Accused death row inmate Troy Davis is denied clemency

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

Parole board denies clemency for Troy Davis

 

Larry Cox, executive director of Amnesty International AIUSA (AIUSA), said it was "unconscionable" that the board denied Davis relief. "Allowing a man to be sent to death under an enormous cloud of doubt about his guilt is an outrageous affront to justice," he said.

 

William S. Sessions, former Director of the FBI said:

 

What quickly will become apparent is that serious questions about Davis’ guilt, highlighted by witness recantations, allegations of police coercion and a lack of relevant physical evidence, continue to plague his conviction. Last summer, an extraordinary hearing ordered by the U.S. Supreme Court to answer these questions instead left us with more doubt.

 

Despite the fact that 7 of the 9 eyewitnesses have recanted or significantly changed their testimony, in some cases stating publicly that the police coerced them into identifying Troy Davis as the killer, and no physical or DNA evidence linking him to the killing, Georgia's State Board of Pardons and Paroles has denied clemency. Davis is scheduled to be executed tomorrow.

[BB27]

"The justices (Supreme Court) transferred the case to a U.S. District Court in Georgia for a hearing and determination of his claims that new witnesses will clearly establish his innocence. A year later, the judge, William Moore, rejected Davis' claims of innocence."

 

From the article I read. Guess the judge felt he was guilty. He did it, and now the time has come to pay the piper.

[KD in CA]

Amnesty International found the decision "unconscionable"? There's a shock.

 

Maybe if they didn't try the same routine with every guilty subhuman on death row their words might have more credibility.

 

 

 

 

 

p.s. wouldn't a more accurate thread title be "Convicted death row inmate......"??

Edited September 20, 2011 by KD in CT

[Cugalabanza]

I don’t know the details of the case, but when you have 7 of 9 eyewitnesses recanting and so many people “including former President Jimmy Carter, Pope Benedict XVI, former FBI Director William Sessions, former Georgia Supreme Court Chief Justice Norman Fletcher and Larry Thompson, the former deputy U.S. attorney general” calling for a stay, I think it makes the state of Georgia look pretty backwards.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

Amnesty International found the decision "unconscionable"? There's a shock.

 

Maybe if they didn't try the same routine with every guilty subhuman on death row their words might have more credibility.

 

 

 

 

 

p.s. wouldn't a more accurate thread title be "Convicted death row inmate......"??

ya, I get your Boy Who Cried Wolf metaphor and its justified I guess. Too bad this time it looks like he didn't do it.

 

how about Perhaps wrongly convicted

[KD in CA]

ya, I get your Boy Who Cried Wolf metaphor and its justified I guess. Too bad this time it looks like he didn't do it.

 

how about Perhaps wrongly convicted

 

How do you arrive at that conclusion? Because Jimmy Carter and the Pope don't like the death penalty? Because after having a camera stuck in their face for the hundredth time, a couple jurors caved to the pressure 20 years later (as if they can remember important case details now anyway)? I'll give the anti-DP crowd credit for being creative in their tactics (OMG, no DNA evidence!!! Never mind that bullets don't generally carry the shooter's DNA), but that doesn't mean I'm willing to ignore a conviction and subsequent appellate confirmations.

 

I mean, there isn't any question that the guy was there, right? It's just that after he's convicted suddenly they claim one of the other dudes was the trigger man??

[Ramius]

How do you arrive at that conclusion? Because Jimmy Carter and the Pope don't like the death penalty? Because after having a camera stuck in their face for the hundredth time, a couple jurors caved to the pressure 20 years later (as if they can remember important case details now anyway)? I'll give the anti-DP crowd credit for being creative in their tactics (OMG, no DNA evidence!!! Never mind that bullets don't generally carry the shooter's DNA), but that doesn't mean I'm willing to ignore a conviction and subsequent appellate confirmations.

 

I mean, there isn't any question that the guy was there, right? It's just that after he's convicted suddenly they claim one of the other dudes was the trigger man??

