billsfan89

I think the idea that people thought Coopers value was Shaq Lawson (A player who would be a throw in) and a 4th round pick must make people think Cooper is having a bad year (he isn't) or that Cooper is an over hyped player. Sammy commanded a 2nd and a defensive player of modest value and I would say Cooper 3 years in had more success and less concerns. Yes Cooper does have his flaws esp when it comes to drops but he still is a high caliber receiver who is in his prime. I think Cooper is going to want at least Sammy/Allen Robinson type money out on the open market. That's why I would be hesitant to trade for him as I don't think he has proven to be worth anywhere near the 16 million he likely will command. I do actually think Cooper is better than Sammy and Allen Robinson but those deals throw the market out of whack because there haven't been many legit WR's to hit the market and WR drafts haven't been strong recently. Once again you can say hey this is what I would be willing to offer (Shaq plus a mid round pick) but that's far from what his value actually would be in a trade. It's not like Amari Cooper is in Gruden's dog house or has requested a trade and he is having a productive season. The Raiders aren't shopping him and they likely value him because he is their most productive receiver and he is locked in for one more year at a price that is close to what he is worth.

In the 2019 Off-season the Bills will have enough to sign a top edge rusher and sign 3-4 high caliber starting players on offense if not more. If the Bills were paying Sammy 16 million to be a upper mid level WR that becomes that much harder to do. The Bills also wouldn't have had a quality year from Gaines and one of the picks used to trade up for Allen if they held onto Sammy. As much as Sammy would be by far better than any WR on the roster he doesn't come close to justifying his salary even in the context of free agents always getting overpaid as a force of the market. The Bills in 2019 will be in a position to do a massive spending spree around Allen mainly because they won't have big contracts like Sammy's clogging up the books.

You are missing the argument here. No one is disputing that Sammy, Cordy, and Dareus aren't talented players and that they would help the Bills out currently. The argument is that Cordy was coming off of 2 straight injury riddled seasons and on a massive contract the Bills got a bump up in draft positioning equal to a mid second round pick. They got value and cleared salary cap space for a player who they were uncertain would play often the same thing can be said for Sammy. Dareus wasn't producing to the level of his massive contract and was causing locker room issues the Bills dumped him and took the hit getting rid of a massive deal to free up future cap space. But once again and here is the big kicker what is the Bills record if they are paying those players 40 million dollar of 2018 and 2019 cap? Are you really thinking it was a bad idea to get draft picks and free up space because the Bills might lose 2-3 more games in a season where they were never going to win more than 7 or 8 games anyway? What's the goal to have the cap space and assets to acquire to build around a young QB on a rookie contract or to win 2-3 more games in the short term? Now just because McBeane has the right philsophy doesn't mean they will execute. They already flubbed the Star signing for example but you don't get into the position to spend around a cheap QB if you hold onto players with big injury histories and contracts that will only look worse as time goes on.

It's been an ugly season so far. But its not like the Bills don't have a long term plan in place for success. The current regime hasn't "shot their shot" yet. So far their drafts have been strong and their free agency periods have had mixed results (2017 with McD and Whaley they did a good job finding some players with limited cap space but in 2018 McBeane's two big free agent acquisitions have been underwhelming at best.) But the current regime has the cap space to build the roster that can have a talent level needed to compete. 2019 will be make or break. 2018 was always a rebuilding year in my mind. They changed from a veteran QB and moved on from some older players. They also had to eat a lot of dead cap to get out from under certain salary cap constraints. But if they have the cap space in 2019 and can't progress this team they deserved to be **** canned.

People act like rebuilds aren't done this way. Yes the Bills took it to a more extreme level but the Dead cap is also some bad luck with the InCog and Wood retirements. I also love the fans that act like this team would be a Super Bowl contender with Glenn, Dareus, Sammy, Tyrod, and Darby. This team is bad and some of the talent moves like Star and KB have been questionable but they didn't gut a team that would have been anything better than 8-8.

