Alphadawg7

I was all about drafting him, especially over Rosen. But even though I knew he was athletic, I didn't realize just how off the charts it was. As far as WTF throws, certainty were some but as the season went on there more and more WOW moments than WTF. Overall, I don’t think there as much WTF throws as many expected or predicted. Especially once Josh came back from injury and after the KB cut. His final comp % wasn’t great but it also doesn’t tell the whole story of dropped passes, penalties, and miscommunications that brought it down a lot too. So while accuracy is for sure an area to improve still, it was not really as bad as people predicted, nor as bad as the stat suggests. More importantly, he got better and better over the course of the season. For me, I am not that concerned about accuracy, I think he is going to be fine and will break out with some better talent to work with as soon as this year.

Um, I don't think you are not making your point well again here. And I am not trying to pick on you here...its all good, just discussing further. Five of those teams have very good TEs or better: Chiefs, Pats, Steelers, Colts, Bears. Rams TE's are clearly better than you think given you just put LOL. I would take Tyler or Everett here happily. They are not as featured as the others and Everett has a lot of upside still as a receiver going into his 3rd year. No one said the prerequisite for being a top 10 offense is that you have to have an elite TE, so not really sure what the point is here even though it kind of back fired since 5 of them have very good or better ones and the Rams you undervalued the talent as a 6th team. This list also conveniently leaves off Kittle and Ertz given one lost his QB for the season and the other team had a down year offensively with Wentz coming back from injury then getting hurt again. Yet both those guys are excellent and on good offenses when the QB's are healthy. I mean, there is no denying a top flight TE is an excellent weapon. Why would anyone be against having an excellent weapon who is a constant mismatch for the defense? Is it the only path to a good offense, no of course not, but neither are any of the positions. Last 7 SB winners...no real elite WR's except Thomas for Broncos...only real RB stud was Lynch 7 years ago. Although 4 of the past 5 SB winners had an elite TE in Gronk (3x) and Ertz without a premier RB or premiere WR. Point of that is all that matters is that you can score, there is no mandate for how to do it outside having a great QB. A TE can be a game changer, and most importantly, very valuable for a young, big arm QB like Josh Allen.

I know Peterson is covering Wideouts, thats my point. I don't really understand your point though. Here is what you just said to me: D is lower tier, 4th best pass defender (in terms of pass coverage like a LB, 4th corner, etc). A, B, and C are TE tiers from Elite, Good, Decent. C is better than D, so for you thats an acceptable enough advantage and all we need. However, B is an even greater advantage over D and therefore an even more effective result. A is substantially better than D creating constant exploited mismatches and very difficult to defend. You are acknowledging that a TE is already a mismatch for who is likely covering him. So instead of targeting a substantial mismatch and therefore a substantial offensive advantage, you are content with a modest to minimal one instead? The entire object of football is find and exploit opportunities, so if this is a clear place to gain a significant advantage, why settle for minor? In fact, TE is by far the easiest place to create such a wide advantage over any other position. Its not easy to find those TE's, but when you do they can be more difficult to guard than any other player on the field. A top WR is going to face the opponents best pass defender every game and also have safety and double team help. A RB can also be a nice mismatch, but they don't have the size a TE does to be that over the middle threat, that contested catch threat and that Redzone threat. All good man, but I just don't understand why you are saying a TE is seeing the 4th best defender most often and not wanting to exploit that to its fullest with high end player.

All good, I am just surprised he is labeled so slow when he was making lots of downfield catches and had some nice RAC too. For me, I don't really care if the TE is a speed burner, he is most often running in zones or beating LB's. I just want a guy with soft hands, who is a big target and can find the open spot. James is no lock to be "special", but I think he has some nice upside. And don't get me wrong, I love Hockenson and would prefer him over anyone. But if we are going to sign a FA TE, I do like James. Also said earlier, I would prefer Cameron Brate over James if he does become a cap cut or made available for a late round draft pick in trade.