 

Shows like CSI have turned jurors into even bigger idiots than they already were, especially in regards to DNA evidence.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

How do you arrive at that conclusion? Because Jimmy Carter and the Pope don't like the death penalty? Because after having a camera stuck in their face for the hundredth time, a couple jurors caved to the pressure 20 years later (as if they can remember important case details now anyway)? I'll give the anti-DP crowd credit for being creative in their tactics (OMG, no DNA evidence!!! Never mind that bullets don't generally carry the shooter's DNA), but that doesn't mean I'm willing to ignore a conviction and subsequent appellate confirmations.

 

I mean, there isn't any question that the guy was there, right? It's just that after he's convicted suddenly they claim one of the other dudes was the trigger man??

Because of people like Bob Barr. He's a former federal prosecutor and congressman from GA, who has publicly stated his support for the DP, and one of the original authors of the Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996, which he claims was misinterpreted by the lower courts who refused to hear Davis' petition for a writ of habeas corpus. Nor has the court heard witnesses whose testimonies have changed, only their written affidavits.

 

and it's not "no DNA", it's No Physical Evidence, zero, zip.

[DaveinElma]

Theyll probably let this guy walk free and give him millions of dollars. Meanwhile a cop killer gets only 3 years.

 

http://www.abc26.com/news/local/wgno-sucker-punch-cop-killer-pleads-guilty-20110920,0,2077625.story

[Phlegm Alley]

Shows like CSI have turned jurors America into even bigger idiots than they already were, especially in regards to DNA evidence.

 

Fixed

[Booster4324]

Theyll probably let this guy walk free and give him millions of dollars. Meanwhile a cop killer gets only 3 years.

 

http://www.abc26.com/news/local/wgno-sucker-punch-cop-killer-pleads-guilty-20110920,0,2077625.story

 

In a case like this (Troy Davis), most of us know how you feel Dave. The evidence matters little as far as you are concerned.

 

Edit - Oh and he is dead now. So that should make some happy.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Booster4324

[Wacka]

7 out of 9 is bulls***t! The prosecution put 34 witnesses on the stand and out of the seven, several were friends of the shooter. One said he didn't see Davis shoot anybody and he was 5 feet away. The SCOTUS voted 9-0 to refuse his appeal. GOOD, he's room temp now.

[BB27]

Stick a fork in him, cause he's done now.....

[Taro T]

I don’t know the details of the case, but when you have 7 of 9 eyewitnesses recanting and so many people “including former President Jimmy Carter, Pope Benedict XVI, former FBI Director William Sessions, former Georgia Supreme Court Chief Justice Norman Fletcher and Larry Thompson, the former deputy U.S. attorney general” calling for a stay, I think it makes the state of Georgia look pretty backwards.

Without 'know(ing) the details of the case' the only item on that list that 'makes the state of Georgia look pretty backwards' is that former President Jimmy Carter was former Georgia Governor Jimmy Carter prior to becoming former President Jimmy Carter.

[HopsGuy]

While I find her to be a self-serving bomb-thrower, Ann Coulter outlined some of the specifics about this.

[Albany,n.y.]

While I find her to be a self-serving bomb-thrower, Ann Coulter outlined some of the specifics about this.

Here's a ridiculous quote from Ann Coulter:

Fifty-nine percent of Americans now believe that an innocent man has been executed in the last five years. There is more credible evidence that space aliens have walked among us than that an innocent person has been executed in this country in the past 60 years, much less the past five years.

Considering the number of people who have had convictions overturned by DNA evidence as the science has improved, only a complete crackpot would think that no innocent people have been executed in the past 60 years.

[HopsGuy]

Here's a ridiculous quote from Ann Coulter:

Fifty-nine percent of Americans now believe that an innocent man has been executed in the last five years. There is more credible evidence that space aliens have walked among us than that an innocent person has been executed in this country in the past 60 years, much less the past five years.

Considering the number of people who have had convictions overturned by DNA evidence as the science has improved, only a complete crackpot would think that no innocent people have been executed in the past 60 years.

