So, where's this "new NFL" I keep hearing about?

[maddenboy]

I have been clamoring here for some Linebackers in this draft. Pass rushers and run stuffers.

 

Recently, i've been swayed a little by the posts (Peter King and others) about the New NFL being about "pass and stop the pass."

 

After this weekend, I think we see that Power, Big Man football still can win. Even over powerhouses like Packers and Saints.

 

I was warming to drafting a WR in the first, but now I just want pass rush and more pass rush. After that, some more pass rush, please.

[zonabb]

Balance, you need balance. BUT... the winners in all four games this weekend averaged 34.5 points. So offense sill matters because you can't win anymore with a super defense, as I am sure we'll see this coming week when the Pats offense outshines the Ravens defense.

 

I think for the Bills, the do need pass rush immediately because any move toward the playoffs is going to require improvement on defense, as well as offense.

[mrags]

I was just about to make a new post stating similar facts. The facts are... The better defensive teams won 3 out of 4 games this weekend. I'd bet on defense winning again next weekend as well and then in the SB.

[syrcuse315]

If there is one thing to take away from these games its the pass rush. These quarterbacks could sit in the pocket all day so frequently that it doesn't matter how good your DB's are they will eventually get beat. A Pass rush makes everyone's life easier and forces turnovers.

[Dragonborn10]

Rush the passer that is the modern NFL defense. Stop the run while rushing the passer. We need at least two pass rushers in FA or from the draft to add to the front seven...

[bobobonators]

Balance, you need balance. BUT... the winners in all four games this weekend averaged 34.5 points. So offense sill matters because you can't win anymore with a super defense, as I am sure we'll see this coming week when the Pats offense outshines the Ravens defense.

 

I think for the Bills, the do need pass rush immediately because any move toward the playoffs is going to require improvement on defense, as well as offense.

 

Very well said. The 49ers didn't really "stop" the saints, so I'm not sure what defense the OP is referring to. The 49ers simply scored last..does anyone really think that the 49ers defense would've stopped Brees if there were another 2 minutes on the clock?

 

Exactly how many 14 - 3 games have their been in these playoffs?

 

Stating that the NFL is a passing league is beyond cliche - it's a simple fact. So, defensively, what's the best way to defend the pass: rush the passer. Pass rush also = INT's. Truly simple stuff.

 

The IDEAL NFL recipe for success today is no longer run the ball, and stop the run...no, it's PASS THE BALL, AND RUSH THE PASSER. That's the new NFL..and the playoffs keep reinforcing the change.

 

So defense is still needed today, but it's a defense that focuses on creating pressure on the QB, and not so much on stopping the run. Such a defense though is prone to the big play due to blitzes and man on man, etc...hence, the huge offensive games that we see...at the same time though, that same kind of pass rushing defense will get 5/6 sacks and a couple of forced fumbles perhaps...so statistically the defense will have a bad game but still create big plays that help you win.

[maddenboy]

Very well said. The 49ers didn't really "stop" the saints, so I'm not sure what defense the OP is referring to. The 49ers simply scored last..does anyone really think that the 49ers defense would've stopped Brees if there were another 2 minutes on the clock?

 

Exactly how many 14 - 3 games have their been in these playoffs?

 

Stating that the NFL is a passing league is beyond cliche - it's a simple fact. So, defensively, what's the best way to defend the pass: rush the passer. Pass rush also = INT's. Truly simple stuff.

 

The IDEAL NFL recipe for success today is no longer run the ball, and stop the run...no, it's PASS THE BALL, AND RUSH THE PASSER. That's the new NFL..and the playoffs keep reinforcing the change.

 

So defense is still needed today, but it's a defense that focuses on creating pressure on the QB, and not so much on stopping the run. Such a defense though is prone to the big play due to blitzes and man on man, etc...hence, the huge offensive games that we see...at the same time though, that same kind of pass rushing defense will get 5/6 sacks and a couple of forced fumbles perhaps...so statistically the defense will have a bad game but still create big plays that help you win.

Good point.

 

Pass rush is never out of style. Buffalo needs to get much more stylish.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

The bad news is that the Bills have zero edge rushers.

