2nd Best Head Coach in Football?

[Gugny]

Seeing as Bill Belicheat should have been suspend from the league for ever for cheating systemically for 7+ years I can't count him as the leagues best coach. But I do think that Sean Payton and Mike Smith both have to get the nod as top coaches in the league.

 

Seriously how good could Belicheat be if he had to cheat for 7 years? His whole career is a scam. Anyway I just think that if you look at the situations both Mike Smith and Sean Peyton inherited from their teams its a much more impressive coaching job thus far then Belicheat.

 

Payton took a Saints team devastated without a home after Katrina and a team that didn't have a lot of talent football wise (3-13 the year he took over) and took them to the NFC title game the next year. Then he had two mediocre seasons but at 7-9 and 8-8 but the Saints were still improved from their pre Katrina state. Then last year 13-3 and a Super Bowl, this year 11-5 and a playoff appearance. A pretty solid record.

 

Mike Smith took over a Falcons team that was 3-13 and coming off of the Mike Vick scandal and the fanbase was divided and the previous coach quit on the team. Smith took a rookie QB to an 11-5 record and a playoff apperance, then took the Falcons to their 1st back to back winning season with a 9-7 record although no playoffs, and this year the Falcons are 13-3 with the number one seed in the NFC, once again not too bad.

I can totally understand you not liking Belichick. But the whole cheating thing is ridiculous. It almost makes me wish that Marv Levy or Wade Phillips would confess to doing the same thing while in Buffalo.

 

Belichick has 4 rings as a head coach. None of them were a result of cheating. All of them were a result of him being a better coach than the guy on the other sideline.

 

Who's to say that Matt Ryan isn't the reason the Falcons are so good? Why is Mike Smith getting all the credit? And he still hasn't won anything yet. I personally believe Mike Smith is a very good coach. But he's nowhere near the coach Belichick is.

 

Nobody is.

 

Belichick is awesome. Brady is awesome. Kraft is awesome. As much as it totally sucks that they're in the AFC East, people should still give credit where it's due.

 

I guess it's lonely on top. Someday, I hope the Bills can find out!

[reddogblitz]

Y'mean, when they didn't make the playoffs?

The Patsies in fact did not make the playoff n 2008. You are correct. But they did go 11-5. I didn't do a historical search or anything, but I'd suspect 19 years out 20, 11-5 gets you in the playoffs. Most years 10-6 gets you in. Almost every year at least one 9-7 (or worse) team gets in.

 

So it wasn't that their performance dropped way off when Brady was hurt. The big blue machine rolled on.

[BuffOrange]

They went 11-5, but the scheduled aligned in such a way that they played both West divisions. Miami certainly wasn't an 11 win team, but they managed to win 11 games.

[billsfan89]

I can totally understand you not liking Belichick. But the whole cheating thing is ridiculous. It almost makes me wish that Marv Levy or Wade Phillips would confess to doing the same thing while in Buffalo.

 

Belichick has 4 rings as a head coach. None of them were a result of cheating. All of them were a result of him being a better coach than the guy on the other sideline.

 

Who's to say that Matt Ryan isn't the reason the Falcons are so good? Why is Mike Smith getting all the credit? And he still hasn't won anything yet. I personally believe Mike Smith is a very good coach. But he's nowhere near the coach Belichick is.

 

Nobody is.

 

Belichick is awesome. Brady is awesome. Kraft is awesome. As much as it totally sucks that they're in the AFC East, people should still give credit where it's due.

 

I guess it's lonely on top. Someday, I hope the Bills can find out!

 

Yeah their Super Bowls were a result of cheating. The NFL destroyed the evidence (The tapes and the notes they had) which tells you it had to have helped them win in a substantial fashion. If it was no big deal why the big cover up? The cheating spanned 7 years which means it had to have helped them why else would they have kept doing it?

 

Don't treat me like a fool I know what the hell happened in New England. They cheated clearly it impacted their performance I can't say a guy is a good coach if he had to cheat.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Yeah, he's a genius. Take Brady away and he's not such a genius anymore.

 

You mean like in 2008?

When Brady was replaced by 7th round draft choice Cassel (number of college starts: 0 number of prior NFL starts: 0), and the Pats* went 11 and 5?

[crazyDingo]

Cheating or non-cheating coaches?

[BADOLBILZ]

Pretty much everyone would agree that Bill Belichick is the best coach in football. But who's #2?

