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This 'anonymous source' makes a good point

nodnarb

By nodnarb
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nodnarb

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"(Bills head coach) Chan Gailey is a very good offensive coordinator. If you remember, he was moving the ball with Tyler Thigpen in Kansas City. They were scoring 28-plus points per game. The guy knows how to move the ball. And to his credit, he has been doing it (in Buffalo) without a tight end. He's a great schemer. The part I don't understand is why they decided to switch their "40" front (on defense). Whoever made that decision made a bad call. They did not have the personnel to make the move."

 

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/11/14/insider-bills-gailey-knows-offense

 

Did a TE catch a single ball Sunday? Was Nelson active? Stupar? One stud TE to go along with our 3 serviceable TEs would go a long way in both the run and pass game.

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b stein 22 RFA

b stein 22

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"(Bills head coach) Chan Gailey is a very good offensive coordinator. If you remember, he was moving the ball with Tyler Thigpen in Kansas City. They were scoring 28-plus points per game. The guy knows how to move the ball. And to his credit, he has been doing it (in Buffalo) without a tight end. He's a great schemer. The part I don't understand is why they decided to switch their "40" front (on defense). Whoever made that decision made a bad call. They did not have the personnel to make the move."

 

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/11/14/insider-bills-gailey-knows-offense

 

Did a TE catch a single ball Sunday? Was Nelson active? Stupar? One stud TE to go along with our 3 serviceable TEs would go a long way in both the run and pass game.

They moved to a 3-4 to please the fans. Russ Brandon is a marketing genius.

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Heitz All Pro

Heitz

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They moved to a 3-4 to please the fans. Russ Brandon is a marketing genius.

Or because the last time we ran a 3 - 4 we were top 3 in the league on D for several years. Or because you're far more likely reason - Russ Brandon is a marketing genius.

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ndirish1978 All Pro

ndirish1978

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Or because the last time we ran a 3 - 4 we were top 3 in the league on D for several years. Or because you're far more likely reason - Russ Brandon is a marketing genius.

 

I can see that, but the conversion could have been handled better. Rather than scrap the 4=3 and taking what decent players we had on D and playing them out of position for most of the game, we could have simply installed more 3=4 packages and lessened the effect we have been seeing from people playing positions unfamiliar to them. If we had the LBs to switch to a 3=4, I would understand the overnight switch, but not with the personnel we have. It seems like the only person who theoretically would benefit from the switch is Maybin and he can't even play himself onto the active roster. I know schemes are generally an abrupt switch because a new coordinator comes in and wants to install their system, but in this case it may have been better to make the transition a 2 year process. Though that's just my opinion and I could be making little football sense for all I know.

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BuffaloWest Rookie

BuffaloWest

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I saw that, and it's a good point. Btw the Bills drafted Carrington, who doesn't dress (and may no longer even fit what they're now trying to do on defense), one round before the Pats nabbed Hernandez.

9 games into the 2010 season, Nix first draft has been a bust.

Could it change-Sure, but right now, it looks bad. Spiller was not a good pick for a team with that many needs.

The national pundits were right about Spiller being a bad pick at 9 for Buffalo.

If the guy was that "electrifying" and "special" wouldnt he have shown a little something by now?

He will become good, but we should have grabbed a linebacker...

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Omar Little RFA

Omar Little

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Or because the last time we ran a 3 - 4 we were top 3 in the league on D for several years. Or because you're far more likely reason - Russ Brandon is a marketing genius.

 

Your reason is pretty invalid, too, considering none of the players from the previous 3-4 are even on the Bills anymore.

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b stein 22 RFA

b stein 22

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Russ Brandon? I didn't realize he hired George Edwards. Wow, you learn something new on this site everyday.

What if Russ Brandon forced Chan to get a coach that uses the 3-4. So they can fool the fan base and get them to buy more season tickets.

Edited by b stein 22
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b stein 22 RFA

b stein 22

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I'm pretty sure season ticket sales declined significantly from 2009 to 2010.

I know that, but they wanted to fool the fans to think that they are actually trying to win. Fans wanted the 3-4 because the defense sucked. The bills organization knew that they did not have the personnel to run the 3-4 and they still did it anyway. Russ Brandon is just fooling all of you into believing that we are actually moving forward and trying to win. Until we get a new owner we are never going to go to the playoffs again.