 

She probably limited it to 5 years because Cameron Todd Willingham was executed in 2004.

[Cugalabanza]

While I find her to be a self-serving bomb-thrower, Ann Coulter outlined some of the specifics about this.

Thanks for posting this. I’m not a fan of Ann Coulter’s politics, but it’s nice to get this point of view, which includes actual info from the case and from the various appeals. Even though she can't keep her own agendas out of it, she does add some relevant details to the discussion. I have to agree that the mainstream articles I’ve seen about this have been woefully short on facts and long on axe-grinding.

 

I don’t personally support the death penalty, but that’s not really the immediate issue. It’s whether the guy is innocent or guilty of murder. It’s good to see some intelligent discussion of that issue, which was sorely missing in the other articles.

[Magox]

Appears to me that they should of held off on the Execution and reviewed it further.

[RkFast]

Well, thats what people hate Coulter. She throws the red meat out there, but she does her research, too.

[apuszczalowski]

Appears to me that they should of held off on the Execution and reviewed it further.

how much longer, another 20 years?

 

Every single time that they reviewed it and it was appealed, the courts ruled in favour of keeping him on death row. They held off the execution for about 4 hours last night (which they did not have to do) to allow the Supreme court review it and everyone came back with the same decision, to continue the execution.

 

The only people that believed he should not be executed were himself and his lawyers (not surprising) and the general public who probably haven't seen half of the facts or evidence in the case but ging off of what little is released

[dib]

He had 20 some odd years to prove his innocence.

[NoSaint]

Appears to me that they should of held off on the Execution and reviewed it further.

 

What would you be looking for at this point? Not trying to be snarky but it's been reviewed a ton of times. Is there something you think is lacking and needing further checks still? Why? Curious to get more of the other side here.

[LeviF]

I'd at least be interested in seeing the documents from the original trial, if possible. I've been trying for a while now to find them, but can't seem to locate them.

[ieatcrayonz]

 

Despite the fact that 7 of the 9 eyewitnesses have recanted or significantly changed their testimony, in some cases stating publicly that the police coerced them into identifying Troy Davis as the killer, and no physical or DNA evidence linking him to the killing, Georgia's State Board of Pardons and Paroles has denied clemency. Davis is scheduled to be executed tomorrow.

 

 

Awesome post blaming cops for the whole thing. Maybe the original cop didn't try hard enough to dodge the bullet.

Edited September 22, 2011 by ieatcrayonz

[LeviF]

The SCOTUS voted 9-0 to refuse his appeal.

This really is only because the SCOTUS will not overturn the fact-finding of a lower court (such as the US District Court that the 2010 evidentiary hearing took place in), only the conclusions based on the fact-finding. A judge found that only one of the recantations was meaningful, and the SCOTUS is not going to change that part of a ruling.

 

Edit: here's the link that I pulled that last sentence from.

 

https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/judge-rejects-troy-davis-598327.html

 

Of the seven witnesses Davis' legal team say recanted their trial testimony, "only one is a meaningful, credible recantation." The value of this recantation -- given by a jailhouse snitch who testified Davis told him he killed MacPhail -- is diminished because it was already clear the witness testified falsely at trial, the judge said.

Edited September 22, 2011 by LeviF91

[bladiebla]

Well Ann Coulter is not adding any fact either...

 

From wiki (with sources) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Davis_case:

 

"As he left with his friend Darrell Collins, the occupants of a passing car yelled obscenities at them. A bullet was fired into the car and ^[13] Michael Cooper, a passenger in the other car, was shot in the face, allegedly by Davis.^[14] Davis and Collins continued on, and later met Sylvester "Redd" Coles, who was arguing with a homeless man, Larry Young, over a beer near a Burger King restaurant in the nearby Yamacraw neighborhood.^[13][15]. Off-duty policeman Mark MacPhail was working as a security guard there and was shot when he attempted to intervene in the pistol whipping of Mr. Young.^[16]"

"Davis and Collins continued on, and later met Sylvester "Redd" Coles, who was arguing with a homeless man, Larry Young, over a beer near a Burger King restaurant in the nearby Yamacraw neighborhood"

"In a hearing in November 1990, the judge barred forensic evidence from the shorts that had been retrieved during the police search of the Davis home."