 

The good news is that the Bills have two very good inside pass rushers.

 

Kyle Williams led us in sacks in 2010 and Dareus led us in sacks in 2011.

 

The best-case scenario is that Williams comes back healthy and that he and Dareus give us good push and disruption and that Merriman can give us a decent secondary edge rusher after we acquire a true upper tier edge rusher in the draft or in free agency.

[BobChalmers]

If there is one thing to take away from these games its the pass rush. These quarterbacks could sit in the pocket all day so frequently that it doesn't matter how good your DB's are they will eventually get beat. A Pass rush makes everyone's life easier and forces turnovers.

 

Amen.

 

And seriously - when you consider just how AWFUL the Bills' passrush was this season, you have to think they really aren't that far away. They were doing most everything else fairly well.

 

Not that adding passrush talent is trivial - every team wants more - but still... Add just two good players at OLB and this team is an entirely different animal.

[Geno Smith's Arm]

It's about scoring lots of points, and creating turnovers. It's not about stopping the run. Big play defense is essential,that demands a different attitude. There are big play-type guys versus solid defenders. There was a lot of scoring this weekend, no? That doesn't really fit with the "Defense wins championships" bromide.

[mrags]

Very well said. The 49ers didn't really "stop" the saints, so I'm not sure what defense the OP is referring to. The 49ers simply scored last..does anyone really think that the 49ers defense would've stopped Brees if there were another 2 minutes on the clock?

So what your saying is that if there was a defense good enough to stop Brees IF he had a chance to get the ball back then they would have won anyway?

 

Or were you saying that if New Orleans defense was good enough to stop San Fransciscos offense at tebend then they would have won.

 

Just wondering what your point was???

 

There's no one way to win in the NFL anymore. As of right now, 3 of the 4 teams remaining in the playoffs just beat teams that had better offenses and it wasn't even close.

 

I'm not saying that offense can't and won't win games, I'm just saying it's not so simple. Let's not forget about the fact that most people on here (not saying that's you) that believe in the "new age NFL" usually believe you need an absolute stud QB. A QB so good that they are potential HOF candidates. Look at the names mostentuoned on this board when we all dispute it, Brees, Manning, Brady, Rothlesberger, Rodgers. The fact is these QBs don't grow on trees. Alex Smith, Eli Manning and Joe Flacco are 3 of the 4 remaining QBs left right now. It's a proven fact. You need a full team not just 1 player.

Even if you had that one player but nothing else you end up being like the Colts, first in thier division to worst without Manning.

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't try to find this special QB. I'm just saying it's like hoping to win the lottery when you only play once a year on your wifes birthday. it doesn't happen as much as we think it does.

 

I'd also like to point out that if we RAN the ball and had a bit of ball control and clock control this year we might have won the 2nd Jets game, 2nd Miami game, Giants, New England, and Cincinati games. Of course there's no factual evidence to prove this but thier running games were very good going into the halves of these ges and 2nd half they went pass happy and of course lost the lead or fell off. That's why run the ball and stop the run is so important, you not only kill the clock, you keep the opponent from killing the clock and moving the chains.

 

So, with all this said, I'm done with this argument for the forseable future because no matter what anyone says there's more than one way to win in the NFL and there's no way to win this argument. You have your opinions and I have mine. It's no different than Harbaugh VS Belicheck. I guess well see when this SuperBowl has it's teams and who wins and why. At the end of the day there's 32 teams and 32 HCs in the league and they all have different philosiphies. It's no different than this forum. But to help my point as I take my ball and go home, a few years ago the Patriots were the most high scoring team in the history of the league and were undefeated going into the SuperBowl and a hot Giants defense that wouldn't even be considered to be the best of the last 10 years stopped them cold.

 

Ok, night.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I have been clamoring here for some Linebackers in this draft. Pass rushers and run stuffers.

 

Recently, i've been swayed a little by the posts (Peter King and others) about the New NFL being about "pass and stop the pass."

 

After this weekend, I think we see that Power, Big Man football still can win. Even over powerhouses like Packers and Saints.