Edited by b stein 22
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Buftex Hall of Famer

Buftex

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I got no problem with the switch. The Bills don't have the right personnel for the 3-4, or the 4-3. There seems to be some revisionist history going on, that the Bills had this great defense, prior to this season. What did I miss? So, they were 2nd against the pass last year. Great...they were 32nd against the run! Personally, I hated our defense during the Jauron era. Buddy and Chan warned us, it wasn't going to happen overnight. So, we struggle with the defense we have, until they change some pieces and get better. You can already see some improvement, albeit small, the last few weeks. They still give up way too much yardage, but they are starting to make an occasional play or two...we're 1-8 folks...one step forward, two steps back...til they get it right.

 

They moved to a 3-4 to please the fans. Russ Brandon is a marketing genius.

 

Since when do fans choose to buy tickets, or not, based on the defensive scheme their team runs? Isn't that a little far fetched?

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Stealth RFA

Stealth

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Or because the last time we ran a 3 - 4 we were top 3 in the league on D for several years. Or because you're far more likely reason - Russ Brandon is a marketing genius.

 

heh. Ya know the last time we also were in the top 3 in defense. 2003-2004 when we played the oh yes 4-3 defense. My point being scheme is not indictive of being good. You can have good defenses in either scheme. The idea is to have good players and coaches. The Bills currently have neither. The little talent we did have was drafted because of their ability to translate into a 4-3 tampa 2. I get it the 3-4 is the in thing. The problem being more than half the league plays the defense, and it will become increasingly difficult to acquire talent in order to transition into and become a good overall unit.

 

Just for the record if you wanna argue about what scheme is better. As of right now 4 of the top 5 defenses play the 4-3. Of the 4 teams that made the conference championships last year only 1 played the 3-4. 3 of the last 4 superbowl champions yup you guessed it 4-3 defense. Its going to be easier to get players for the 4-3 just based on the amount of teams that play the 3-4.

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opfball91 Practice Squad

opfball91

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I know that, but they wanted to fool the fans to think that they are actually trying to win. Fans wanted the 3-4 because the defense sucked. The bills organization knew that they did not have the personnel to run the 3-4 and they still did it anyway. Russ Brandon is just fooling all of you into believing that we are actually moving forward and trying to win. Until we get a new owner we are never going to go to the playoffs again.

Our defense was not the problem last year, that's for damn sure. You're talking yourself in circles now.

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Heitz All Pro

Heitz

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Your reason is pretty invalid, too, considering none of the players from the previous 3-4 are even on the Bills anymore.

Bingo.

 

Just sayin', If we're going to make up reasons we're moving to a 3 - 4, I'd rather dip back to the mid-90's over "keeping the fans happy"...

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LABills08 Veteran

LABills08

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You can't complain about the Bills skipping over a TE and addressing the DL. I don't know why Carrington hasn't played yet, but I'm hoping it has more to do with the fact that the Bills defensive scheme is a mess. Rookies often don't know how to play a 3-4, as it is a complicated scheme. If you want to knock the Bills for passing on a OT or a better DL when they took Carrington, thats fine. But, knocking them for passing on Hernandez is silly. We have Nelson who by all accounts was supposed to make some serious strides this year. That is until he hurt himself and failed a drug test. Here's hoping he has a better year next season.

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opfball91 Practice Squad

opfball91

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yin and yang really, why bother passing when you can run against a team?

The total yardage and points against were my main points, we weren't atrocious by any sense of the word, that's not saying we were any good, but our struggles on offense far outweighed the defensive side of the ball.

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oak tree 12 RFA

oak tree 12

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"(Bills head coach) Chan Gailey is a very good offensive coordinator. If you remember, he was moving the ball with Tyler Thigpen in Kansas City. They were scoring 28-plus points per game. The guy knows how to move the ball. And to his credit, he has been doing it (in Buffalo) without a tight end. He's a great schemer. The part I don't understand is why they decided to switch their "40" front (on defense). Whoever made that decision made a bad call. They did not have the personnel to make the move."

 

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/11/14/insider-bills-gailey-knows-offense'>http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/11/14/insider-bills-gailey-knows-offense

 

Did a TE catch a single ball Sunday? Was Nelson active? Stupar? One stud TE to go along with our 3 serviceable TEs would go a long way in both the run and pass game.

you obviously dont know this but we still play the 3/4 almost half the time. there are many variations of the 3/4 which we employ.

 

"(Bills head coach) Chan Gailey is a very good offensive coordinator. If you remember, he was moving the ball with Tyler Thigpen in Kansas City. They were scoring 28-plus points per game. The guy knows how to move the ball. And to his credit, he has been doing it (in Buffalo) without a tight end. He's a great schemer. The part I don't understand is why they decided to switch their "40" front (on defense). Whoever made that decision made a bad call. They did not have the personnel to make the move."