That is such bull ****. Sammy is on pace to put up 704 yards, 4 TD's, and 56 receptions, if the Bills were paying Sammy 16 million to put up those numbers you would be crushing the Bills for overpaying for a guy who was hyped in college but didn't do that much to justify 6 million dollars less than Mack. Your logic is absurd, our guys suck so we should have overpaid for Watkins? Come on you have to do better than that. The Bills WR core is trash so Sammy being better than trash is hardly justification for why we should have overpaid for him. I would rather have the pick, a year of good corner back play, and massive amounts of cap space to work with than a guy whose only justification for his salary you have given is that he is better than the trash on the team now. Honestly what would the Bills record be if they had Sammy instead of KB, Darby, Glenn, Tyrod, and Dareus instead of Star and Edumonds (I think that without the extra picks and draft spots they don't have enough to trade up for Allen and Edumonds, they probably have to give up picks 21, 22, and 53 to trade up for Allen?) At best they are 2-2, but in all likelihood they could still currently be 1-3. What is the difference with those players on the roster? Right now we win 3-5 games maybe with those players we go 7-9? You are acting like the Bills got nothing for these players and they are the difference between the Bills being in the Superbowl and where they are now. Yes they are better but being modestly better in 2018 doesn't help this team that much to build to a contender long term. I don't know if McBeane will use the cap space wisely but I think the philsophy of clear the space while getting the rookie QB is one that has been proven to be successful.

NO ONE IS DISPUTING SAMMY WATKINS IS A BETTER PLAYER THAN KB. What I am saying is Sammy is vastly overpaid and we got a 2nd round pick plus a good corner for him. Do you think the missing piece to a Bills championship are Sammy Watkins at 16 million per-season and Cordy Glenn and Dareus around 13 million per? I think they could have gotten a similar player like Lotulelei for much cheaper. Dude is going to be a huge cap hit next year and I honestly think there were players out on the market that could have done what he does for 5-6 million less annual average. Murphy is at least an easy contract to get out of. The Bills are likely unable to get out of Star's deal until 2020 and more realistically 2021.

Sammy signed for a deal that pays him 16 million per year and is almost fully guaranteed. He isn't anywhere near worth that kind of money. I would rather have the 2nd round pick and a solid corner like Gaines even if Gaines turned out just to be a rental. I would rather toss that 16 million or a dash more to go after a prime time edge rusher than have Sammy a second tier WR at best on the roster.

Another issue is if the Bills have a top 2 pick and there aren't any teams looking to trade up for a QB then do they go with Oliver or Bosa at the top of the draft? IF that's the case I still want Brandon Graham in the range of 15-17.5 million per because Oliver would give you that interior push or Bosa would make your edge rush 3 deep. But then that makes filling out you WR core that much harder, yes you have an early second round pick to add a young player and you could double dip back into the early third or trade up into the second again for another WR but you still probably need to grab at least 2 proven vet WR's or a vet WR and a tight end (depending on if you keep Clay.) I think the Bills with their cap space are in a great position to add a dynamic pass rusher and fill out their offensive line and add a vet WR and another skill position player. Either way I think 2019 is make or break for the Bills in free agency. They need to find a pass rusher and at least 2 starters along the O-line along with drastically improving the skill position core before entering into the draft. You have Allen on a rookie deal it is now or never in 2019. I don't think Clowney will hit the market, sadly I think that if he continues to be dominant the Texans will franchise him. The Texans have the cap to make it work. But I do think that if he was out on the market he should be the Bills number one defensive free agent target. I think with the Eagles salary cap situation Brandon Graham will likely hit the market and he would make for a fine consolation prize as he is a very legit edge rushers and probably would command a little less.

Sadly it is looking like the free agency crop is very limited along the WR corps. The O-line crop isn't strong either but there are players to be had. There are however a lot of pass rushers on the market and I could see the Bills filling a big defensive need with a player like Clowney. Granted they could hand Clowney 20 million a year (Which would in my opinion set up the defense to be a top 5 unit only thing they could possibly need is a slot corner) and still have plenty of space to add other free agents on the offensive side (90 million in cap space can go a long way and they can clear 10-20 million more.) I would love to see the Bills target Clowney if he hits the market (If not Brandon Graham from the Eagles would be a nice addition), find a decent slot corner if that still is a need, while on offense I would love to see the Bills go after Rodger Saffold and Ali Marpet. Both players would immediately solidify the interior O-line. As far as skill position players Tevin Coleman would be a nice add at a right price and Golden Tate and or John Brown would be good targets. I think the draft is where they go WR heavy in rounds 1-3. I hope the Bills plan to spend big in 2019, they need at least 3-4 big impact free agents on offense and they should be able to do that and afford a pass rusher to round out the defense.

