S Mark Barron discussion

[Mopreme]

Barron better be a smokescreen or else I see another Whitner mistake. Bills already have solid safetys in Byrd and Wilson. You stop Brady with pressure from d-line and linebackers, not improving secondary. He can pick any secondary apart. I agree, you take Kalil if he drops (I hope). Otherwise, you look for a trade down or pick Kuechly at 10. Rarely can you find every down linebacker who can tackle, blitz and cover. He is a beast and potential upgrade to any linebacker on the team.

[papazoid]

Barron better be a smokescreen or else I see another Whitner mistake. Bills already have solid safetys in Byrd and Wilson. You stop Brady with pressure from d-line and linebackers, not improving secondary. He can pick any secondary apart. I agree, you take Kalil if he drops (I hope). Otherwise, you look for a trade down or pick Kuechly at 10. Rarely can you find every down linebacker who can tackle, blitz and cover. He is a beast and potential upgrade to any linebacker on the team.

 

also Kuechly is 30 lbs heavier but just as fast as barron.

[BillsGuyInMalta]

The Bills aren't about smokescreens, at least not this regime. This regime starts the fire and then tells you how many sticks they used and what type of lighter fluid was selected. They showed early interest in Stanford Routt before FA began, indicating they want help at secondary. Buddy likes multiple-year starters on Southern schools and people he brought in for a visit.

 

I know so many Bills fans dont want to believe this, but the reality of the situation is it wont be Floyd or an OT or Kuechly. The Bills have almost gone out and said as much when they talk about how "deep" all of those positions are in the Draft while mentioning that the "secondary" needs help. Not CBs need help, but "secondary".

 

Its going to be Barron.

[KOKBILLS]

Im so sick of seeing this argument, and people referencing the Bills history of picking DBs early.

 

ITS A NEW, COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FRONT OFFICE. NEW SCOUTS. NEW GM. NEW/DIFFERENT EVERYTHING

 

The "they" you refer to arent even allowed in the building at OBD anymore. Get over it. Move on. That past has nothing to do with the current team, or building plan.

 

 

Really?...That's brand new information I had no idea...

 

The "they" I referred to was The Buffalo Bills...This is a Buffalo Bills Message Board...I'm giving my opinion on the Buffalo Bills...

 

Nice CAPS btw...Excitable much? Oh and and that little smiley I had after that statement...That's for sarcasm...You know...When someone is kind of kidding, or half kidding...Get to know your smiley's...They are your friends...

Edited April 25, 2012 by KOKBILLS

[SRivRoc]

I like Barron, BUT IF THE BILLS DRAFT HIM ID BE DEVESTATED!!! I really want kuechly or gilmore...I know Barron is projected to cover the tough tight ends in our division but Barron isn't a cover safety!!! Barron is a box safety and is used more for tackles within five yards of the line and the blitz, he isn't that impressive in coverage considering who he's going against with a great D...Im not saying he won't succeed in the league but I just think he's not the right pick for Buffalo, possibly a smokescreen so we can trade for more picks to a team like Dallas or San Diego since they both love him, besides our safeties are great why keep adding to a bottleneck position group?

Super Bowl or Bust

GO BILLS!!!

[Mopreme]

Barron is injury prone. Even worst, what do you with Wilson, bench him? The senator was one, if not, the best defensive player last year. Barron is a terrible pick at 10. Kalil or Kuechly are the picks if available.

[VirginiaMike]

smoke screen

 

it will the ND receiver or the BC backer

Hope so -- My first two choices, unless by a miracle Kahil falls to 10, which I doubt.

[Shoutbox]

The Bills aren't about smokescreens, at least not this regime. This regime starts the fire and then tells you how many sticks they used and what type of lighter fluid was selected. They showed early interest in Stanford Routt before FA began, indicating they want help at secondary. Buddy likes multiple-year starters on Southern schools and people he brought in for a visit.

 

I know so many Bills fans dont want to believe this, but the reality of the situation is it wont be Floyd or an OT or Kuechly. The Bills have almost gone out and said as much when they talk about how "deep" all of those positions are in the Draft while mentioning that the "secondary" needs help. Not CBs need help, but "secondary".

 

Its going to be Barron.