 

Seems like there's a lack of quality HCs and a gulf between Belichick and the rest. But I'd nominate Ravens HC John Harbaugh. He inherited a team with a bad record. Some stars on defense, yes, but virtually no offense. They drafted wisely with Flacco, Ngata and Rice. And made good FA moves like acquiring Boldin. And they can win now with offense too.

 

Mike McCarthy in Green Bay I'd rate 3rd for the job they've done drafting and dealing with key injuries this season.

 

I'd have to give Sean Peyton the nod as #2. Probably Andy Reid third. Harbaugh and McCarthy are up there though. I'm not sold on Mike Smith yet. I'm not convinced he isn't just another Jack Del Rio who just has a Peyton Manning like young QB. We'll see what he does with homefield advantage.

[BuffaloBillsForever]

The hoodie is in a coaching class all of his own. I don't know who I would classify as the the 2nd best head coach but if I really head to choose it would be Sean Payton.

[truth on hold]

I'd have to give Sean Peyton the nod as #2. Probably Andy Reid third. Harbaugh and McCarthy are up there though. I'm not sold on Mike Smith yet. I'm not convinced he isn't just another Jack Del Rio who just has a Peyton Manning like young QB. We'll see what he does with homefield advantage.

Problem I have w/ Reid is it seems his teams will always be good, but never good enough to win the big one.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack

[Clippers of Nfl]

I can totally understand you not liking Belichick. But the whole cheating thing is ridiculous. It almost makes me wish that Marv Levy or Wade Phillips would confess to doing the same thing while in Buffalo.

 

Belichick has 4 rings as a head coach. None of them were a result of cheating. All of them were a result of him being a better coach than the guy on the other sideline.

 

Who's to say that Matt Ryan isn't the reason the Falcons are so good? Why is Mike Smith getting all the credit? And he still hasn't won anything yet. I personally believe Mike Smith is a very good coach. But he's nowhere near the coach Belichick is.

 

Nobody is.

 

Belichick is awesome. Brady is awesome. Kraft is awesome. As much as it totally sucks that they're in the AFC East, people should still give credit where it's due.

 

I guess it's lonely on top. Someday, I hope the Bills can find out!

only if i was being tortured could i pronounce this crap!

 

right now the best coach in football is chan galey

the number 2 is marv levy

 

lets start at number 3

coach number 32 is belloncheat. if you get CAUGHT cheating, you're a dik and should be suspended for like 5 years.

 

what's up with this brady love? all you brady lovers please join a pats forum.

 

ps. nothing wrong with accepting a players' talent, but wth?? brady is awesome. he's the best player ever. this is too much man crush.

[Tcali]

He is a football genius, and taking Brady away would hardly slow him down. I think in decades to come, he'll end up being regarded as possibly the best coach the game has ever seen. I'm only one person, but I think he's already the best ever.

Lombardi,Belichek,Walsh--in no particular order.

[peteski]

Jeff Fischer.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

guess we could debate this all day.....my Top 5:

 

#1- Belichick

#2- Reid

#3- Tomlin

#4- Peyton

#5t- Fisher

#5t- Smith

Before I read this topic, I went over all the NFL Head Coaches in my mind and I have to say Andy Reid. Almost all of our posters tried to articulate why they chose the coach they did as the second best coach in the NFL. I used the criteria used in previous posts.

 

Longevity? Only Jeff Fisher has been at his job longer. In 12 seasons, Reid has a 128-82-1 record including playoffs (10-9) for a .607 winning percentage.

 

Fisher's record in 17 seasons is 147-126 (.538 winning percentage).

 

Reid's has a higher winning percentage than Bill Walsh, Bill Parcells, Tom Landry, Mike Holmgren, Mike Shanahan, and a bunch of other coaches who have been fortunate enough to have won Super Bowls.

 

Has Reid had the advantage of working for a good organization in which other head coaches have enjoyed success? No.

 

Reid has presided over an organization that has known mostly futility before he arrived: 391-468-26 (.455 winning percentage). In 78 seasons, the Eagles won just 3 NFL Championships.

 

In Reid's 12 seasons, he has won 6 NFC East titles, playing in arguably the most consistently excellent division in football. Six divisional titles in 12 seasons playing against the Giants, Cowboys, and Redskins. Wow.

 

Tom Modrak, Harry Gamble, Tom Heckert, and Howie Roseman have all held the title of General Manager in Reid's time in Philly. In that time Reid has grown his influence as his GMs have become less and less relevant.

