Kingfish Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Yeah, and Wending looked really good on special teams in 2009. Leonard had the support of an outstanding defense/scheme in Baltimore, so you can't really say whose contribution, during which year, was more valuable to his respective team. Excelling at special teams doesn't necessarily translate into positional success. Just look at Steve Tasker or Larry Izzo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Look for Washington to pick up a few of these guys...I was surprised a little by the DT - he was supposed to be the only guy on this roster with the prototypical NT build. I would also watch the Saints to pick up a few, too. Greggo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Maybe we're moving Corto to SS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProjectPat Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I think Wendling was a mistake....... Same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 More change is to come. I bet we see some of of the Veterans given a kick to the door as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Excelling at special teams doesn't necessarily translate into positional success. Just look at Steve Tasker or Larry Izzo. Bro, I know this. I never implied he'd be a good safety. He WILL, however, continue to be a special teams contributor. And that's enough to make people cry about firing him. I could care less that we don't have Jim Leonard anymore, and I could care less that we don't have Wendling. But I'm telling you, every time the guy appears in a highlight, folks will grab their torches and pitchforks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renfruzetz Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 REally, they weren't that good anyways. Anyhow, I'd rather have a good offense or defense. A good special teams hasn't been to helpful the last nine years anyway Yeah, our ST sucked. That's why Bobby April was voted coach of the year by his peers. Twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sven233 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Has anyone looked into the cap hit to do this? And how did Parrish make today's cut? Don't rush to get Parrish out of here just yet. I am in no way saying he is going to be a star, in fact there is little chance of that happening, but I actually want to see him in a real NFL offense before we make a final decision on him. The guy has talent when the ball is in his hands and I just think he has not been given a real opportunity to take advantage of his skills. Dicky J's offense was no more complex than a high school offense and he was not put into a position to succeed. Again, I am not saying that he will be anything more than average, ever, but I just want to see him in a creative offense.....perhaps even go in motion once in a while. I think they still allow motion in the NFL, right? Been so long since I have seen it in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuncha Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I guess that must mean the team is somewhat impressed with Stupar! Nice! Stupar can be a good TE in this league. The guy knows how to get open and can CATCH the ball. The dumb moron coaches last year rarely used TE's in the passing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Well Beerbawl will be happy, he never liked D. Fine, or his choice in confectionaries anyway. Damn straight, what adult lists candy corn as their favorite halloween treat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullpen Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Damn straight, what adult lists candy corn as their favorite halloween treat. I bet at Easter time, he's the guy who actually LIKES the inside of those Cadbury Cream Eggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Bills fan Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 but... but... he can jump really high! I'm no Jim Leonhard fan but Jim Leonhard is far and away better than John Wendling. With that said Jairus Byrd/George Wilson/Bryan Scott/Donte Whitner are all better than Jim Leonhard. Why people keep using Leonhard as some guy we shouldn't have cut I'll never understand. He was never a better punt returner than Parrish and was never one of our top 2 safeties to earn time on the field. He got lucky Than Dawan Landry got injured in Baltimore that led to his playing time 2 seasons ago, and became Rex Ryans version of Pierson Prioleau of Gregg Williams/Prioleau type relationship. And at that time he was also not better than Ko Simpson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rstencel Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Well, I guess by having less borderline veterans on the roster, it will help them sign the undrafted freeagents after the draft atleast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Damn straight, what adult lists candy corn as their favorite halloween treat. Candy corn sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 hopefully we will get ST players that can actually play a position. these guys represent one of the main reasons we have been bad, depth. These guys took spots from 2nd and 3rd stringers that could have provided depth when starters were injured. At least they contributed something. Not unusual to have a few guys who's main contribution is special teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I'm no Jim Leonhard fan but Jim Leonhard is far and away better than John Wendling. With that said Jairus Byrd/George Wilson/Bryan Scott/Donte Whitner are all better than Jim Leonhard. Why people keep using Leonhard as some guy we shouldn't have cut I'll never understand. He was never a better punt returner than Parrish and was never one of our top 2 safeties to earn time on the field. He got lucky Than Dawan Landry got injured in Baltimore that led to his playing time 2 seasons ago, and became Rex Ryans version of Pierson Prioleau of Gregg Williams/Prioleau type relationship. And at that time he was also not better than Ko Simpson It's so true. People have a unique revisionist relationship