 

You are probably right, my Buffalo Bills brother! Barron may even be as high as #6 on Buddy's draft board, right after the big 5 (Luck, Griffin, Blackmon, Kalil, Claiborne). If Barron is going to do a better job of stopping the Gronkowski's of the NFL than Kuechly, then I am all for him!

 

As a side note, my friend Gary is a huge Cowboys fan. He has been talking **** to me for over 30 years about Dallas. I would love NOTHING more than seeing the Bills take Barron before they get a chance! Muhahahahahahaha! Buffalo Bills, talkin' proud, talkin' proud! !@#$ yeah! Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!

[billnutinphoenix]

If the Eagles and Cowboys want this guy so bad, how bad can he be?

[Wayne Cubed]

Its funny but JoeB didn't even hear the Bills were interested in Barron from the Bills.

 

"The way I understand things, a league source says the Bills are said to be very high on both Barron and Gilmore"

 

So basically JoeB heard from someone who heard from someone... sounds pretty reliable to me.

 

FWIW, Walker on ESPN says this has smokescreen written all over.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Wayne Cubed

[Lurker]

Really...That's brand new information I had no idea...

It seems to be to a disapointing percentage of posters here.

 

If you avoided positions that had been first round busts in years past, all you could draft are kickers...

[KOKBILLS]

It seems to be to a disapointing percentage of posters here.

 

If you avoided positions that had been first round busts in years past, all you could draft are kickers...

 

True...But I'm uncertain as to why a regime that so far is 10-22 is beyond scrutiny at this point?...I'm not as optimistic about this Scouting Dept., and the thought process, as others...And I'm not a pessimist...Just a realist...I give Buddy his due...I know he knows football, but he comes across to me at least as being a little to smug...I'm just not sure I trust his judgement Draft-wise...And maybe it is just me...IMHO they are 1-1 in the Draft, with the one victory coming mainly due to a pick my 5 year old Niece could have made (Dareus)...So...Just saying...

Edited April 25, 2012 by KOKBILLS

[Coach Tuesday]

If Barron is the pick, I'd be more pissed about the fact that it was telegraphed than about the pick itself.

[shibuya]

LMAO at people upset if we drafted Barron.. he would definitely help this team. He has a great character record, and he has no weaknesses in his game.

[BuffaloRebound]

If Barron is the pick, I'd be more pissed about the fact that it was telegraphed than about the pick itself.

 

I think Bills truly like Barron and would take him at #10, but prefer trading down and are telling Cowboys and Eagles that Barron isn't gonna be there for them at #14 or #15 unless they trade up.

[KOKBILLS]

and he has no weaknesses in his game.

 

If you believe that I've got some awesome Real Estate you may be interested in...

[richNjoisy]

Barron is a heck of a player

 

and it still makes no sense to take him

 

The bills wont take him.....not with the safeties we already have on our roster

 

I agree John. I particularly liked yesterday's email fan "press conference" where Buddy's responses were interpreted every which way. Other than his comment that "it is unlikely we will draft a TE" - most of his responses could and should have been heard as "maybe and I ain't gonna tell y'all anything else" to any question which started as "could you select "BLANK" "

 

I see no reason to select a safety in round 1. Not with Byrd and Wilson being on the team and having played well with basically no pass rush for years. In fact, the Bills DID have a pass rush early in the season (Merriman IMO was being held on practically every play especially in the Cheatriot's game) and lookie lookie at all the INT's. I like Keuchly to "clean up the mess" (make a zillion tackles) or Floyd to open the field for Stevie. Ifthe Bills go OT, I am o.k. since I feel you can never have too many competent OT's. If they draft Gilmore, I sure hope he is REALLY good.

 

-RnJ

Edited April 25, 2012 by richNjoisy

[auburnbillsbacker]

Here is Greg Cossel's opinion. The guy watches more film than anyone on the net.

 

Barron is easily the best safety in this draft class. His tape showed a complete and multi-dimensional skill set, perhaps the most impressive attribute being his man-to-man coverage ability versus tight ends. He also played man-to-man against the inside slot receiver in 3×1 sets. The larger point is that Barron can play man coverage, and that has become increasingly important for safeties in today's NFL. Overall Barron offers tremendous scheme and position versatility. Safety has still not reached premium status in terms of NFL draft value, but I would argue that Barron is one of the 5 to 7 best players in this draft

Edited April 25, 2012 by auburnbillsbacker

[poo]

Chris Brown mocks Barron to the Bills

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Chris-Browns-2012-Mock-Draft/6340ae74-bb8c-464d-bae1-e99cbdb87aab

[KOKBILLS]

Here is Greg Cossel's opinion. The guy watches more film than anyone on the net.

