cage Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article319796.ece WOW, that just hit home... does that bother anyone??? Someone help me feel better about this... Edited January 22, 2011 by cage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article319796.ece WOW, that just hit home... does that bother anyone??? Someone help me feel better about this... Their worst record between 2000-2003 was 9-7, which of course is our best in the last 12 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) If you throw out 2004 (which you should since it was mostly a product of Ricky Williams retiring and David Boston getting suspended for the year and nothing the coaching staff necessarily did), from 2000-2003 the Dols went 41-23 (.640) and made the playoffs 2 of those 4 seasons. IOW, they averaged a 10-6 record. And during the 2 seasons Gailey and Wannstedt worked together (2000 and 2001), they went 11-5 each season, making the playoffs both seasons. Does that make you feel better? Edited January 22, 2011 by Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsObserver Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 If you throw out 2004 (which you should since it was mostly a product of Ricky Williams retiring and David Boston getting suspended for the year and nothing the coaching staff necessarily did), from 2000-2003 the Dols went 41-23 (.640) and made the playoffs 2 of those 4 seasons. IOW, they averaged a 10-6 record. And during the 2 seasons Gailey and Wannstedt worked together (2000 and 2001), they went 11-5 each season, making the playoffs both seasons. Does that make you feel better? haha I LOVE the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FistingBot Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Someone please explain to me why I'm more optimistic about the Bills than I've been in about the last decade or so... this is a team I normally think can do no right... but I find myself applauding move after move lately... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cage Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) If you throw out 2004 (which you should since it was mostly a product of Ricky Williams retiring and David Boston getting suspended for the year and nothing the coaching staff necessarily did), from 2000-2003 the Dols went 41-23 (.640) and made the playoffs 2 of those 4 seasons. IOW, they averaged a 10-6 record. And during the 2 seasons Gailey and Wannstedt worked together (2000 and 2001), they went 11-5 each season, making the playoffs both seasons. Does that make you feel better? Thank you... Thank you!! That helped. I've had a cold sweat since I read that article. Edited January 22, 2011 by cage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glory Bound Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Someone please explain to me why I'm more optimistic about the Bills than I've been in about the last decade or so... this is a team I normally think can do no right... but I find myself applauding move after move lately... Tell me, which one of these moves are you applauding the most? The decision to use our #1 pick on a luxury pick ... a right reserved for playoff teams. Or maybe you loved wasting two months (counting OTA's & training camp) on Trent Edwards, while almost everyone on this board knew he wasn't a "gamer". Personally, I am applauding (cough cough) this awkward Wanny thing...our new defensive cooridinator that really isn't one...but maybe he is. Why didn't they just fire Edwards & bring on Wanny as DC? sheesh. I don't mean to pee in your Wheaties, but I am not applauding yet. I'll applaud when these decisions turn into victories, & quite frankly I am having some doubts that they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cage Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 Tell me, which one of these moves are you applauding the most? The decision to use our #1 pick on a luxury pick ... a right reserved for playoff teams. Or maybe you loved wasting two months (counting OTA's & training camp) on Trent Edwards, while almost everyone on this board knew he wasn't a "gamer". Personally, I am applauding (cough cough) this awkward Wanny thing...our new defensive cooridinator that really isn't one...but maybe he is. Why didn't they just fire Edwards & bring on Wanny as DC? sheesh. I don't mean to pee in your Wheaties, but I am not applauding yet. I'll applaud when these decisions turn into victories, & quite frankly I am having some doubts that they will. Classic!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billshank Redemption Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 idk about you guys but I actually am optimistic about where this team is going. So does this mean we are officially moving back to the 4-3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I don't mean to pee in your Wheaties, Says the man with his pants down standing on the breakfast table, tweezer in hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Says the man with his pants down standing on the breakfast table, tweezer in hand... :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glory Bound Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Says the man with his pants down standing on the breakfast table, tweezer in hand... HAHAHAHAHAHA Gut laughing here RJ...Good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 HAHAHAHAHAHA Gut laughing here RJ...Good one! Thanks my Bills Brother, couldn't resist. It's all in good fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 haha I LOVE the facts. Almost as much as cherry picking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Almost as much as cherry picking. Pot, meet kettle. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glory Bound Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Thanks my Bills Brother, couldn't resist. It's all in good fun. I know...sometimes I think that we all can get a little too serious about our team at times. After all, it's only a game. Interjecting a bit of humor into these threads periodically is important. If there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that the past decade has been frustrating. If we don't laugh, we'll cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey98277 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Tell me, which one of these moves are you applauding the most? The decision to use our #1 pick on a luxury pick ... a right reserved for playoff teams. Or maybe you loved wasting two months (counting OTA's & training camp) on Trent Edwards, while almost everyone on this board knew he wasn't a "gamer". Personally, I am applauding (cough cough) this awkward Wanny thing...our new defensive cooridinator that really isn't one...but maybe he is. Why didn't they just fire Edwards & bring on Wanny as DC? sheesh. I don't mean to pee in your Wheaties, but I am not applauding yet. I'll applaud when these decisions turn into victories, & quite frankly I am having some doubts that they will. While I dont disagree with everything you said, the one thing I thing that I think you are way off on is that he let himself see if TE was a good QB or not, he wanted to see for himself, he made it through OTA's cuz he was a good practice QB, once he seen him in 2 games and seen what he was like when the lights came on he cut him loose. So cuz he wants to make his own decisions based on his coaching abilities, that is a problem for you, it should be a problem for you if he just listened to other people and not his own coaching abilities and decisions. By the way Bush was a luxuary pick for the Saints a while back, now he is a very important part of what they do, when he was out the were not the same team. Not sure if he will be that good but I do agree in that I will wait to make my judgement after it is wins or losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Pot, meet kettle. Whatever, Robo-head. As to Doc's point that 2004 had nothing to do with coaching, he should've researched beyond Wikipedia. Norv Turner left after the 2003 season, which resulted in a reorganization of Wannstedt's offensive staff. Joel Collier was promoted to OC, demoted, and Chris Foerster promoted to OC. You also had some degree of chaos in the front office with Dan Marino coming in, deciding it was too much like work, and leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JStranger76 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Stock this team up with better players and nobody's gonna care who is on the coaching staff. It will also be fun to be a Bills fan again, which will be great for everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 It's a good staff, but I say the defensive people are in the wrong roles. Should be Wannstache as DC, Sanders as DL coach, Edwards as LB coach, with the Bills playing a 4-3. But they're all in there so if they keep their egos in check, hopefully they can come together to create something good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 We need some enthususiam whether false or not this off season in the hope that next year will be a confirmation for us fans. The proof is in the pudding (whatever the heck that means) but wins will show us if we have righted the ship...finally. Regardless i am looking forward to every adjustment we make till next years playoffs!playoffs? Playoffs. even if i do not understand all of them. I, at this point have faith in Chan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 We need some enthususiam whether false or not this off season in the hope that next year will be a confirmation for us fans. The proof is in the pudding (whatever the heck that means) but wins will show us if we have righted the ship...finally. Regardless i am looking forward to every adjustment we make till next years playoffs!playoffs? Playoffs. even if i do not understand all of them. I, at this point have faith in Chan. BTW, as I have said before, Wannstedt is an upgrade (certainly over DeMontie Cross and over George Edwards as well). That doesn't mean everyone has to subscribe to the mularkey that it took some sort of cosmic genius to figure that the defensive side needed some fixing and must improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Yes, you are correct. of course but the fact that we did this pickup of DW with such a splash is mighty surpising. He