Joe Banner has been President of the Eagles throughout Reid's time in Philly because of Banner's friendship with Eagles Owner Jeffrey Lurie. Banner was friends with Lurie before he purchased the Eagles in 1994. Banner does not have a football background. Banner was a sports producer for an AM radio station before starting a chain of retail clothing outlets.

Andy Reid has virtually built the Eagles football organization himself. Only Bill Belichick still enjoys the executive authority that Andy Reid wields in Philly. The Head Coach as Chief Executive is a model that has fallen into disfavor in the NFL. Andy Reid is the Philadelphia Eagles. He coaches the team, makes the trades, controls the drafts, and targets free agents. He is the chief executive of football.

Reid has not had the advantage of working for a solid organization which provides its coaches with a foundation for success.

Coaches like Bill Cowher, Mike Tomlin, Tony Dungy, Brian Billick, George Seifert, Barry Switzer, and Tom Coughlin, have all won Super Bowl Championships as Head Coaches. But all of these men did so while working for top notch, rock-solid organizations who had won previous Super Bowls with other coaches. Again, Reid never had this benefit.

Some organizations are so competent and have such great organizational expertise that they greatly enhance the chance of success for the coaches that they hire. That was not the case in Philadelphia. The success of the Eagles organization is built upon the bedrock of Andy Reid.

Has Reid benefitted from having a great quarterback to guide his team? I don't think so.

Reid has certainly had some good talent to work with in Philly. Donovan McNabb is arguably a great quarterback and Michael Vick has shown glimpses that he can be…if he can sustain the level of success he first enjoyed this year under Andy Reid. In my opinion, McNabb and Vick have been successful because of Reid's coaching and his prowess as an offensive mastermind. Contrast McNabb's and Vick's performances as Eagles with their performances for their other teams.

 

While McNabb/Vick are excellent QBs, no one will argue that they are as good as Elway (Shanahan), Manning (Dungy), Aikman (Johnson and Switzer) or any number of QBs whose greatness contributed to the reputations of their head coaches.

 

Coaching Tree. Impressive? Yes.

• Brad Childress (2006–2010)
• John Harbaugh (2008–present)
• Steve Spagnuolo (2009–present)
• Leslie Frazier (2010–present)
• Ron Rivera (2011–present)
• Pat Shurmur (2011–present)

The top three men on this list have won more than their share of football games. While Childress eventually flamed out, Spagnuolo is just starting out and looks to be doing a very good job so far. Frazier, Rivera, and Shurmur have all within the last month been hired as NFL head coaches.

 

How many head coaches have ever had 6 former assistants become NFL head coaches? That number is even more impressive when you consider that Reid has only been a head coach himself for 12 years.

 

Conclusion:

 

The only thing eluding Andy Reid is a Super Bowl Championship. Does that mean that Reid's not as good a coach as the 14 Head Coaches who have only won one Super Bowl? Is winning one Super Bowl really meaningful when evaluating the greatness of a coach? Are we saying that Don McCafferty, Mike Ditka, Barry Switzer, and Brian Billick (among others) are better coaches than Andy Reid?

In my book, Andy Reid is the second best coach in the NFL. If I had an NFL team and could hire any coach except for Bill Belichick, I would hire Andy Reid.

Edited January 15, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan

[Simon]

Just wanted to say this is a great thread.

[Chilly]

I think that when you look at head coaches, you're looking for a few different things:

 

- Teams that always seem to have a strategic advantage against their opponent.

- Teams that can take advantage of the other teams weaknesses on both offense and defense.

- Teams that consistently play above their perceived talent level.

- Teams that handle distractions well.

 

Given that above, the 5 coaches that meet that criteria the best are:

 

1.) Bill Belichick

2.) Andy Reid

3.) Mike McCarthy

4.) Mike Smith

5.) Mike Tomlin

 

I think Belichick and Reid are by far and away the best coaches, with McCarthy a distant 3rd. Then there's a couple of 2nd tier guys in Mike Smith and Mike Tomlin, who fit the criteria, but not nearly as good as the top 3.

 

From there, I think you have some honorable mentions: Sean Payton, Tom Coughlin. I think both Payton and Coughlin can perform at that level, but don't do it very consistently. Jeff Fisher also could be an honorable mention, but in my mind he's pretty far from Payton and Coughlin.

 

Next, is the up-and-comers who have the same consistency problem but haven't proved it as much as the last two: John Harbaugh and Rex Ryan.

 

Up next, a potentially decent coach without a body of work: Todd Haley.