 

Barron is easily the best safety in this draft class. His tape showed a complete and multi-dimensional skill set, perhaps the most impressive attribute being his man-to-man coverage ability versus tight ends. He also played man-to-man against the inside slot receiver in 3×1 sets. The larger point is that Barron can play man coverage, and that has become increasingly important for safeties in today's NFL. Overall Barron offers tremendous scheme and position versatility. Safety has still not reached premium status in terms of NFL draft value, but I would argue that Barron is one of the 5 to 7 best players in this draft

 

I'm not sure there has EVER been more differing opinions on a prospect than with Barron...

 

CBS Sports - "He appears to have good, but not great, speed and was rarely put in a position where he had to cover a slot receiver man to man."

 

"Man Coverage: Not often asked to drop down and cover the slot in this scheme. Is a bit stiff in the hips and has only average change of direction. Does show a late burst to close on the football. "

 

Bill Polian - "a box safety who plugs the run but struggles in coverage."

 

Pro Football Weekly - "Saban wisely protected him in coverage as a senior and allowed him to excel in the box, where he is most physical and consistently shows up in run support. However, he showed he possessed enough range off the hash as a junior and is capable of becoming an interchangeable back-half defender. "

 

National Football Post - "Has the makings of a heck of a special teams player who can also attack downhill vs. the run game, play inside the box and drive on the football in front of him in the pass game. Isn't going to be a major threat turning and tracking the football."

 

"Demonstrates above-average ball skills in man coverage and uses his length well to make plays on the football. However, anytime he's asked to re-direct and/or turn and run he will struggle with his balance. Is a little tighter in the hips because of size and when forced to turn and run, gets upright and doesn't reach top end speed quickly. However, did a much better job as a senior keeping his feet under him and collecting himself when asked to go up and make a play on the football. Makes a lot of calls in the secondary and has improved his instincts when feeling routes develop around him as a senior as well."

 

Sideline Scouting - "Has stiffness in hips and lack of fluidity in deep coverage, projects best as a strong safety in the NFL... Coverage skills are average at best, does not have elite range in zone coverage, not fluid enough to run with a lot of slot receivers in the NFL... Change of direction ability is questionable, does not have the quickest feet, can play high at times... Will bite on play action at times when playing in the box, definitely a run-first defender, may be relegated to two-down run stopping early in career... Can be too aggressive at times, tends to take bad angles when flying around the field, will miss tackles in the open field... Lacks elite explosiveness, lack of quickness may be the biggest factor, needs to work on changing directions with more leverage and fluidity..

 

That's just a few I've read...One thing is certain though about Barron...Most every Scout feels he will be an excellent SS vs. the run...How he's going to fit into the passing game is where the difference in opinions really come out...

Edited April 25, 2012 by KOKBILLS

[Alphadawg7]

If the Eagles and Cowboys want this guy so bad, how bad can he be?

 

And NE and SD as well as a bunch of other teams...

[KOKBILLS]

I agree John. I particularly liked yesterday's email fan "press conference" where Buddy's responses were interpreted every which way. Other than his comment that "it is unlikely we will draft a TE" - most of his responses could and should have been heard as "maybe and I ain't gonna tell y'all anything else" to any question which started as "could you select "BLANK" "

 

I see no reason to select a safety in round 1. Not with Byrd and Wilson being on the team and having played well with basically no pass rush for years. In fact, the Bills DID have a pass rush early in the season (Merriman IMO was being held on practically every play especially in the Cheatriot's game) and lookie lookie at all the INT's. I like Keuchly to "clean up the mess" (make a zillion tackles) or Floyd to open the field for Stevie. Ifthe Bills go OT, I am o.k. since I feel you can never have too many competent OT's. If they draft Gilmore, I sure hope he is REALLY good.