Yeah, but aren't you actually making the point for a TE? I mean these guys are constantly exploiting matchups and zones. Not to mention their size to be big Redzone threats. Their value is high and even more so for a young QB who has a big target and safety net often. I mean watch the Chiefs, its unreal how many easy throws are there for Mahomes to make to Kelce, he is running wide open all over the place and is a big target to hit too. Doesn't matter if the TE can or cant beat Patrick Peterson in coverage because he is never covering him, or at least rarely (if ever). What matters is does the TE get open, who is covering them doesn't matter. And Olsen, Gronk, Kelce, Ertz, Kittle, etc are beating their defenders and are difference makers in those offenses. Given the rise of the TE the last few years, I am really surprised more people are seeing the value.

Most teams do not have the GOAT at QB and the GOAT at HC to overcome a big time offensive weapon missing time. Its a poor example. You also conveniently failed to mention that Brady had a pretty good TE to throw to whole Gronk missed those 11 games in Bennett. Bennett was second on that team in receiving with over 700 yards and also caught 7 TDs and all mostly while Gronk was hurt. So like I said, poor example.

I am little confused here. Where are people coming up with slow and plodding in this thread? Is it because of the first handful of catches on the highlight real at the beginning of this thread? Because if you are, then watch it again, he is making all kinds of downfield deep pays and beating cornerbacks. I do not see slow and plodding. Those first couple of highlights he kind of is jogging out into a soft part of a zone on short pass, but you can see him running down seems for deep gains all over the place and doing plenty of RAC. More important, I keep seeing some nice high pointing and big catch radius plays too. I think this kid would be a good addition. I don't want to do a Clay like over pay, but I think he has quite a bit of upside. And I am a guy who loves the idea of Hockenson, but James is a pretty intriguing prospect. I mean he is 6'-7" and as a #2 TE he had 30 rec and 423 yards for 14.1 YPC. How is that slow and plodding? Plus he has good hands. Among TE's with at least 30 catches, he was 5th in YPC only behind: OJ Howard, Mark Andrews, George Kittle and Gronk. For reference, Kelce was at 13 ypc and Ertz was 10 ypc.

Gronk, Kelce, and Ertz are not "4th options" though, in fact, they are primary options. They draw a lot more defensive attention than other TE's. Same with Greg Olsen.

They also went 11-5 without Brady with a QB who never started a football game since High School. So sorry, saying they went 11-0 without Gronk in no way devalues the TE position. BB is the GOAT for a reason.

They got a lot of key players to bring back that are more important and cant afford them all. Especially on their defense

Im a big fan of drafting TJ Hockenson. However, I am all good signing Jesse James too. The other TE I would really like to go get, and prefer him over Jesse James, is Cameron Brate. Talk is because of OJ Howard, he could be available via trade or maybe even be cap casualty at some point. Very good TE, and still young, just had a future beast in OJ now ahead of him and Bucs have lots of other needs. But Jesse James would be a good signing, just hope we don't over pay like we did for Charles Clay based on potential. I would also be good signing Maxx Williams too. Still would love to see us nab someone like Hockenson though in the draft who could be special.

All good and I know where you are coming from. Ive always been a fan of Sammy, and I have defended him plenty. However, Ive just reached the point where I cant excuse his lack of production anymore. His 2 year combined totals for catches and yards are less than Brandin Cooks put up this year alone for Rams after taking over Sammys role. Sammy: 25 Games started over 2 seasons (Rams then Chiefs). 79 Catches, 1112 yards. Brandin: 16 Games started, 1 season (Rams). 80 Catches 1204 yards. I mean I just cant defend his low production anymore, hes been in the league 5 years. He has talent, he has had some injuries. But he is not making the most of his talent even when healthy. The last dominant stretch of games he had was a 9 game run in 2015. We always blamed the QB, yet he has had Goff and Mahomes but still hasn't reached 600 yards despite one of those seasons he only missed 1 game. And yeah, he had over 100 yards (in a playoff loss) but it was on 4 catches (and took 8 targets). Is he capable of some big gains, sure. But 4 catches for 100 yards has been done countless times by lesser WR's. I want to see sustained production, something he has only achieved over a 9 game stretch one time 4 years ago. I will keep rooting for him, was a fan in college and was a fan since he was in the NFL...but I can no longer defend the lack of production. At $16M a year, you better be a major cog to your team, not the 4th option.