 

After that, I think you have Jim Schwartz. I love what I see from this guy, and I think he could be an amazing NFL head coach if he had a better team. Still, he's getting the Lions going in the right direction, but he's punished for not winning more.

 

You've got a whole bunch of coaches lumped together after that. Some pretty good coaches who have been up and down (Lovie Smith, John Fox, Ken Wisenhunt), and some "who the hell knows" coaches like Raheem Morris and Jack Del Rio. Those guys seem like good coaches once in a while, but suck the rest of the time.

 

Finally, you get down to the 2010 retard division:

 

In second place, finishing with the silver medal in coaching retardation, the great Mike Singletary! This guy completely botched the QB situation over the past couple of years, and in one of his first games as head coach, dropped trou. His teams have had talent, and he floundered it. Seriously dude?!

 

In first place, finishing with the gold medal in retardation, Jim Caldwell! Okay, while he might not be as bad as some coaches, that team practically runs itself (thanks to Tom Moore, Peyton Manning, and Tony Dungy). Also, he managed to lose not just one, but TWO games by calling foolish timeouts, one to lose in overtime. I've got the feeling he doesn't totally get the NFL rules.

 

To be fair, I really shouldn't have put Jim Caldwell as the Gold Retard. If I could have used coaches who were fired, I probably would have put Josh McDaniels there, for coming in and singlehandedly destroying a franchise in two years.

[truth on hold]

After seeing the games today, changed my pick. McCarthy is 2nd best.

[Chilly]

And I want to bump down Mike Smith. Atlanta was completely and utterly unprepared today on both sides of the ball.

[BuffaloBillsForever]

Here we go with the typical TSW myopic coaching picks now...

Edited January 16, 2011 by BuffaloBillsForever

[BillsfaninFl]

I can't think about a #2 HC, because It is so painful reading this lovefest for Belicheat. The pain increases when I have to admit he is #1. Is Lombardi still coaching?

[Lockport Bills]

Chan Gailey!

[machinegun12]

I second this nomination. The Falcons are the best team that no one ever talks about.

Well, people are talking about them now. Not very positively, though.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Looks like Rexy now.

[papazoid]

guess we could debate this all day.....my Top 5:

 

#1- Belichick

#2- Reid

#3- Tomlin

#4- Peyton

#5t- Fisher

#5t- Smith

 

UPDATED POWER RANKINGS NFL HEAD COACHES (APR 5th):

 

1. Bill Belichick, New England Patriots

2. Mike Tomlin, Pittsburgh Steelers

3. Andy Reid, Philadelphia Eagles

4. Mike McCarthy, Green Bay Packers

5. Sean Payton, New Orleans Saints

 

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/27641/power-rankings-top-10-nfl-head-coaches

[T master]

Andy Reid would have to be in the conversation the guy has them winning every year & that's not a fluke . Plus he's not afraid to make the tough decision when it needs to be made (Donavon Mcnabb).

[Mr. WEO]

Reid can't be in the top 3. Too many big game losses, gotta point to the coach.

 

McCarthy has to be #2 given all the injuries he dealt with.

[Captain Hindsight]

Mike Smith...

Actually I hate to say this, and don't like the guy, but Rex Ryan has done a nice job with the jets.

Pete Carrol has had a very good first year.

John Harbaugh is looking good

Sean Payton is pretty darn good

 

There seems to be a logjam after Bill Belichik.

A bad division makes 7-9 look real nice huh?

 

I gotta say Mike Mcarthy is the 2nd best coach. The amount of injuries they had last year, dealing with Brett Favre and deveolping Rodgers hes done a great job IMO

 

Honorable mention to Mike Smith in Hotlanta and Ken Wisnehunt in Arizona. That team is damn good if they just had anything close to a QB last year

[peteski]

Mike Mularkey. He fed his team hamburgers the day before a game and they won. You can't beat coaching like that.

[AReed Deep For 7]

I like Tom Coughlin as a top 5 guy. I'd give Tomlin the #2 nod. The Big Ben controversy/suspension; injuries, etc. He kept the team winning.

Coughlin????? Wow, didnt think Id see this. Dont his players usually hate him? Not that he isnt a good coach, its probably because he's a harda$$, but I dont want my guys to HATE the coach. Cowher was pretty strict but I doubt many players ever would say they didnt like him.

[bobobonators]

#1- Belichick

#2- Reid

#3- Tomlin

#4- Peyton

#5- Coughlin

 

Reid can't be in the top 3. Too many big game losses, gotta point to the coach.

