their rookie deals. I don't begrudge them or their agents at all for treading carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 This guy is a sure-fire Hall of Famer. Just pay him!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widerightradio Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 i clicked around a tiny bit on the issue for a refresher. essentially rounds 1 and 2 end up getting the full allotment for their slots while starting sometime in the 3rd round players start taking less than 100%. not huge gaps, but no one wants to be the one to say "im the first one not to get my full allotment." once that first guy takes it, the rest tend to fall in line accordingly. thats why you see late 3rd and on sign quicker - its already known they wont get 100%. honestly, for the few dollars different, i think its more a pride thing for the players and the agents that dont want to say they were the first guy that got stuck taking less than they could have. Not exactly. The hold up is over the 25% rule, whereby teams can increase a player's base salary by 25% each season. For the first pick in the third round, if the two sides were the maximum distance apart, this would mean a difference of around $300,000. From an article posted earlier in the thread: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/conflict-continues-between-agents-team-192009786--nfl.html For what it's worth, I'd wait a few weeks for $300k. Or $200k. Or... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Not exactly. The hold up is over the 25% rule, whereby teams can increase a player's base salary by 25% each season. For the first pick in the third round, if the two sides were the maximum distance apart, this would mean a difference of around $300,000. From an article posted earlier in the thread: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/conflict-continues-between-agents-team-192009786--nfl.html For what it's worth, I'd wait a few weeks for $300k. Or $200k. Or... Whats a hundred thousand dollars between friends? I mean what a self righteous asswipe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy10 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Whats a hundred thousand dollars between friends? I mean what a self righteous asswipe Well, you know what they say. $100k here, $100k there... Add it all up, and pretty soon you're talking about some real money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 And possibly the Jacksonville Jaguars? Nah, they always meant to draft a punter in the 3rd. It's their missing piece to go with Gabbert behind center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I just dont understand how you can be sour about a player "holing out" 3 weeks before TC. Luck and Griffin must be real dicks in your mind. Lots of 3rd rounders haven't signed yet. If this goes a week into camp ill be annoyed too, but we have 22 days until we even open camp. Im not worried To be fair, those players are #1, 1st round draft picks, TJ was lucky we picked him in the 3rd, his talents and possible upside afforded him a higher draft spot than his achievements in college did. I would just love to see players stop being so greedy when they still have so much to prove. The only reason I think Luck and Griffin are dicks are because they play for another team. I'm not worried about this pick, it has all the makings of Aaron Maybin 2.0 I'm more interested to see what develops on our roster that want to be here and earn a spot and his paycheck. If he is smart, he'll look at the likes of Freddie Jackson, Donald Jones, and Stevie Johnson and see that you need to get in here, work your tail off, and then the payday will come. My gut tells me that some of these guys hold out now because of the fear of not making it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 To be fair, those players are #1, 1st round draft picks, TJ was lucky we picked him in the 3rd, his talents and possible upside afforded him a higher draft spot than his achievements in college did. I would just love to see players stop being so greedy when they still have so much to prove. The only reason I think Luck and Griffin are dicks are because they play for another team. I'm not worried about this pick, it has all the makings of Aaron Maybin 2.0 I'm more interested to see what develops on our roster that want to be here and earn a spot and his paycheck. If he is smart, he'll look at the likes of Freddie Jackson, Donald Jones, and Stevie Johnson and see that you need to get in here, work your tail off, and then the payday will come. My gut tells me that some of these guys hold out now because of the fear of not making it... This may be TJ's first and only contract in the NFL. I don't blame him for trying to squeeze every last dollar of what isn't going to be a significant contract. Considering about half of the 3rd round still isn't signed, I'm even less angry about it. As for working hard, his position coach says he "works his butt off." He's also said he's a perfectionist. If he fails, it won't be for a lack of effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 For a guy everyone thought would be drafted in the fifth round he sure is holding out a long time on this. He didn't look like a world beater against our no name receiver corp in the OTA's. Hey TJ, how about showing something before playing hardball. I didn't know baseball was an option for him. Was he drafted by an MLB team? This will give him leverage if nothing else and some dudes just prefer baseball. He could have a long career there if he is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 To be fair, those players are #1, 1st round draft picks, TJ was lucky we picked him in the 3rd, his talents and possible upside afforded him a higher draft spot than his achievements in college did. I would just love to see players stop being so greedy when they still have so much to prove. The only reason I think Luck and Griffin are dicks are because they play for another team. I'm not worried about this pick, it has all the makings of Aaron Maybin 2.0 I'm more interested to see what develops on our roster that want to be here and earn a spot and his paycheck. If he is smart, he'll look at the likes of Freddie Jackson, Donald Jones, and Stevie Johnson and see that you need to get in here, work your tail off, and then the payday will come. My gut tells me that some of these guys hold out now because of the fear of not making it... a 23 year kid has a shot at an extra 100 thousand dollars and you want him to pass it up 3 weeks before TC? The average NFL career is 4 years regardless of draft position. I dont know how you can blame a guy for trying to get as much as he can in what could be his only NFL contract. Not to mention 3 rounders are the one spot in the draft that the fewest players have signed