I would be good with this. https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2019/02/buffalo-bills-very-interested-in-free-agent-te-jesse-james-report.html

Yeah but he’s played in 16 games once in 5 years and that was as a rookie. So factoring in games he started but didn’t finish is fair to his per game assessment as it’s a relevant part of his on field work on a per game basis that he has appeared in. And why are you only trying to pick Chiefs games and not include his time with Rams when it was the most games he played in a single season since he was a rookie? Plus he saw his replacement Brandin Cooks more than double his production in the exact same role with exact same Rams team and offense. My stats were his average production per game started over the last 2 years. You both removed an entire of season or low production and also removed games he started but could not finish. And even with that stat manipulation help, the very best anyone can paint him is basically the same mediocre production as Stevie Johnson put up. Still not close to being worth $16m per season even then.

I have no issue that Bell is fighting for every dollar he can get. I have no issue it led to him sitting out last season, although I do think it was a mistake as he lost a year of playing and income that will be hard to make up given the amount of money he missed out on. I mean he only has a few years left to really make that money back, let alone exceed it. However, I think two things about this $50M over 2 years report: These kinds of stories are pretty unreliable. Reporters have no accountability when reporting on rumors, so any sniff of a rumor they put out because it gets interest and views, and thats their core of their job. You cant prove or disprove rumors, so they are what they are. Regardless of the info above being true or not, its pretty obvious Bell is going to go in asking for as much as he can, even if he knows he won't get it. Thats what negotiations are for. His side will start very high, the other side will start lower than they know he will sign for. Both know a deal will be done somewhere in between. So Bell isnt going to walk in and demand the min he will sign for. I do think its likely he is asking for a 2 year deal though so he can try and get one more payday on another 2 year deal just before he turns 30. I mean thats about the only way he can ever have a shot of making back all the money he lost last year. Obviously, Bells best chance at a huge payday is to have more than one team aggressively pursuing him where he can leverage interest higher and higher. Personally, I think he is going to land a 2 year deal around $12m with a big signing bonus. Front runners to me would be Jets, Colts, or Raiders. However, Colts found a run game last year, they may not want to spend so big on Bell now, but they certainly can afford to if they want. Raiders are so far off from contention that I doubt paying big money to a RB makes much difference, so not sure they will see the value of spending big on a RB the next 2 years. Especially since they lost Mack already over money. So I think Jets are most likely to pay up given they have a young QB in place where a weapon like Bell can really help a young QB both by taking pressure off in the run game and being a good receiving outlet. Bills could be a dark horse here too given the hit won't be as bad cap wise if we cut Shady.

Honestly know very little about him, he was just the top G in simulator at that point and there wasn't really anyone else I was familiar with enough to want on the board still at that point.

This is what I got on a 5 round mock I just did..no way this mock was close to realistic in general. For instance it had N'Keal Harry go in the 3rd round. Unless he runs a 4.57 or worse 40 just not happening. And seriously doubt Metcalf lasts until the 2nd round too. But, I LOVE this draft it would happen...which it won't. lol.

Missed the part of both Bells in a Bills uni...I would cry tears of joy. Admittedly, I have said I prefer to not spend so much on Bell, but if he was a Bill, I would be excited still. Not like I write the checks. Both of them would be incredible. However, my expectation of the odds of landing both is pretty close to 0% and I am still pretty sure neither come here. But I reserve the right to be ecstatic if the Killer B's are on this roster next season haha.

Wont be an easy climb back, but literally no risk here if we bring him in. He either comes in and is just too far from playing that we don't sign him. Or he at least looks like he is in fairly good shape or better, we sign him and if he just is too far gone he is a quick and easy cut. I would kick the tires, without question and see what tread is there. If enough tread, take it for a spin. If it drives good, buy it cheap.