with Leonhard. Fletcher too. Just because a player the Bills used to have is starting somewhere else does not mean they were the best option. Clearly Leonhard wouldn't make the Bills' roster with our current safety depth so I don't see how cutting him or Wendling for that matter is a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Same Seems like he could have been looked at on the field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I would have kept palmer. too small for a 3-4 OLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInUticaTampa Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Palmer is a mild surprise.... any chance they put him in practice squad and bump someone out of there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I'm not sure why you cut guys before training camp. Why not see what they can do in your system? Plus, you never know about injuries, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Not much to miss. We didn't cut anyone worth their weight, all we simply did was cut a few of the past administration's role players. Good to see this new crew trying to make their imprint on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordByrd Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 shoulda kept wendling and fine. the rest of 'em... eh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 There's hardly anybody on this roster that I would really give a damn if they were cut tomorrow. These guys certainly weren't among them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndZoneCrew Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 people are really arguing about these cuts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyT Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Good bye guys. Only question is who's next?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 so what's the point of cutting these guys now? Their salaries don't vest until the 1st regular season game. why cut them now when their replacements are nowhere to be seen? Typical Bills front office creating holes for no good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 so what's the point of cutting these guys now? Their salaries don't vest until the 1st regular season game. why cut them now when their replacements are nowhere to be seen? Typical Bills front office creating holes for no good reason. What holes do these cuts create? A 5th string safety our 4th best te....Ashlee Palmer really. St's players come and go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Ah Derick Fine.... the TE no one wanted to Bills to draft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Excelling at special teams doesn't necessarily translate into positional success. Just look at Steve Tasker or Larry Izzo. Steve Tasker is not really a good example, though your point is well taken. Long time Bills fans remember and know that Steve Tasker finally got his long overdue opportunity to play from scrimmage for the Bills in two of his last NFL seasons, in 1995-96. He played as a slot receiver in 21 games and started 10 of those games. Tasker was uncoverable as a slot receiver (think Wes Welker...they are the exact same size...25 pounds heavier than Roscoe Parrish BTW...and both are from the Kansas-Oklahoma area) and was used frequently on end arounds from the slot. Tasker ran precise routes and got in and out of his cuts in the blink of an eye. He also had excellent hands. In those two seasons Tasker had 41 receptions for 627 yards (15.3 ypr) and 6 TDs as the Bills' 3rd/4th receiver. In those two seasons he also rushed the ball 17 times for a 6.5 ypc on the slot receiver end around play. It is clear to those who saw him play from scrimmage that Marv made a mistake in restricting Tasker to special teams coverage duty only. Not only that but Marv didn't allow Tasker to return punts during his career, only relenting for the final three years of their careers (Tasker and Levy both retired after the 1997 season). Tasker averaged 10.5 yards per punt return over his last three years which were the only years he was ever used as a punt returner. Considering how effective an offensive weapon Tasker was in the 3 years before his retirement, it's a damn shame he never got any offensive or special teams touches in his first 8 seasons with the Bills when he was in his athletic prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonInBuffalo Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 As others mentioned, one reason these players may have been cut was to give them a better chance at catching on with another team. Palmer is a bit of a surprise. I thought he played really well on ST toward the end of last season, and he was playing well enough at LB to get on the field in some situations. Maybe the coaches thought he was a bad fit for the new system. Also keep in mind there's a major roster logjam at OLB. Possibly as many as 10 players on the current roster would be on that depth chart if camp opened today. Wendling got cut because he can't play S at all. He got on the field a little bit late in the week 4 Miami game. I went back and watched that, and he was just brutal. He was so bad the next time the Bills had to deal with S depth issues, they had Nic Harris practice there, so they could use him instead of Wendling. That's a sure-fire way to get yourself cut. If you are so bad at your position they have players at other positions taking practice reps in front of you, then you probably don't deserve your roster spot. If the coaches decided they never expect Jenkins to develop into a WR that will get anything resembling regular playing time, then it makes sense to cut him too. Someone suggested that Marcus Smith could have played NT in the 3-4. I looked up his measurements, and he's something like 6-3 295. So he appears to be too small for NT. Based on what I read, Smith, McGhee, and Phillip were all basically roster fodder that suffered season-ending injuries in training camp last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonInBuffalo Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Steve Tasker is not really a good