People act like this is April and we are in the middle of free agency where there are all these WR's on the market. Dez to me would be about as productive as KB and not worth the locker room issues. I hope that the Bills maybe kick the tires on a WR like Matthews but I hold no delusions of grandeur that any street level free agent is going to offer a meaningful upgrade to what the team has. Now I do think it is possible that there might be someone off the street that can offer an upgrade but we aren't talking about anything insane. Maybe a guy like Matthews is a little better than what we are throwing out there. But there are no major difference makers out on the market. I also like the Phillips signing, yes we are deep at DT but if a good player falls into your lap it doesn't matter how deep you are if he offers an upgrade take him.

I think his value is higher or at least as high to the Raiders. The Raiders are paying Carr and if they get rid of Cooper their best receiver for draft picks and throw in players than that is not only going to make the Raiders that much worse this season but it is going to piss off their franchise QB who is being paid like one. I don't think Cooper is on the market unless there is a very high offer for him. The Raiders don't have many blue chip young offensive players around Carr, Cooper and the tackle they just drafted Miller are the only two (Maybe Bryant if he comes back from suspension one day) you can't erode your offensive talent base like that to take back mid round picks. I think all these Shaq plus 2 mid round picks should get it done people are just day dreaming.

The Raiders picked up Coopers fifth year option which is for 13.9 million. Also why are people in this thread acting like Cooper is a trash player? He had 2 good years to start out his career and is on pace for 1,100 yards this season. The dude is legit productive and locked in for 2019 at a rate that is right around his production/potential level. If Cooper was off to a rough start to the season and beefing with Gruden I could see his value being lower but at the moment he is their best receiver.

You aren't getting Cooper for trash plus a mid round pick, this ain't Madden. Guess what if you are willing to part with players than they aren't any good then other teams probably know those players suck. Lawson I could see the Raiders wanting as a throw in but KB is stinking it up and McCoy is an older running back on a big contract not having a good start to the season. None of those players bring value to a trade other than a throw in. If the Raiders are trading Cooper they are going to want a 2nd round pick plus a 2020 pick. I am not saying I would give them that but that's what it would take to get Gruden to part with his best WR who is young and signed for a reasonable rate in 2019 and is currently on pace for 1,100 yards (And has 2 previous 1,000 yard seasons.) I would give the Raiders any throw in player or two they cherry picked off the Roster plus two third round picks for Cooper. The WR market isn't strong in 2019 free agency and Cooper at 13 million is a good value. But I wouldn't part with a 2nd round pick for him given his drop habits.

Wood and InCog are sorely missed. I knew this O-line was going to be a disaster once InCog retired. I was hoping InCog and Dawkins would be good players on the left side and Groy would be a competent center. But once InCog retired he opened a big hole on the left side of the line that has collapsed any hope of that unit being capable.

Once again not defending KB or Star (Although I think Star is a decent player just way overpaid for the role and talent level he brings) but while I don't disagree that the team would be better with Glenn along the line, Sammy in the WR core, and with Dareus and Darby out there but that assumes that for one Sammy and Glenn would stay healthy (which there was no guarantee of,) Darby would be a fit in the zone system (which was questionable) and Dareus wouldn't be a issue in the locker room (Which he already was in 2017.) Also this team would be what 7-9 or 8-8 with those players IF They were healthy and not causing an issue? You are acting like those 4-5 players are the difference between the Bills contending for a Super Bowl and being what they are now. The Bills in 2019 will be in a position to add massive amounts of talent around Allen and maybe add a pass rusher to the defense. That's not saying McBeane will add better players with the cap space but rather that was the right way to go about it in order to actually be able to put the team in a position to rebuild properly. Yes even if the team was paying Cordy, Sammy, and Dareus while also possibly handing Darby a deal the Bills still would have some cap space to add some talent but they probably would be paying those 3 for diminishing returns towards the back end of second contracts as opposed to being able to add a lot of talent in short order. Cordy, Sammy, and Dareus would be eating up 45 million on the cap and two out of three have massive injury issues and the third was an under-performing malcontent who was also overpaid. I would rather have the draft picks that helped net Allen and Edumonds while also retaining cap space than pay those three who would help the team go 7-9 or 8-8. Sometimes you have to take 1 step back to take 2 steps forward.