 

-RnJ

 

Agreed...I just think for The Bills to pick Barron at this time they are basically compiling talent and not building a Team...No one can convince me that Barron will have a bigger impact on this Team as it stands now than Kuechly, Floyd, or Gilmore...My feeling is he's a SS...And there's no way I'm taking a SS at #10...Especially when I have a decent one, AND I just Drafted one in the 4th Round last year...And they both played OK with basically zero pass rush...

 

Now Barron may come in and prove me completely wrong...That's why this is so much fun right?...

 

But I just don't see why we are even thinking SS at this point for this team at #10...Makes no sense to me whatsoever...But that's JMO...

[Alphadawg7]

Here is Greg Cossel's opinion. The guy watches more film than anyone on the net.

 

Barron is easily the best safety in this draft class. His tape showed a complete and multi-dimensional skill set, perhaps the most impressive attribute being his man-to-man coverage ability versus tight ends. He also played man-to-man against the inside slot receiver in 3×1 sets. The larger point is that Barron can play man coverage, and that has become increasingly important for safeties in today's NFL. Overall Barron offers tremendous scheme and position versatility. Safety has still not reached premium status in terms of NFL draft value, but I would argue that Barron is one of the 5 to 7 best players in this draft

 

And guess what Byrd, Wilson, and Searcy are not good at...all of the above. So, as much as people think we are set at Safety, Barron's potential to better cover the Gronk, Hernandez, Keller, and Fasano just in our division would be a huge impact to our D. TE has become a prominent position since Gonzo and Gates dominated, and we can't cover a TE better than my mother could right now. I love Byrd and Wilson, but truth be told, they were pretty inconsistent and weak at covering the slot and the TE, which is two of the areas Barron is said to excel at.

 

So, I would be fine with Barron. Also, I would love Kuchely but I don't think LB is as pressing as people think. With Wanny there, I think Morrisson becomes a sold contributor this year and if Merriman is gonna be 100% finally like he has been saying (thats still a crap shoot obviously until he proves it on the field) then I think those 3 could form a pretty good unit given the talent in the front 4.

 

DB also would not surprise me at #10, but I think Barron grades out higher than the DB's available at #10.

[KOKBILLS]

And NE and SD as well as a bunch of other teams...

 

Agreed...But some Teams have HUGE needs at Safety and Barron is clearly the best Safety in a REAL thin Safety class...I think most of these Teams would LOVE to have Wilson and Searcy too...It's all relative to need...Unless you're The Buffalo Bills of course...

[Alphadawg7]

Agreed...I just think for The Bills to pick Barron at this time they are basically compiling talent and not building a Team...No one can convince me that Barron will have a bigger impact on this Team as it stands now than Kuechly, Floyd, or Gilmore...My feeling is he's a SS...And there's no way I'm taking a SS at #10...Especially when I have a decent one, AND I just Drafted one in the 4th Round last year...And they both played OK with basically zero pass rush...

 

Now Barron may come in and prove me completely wrong...That's why this is so much fun right?...

 

But I just don't see why we are even thinking SS at this point for this team at #10...Makes no sense to me whatsoever...But that's JMO...

 

Because no one on our team covered Gronk, Keller, Welker, Hernandez, Fasano, etc...and those are just our divisional foes.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Alphadawg7

[Lurker]

But I just don't see why we are even thinking SS at this point for this team at #10...Makes no sense to me whatsoever...But that's JMO...

If they go Barron, it's be because they think he's this guy:

 

"Nix said "if you can get a guy who can start for you for 10 or 12 years, you'd have a good pick." And he has tried to convince every reporter and his dog that "we won't reach. We won't go past a playmaking guy that we've got graded higher to go down the board just to fill a position need. We won't do that. I've tried it. It doesn't work. We'll take the best player."

[Bufcomments]

Well if you want to stop Brady (and i totally agree with you that's what we need to do given we will see them 2 to 3 times like you said) then Barron will have more impact than Gilmore because our safeties proved they can not cover either TE's at all and Welker went anywhere he wanted inside all day. Barron will be a much bigger factor in the pats games if he lives up to his potential.

are you saying that Barron can cover Gronk and Hernandez??

 

If he can I will agree to the pick.

[KOKBILLS]

Because no one on our team covered Gronk, Keller, Welker, Hernandez, Fasano, etc...and those are just our divisional foes.