did not come cheap as his title suggests, and most of the recent media announcements have said he will be utilized strongly on defense (his strength i think ). It just seems out of character for good ole Ralphie boy and that we actually focused on the most glaring issue right away. Be interesting if they continue this during FA and draft. Or will they pick the best player at the #3. Which might be that cornerback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 BTW, as I have said before, Wannstedt is an upgrade (certainly over DeMontie Cross and over George Edwards as well). That doesn't mean everyone has to subscribe to the mularkey that it took some sort of cosmic genius to figure that the defensive side needed some fixing and must improve. Perhaps not. But, it is a little refreshing to see that Nix and Gailey didn't just stay the course and not make any changes to the defensive staff. And, you know, in the past, that's exactly what this franchise would have done. They would have fed us some bull that it's not all bad and we have to give it time. In the end, this FO and Chan haven't made all the right decisions - some have been downright incredulous (extending Kelsay). But, it's a positive sign that they're able to see at least some of this team's problems and then that they're willing to try and fix them. Will hiring DW help the defense next year? We'll see. But, it's really hard to see how this isn't an upgrade for our team. I guess we could argue that there was a better defensive guy to bring in; but I'm not sure there was. Not because DW is so damn great, but just that potentially better coaches were either hired or just may not have wanted to come here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) Cage, there's probably nothing anyone can do to make you feel better about Wannstache - some people are just destined to feel bad about everything! OMG...the Bills did something...it must be bad...they are incompetent... vs. OMG...the Bills did nothing...they are incompetent (and Ralph is cheap). Just typical TSW nonsense...myself, I prefer to ' think positive ' ... 19 and 0 baby!!! GO BILLSSS!!!! Fear the 'stache!!!!! Edited January 22, 2011 by The Senator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Perhaps not. But, it is a little refreshing to see that Nix and Gailey didn't just stay the course and not make any changes to the defensive staff. And, you know, in the past, that's exactly what this franchise would have done. They would have fed us some bull that it's not all bad and we have to give it time. In the end, this FO and Chan haven't made all the right decisions - some have been downright incredulous (extending Kelsay). But, it's a positive sign that they're able to see at least some of this team's problems and then that they're willing to try and fix them. Will hiring DW help the defense next year? We'll see. But, it's really hard to see how this isn't an upgrade for our team. I guess we could argue that there was a better defensive guy to bring in; but I'm not sure there was. Not because DW is so damn great, but just that potentially better coaches were either hired or just may not have wanted to come here. I'm repeating myself, but bringing in someone with some experience is not a bad thing. We'll have to see how it turns out, but for those that count the chicks before the hens even start roosting, "SUPER BOWL!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 This adds years of experience to our coaching staff and 100% more mustache! Both of which our team has lacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 super bowl baby! see i got it right this time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article319796.ece WOW, that just hit home... does that bother anyone??? Someone help me feel better about this... Why must people look for reasons to complain? We currently have a very lousy defense. We just added an excellent football coach that specializes in defense. The guy respects and likes our current HC and wants to work with him to take on the challenge. He wants to come to Buffalo. This is a huge step forward. You have permission to feel good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Yes, you are correct. of course but the fact that we did this pickup of DW with such a splash is mighty surpising. He did not come cheap as his title suggests, and most of the recent media announcements have said he will be utilized strongly on defense (his strength i think ). It just seems out of character for good ole Ralphie boy and that we actually focused on the most glaring issue right away. Be interesting if they continue this during FA and draft. Or will they pick the best player at the #3. Which might be that cornerback I love what some people refer to as a splash. It was a common sense move for a guy that is genuine quality. Between Stache and Edwards, we will have the coaching in place to run multiple defensive fronts based on who our personnel is at the time. The real question year after year seems to always be the same though, where the hell are the playmakers we need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sllib