 

McCarthy has to be #2 given all the injuries he dealt with.

 

Even if he doesn't win a SB, Reid will have HOF worthy numbers as a head coach when it's all said and done. McCarthy won the super bowl this past year, but I wouldn't just go ahead and put him ahead of Reid. IMHO.

[NoSaint]

#1- Belichick

#2- Reid

#3- Tomlin

#4- Peyton

#5- Coughlin

 

 

 

Even if he doesn't win a SB, Reid will have HOF worthy numbers as a head coach when it's all said and done. McCarthy won the super bowl this past year, but I wouldn't just go ahead and put him ahead of Reid. IMHO.

 

I dunno about coughlin but roughly...

 

McCarthy has a chance to be on that cusp.

 

Dont like mike smith - pull the Clements fumble and the Hartley missed chip shot and the falcons were only a wild card team. Doesn't have the track record to ignore this.

 

Rex needs more time- can his loudmouth strategy actually work long-term?

 

1- belichek, easy

2- tomlin - anyone argue?

3- Payton... SB win, built a team from scratch, distractions galore in the city- 2 NFC championship games in a couple years. Needs to do better with balanced consistent game plans.

4-Reid - can't win the big game? We only know this cause he coaches his teams into the big games EVERY year. He does something right.

5- I could see coughlin. He's had a couple down years but several good years. Of the Rex/smith/McCarthy.... Which will keep winning, which will trail off... I'm not sure but TC is probably right in the middle of that group.

 

Well, people are talking about them now. Not very positively, though.

 

Never won a playoff game, and VERY lucky this year... Above average but not elite.

 

The Hartley 29 yard miss?

The Clements pickoff and fumble?

The no call on that PI to win the ravens game?

 

Still good but... Not among the best.

[bobobonators]

I dunno about coughlin but roughly...

 

McCarthy has a chance to be on that cusp.

 

Dont like mike smith - pull the Clements fumble and the Hartley missed chip shot and the falcons were only a wild card team. Doesn't have the track record to ignore this.

 

Rex needs more time- can his loudmouth strategy actually work long-term?

 

1- belichek, easy

2- tomlin - anyone argue?

3- Payton... SB win, built a team from scratch, distractions galore in the city- 2 NFC championship games in a couple years. Needs to do better with balanced consistent game plans.

4-Reid - can't win the big game? We only know this cause he coaches his teams into the big games EVERY year. He does something right.

5- I could see coughlin. He's had a couple down years but several good years. Of the Rex/smith/McCarthy.... Which will keep winning, which will trail off... I'm not sure but TC is probably right in the middle of that group.

 

 

 

Never won a playoff game, and VERY lucky this year... Above average but not elite.

 

The Hartley 29 yard miss?

The Clements pickoff and fumble?

The no call on that PI to win the ravens game?

 

Still good but... Not among the best.

 

Good post. I think right now you'd have to put coughlin ahead of rex/smith/mccarthy..of course, 10 yrs from now, who knows. Coughlin took the expansion Jaguars to the AFC championship game twice i think, and won the SB w/the Giants and has over 130 wins...imo, he's definitely within top 5 currently

Edited April 6, 2011 by bobobonators

[NoSaint]

Good post. I think right now you'd have to put coughlin ahead of rex/smith/mccarthy..of course, 10 yrs from now, who knows. Coughlin took the expansion Jaguars to the AFC championship game twice i think, and won the SB w/the Giants and has over 130 wins...imo, he's definitely within top 5 currently

I think a lot of people see a couple down years and forgot all the really good years that earned him the chance to weather the storms. Just cause some of the young guns haven't had their trouble yet, doesn't mean they won't. I'll guess one of them will be better than coughlin in the long run but who knows right now.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Pretty much everyone would agree that Bill Belichick is the best coach in football. But who's #2?

 

Seems like there's a lack of quality HCs and a gulf between Belichick and the rest. But I'd nominate Ravens HC John Harbaugh. He inherited a team with a bad record. Some stars on defense, yes, but virtually no offense. They drafted wisely with Flacco, Ngata and Rice. And made good FA moves like acquiring Boldin. And they can win now with offense too.

 

Mike McCarthy in Green Bay I'd rate 3rd for the job they've done drafting and dealing with key injuries this season.

Rexy is doing a great job motivating that injured crew, if kept the we hate the world rhetoric against Pittsburg they would have gone to the superbowl. Next year he learn from this and make it to the big show.