 

I was warming to drafting a WR in the first, but now I just want pass rush and more pass rush. After that, some more pass rush, please.

Smash mouth rises again!!! Sick of all these spread "arena leaguers" ruining the game. Noticed the refs where letting a lot of hitting and helmet to helmet go (except for that BS call on Usi to let Green Bay get another scoring chance) and it made the games a lot more fun to watch. Apparently playoff football is following playoff hockey and that is letting the players play and physicality and effort rule the day.

 

Only the Pats left and hopefully the Ravens can take them out and then we can guarantee two physical smash mouth teams in the Bowl. :thumbsup:

[markgbe]

Yes pay attention all you who say "we need a franchise QB first". DEFENSE won this past weekend.

 

That is all.

[jcbillsfan]

The poster and peer king are both right . you have to defend the pass, the best way to do that is to get to the qb. Pass rush is key

[mjt328]

I'm also a believer that defensive teams have an edge in the postseason (for several different reasons).

 

 

But I would hardly call San Francisco's win a great defensive effort.

 

They allowed 32 points to their opponent, despite getting FIVE TURNOVERS.

[Bruce]

I am not one who is in favor of this "pass happy" league.

 

I think that while it insures instant gratification in the least interested of fans, in the long-term it threatens to make football extremely one dimensional.

 

Taking away the running game and the strategy of play-calling for nothing but passing to me is boring.

 

Sure, the league might be able to point to increased attendance and higher scoring, but I never really understood the need for higher scoring. The Buffalo News ran an article about making the NHL more interesting by trying to increase scoring. I don't know about you guys, but 8-7 and 6-5 hockey games are best reserved for the All-Star games, not the regular season or playoffs. If you really want to make hockey higher scoring, then just get rid of the goalie. Basketball on ice would satisfy these goons that just want scoring.

 

Similarly, if the NFL wants a pass focused league, then it should just buy a bunch of arenas and make it indoor....oh, wait...we already have Arena League Football.

 

I know that this has been a systemic move; as college and even high school teams are moving to be exclusively pass-oriented attacks.

 

I don't think that increased scoring means increased revenue. I mean, why bother fielding defensive players then if it is not just for show?

 

Defense, smash-mouth running and special teams have all been parts of the game. I understand the desire to help with player safety, but I think that they new kickoff rule has hurt the Bills more than any other team. Just like the elimination of the wedge rule hurt our return game, I don't see how eliminating kickoff returns are saving anyone's head. Why stop with the kickoff return game? Aren't punt returns just as dangerous?

 

In fact, why even tackle? The players could get a boo-boo.

 

Let's just see touchdowns and big passes and forget the rest.

 

I can't stand this move by most leagues. IMO, if you have a game/ sport that has integrity, and is exciting solely on its merits, then you should never need to adjust things to sway favor one way or the other.

 

Leave hockey alone. Leave football alone. No, I don't want a return (necessarily) of the clutch-and-grab, 2-1, and 1-0 style games made popular my the New Jersey Devils of the 90s. Likewise, I don't think 9-6 field goal contests of, say, Cleveland vs. Cincinatti would be very exciting.

 

But there is value in integrity. There is money in strategy.

 

I hope that the NFL, NHL, etc don't get too caught up in scoring at all costs.

 

Because ultimately, to me atleast, that would seem like too expensive a cost to me to keep watching.

[Juror#8]

I have been clamoring here for some Linebackers in this draft. Pass rushers and run stuffers.

 

Recently, i've been swayed a little by the posts (Peter King and others) about the New NFL being about "pass and stop the pass."

 

After this weekend, I think we see that Power, Big Man football still can win. Even over powerhouses like Packers and Saints.

 

I was warming to drafting a WR in the first, but now I just want pass rush and more pass rush. After that, some more pass rush, please.

 

5 of 6 teams who surrendered loads of passing yards made the playoffs.

 

The record for most passing yards given up in a single season was the 1995 Atlanta Falcons - 4,751 yards passing (http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/12722/the-worst-pass-defense-in-nfl-history).