 

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/11/14/insider-bills-gailey-knows-offense

 

Did a TE catch a single ball Sunday? Was Nelson active? Stupar? One stud TE to go along with our 3 serviceable TEs would go a long way in both the run and pass game.

 

we have a great young TE prospect however since his fumble (which was not his fault) it almost seems like chan is punishing him anyway.

 

IMO he will be a great TE some day.

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BillsVet All Pro

BillsVet

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9 games into the 2010 season, Nix first draft has been a bust.

Could it change-Sure, but right now, it looks bad. Spiller was not a good pick for a team with that many needs.

The national pundits were right about Spiller being a bad pick at 9 for Buffalo.

If the guy was that "electrifying" and "special" wouldnt he have shown a little something by now?

He will become good, but we should have grabbed a linebacker...

 

Part of the Spiller pick was the marketing aspect of it. He's got excellent speed, quickness, and vision, but it's wasted behind an offensive line that struggles against tough run defenses as evidenced in Toronto. Offensive lineman don't sell tickets, and the team knew they'd take a hit after letting TO go and another lackluster performance in 2009.

 

I'm pretty sure season ticket sales declined significantly from 2009 to 2010.

 

More than 11k. There'll be another drop off barring Andrew Luck in the draft. The team has eschewed top FA's in previous years, although 2010 UFA class was an aberration. If the Bills want to win faster, they'll use UFA and not thrown down a cop out of "building through the draft." After 11 seasons of bad to mediocre football, fans are starting to demand a winner.

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John from Riverside Hall of Famer

John from Riverside

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"(Bills head coach) Chan Gailey is a very good offensive coordinator. If you remember, he was moving the ball with Tyler Thigpen in Kansas City. They were scoring 28-plus points per game. The guy knows how to move the ball. And to his credit, he has been doing it (in Buffalo) without a tight end. He's a great schemer. The part I don't understand is why they decided to switch their "40" front (on defense). Whoever made that decision made a bad call. They did not have the personnel to make the move."

 

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/11/14/insider-bills-gailey-knows-offense

 

Did a TE catch a single ball Sunday? Was Nelson active? Stupar? One stud TE to go along with our 3 serviceable TEs would go a long way in both the run and pass game.

 

 

I have been preaching that for a while....this is the time of year when a lot of us start talking once again about the importance of a NFL caliber Tight End and what it does for the offense......

 

- While we complain about the offensive line blocking we totally go past the fact that good offensive teams have a Tight End that is on the field making that key block down the field.

 

- How much better would Fitz be if he had a sure handed dependable big target in the Red Zone and 1st down markers.......the Raiders TE comes to mind who is also a free agent this next year.

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Coach Tuesday Hall of Famer

Coach Tuesday

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I have been preaching that for a while....this is the time of year when a lot of us start talking once again about the importance of a NFL caliber Tight End and what it does for the offense......

 

- While we complain about the offensive line blocking we totally go past the fact that good offensive teams have a Tight End that is on the field making that key block down the field.

 

- How much better would Fitz be if he had a sure handed dependable big target in the Red Zone and 1st down markers.......the Raiders TE comes to mind who is also a free agent this next year.

 

The importance of a TE cannot be overstated. In addition to the above, TEs also are used to move linebackers and safeties out of passing lanes in order to create space over the deep middle for your WRs. I too am amazed that Gailey has been so effective in designing route combinations without a viable TE, or, now, a slot receiver.

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webtoe Rookie

webtoe

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It seems like the only person who theoretically would benefit from the switch is Maybin and he can't even play himself onto the active roster.

 

I think we have a winner. I think, based on the history with Edwards, they changed at least in part in order to see if they could salvage what appeared to be a major bust. Now that they know that there is nothing to salvage, at least not yet, they want back to a defense that suited the rest of the players.

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JohnC All Pro

JohnC

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Part of the Spiller pick was the marketing aspect of it. He's got excellent speed, quickness, and vision, but it's wasted behind an offensive line that struggles against tough run defenses as evidenced in Toronto. Offensive lineman don't sell tickets, and the team knew they'd take a hit after letting TO go and another lackluster performance in 2009.

 

 

 

More than 11k. There'll be another drop off barring Andrew Luck in the draft. The team has eschewed top FA's in previous years, although 2010 UFA class was an aberration. If the Bills want to win faster, they'll use UFA and not thrown down a cop out of "building through the draft." After 11 seasons of bad to mediocre football, fans are starting to demand a winner.

 

The Bills got a top ten talent in a top ten draft positon. What is there to complain about? The rational for this pick was that he was a top ten talent and a potential playmaker. How is that wrong? Do the Bills still need to upgrade the line (OTs)? Of course. They need to upgrade a lot of positions. At this point the Bills are a little more advanced than an expansion team.