 

"On cross-examination, Coles admitted that he also had a .38 pistol, but stated that he had given it to another man earlier that night."

 

"There were numerous witnesses that we knew should have been interviewed, but lacked the resources to do so"

 

". In a final address to the jury, Davis pleaded, "Spare my life. Just give me a second chance. That's all I ask." He told jurors he was convicted for "offenses I didn't commit." "

 

"In December 2001, Davis filed a habeas corpus petition in the United States District Court.^[50] From 1996 onwards, seven of the nine prosecution witnesses changed all or part of their trial testimony.^[52][53] Dorothy Ferrell, for example, stated in a 2000 affidavit that she felt under pressure from police to identify Davis as the shooter because she was on parole for a shoplifting conviction.^[53] In a 2002 affidavit, Darrell Collins wrote that the police had scared him into falsely testifying by threatening to charge him as an accessory to the crime, and alleged that he had not seen Davis do anything to Young.^[54] Antoine Williams, Larry Young and Monty Holmes also stated in affidavits that their earlier testimony implicating Davis had been coerced by strong-arm police tactics.^[32] In addition, three witnesses signed affidavits stating that Redd Coles had confessed to the murder to them"

 

"On September 26, 2006, the court affirmed the denial of federal habeas corpus relief, and determined that Davis had not made "a substantive claim of actual innocence"^[50] or shown that his trial was constitutionally unfair; the circuit court found that neither prosecutors nor defense counsel had acted improperly or incompetently at trial."

 

"Members of the legal community have criticized the restricting effect of the 1996 Act on the ability of wrongfully convicted persons to prove their innocence"

 

"In his final words, Davis maintained his innocence."

 

From Amnesty International http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/cases/usa-troy-davis:

 

"The case against him consisted entirely of witness testimony which contained inconsistencies even at the time of the trial. Since then, all but two of the state's non-police witnesses from the trial have recanted or contradicted their testimony.

 

Many of these witnesses have stated in sworn affidavits that they were pressured or coerced by police into testifying or signing statements against Troy Davis.

 

One of the two witnesses who has not recanted his testimony is Sylvester "Red" Coles — the principle alternative suspect, according to the defense, against whom there is new evidence implicating him as the gunman. Nine individuals have signed affidavits implicating Sylvester Coles."

 

All legal documents: http://www.troyanthonydavis.org/

 

My take:

 

Davis wasnt your ideal son-in-law, he was involved with drugs dealing. Either Collins or Davis shot at Cooper after the party, covering this up is what got Davis killed. The only physical evidence that is available in this case are the shell casings; where the shells on the first crime scene were recovered a week after the shooting, after the police had allready processed the scene and recovered none. Sylvester Coles was the one who reported Davis to the police as being the shooter. Coles was found in possession of a .38 which wasnt processed. The shell at the first scene could have easily been planted by Coles after reporting Davis to the police. Seems far fetched maybe, but you have to remember that Coles actually was the one going to the police

 

There is strong supporting evidence that Davis was indeed innoncent of murdering MacPhail and Coles being the real murderer. Solve the first shooting and the truth isnt far off, maybe Davis covered for Collins; shooting from a car would drop the shell inside the car with the two shootings being unrelated. Did Davis deserve to go to prison, sure did, did he commit the second shooting and consequent murder? I dont know, doesnt fit his profile that's for sure, but people do get astray. IMHO they should have granted an indefinite stay on the execution whilst they would have reinvestigated the first shooting and subsequent burgerking murder.

 

 

[erynthered]

Alec Baldwin goes nuts on twitter about this.

 

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/09/22/alec-baldwin-goes-nuts-twitter-after-davis-execution-attacks-cheney-r

[Sig1Hunter]

Well Ann Coulter is not adding any fact either...