olaffub Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 It's been a long standing belief of mine that the best teams emphasize teaching/coaching above anything else, and second they create "team" teams, players doing their job/roles, as opposed to trying to buy the Super Bowl every year by signing big name F.A.'s - like New England, of course, but also like Green Bay, San Diego, Pittsburgh, Indy - all teams that don't generally sign the big name F.A.'s, who draft good, develope their own, and coach them up - not to mention, they stick with their system, because it works. Well, I believe we might have the biggest coaching staff in the NFL - and that is a direct reflection of Nix/Gailey understanding that success comes from having the players understand their job, and having that team mentality. I trust Nix in drafting. I trust Gailey in coaching an offense - in fact, I think he is capable of developing one of the better offenses in the NFL - I mean, we almost beat the Steelers, Ravens, etc. without having very recognizable talent on offense... I like what he has shown he's capable of, and I like that he uses the talent he has, rather than trying to misfit players into inappropriate systems. And now, we have a Defensive staff to match the offenses in experience, and in proven talent. To make it better still, all these coaches know each other, are friends. And, better still, I get the feeling that Wilson is giving the keys to the kingdom over to Buddy - I think Wilson wants to do whatever is within reason to win before he is gone. And, Nix is at an age where, as I've said before, this team is going to be his legacy. Gailey - well, if he finds success here, it, too, can redeem his career and if he is successful here, then all of a sudden the work he did in Dallas becomes better, too. Wannstedt - they all share this in common - now is their time. For this group of men, the circumstances couldn't be much better. They have the control, and if Wilson gives them the money for the F.A.'s, then they have everything they could ask for. I think they are going to build this team the right way - and I'm excited about the next few years... it's a good time to be a Bills Fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Most excellent post, sllib olaffub !!!! Brings tears of joy to my eyes knowing that others share my optismism... 19 and 0 baby!!! GO BILLSSS!!!! Fear the 'stache!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article319796.ece WOW, that just hit home... does that bother anyone??? Someone help me feel better about this... What is there to make you feel better about ??? Sure the guy beat our Bills in the 93 Superbowl but that ancient history !! The guy is a SUPERBOWL WINNING D COORDINATOR !! we need better coaches that have been there done that i don't see your point ??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article319796.ece WOW, that just hit home... does that bother anyone??? Someone help me feel better about this... I know this much, despite the fact that the Dolphins under Dave W were better than the Bills, I always liked that they had Wannstedt because he clearly is not the kind of HC that will win a championship. The NFL was becoming a more complicated league. Teams like the Patriots and Steelers were outscheming opponents defensively and the Colts had Peyton Manning, a QB who could dissect a defense like no QB who has ever played the game. These teams would DOMINATE the decade. Wannstedt is your basic "give me great talent and I'll give you an outstanding D" defensive coordinator. Basic 4-3, line them up and play DC on par as a coordinator with a guy like Ted Cottrell. Players like him and he's a good motivator....but as far and X's and O's he's never been confused with the masters of the gameplan like BB, LeBeau, Capers, Ryan, Greggo, Mike Nolan, etc.. What he brings here, I'm not sure. I am glad they did something, because George Edwards was outclassed this past season. The Bills did not have great talent, but they could have played MUCH better. I thought Edwards work as a coordinator was AWFUL. Perhaps Wannstedt's biggest contribution might be as a bridge between Gailey and the rest of the team. One of my concerns with Gailey was that he lacked some of the people skills needed to inspire players over the long haul. He's a smart and resourceful coach but at his previous stops the players didn't love playing for him. They also had little reason to respect him because he didn't win much. A good example was his stay in Dallas. People often mention that Jerry Jones says he should have never fired Chan. But more interesting to me is that when he was there, Troy Aikman did not like Chan. But in retrospect, he now realizes that Gailey was doing what he had to do to put Dallas in position to win, something he apparently realized when Chan was replaced by a far inferior coach in Dave Campo and the team bottomed out. I just get the sense the Chan is one of those guys who knows what he's doing, but isn't that great at getting everyone to buy into the plan. This would explain his mixed results at GT too. As a tactician he was clearly the class of the ACC when he was there, but his results were not special. Perhaps Dave W's biggest contribution will be getting the team on board and keeping them there. Edited January 23, 2011 by BADOLBILZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Blizzard Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article319796.ece WOW, that just hit home... does that bother anyone??? Someone help me feel better about this... Don't bother me in the least, unless they secretly intend to lose to the 'fins everytime we play them . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Thank you... Thank you!! That helped. I've had a cold sweat since I read that article. Why? This guy's a great defensive coach and at last check, our D blows. This is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Warner Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I know this much, despite the fact that the Dolphins under Dave W were better than the Bills, I always liked that they had Wannstedt because he clearly is not the kind of HC that will win a championship. The NFL was becoming a more complicated league. Teams like the Patriots and Steelers were outscheming opponents defensively and the Colts had Peyton Manning, a QB who could dissect a defense like no QB who has ever played the game. These teams would DOMINATE the decade. Wannstedt is your basic "give me great talent and I'll give you an outstanding D" defensive coordinator. Basic 4-3, line them up and play DC on par as a coordinator with a guy like Ted Cottrell. Players like him and he's a good motivator....but as far and X's and O's he's never been confused with the masters of the gameplan like BB, LeBeau, Capers, Ryan, Greggo, Mike Nolan, etc.. What he brings here, I'm not sure. I am glad they did something, because George Edwards was outclassed this past season. The Bills did not have great talent, but they could have played MUCH better. I thought Edwards work as a coordinator was AWFUL. Perhaps Wannstedt's biggest contribution might be as a bridge between Gailey and the rest of the team. One of my concerns with Gailey was that he lacked some of the people skills needed to inspire players over the long haul. He's a smart and resourceful coach but at his previous stops the players didn't love playing for him. They also had little reason to respect him because he didn't win much. A good example was his stay in Dallas. People often mention that Jerry Jones says he should have never fired Chan. But more interesting to me is that when he was there, Troy Aikman did not like Chan. But in retrospect, he now realizes that Gailey was doing what he had to do to put Dallas in position to win, something he apparently realized when Chan was replaced by a far inferior coach in Dave Campo and the team bottomed out. I just get the sense the Chan is one of those guys who knows what he's doing, but isn't that great at getting everyone to buy into the plan. This would explain his mixed results at GT too. As a tactician he was clearly the class of the ACC when he was there, but his results were not special. Perhaps Dave W's biggest contribution will be getting the team on board and keeping them there. I just signed in to say this is the best breakdown I've read of the whole scenario. Bringing in Wanny is promising and let's hope he can work with Edwards to actually deliver a well-schemed D with enough good players to win. I trust Gailey with the offense. Hope springs eternal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagon Circler Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 idk about you guys but I actually am optimistic about where this team is going. So does this mean we are officially moving back to the 4-3? Yes but I could see them using the 3-4 on passing downs if Merriman can get sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyDingo Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Their worst record between 2000-2003 was 9-7, which of course is our best in the last 12 years. Nicely done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) I really like this move for number of reasons, and also have a couple questions. 1. The Bills Front Office (Buddy Nix) realized the D was really bad, possibly that G. Edwards was over his head. 2. They made a move rather quickly, for the Bills, prior to Ralph having him annual summit Detroit or wherever, by which time it seems other teams have already made their moves and scooped up available talent. 3. Instead of dumping Edwards and bring in a new D.C. who would have to get his hands around the whole deal, they added a coach who actually HAS experience for the job which he is being hired. I'm rather shocked. Really. 4. I haven't heard much from Ralph and it seems Nix is putting his stamp on this team. 5. Some of the key coaches have now worked together in the past, which should help the D improve quickly. 6. Chan can be expected to devote most of his time to the O, and let D.W. and Edwards handle the D completely. Q: D.W. has experience mostly wit 4-3? So are the Bills still going to run a hybrid or go back to the more conventional 4-3? Edited January 23, 2011 by SoCal-Surf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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