KB is making 8.5 million and he is off the books after this season. Sammy is due 32 million in 2019 and 2020. Star's cap hit this season is 6.5 million much lower than Dareus's but had Dareus stayed with the Bills he would be a 15 million dollar cap hit in 2019 and 2020 whereas Star is a 10 million dollar cap hit. Once again if the Bills had Sammy, Dareus, Tyrod, Darby, and Glenn are they a contender? I am also not defending the Star contract or the ability for McBeane to sign pro-talent. However that doesn't mean the philsophy of getting draft capital and dumping players on big contracts wasn't the right move in philsophy. The Bills holding onto aging injury prone talent to win a little more in the short term wouldn't help the team.

The Bills traded away Sammy, Darby, Dareus, Glenn, and Tyrod. Besides Darby (Who did not fit the scheme McD intended to run) all those players were either older or injury prone. Getting value for those players while shedding their contracts is the proper way to build a team. Do you think that this team would be a contender with those players on this team occupying 60 million on the cap? Sammy is making 16 million a year for the next 3 seasons and when the Bills traded him Sammy was a injury prone player. Dareus was a 28 year old player on a massive contract who was a under performing malcontent in the locker room. Cordy Glenn hadn't played a full season since 2015 and was on a massive contract, he was also 29 years old, not ancient but not young. Tyrod had one year remaining on his deal and although I would have preferred to keep him for the final year but the draft compensation was solid and he was gone after one year anyway. The only young player without a massive injury history the team gave up was Darby. The method to success in the NFL is to build around a rookie QB on a cheap contract. The Bills have Allen who once the 2019 season comes around will have 3 years remaining on his deal with a 5th year option. The Bills will be in a position to add a massive amount of talent in short order around a young QB instead of paying injury prone older players.

Shocked Gruden wanted to go defense. James is balling out but Kolton Miller is quietly putting together a nice season in his own right.

Snowden exposed the government spying on its people en mass illegally, basically we have no 4th amendment and Snowden exposed it. Bradley Manning exposed war crimes being committed on behalf of the American people. There was a good that was being done by what they did. Yes it did put people at risk in doing the right thing but their aims and end results were towards a good that was apolitical. Is America about upholding what is right or the aims of our governments interests? Because if America is about doing the right thing then I don't know how you can't consider exposing corruption and war crimes a bad thing. I am not saying that Senators and their families lives are more important but rather the person putting those lives in danger did so for a political aim. Which serves no purpose but a self serving one.

What this person did was awful, it literally put the lives of Senators and their families at risk for nothing more than a political gain. Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning are heroes who put their lives on the line to expose corruption. !@#$ off if you don't want to know what unconstitutional war crimes your government is committing.

Your trade proposal was somewhat reasonable (Although I think they would have to take back at least a 3rd in 2019) but there were other posters saying Shaq and a 4th or 5th which was absolutely absurd.

Gruden is an offensive guy, I doubt he is going to trade his number one young receiver for Shaq !@#$ing Lawson and a 4th or 5th round pick. Cooper has two 1,000 yard seasons in his first three years and has been outright dynamic at times. He is on pace for 1,100 yards so far this season. He has a 5th year option at a fairly reasonable rate for his production level. Why is a draft bust in Lawson and a mid round pick enough to attain this guy? I wouldn't mind trading for Cooper but it is going to take more than Lawson and a mid round pick. It probably would at least take a 2nd rounder or two 3rd round picks to make this trade happen. I would consider it for that price because I think Cooper will be cheaper and as good as any WR on the market next year but that's probably a price most on here wouldn't be willing to pay.

McD was responding to a question about the depth chart and roster adjustments, so it isn't a matter of him not being focused on coaching but just responding to a question asked to him. Once you hit past the draft (esp with the draft being much later than free agency) you pretty much have the principle portions of your roster is about 95% set. There aren't many June cuts now with the post June 1st designation. The only significant additions to rosters beyond the draft are usually trades (Any good free agent is signed by that point) or the occasional cap casualty. Neither one happens often unless you are the 2017 Bills. The culture is built year long so that is always a (no pun intended) process. Overall I think that the X's and O's and general culture are a big part of in season and off-season decision making so I don't think that him answering a question about the roster means he isn't focused on the X's and O's.

The context of the quote is odd too. The question seemed to be asking what is your strategy in figuring out the roster and depth chart. And in that respect culture is huge and important. This isn't and X's and O's question more of a philsophy question. In that context the quote makes more sense.