 

From wiki (with sources) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Davis_case:

 

"As he left with his friend Darrell Collins, the occupants of a passing car yelled obscenities at them. A bullet was fired into the car and ^[13] Michael Cooper, a passenger in the other car, was shot in the face, allegedly by Davis.^[14] Davis and Collins continued on, and later met Sylvester "Redd" Coles, who was arguing with a homeless man, Larry Young, over a beer near a Burger King restaurant in the nearby Yamacraw neighborhood.^[13][15]. Off-duty policeman Mark MacPhail was working as a security guard there and was shot when he attempted to intervene in the pistol whipping of Mr. Young.^[16]"

"Davis and Collins continued on, and later met Sylvester "Redd" Coles, who was arguing with a homeless man, Larry Young, over a beer near a Burger King restaurant in the nearby Yamacraw neighborhood"

"In a hearing in November 1990, the judge barred forensic evidence from the shorts that had been retrieved during the police search of the Davis home."

 

"On cross-examination, Coles admitted that he also had a .38 pistol, but stated that he had given it to another man earlier that night."

 

"There were numerous witnesses that we knew should have been interviewed, but lacked the resources to do so"

 

". In a final address to the jury, Davis pleaded, "Spare my life. Just give me a second chance. That's all I ask." He told jurors he was convicted for "offenses I didn't commit." "

 

"In December 2001, Davis filed a habeas corpus petition in the United States District Court.^[50] From 1996 onwards, seven of the nine prosecution witnesses changed all or part of their trial testimony.^[52][53] Dorothy Ferrell, for example, stated in a 2000 affidavit that she felt under pressure from police to identify Davis as the shooter because she was on parole for a shoplifting conviction.^[53] In a 2002 affidavit, Darrell Collins wrote that the police had scared him into falsely testifying by threatening to charge him as an accessory to the crime, and alleged that he had not seen Davis do anything to Young.^[54] Antoine Williams, Larry Young and Monty Holmes also stated in affidavits that their earlier testimony implicating Davis had been coerced by strong-arm police tactics.^[32] In addition, three witnesses signed affidavits stating that Redd Coles had confessed to the murder to them"

 

"On September 26, 2006, the court affirmed the denial of federal habeas corpus relief, and determined that Davis had not made "a substantive claim of actual innocence"^[50] or shown that his trial was constitutionally unfair; the circuit court found that neither prosecutors nor defense counsel had acted improperly or incompetently at trial."

 

"Members of the legal community have criticized the restricting effect of the 1996 Act on the ability of wrongfully convicted persons to prove their innocence"

 

"In his final words, Davis maintained his innocence."

 

From Amnesty International http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/cases/usa-troy-davis:

 

"The case against him consisted entirely of witness testimony which contained inconsistencies even at the time of the trial. Since then, all but two of the state's non-police witnesses from the trial have recanted or contradicted their testimony.

 

Many of these witnesses have stated in sworn affidavits that they were pressured or coerced by police into testifying or signing statements against Troy Davis.

 

One of the two witnesses who has not recanted his testimony is Sylvester "Red" Coles — the principle alternative suspect, according to the defense, against whom there is new evidence implicating him as the gunman. Nine individuals have signed affidavits implicating Sylvester Coles."

 

All legal documents: http://www.troyanthonydavis.org/

 

My take:

 

Davis wasnt your ideal son-in-law, he was involved with drugs dealing. Either Collins or Davis shot at Cooper after the party, covering this up is what got Davis killed. The only physical evidence that is available in this case are the shell casings; where the shells on the first crime scene were recovered a week after the shooting, after the police had allready processed the scene and recovered none. Sylvester Coles was the one who reported Davis to the police as being the shooter. Coles was found in possession of a .38 which wasnt processed. The shell at the first scene could have easily been planted by Coles after reporting Davis to the police. Seems far fetched maybe, but you have to remember that Coles actually was the one going to the police

 

There is strong supporting evidence that Davis was indeed innoncent of murdering MacPhail and Coles being the real murderer. Solve the first shooting and the truth isnt far off, maybe Davis covered for Collins; shooting from a car would drop the shell inside the car with the two shootings being unrelated. Did Davis deserve to go to prison, sure did, did he commit the second shooting and consequent murder? I dont know, doesnt fit his profile that's for sure, but people do get astray. IMHO they should have granted an indefinite stay on the execution whilst they would have reinvestigated the first shooting and subsequent burgerking murder.