 

Two teams nearly matched or exceeded that record this year:

 

2011-2012 Green Bay Packers (15-1) - 4796

2011-2012 New England Patriots (13-3) - 4704

 

Both teans were 32 and 31 (respectively) in total defense (total yards per game).

 

Both teams made the playoffs. Both teams made it to week two of the playoffs. The Patriots are going to play in the conference championship.

 

The Giants gave up 4082 yards passing. That was good for bottom 5 in the league. They have the 6th worst defense overall. They're playing in the conference championship.

 

If we're going to correlate having a strong rush presence with getting to the qb, putting him on his back, and significantly lessening pass yardage, than shouldn't the inverse be true - that being that teams with tons of pass yardage surrendered, indeed amongst the worst in the NFL EVER, have LITTLE TO NO pass rush?

 

While the defensive numbers seem to be nebulous at best, and certainly don't support what you're trying to convey, the offensive output seems to be more dispositive.

 

3 out of 4 teams still playing are in the top half of the league with respect to offensive output. 2 out of 4 are top ten (Patriots and Giants).

 

Saints, Patriots, Packers, Giants are/were in the top 8 with the first three being 1,2,3 (respectively).

 

So yea, you're substantially over-estimating the impact of defense (especially with respect to pass yardage surrendered) and behind with respect to what will be successful in today's NFL. You can continue living in 1990-2000. Buddy nix can too if he wants to continue this cycle of mediocrity.

 

If we draft Upshaw with the 10th pick of the draft it would be pathetic and a waste of a pick. The NFL has moved in a decidedly offensive direction. The numbers seem to substantiate it.

[Wooderson]

Not that this has anything to do with this thread but....Joe Flacco blows. Multiple times he would get 4-5 seconds in the pocket and still get sacked. Maybe his receivers weren't getting open, but get rid of the damn ball somehow. On that note, Lee Evans catch was awesome.

 

I also dont know what to think of this Yates kid. He makes some awesome, veteran throws and then the next play throws into triple coverage off his back foot. I guess that's why he's a rook.

[NewEra]

1326718799[/url]' post='2364392']

Yes pay attention all you who say "we need a franchise QB first". DEFENSE won this past weekend.

 

That is all.

 

Ok. We don't need a franchise qb. We need a dominant defense. No. We need a franchise qb and a defense that doesn't suck and can pressure the qb. It doesn't matter what we get "first". When you have a chance to acquire a potential franchise qb, take the chance. You don't have a chance every year. If you don't like the options at qb, take the bpa. That's what most people are saying.

 

1326724226[/url]' post='2364440']

5 of 6 teams who surrendered loads of passing yards made the playoffs.

 

The record for most passing yards given up in a single season was the 1995 Atlanta Falcons - 4,751 yards passing (http://espn.go.com/b...-in-nfl-history).

 

Two teams nearly matched or exceeded that record this year:

 

2011-2012 Green Bay Packers (15-1) - 4796

2011-2012 New England Patriots (13-3) - 4704

 

Both teans were 32 and 31 (respectively) in total defense (total yards per game).

 

Both teams made the playoffs. Both teams made it to week two of the playoffs. The Patriots are going to play in the conference championship.

 

The Giants gave up 4082 yards passing. That was good for bottom 5 in the league. They have the 6th worst defense overall. They're playing in the conference championship.

 

If we're going to correlate having a strong rush presence with getting to the qb, putting him on his back, and significantly lessening pass yardage, than shouldn't the inverse be true - that being that teams with tons of pass yardage surrendered, indeed amongst the worst in the NFL EVER, have LITTLE TO NO pass rush?

 

While the defensive numbers seem to be nebulous at best, and certainly don't support what you're trying to convey, the offensive output seems to be more dispositive.

 

3 out of 4 teams still playing are in the top half of the league with respect to offensive output. 2 out of 4 are top ten (Patriots and Giants).

 

Saints, Patriots, Packers, Giants are/were in the top 8 with the first three being 1,2,3 (respectively).

 

So yea, you're substantially over-estimating the impact of defense (especially with respect to pass yardage surrendered) and behind with respect to what will be successful in today's NFL. You can continue living in 1990-2000. Buddy nix can too if he wants to continue this cycle of mediocrity.