 

Nobody rushed the passer either in those games...The QB's had all day...So was it the chicken or the egg? Either way if I though Barron was actually that guy...the guy who could come in a blanket a TE I would be AOK with it...but I'm not convinced he is...In fact I'm not convinced Barron would be that much more effective than Kuechly in that respect...And I think LB is a bigger need...I think The Bills have MUCH bigger Needs than SS...But maybe it's just me...I don't know...

 

I'm just going to have to see if Barron can do it...Because there are PLENTY of NFL experts who think he can, and plenty who think he can't...We'll see...

[Alphadawg7]

Nobody rushed the passer either in those games...The QB's had all day...So was it the chicken or the egg? Either way if I though Barron was actually that guy...the guy who could come in a blanket a TE I would be AOK with it...but I'm not convinced he is...In fact I'm not convinced Barron would be that much more effective than Kuechly in that respect...And I think LB is a bigger need...I think The Bills have MUCH bigger Needs than SS...But maybe it's just me...I don't know...

 

I'm just going to have to see if Barron can do it...Because there are PLENTY of NFL experts who think he can, and plenty who think he can't...We'll see...

 

I agree, and I am not saying Barron must be the pick...I am just saying if he is the pick because he excels at coverage in the slot and the TE's, then I am going to trust Nix and Co's evaluation of those skills and hope they are right and support the pick. Because lord knows we need help there, always have, and those roles are fast becoming key areas of opposing offenses and we play in a division where every team (but us) has a Pro Bowl level TE. Fasano would have made the Pro Bowl this next year if Mia had landed Manning...Keller is a Pro Bowl talent playing with a inconsistent QB...Hernandez would be a Pro Bowler if Gronk was not there...

 

We need help there, and if Barron can help then I say take him. Personally I love Kuchely there too and would happy with that pick too. I don't think they should go DB there though, I think we can get one in 2nd that will be pretty good prospect too. I really think its gonna be either Kuchely or Barron unless someone slips (Blackmon, Kalil, or Tannehill I could all see being picked if they slip...just hope its not Tannehill as he is the riskiest guy of all the guys we are rumored to love at #10).

 

Barnett, Morrission, and a healthy Merriman (have to wait and see, but he says its the best hes felt and he will be 100% for first time in years) is a pretty good LB core...add in some of our other guys like Moats, and I dont think LB is as bad as people think. That being said, Kuchely would still be a great pick and would still love that pick.

[Bufcomments]

Because no one on our team covered Gronk, Keller, Welker, Hernandez, Fasano, etc...and those are just our divisional foes.

Your right about this but to me Floyd and Gilmore would make the team better also

[Kevin]

Ya know, even when I didn't like the pick (Spiller), I still will put all of my faith into what Buddy is doing. After all, he knows a hell-of-a-lot more than I do. If Barron is the pick then I will be ecstatic.

[Wayne Cubed]

Barnett, Morrission, and a healthy Merriman (have to wait and see, but he says its the best hes felt and he will be 100% for first time in years) is a pretty good LB core

 

Sorry but I have been saying this ad naseum. Merriman is NOT going to be a LB in the 4-3. He's said it. The Bills have said it. Hell even buffalobills.com has him listed as DE.

 

He will be a DE.

 

Rushing OLB in a 3-4 generally will be a DE in a 4-3 and vice versa.

[Bufcomments]

Nobody rushed the passer either in those games...The QB's had all day...So was it the chicken or the egg? Either way if I though Barron was actually that guy...the guy who could come in a blanket a TE I would be AOK with it...but I'm not convinced he is...In fact I'm not convinced Barron would be that much more effective than Kuechly in that respect...And I think LB is a bigger need...I think The Bills have MUCH bigger Needs than SS...But maybe it's just me...I don't know...

 

I'm just going to have to see if Barron can do it...Because there are PLENTY of NFL experts who think he can, and plenty who think he can't...We'll see...

i agree with you

 

if Kuechly is 30 pounds heavier and can do the same thing won't we be better of with him?

[dpberr]

Mark Barron=David DeCastro.

 

I wouldn't hate this pick but I wouldn't love it either. We have good, possibly great safeties already. Just adding on to the pile.

 

There are outstanding players at positions of need.