 

One could argue that saying Coulter's opinion piece did not provide facts, whilst linking wikipedia is quite curious. Anyway, I bolded a statement that you quoted and wonder why you included it? When I first read your post, the context indicated to me that this evidence that was excluded was some type of evidence that might help Davis. But, upon actually going through the links themselves and reading what was actually said, it was evidence that the prosecution wanted to get in but was excluded because a judge ruled the police obtained it improperly.

 

"In a hearing in November 1990, the judge barred forensic evidence from the shorts that had been retrieved during the police search of the Davis home. The judge ruled that Davis's mother did "not freely and voluntarily grant the police the right to search her home".[21] She had testified that police officers had threatened to break down her door unless she let them into her home. The Georgia Supreme Court upheld the exclusion of the evidence in May 1991, saying that the police should have obtained a search warrant.[25]" <---- from your same Wiki link.

[BB27]

Just read this in an article, for all those who say how innocent he was.... Link

 

"He has had ample time to prove his innocence," said MacPhail's widow, Joan MacPhail-Harris. "And he is not innocent."

 

The U.S. Supreme Court gave him an unusual opportunity to prove his innocence last year, but his attorneys failed to convince a judge he didn't do it. State and federal courts have repeatedly upheld his conviction.

 

It was first time the Supreme Court had given such an opportunity for a death row inmate in at least 50 years. At that June 2010 hearing, two witnesses testified that they falsely incriminated Davis at his trial when they said Davis confessed to the killing. Two others told the judge the man with Davis that night later said he shot MacPhail.

 

Prosecutors, though, argued that Davis' lawyers were simply rehashing old testimony that had already been rejected by a jury. And they said no trial court could ever consider the hearsay from the other witnesses who blamed the other man for the crime.

 

U.S. District Judge William T. Moore Jr. sided with them. He said the evidence presented at the hearing wasn't nearly enough to prove Davis is innocent and validate his request for a new trial. He said while Davis' "new evidence casts some additional, minimal doubt on his conviction, it is largely smoke and mirrors."

 

State and federal courts have repeatedly upheld his conviction.

 

 

[Magox]

how much longer, another 20 years?

 

Every single time that they reviewed it and it was appealed, the courts ruled in favour of keeping him on death row. They held off the execution for about 4 hours last night (which they did not have to do) to allow the Supreme court review it and everyone came back with the same decision, to continue the execution.

 

The only people that believed he should not be executed were himself and his lawyers (not surprising) and the general public who probably haven't seen half of the facts or evidence in the case but ging off of what little is released

From what I've read, there appears to have been enough evidence that would of been stricken from court to have changed jurors opinions. As a matter of fact, a few of the jurors stated that if those people who were "witnesses" hadn't testified who later changed their story, that they wouldn't have found him guilty. This is a human life we are talking about here, I don't see the problem with reviewing it further, other than possibly killing an innocent person.

[Mike in Syracuse]

How is it possible to be a Christian, be pro life and pro death penalty all at the same time?

 

I don't know much about this guy or the case but I do know that there's weren't any special exceptions to the "Thou shall not kill" commandment.

 

I also know for a FACT that history has shown for almost 400 years that the death penalty does absolutely nothing to deter crime. Sure, it gets rid of the perpetrator but if I remember Sunday school correctly I'm pretty sure I was told not to judge others.