 

Last year was an odd year in that the league was going to reopen their CBA contract thus affecting the free agent market. It really didn't matter because the Bills are not the type of franchise to pursue the upper tier free agents.

 

The Bills are going to rebuild through the draft. It's just the way it is. The owner is 92 yrs old and he is not going to splurge for a quick fix. That spendthrift apporach doesn't work for a bad team anyway.

 

As you and many others have noted the success and speed of a turnaround for this franchise is predicated on how well the team drafts over the next few years. That is the open question. It will be easier to assess this year's draft next year or the year after than trying to assess it this year.

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Sisyphean Bills All Pro

Sisyphean Bills

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Posted (edited)

What if Russ Brandon forced Chan to get a coach that uses the 3-4. So they can fool the fan base and get them to buy more season tickets.

The idea was far more likely to find a way to get Aaron Maybin on the field and get more out of that particular investment (boondoggle). It wouldn't be surprising in the least if the orders came from higher up to get Maybin on the field.

 

Edit: The other likely scenario, that Gailey just preferred to run the 3-4 was already mentioned above. The troubling part about it being purely a coaching decision is that many people could see that the Bills didn't have the right personnel to make the switch. So, that sort of goes back to the decision being less about purely coaching concerns. Remember, Russ Brandon was GM when Aaron Maybin was drafted.

Edited by Sisyphean Bills
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scoring is not hardy Rookie

scoring is not hardy

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The marketing theory is ridiculous. Like the average fan is going to get super excited about a switch in schemes, hell most casual fans probably don't know the difference anyways. I guess they really missed the boat on the campaign. "2010, a season to believe switch to the 3-4"

 

Gailey said he wanted to run the 3-4 because he knows how difficult it is to game plan against. Coming from an offensive coach I believe it.

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BobChalmers Veteran

BobChalmers

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Why would the fans give a **** if we went to a 3-4?

 

OH PLEASE! Are you going to pretend you weren't on this board for the past few years??

 

I was one of the few here arguing that a 4-3 is just fine, and that switching to a 3-4 when it's trendy is a mistake because we're competing with more teams for the same player-types, but I was definitely a voice in the wilderness.

 

The fans here, anyway, have been screaming for a 3-4 for years now. Because we play against 3 division opponents who use it successfully (and we were hoping it would help our offense to practice against it), because it starts with larger D-Linemen, which casual fans translate to better run defense, the reasons didn't have to be correct, but they were all there.

Edited by BobChalmers
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Spiderweb Veteran

Spiderweb

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heh. Ya know the last time we also were in the top 3 in defense. 2003-2004 when we played the oh yes 4-3 defense. My point being scheme is not indictive of being good. You can have good defenses in either scheme. The idea is to have good players and coaches. The Bills currently have neither. The little talent we did have was drafted because of their ability to translate into a 4-3 tampa 2. I get it the 3-4 is the in thing. The problem being more than half the league plays the defense, and it will become increasingly difficult to acquire talent in order to transition into and become a good overall unit.

 

Just for the record if you wanna argue about what scheme is better. As of right now 4 of the top 5 defenses play the 4-3. Of the 4 teams that made the conference championships last year only 1 played the 3-4. 3 of the last 4 superbowl champions yup you guessed it 4-3 defense. Its going to be easier to get players for the 4-3 just based on the amount of teams that play the 3-4.

 

Yeah, we played a 4-3, but we had Sam Adams and Pat Williams at the tackles, with Schobel in his youth and Ryan Denney on the line. Yes Denney was the weak link, yet the defense was strong overall and Denney did chip in with 3.5 sacks. All things being equal, Denney always seemed to do a better job than Kelsay to me, at least in making plays. Yet, the Bills brass saw it differently and maybe justifiably as Denney wasn't a star by any means.

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whodat Practice Squad

whodat

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What if Russ Brandon forced Chan to get a coach that uses the 3-4. So they can fool the fan base and get them to buy more season tickets.

 

I gotcha. Thank goodness for total ignorance. For without that none of us would be here.

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Deadstroke Rookie

Deadstroke

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http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/11/14/insider-bills-gailey-knows-offense

 

Did a TE catch a single ball Sunday? Was Nelson active? Stupar? One stud TE to go along with our 3 serviceable TEs would go a long way in both the run and pass game.

 

Nelson has all the receiving ability the Bills need, the problem is that at the present time we feel the need for max blocking so the TE stays in and therefore as you can see by the stats, no significant receiving at the TE position. Shame! But hopefully it'll change as the OL improves.

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