 

If we draft Upshaw with the 10th pick of the draft it would be pathetic and a waste of a pick. The NFL has moved in a decidedly offensive direction. The numbers seem to substantiate it.

 

Couldn't have said it better, minus the part about upshaw. He's not my first choice, but I don't think he would be a wasted pick by any means.

[Lurker]

pathetic and a waste of a pick

Bupkis. This team has enough holes at enough positions that any quality player deserving of the 10th pick would be an upgrade of significant proportions.

 

The Bills' problem has been picking guys that are difference makers. A top-flight LB is a needed addition as much as a WR, DE, OT, CB, TE, DT, OG, SS, QB...

 

I also dont know what to think of this Yates kid. He makes some awesome, veteran throws and then the next play throws into triple coverage off his back foot. I guess that's why he's a rook.

For a guy with seven games under his belt, I was impressed with his play. With some good coaching, he looks like he could be an effective player.

[missthe kgun]

Balance, you need balance. BUT... the winners in all four games this weekend averaged 34.5 points. So offense sill matters because you can't win anymore with a super defense, as I am sure we'll see this coming week when the Pats offense outshines the Ravens defense.

 

I think for the Bills, the do need pass rush immediately because any move toward the playoffs is going to require improvement on defense, as well as offense.

The Niners had a pick 6, and 3 more turnovers to put their offenses in a good position to score.

 

Same with Bmore, and the giants, so in the long run, it was the defense that led the way!!!

 

Go Bills!!!

[hondo in seattle]

Balance, you need balance. BUT... the winners in all four games this weekend averaged 34.5 points. So offense sill matters because you can't win anymore with a super defense, as I am sure we'll see this coming week when the Pats offense outshines the Ravens defense.

 

I think for the Bills, the do need pass rush immediately because any move toward the playoffs is going to require improvement on defense, as well as offense.

 

Of course you still need Defense. How do you beat a team scoring 34.5 points per game? With a defense that slows them down!

 

Every game is really three games:

 

Our Offense versus your Defense

Our Defense versus your Offense

Our ST versus you ST.

 

If you want to win the game, you want to win all three battles. Or at least two of three. So Defense is just as important as before. It will always be important because it's 1/3 of the final result.

[Dragonborn10]

Ranking defenses by yards is also useless. How many times were the Patriots in the lead in the fourth quarter and didn't care about giving up yards? There should be a composite ranking that highlights turnovers, red zone defense, 3rd down stops, and finally yards. If they can do it for a QB ranking they can do it for defenses as well.

[mrags]

The Niners had a pick 6, and 3 more turnovers to put their offenses in a good position to score.

 

Same with Bmore, and the giants, so in the long run, it was the defense that led the way!!!

 

Go Bills!!!

+1

exactly what I was trying to say in my long post also.

[PDaDdy]

I have been clamoring here for some Linebackers in this draft. Pass rushers and run stuffers.

 

Recently, i've been swayed a little by the posts (Peter King and others) about the New NFL being about "pass and stop the pass."

 

After this weekend, I think we see that Power, Big Man football still can win. Even over powerhouses like Packers and Saints.

 

I was warming to drafting a WR in the first, but now I just want pass rush and more pass rush. After that, some more pass rush, please.

 

Funny how all of these people that have bought into the "it's passing league" trend. It is more pass heavy than it has been because of rule changes. Defenses will catch up to be sure. The NFL being a passing league doesn't mean the only way you can win is with an elite soon to be hall of famer at QB. You still need to run the ball and you sure as HELL still need to play defense.

 

Funny how the 2 best QBs in the league are already out of the playoffs and the teams with better defenses won If Brady goes down next weekend I wonder what people will say then? Maybe something along the lines of "defense wins championships"? ...lol

Edited January 16, 2012 by PDaDdy

[ko12010]

I feel like it's the same in the NHL and the NBA to some extent. They want more exciting regular season games so they make the defending rules more strict but then swallow the whistles during the playoffs. Pretty frustrating trying to build a team when that happens but that encourages building a balanced team.