 

 

If we're going to continue executing people I would hope that there would be capital punishment for all those involved in executing someone who is later proven to be innocent. After all, capital punishment is the ultimate form of pre-meditated murder. That included cops, prosecutors and jurors along with whoever pulls the switch or injects the drug.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Mike in Syracuse

[birdog1960]

How is it possible to be a Christian, be pro life and pro death penalty all at the same time?

 

I don't know much about this guy or the case but I do know that there's weren't any special exceptions to the "Thou shall not kill" commandment.

 

I also know for a FACT that history has shown for almost 400 years that the death penalty does absolutely nothing to deter crime. Sure, it gets rid of the perpetrator but if I remember Sunday school correctly I'm pretty sure I was told not to judge others.

well said

[Chef Jim]

How is it possible to be a Christian, be pro life and pro death penalty all at the same time?

 

 

The "child" is innocent the convicted murder is not. It's really pretty simple

[KD in CA]

I also know for a FACT that history has shown for almost 400 years that the death penalty does absolutely nothing to deter crime.

 

The only fact is that argument is a steaming pile of crap. Since 1967 there have been 1200 executions for over 800,000 murders in the US. Of course it's not going to be a deterant if its only applied 0.15% of the time. How about executing 80% of all murderers for a few years and then figuring out if it's a deterrant?

 

If you want to argue cost or morality or whatever, that's fine, but the 'deterant' argument is b.s.

 

 

 

 

The "child" is innocent the convicted murder is not. It's really pretty simple

It amazes me how many people think that is a brilliant, logic-crushing arguement.

 

(And no, I'm not against abortion).

 

 

.

Edited September 22, 2011 by KD in CT

[Chef Jim]

It amazes me how many people think that is a brilliant, logic-crushing arguement.

 

(And no, I'm not against abortion).

 

I am against abortion and for the death penalty and no I'm not a Christian. Far from it.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Chef Jim

[birdog1960]

The "child" is innocent the convicted murder is not. It's really pretty simple

the principle that makes it contradictory to believe both simultaneously is the sanctity of all life. that is the religious basis that i believe syracuse was referring to. no one thinks it's genius. rather, it's obvious.

[UConn James]

How is it possible to be a Christian, be pro life and pro death penalty all at the same time?

 

I don't know much about this guy or the case but I do know that there's weren't any special exceptions to the "Thou shall not kill" commandment.

 

I also know for a FACT that history has shown for almost 400 years that the death penalty does absolutely nothing to deter crime. Sure, it gets rid of the perpetrator but if I remember Sunday school correctly I'm pretty sure I was told not to judge others.

 

 

If we're going to continue executing people I would hope that there would be capital punishment for all those involved in executing someone who is later proven to be innocent. After all, capital punishment is the ultimate form of pre-meditated murder. That included cops, prosecutors and jurors along with whoever pulls the switch or injects the drug.

 

1) What does this line of argument have to do with anything? The United States is not a Christian / New Testament theocracy.

 

2) Actually, there were several exceptions to the "Thou Shalt Not Kill" commandment. The Lex Talionis. War / National conflict. Self-defense.

 

3) Do you really want to get into that argument? They are people each doing their part in a long chain of upholding a system of laws. If you don't like the laws, then try to change the laws through the proper channels. How in the world could you condone killing people for their discrete parts in a capital case? You would hope for that? What is wrong with you?

[janicks]

How is it possible to be a Christian, be pro life and pro death penalty all at the same time?

 

Somebody once told me that Christians believe that life begins at conception and ends at birth. I always thought that was a great line.

[KD in CA]

I am against abortion and for the death penalty and no I'm not a Christian. Far from it.

You know I was referring to his argument about the supposed contraction between being anti-abortion and pro-DP, right?

 

 

 

the principle that makes it contradictory to believe both simultaneously is the sanctity of all life. that is the religious basis that i believe syracuse was referring to. no one thinks it's genius. rather, it's obvious.

Who says anti-abortion folks necessarily consider ALL life to be sacred? Isn't it possible to believe the life of an innocent child is sacred and the life of a murdering thug to be worthless?