[KOKBILLS]

If they go Barron, it's be because they think he's this guy:

 

"Nix said "if you can get a guy who can start for you for 10 or 12 years, you'd have a good pick." And he has tried to convince every reporter and his dog that "we won't reach. We won't go past a playmaking guy that we've got graded higher to go down the board just to fill a position need. We won't do that. I've tried it. It doesn't work. We'll take the best player."

 

No question you're right...I just don't know if I think they're right...

 

And I realize it's JMO...It's hard for me to believe they have Barron that much higher rated than others that may be available...For example, I'm not sure I've seen a single Big Board that has Barron rated ahead of Kuechly, and at least to me LB is a bigger need on this team...But maybe they do have Barron WAY ahead of Kuechly...We'll see...

[Kelly the Dog]

I've read most of this thread but not all of it, but the more I think of it, here is the only way that Barron works for me, even though I think he is an excellent player. It works if in the passing situations, Barron plays that Bryan Scott position and it keeps Wilson on the field as the roaming SS which he is very good at when there is a pass rush. Scott is decent and I am glad we re-signed him, but he is not the killer that Barron is. Barron is also a very good blitzer and he could cover the short zones RBs and TEs against NE (Scott was abused against NE last year). This also solves part of the need for another LB. Not that Barron is big enough to play LB but he is more of an up in the box safety anyway. The big safety defense with Barron in there on pass plays works for me, and he can play the run downs ahead of Wilson in the deep secondary.

[TheBuffaloBills]

Even though I think Barron will be the better player in the NFL, I hope we draft Gillmore over Barron if they want to go DB. I think Byrd and Wilson (Who have some pretty solid playing time together) is a better combo than Byrd and Barron as a rookie. Also, drafting Barron probably won't help the chances of Byrd resigning with us. However, I still think the best player that will be there at 10 that will also fit a need is Kuechly

[Alphadawg7]

Sorry but I have been saying this ad naseum. Merriman is NOT going to be a LB in the 4-3. He's said it. The Bills have said it. Hell even buffalobills.com has him listed as DE.

 

He will be a DE.

 

Rushing OLB in a 3-4 generally will be a DE in a 4-3 and vice versa.

 

They can list him at whatever they want, but Merriman IMO will see more time this year as an outside rushing line backer than DE. If Merriman is 100% again, he is bonafied starter in this league, he is not going to delegated to the bench behind Williams and Anderson and be used sparringly. His talent level (assuming he is healthy) will keep him on the field, so that means OLB. He may not be all 3 downs, or may focus on clear passing downs, but Williams and Anderson are already pass rush specialists, so that means to be on the field he will be rushing from the OLB.

 

FYI: What you are listed at means on the teams website has very little to do with where you play on the field...I mean Brad Smith was a QB and used a WR primarily...Spiller was a RB used more as a WR prior to FJ injury...just to name a few.

[Lurker]

No question you're right...I just don't know if I think they're right...

 

And I realize it's JMO...It's hard for me to believe they have Barron that much higher rated than others that may be available...For example, I'm not sure I've seen a single Big Board that has Barron rated ahead of Kuechly, and at least to me LB is a bigger need on this team...But maybe they do have Barron WAY ahead of Kuechly...We'll see...

Bill Parcels ended his ESPN draft show last night with two points:

 

1.) Don't ever wait for someone to tell you you're right about who you pick.

 

2.) Go by what your eyes tell you, not what you hear.

 

To me, that's Buddy's approach to drafting in a nutshell (and not the clusterfuc prior GM's like Donahoe, Marv, et al seemed to follow). I can easily see him gravitating to Barron, even if it's not an apparent need. And avoiding guys like Kalil or Kuechly that draftnics and the media have loved for a long time...

 

Then again, it could just as easily be Gilmore, since it would be an against-the-wind choice as well...

[PIZ]

Well if you want to stop Brady (and i totally agree with you that's what we need to do given we will see them 2 to 3 times like you said) then Barron will have more impact than Gilmore because our safeties proved they can not cover either TE's at all and Welker went anywhere he wanted inside all day. Barron will be a much bigger factor in the pats games if he lives up to his potential.

 

This is 100% correct. For anyone that disaggrees, you just don't remember Brady marching up the field throwing to wide open TEs all day. It was embarrassing.