Im sure you never took the chance to get the most out of your own contracts at your job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FleaMoulds80 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 To be fair, those players are #1, 1st round draft picks, TJ was lucky we picked him in the 3rd, his talents and possible upside afforded him a higher draft spot than his achievements in college did. I would just love to see players stop being so greedy when they still have so much to prove. The only reason I think Luck and Griffin are dicks are because they play for another team. I'm not worried about this pick, it has all the makings of Aaron Maybin 2.0 I'm more interested to see what develops on our roster that want to be here and earn a spot and his paycheck. If he is smart, he'll look at the likes of Freddie Jackson, Donald Jones, and Stevie Johnson and see that you need to get in here, work your tail off, and then the payday will come. My gut tells me that some of these guys hold out now because of the fear of not making it... Sorry but that's the most asinine thing I've ever heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 How did I miss this awesome thread? I mean, we've got weeks to go before training camp starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 To be fair, those players are #1, 1st round draft picks, TJ was lucky we picked him in the 3rd, his talents and possible upside afforded him a higher draft spot than his achievements in college did. I would just love to see players stop being so greedy when they still have so much to prove. The only reason I think Luck and Griffin are dicks are because they play for another team. I'm not worried about this pick, it has all the makings of Aaron Maybin 2.0 I'm more interested to see what develops on our roster that want to be here and earn a spot and his paycheck. If he is smart, he'll look at the likes of Freddie Jackson, Donald Jones, and Stevie Johnson and see that you need to get in here, work your tail off, and then the payday will come. My gut tells me that some of these guys hold out now because of the fear of not making it... To be fair... I feel dumber for reading this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy10 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Well, I'm convinced. I am so f*#+ing done with this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Graham will sign if he can manage to hold onto the pen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 a bust. even before pads? I think we are a fair and rewarding team. Some of what Mckinleys koolaid is telling him is true. For me? If the kid is not at camp on day one. I will start to resent him. slowly. then quickly. Training camp is the marker. Till then i have the highest hopes and regard for the kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 a bust. even before pads? I think we are a fair and rewarding team. Some of what Mckinleys koolaid is telling him is true. For me? If the kid is not at camp on day one. I will start to resent him. slowly. then quickly. Training camp is the marker. Till then i have the highest hopes and regard for the kid. Shep missed the first day last year in the same situation. It's likely to push right onto that edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve O Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 FWIW, as of about 10 days ago, there were still 14 unsigned 3rd rounders… no other round has more than 3 unsigned draftees. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/conflict-continues-between-agents-team-192009786--nfl.html 14 unsigned first rounders as well (none of the top 8 have signed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Shep missed the first day last year in the same situation. It's likely to push right onto that edge. thats a shame about how the 3rd rounders have it rough. Yes i recall Kelvin story now. Maybe i should rein in my opinions a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Unsigned draft picks as of 7/5/12. Twenty teams have not completed contracts with all of their draft picks. Of those 20 teams, 13 have not signed their FIRST Round pick(s). Cleveland has TWO unsigned 1st rounders so yes, there are 14 1st Round picks that are unsigned. Note - they're not "holdouts" because Farggin' Training Camp hasn't opened up yet. Three SECOND Round picks have not been signed. Thirteen THIRD Round picks are holding out and refusing to negotiate with their teams because they're prima donnas and/or the Bills Front Office is cheap, cheap, cheap. A single FOURTH Round pick - Nick Toon WR (SAINTS) is holding out for any left-over dinner money that Loomis has budgeted to get Drew Brees into training camp on time. I count 31 unsigned players. In a 32 team league what are the odds that The Bills would have one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 To be fair... I feel dumber for reading this post. I'm glad I could do the impossible and make you even dumber.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Can everyone relax now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Can everyone relax now? That bouncy castle at the bottom of the cliff saved a few lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Proud to say I called this one last night: countdown thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widerightradio Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Can everyone relax now? I think what you meant was "Can everyone freak out about something else now?" With that in mind, I offer you the following options: 1) Wood's health, 2) Asper/Brown/Jasper for back-up guard, 3) Fitz's beard and its impact on his accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I think what you meant was "Can everyone freak out about something else now?" With that in mind, I offer you the following options: 1) Wood's health, 2) Asper/Brown/Jasper for back-up guard, 3) Fitz's beard and its impact on his accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSpeed Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I think what you meant was "Can everyone freak out about something else now?" With that in mind, I offer you the following options: 1) Wood's health, 2) Asper/Brown/Jasper for back-up guard, 3) Fitz's beard and its impact on his accuracy. Hey it's totally possible that Fitz's chin strap comes off and the wind blows his beard over his eyes in the middle of a play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I think what you meant was "Can everyone freak out about something else now?" With that in mind, I offer you the following options: 1) Wood's health, 2) Asper/Brown/Jasper for back-up guard, 3) Fitz's beard and its impact on his accuracy. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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