I fully agree with all this. Not convinced Beane is going to go this route, mostly given this is a great WR draft, especially in depth, and Beane is a total build through the draft guy. Ive been saying Tomlin is over rated for a while, and other players have criticized how he manages the locker room, both current and past. Meanwhile, McD I feel has a great grasp on that locker room and total respect from players. So, I do think Beane won't be scared off as much by Brown in terms of locker room, but just not sure he wants to give up a high asset for a 31 year old WR on such a young team. And like I said, this is a WR rich draft, so that asset could bring in a valuable WR prospect that could be a one two punch with Allen for the next decade. Then again, with the defense already pretty good, he may want to expedite Allens growth by giving him a very talented weapon right now. So won't shock me to see us interested or even trade for him, I just still think its more likely they look at FA and Draft.

Here are a few recents: Eifert - Talent is there, cant blame the bad luck of injuries to diminish his actual value and talent when healthy. Picking a TE in the first is about talent, so we cant degrade the value of a first round TE because this specific one had a personal issue with injuries. Thats not "TE Specific" issue. Ebron - Underused in Detroit, but was still a very good TE for them and now Colts are showing what it means to use his talents. Cant diminish his talent and value because the Lions are a poorly run team who never can figure out how to use their assets correctly on offense. OJ Howard - This guy is poised to be a top 5 TE or better for the next 10 years. Greg Olsen - Another guy who was underused on bad teams (Bears), but was still good for them before going to Carolina where he was properly used and one of the best TE's in football. Honorable mention: Gronk was a first round projected TE who slipped due to other factors. Still a first round talent, and look at how important he has been. TE is not as featured of a position in College, so lots of talented TE's usually end their career with modest numbers which often leads to selections outside the first round. But when there are guys that are worth of first round, it doesn't devalue them just because others have come from other rounds. If a guy can really help your football team, you go get him. I would rather have a premier TE prospect, then try and find a hidden gem later. Look at how valuable Kelce was to Mahomes, or Olsen to Cam. Can really help a young QB and be a lethal weapon, especially since they are a hard cover if they are a dangerous receiver given the often mismatch in coverage.

Lots of banter here...but... In all honesty, I would absolutely bring this kid into camp. Will cost nothing, so there is no risk. Talent was never an issue, it was maturity. People grow, I mean my cousin was jackoff until his late 20's, now he is a celebrity chef, opened his own restaurant and won best restaurant in his county all 3 years its been open. Bring the kid in, see if he can spark some of that ability again and if he has matured. Worst case, he is a quick cut. Regarding his size, he was the RB version of Josh Allen...deceptively fast for his size. Big guy could really move and was also a good receiver out of the backfield too. I say bring him in, I mean there is no reason not to at this point. Not like our RB situation is superb, we got 2 guys on wrong side of 30, and the lead one McCoy dances too much and our run game was better with a bigger straight line guy anyway. At the very least, Karlos should push Ivory for his spot.

I think so too, although I still don't expect Beane to do it. However given the alleged interest in Hunt, shows me Beane both wants talent and believes in McD running this ship and controlling the news and locker room. So I won't rule it out, and I think a 2nd is the most realistic price tag. I think the only 2 teams that would trade a first are Raiders or Packers given they have extra picks. But honestly, Raiders don't really make sense, they are not a player away from being good over the next couple of years. Brown would be a wasted first round pick when they could use that to invest in youth on a depleted roster. But the time that roster turns the corner, Brown is going to be likely on the decline or close to it. If they are going to spend a first on Brown, they should have just kept Cooper who is a lot younger and cheaper and could be a building block where as Brown is more of a win over the next few years type player.

It said they needed emergency capital, not $250m in emergency capital. They needed some amount of capital urgently, but the exact amount that was urgent was not disclosed, only the total amount he put in.

I am with you preferring not to sign him, so get that and agree. However, I just was commenting on the negative picture of him as a person you were conveying with previous comments that aren't really fair. Fair to apply them to Brown given his off field issues and social media antics, but was just defending Bells character a bit as I thought it was getting misclassified with Browns unfairly. I actually don't think he will be much of a distraction if he was signed by Buffalo. Its a good spot for him, small market, good locker room, ascending team. But like you said I don't really want to pay him what he will fetch either. But like I said, if Beane surprised and signed him, I would be pretty excited because he is an excellent player. I mean its not like I have to pay his salary hehe