example, though your point is well taken. Long time Bills fans remember and know that Steve Tasker finally got his long overdue opportunity to play from scrimmage for the Bills in two of his last NFL seasons, in 1995-96. He played as a slot receiver in 21 games and started 10 of those games. Tasker was uncoverable as a slot receiver (think Wes Welker...they are the exact same size...25 pounds heavier than Roscoe Parrish BTW...and both are from the Kansas-Oklahoma area) and was used frequently on end arounds from the slot. Tasker ran precise routes and got in and out of his cuts in the blink of an eye. He also had excellent hands. In those two seasons Tasker had 41 receptions for 627 yards (15.3 ypr) and 6 TDs as the Bills' 3rd/4th receiver. In those two seasons he also rushed the ball 17 times for a 6.5 ypc on the slot receiver end around play. It is clear to those who saw him play from scrimmage that Marv made a mistake in restricting Tasker to special teams coverage duty only. Not only that but Marv didn't allow Tasker to return punts during his career, only relenting for the final three years of their careers (Tasker and Levy both retired after the 1997 season). Tasker averaged 10.5 yards per punt return over his last three years which were the only years he was ever used as a punt returner. Considering how effective an offensive weapon Tasker was in the 3 years before his retirement, it's a damn shame he never got any offensive or special teams touches in his first 8 seasons with the Bills when he was in his athletic prime. IMO Tasker was limited to his ST role for most of his career primarily because he was so good at it. Jim Kelly has said that he thought Tasker could have been a Pro Bowl WR if he played there his entire career. Tasker was a damn good football player, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaBill Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I cant believe they cut wendling, I mean the guy could jump out of a pool and land on his feet for christs sake!!! that talent alone should warrant him a roster spot, what ever shall we do without him. Such a loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharper802 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 "The reshaping of Buffalo’s roster has begun in earnest as they waived seven players Tuesday. The Bills announced the release of TE Derek Fine, DE Jermaine McGhee, LB Ashlee Palmer, DT Marcus Smith, S John Wendling, WR Justin Jenkins and C Marvin Philip." Great! There really is a new direction @ OBD! Wendling, Fine & Jenkins represent everything bad about the Bills talent level over the past few seasons. Hell, all of 'em do. Spot on. Wendling had to go. Fine is another example of a wasted draft pick. Most people thought he could have been a FA signing after the draft and they wasted a 4th round pick on him. That could have been a starting guard, a true NFL sized LB, a center, or another project player for either DT or OT. I would bet none of these guys even see an NFL camp this Summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharper802 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Good bye guys. Only question is who's next?! Josh Reed(not resigned), Ryan Denney, Keith Ellison, Johnathan Stupar, and Ashton Yobouty(not resigned as I think he is in final year of contract) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Syracuse Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I wish Steve Tasker had played about 8 years worth of WR for the Bills. I think he could have been better than Wes Welker if he'd played the WR position from day 1. Anyone else remember the Dolphins game where he had 3 reverses for about 90 yards? I think that was also the game where he made Bryan Cox so crazy that Cox lost his mind and was thrown out of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Josh Reed(not resigned), Ryan Denney, Keith Ellison, Johnathan Stupar, and Ashton Yobouty(not resigned as I think he is in final year of contract) Yeah, but they're restricted, I bet they'll be back at least for camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 What holes do these cuts create? A 5th string safety our 4th best te....Ashlee Palmer really. St's players come and go. What he said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Excelling at special teams doesn't necessarily translate into positional success. Just look at Steve Tasker or Larry Izzo. If you recall, Tasker was a serviceable receiver late in his career. Early on, with Marv Levys' emphasis on special teams play, Tasker wasn't asked/needed as an offensive player. When the receiving corp grew old, and thin, Tasker wasn't bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 IMO Tasker was limited to his ST role for most of his career primarily because he was so good at it. Jim Kelly has said that he thought Tasker could have been a Pro Bowl WR if he played there his entire career. Tasker was a damn good football player, period. +10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robkmil Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I agree with the Lady. ST has been our best unit over the last few years and we just cut 2 "starters". Since neither Jenkins or Wendling has started a game in the past 3 years, I fail to see how "These guys took spots from 2nd and 3rd stringers that could have provided depth when starters were injured." Fine has more NFL starts than Maybin and Ellis combined. Sure, he's been hurt but he can probably make it through an off-season without injury. I am all for improving the overall talent level but I don't think replacing our #6 WR. #6 safety and #4 TE is going to make any difference. these guys (outside of Fine) aren't even back ups at their positions. When the starters got hurt we signed scrap heap guys to play on offense and defense over these guys. So getting ST players that may contribute somewhere else really upgrades the roster and those positions may be replaced with guys that can compete with other players. Corto should be next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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