 

I'll always remember the high flying Colts teams that were mugged out of the playoffs by New England and someone else in consecutive years and the NFL finally realized how much the refs stopped calling PI and Illegal Contact in the playoffs.

 

Still have to build for balance. That's why San Fran and New York Giants look really good right now. Allows regular season AND post season success.

 

As all Sabres fans know, it's dumb to create an awesomely skilled team that can fly around the ice for 82 games and then get mugged out of the playoffs bc nothing is called.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Rush the passer that is the modern NFL defense. Stop the run while rushing the passer. We need at least two pass rushers in FA or from the draft to add to the front seven...

 

 

How is this new. Does anyone remember Bruce Smith and what he did to get in the hall of fame? There are many different ways to win in football. Dominant pash rush is one.

[flmike]

Ranking defenses by yards is also useless. How many times were the Patriots in the lead in the fourth quarter and didn't care about giving up yards? There should be a composite ranking that highlights turnovers, red zone defense, 3rd down stops, and finally yards. If they can do it for a QB ranking they can do it for defenses as well.

 

Well, there is. It's called the opposition's final score.

[Alphadawg7]

I have been clamoring here for some Linebackers in this draft. Pass rushers and run stuffers.

 

Recently, i've been swayed a little by the posts (Peter King and others) about the New NFL being about "pass and stop the pass."

 

After this weekend, I think we see that Power, Big Man football still can win. Even over powerhouses like Packers and Saints.

 

I was warming to drafting a WR in the first, but now I just want pass rush and more pass rush. After that, some more pass rush, please.

 

If you want to use a small sample size of one weekends game and ignore the trend of the last decade, then go ahead. But if you noticed the Pats dont have a D and are ripping through the playoffs...so, again, you can pick and choose what you want but It still doesnt change that this is a passing league now. Doesnt mean you cant win with a dominant defense still, but do you even realize how MANY players we are away from a defense like the Ravens and 49ers?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Yes pay attention all you who say "we need a franchise QB first". DEFENSE won this past weekend.

 

That is all.

Still need a franchise QB in this league and we need defense.

[TheFunPolice]

Eli Manning gets no credit?

 

Someone explain to me how he is NOT an elite top 5-6 QB in this league.

[CosmicBills]

Eli Manning gets no credit?

 

Someone explain to me how he is NOT an elite top 5-6 QB in this league.

Anyone who thinks Eli isn't an elite QB doesn't understand the game or doesn't watch him play. Look at his track record. He won the super bowl MVP by besting Brady during the greatest season a QB has ever had (Brady that is), now he comes out and beats Rodgers on the road after he had maybe the second best season a QB has had.

 

Eli is crazy clutch AND a top 5 QB in the game today.

[Pneumonic]

I see two teams with elite passing QB's still in the playoffs and two teams with elite defenses still in the playoffs. Not sure much of a conclusion can be drawn from this either way.

[CosmicBills]

I see two teams with elite passing QB's still in the playoffs and two teams with elite defenses still in the playoffs. Not sure much of a conclusion can be drawn from this either way.

Only one of the remaining QBs left was NOT a first round draft pick. Two of them were #1 overall. The only one who wasn't taken with a team's first pick is a first ballot hall of famer and possibly the best QB ever to play the game.

[Just in Atlanta]

Not that this has anything to do with this thread but....Joe Flacco blows. Multiple times he would get 4-5 seconds in the pocket and still get sacked. Maybe his receivers weren't getting open, but get rid of the damn ball somehow. On that note, Lee Evans catch was awesome.

 

I also dont know what to think of this Yates kid. He makes some awesome, veteran throws and then the next play throws into triple coverage off his back foot. I guess that's why he's a rook.

Don't really have an opinion on Flacco, but Yates--he looks like a great QB who plays well beyond his years. Dude's played only eight games. I think most fans will forgive the throws into triple coverage off his back foot. As for Evans, the guy is the ultimate phantom. Draws double coverage where ever he runs, gets like one catch a game, and everyone clamors for him. Not saying we should've traded him, but so far that 4th rounder is looking sweet.