Alphadawg7

He's only been in the league 3 years, he's not old.

Name one thing (honestly) that Zay excels at. Just one. HINT: You can't. He doesnt run crisp routes, doesnt get separation consistently, doesnt catch the ball clean or consistently, doesnt make contested catches, doesnt have elite speed. Yeah, I get that, and why I had high hopes for Zay. Hoped he could be that reliable #2 type receiver with great hands. But plenty of people did things in college they couldn't replicate in the NFL against stronger competition. Zay REALLY struggles getting off the line clean and hitting his route crisp, and I think thats a big part of the problem with his drops. Um who did that? Far as I can see almost the entire board was against both guys. Lets not over exaggerate the 5 TD's. 4 of them came against the lowly Dolphins. I mean thats literally 45% of his career TD production in 30 games. Why do people, and I do see you do it a lot, label someone getting "hate" if their play is fairly criticized? His stats are below pedestrian, he has tons of drops, we have lost multiple games because of his drops, he's never had a 100 yard game in 30 games despite being a starter most the time, he's had 22 games out of 30 possible with less than 40 yards. Sorry, its MORE than fair to question his role here based on what he has put on tape and his off season issue. Serious chemistry? I think Foster has a bigger claim to that than Zay. Zay has zero career 100 yard games, Foster had 3 of them over the second half the season.

I think it will be either Metcalf of someone on the DL.

Funny thing is if anyone just watches the games, this was already very very obvious. There is some weird myth around here that McD is conservative and wants to ground and pound. Literally never been any truth to that and the evidence is left all over the field every Sunday. Some people saw what McD had to do when Allen was hurt and DA and NP were stinking the place up and somehow projected that into McD's overall philosophy. Never understood that.

Not to mention he's a guy who in 30 career games had less than 40 yards receiving in 22 of them. And that includes being a 16 game starter in 2018 where in 10 games he failed to reach 40 yards. For comparison, Robert Foster, an UDFA rookie who was cut came back for 7 game: Zay Jones: 30 Career Games, over almost all of which he was a starter Rober Foster: 7 games after being brought back of which he started or played big minutes 100 yard games: Zay = Zero out of 30 (literally 0% rate) Foster = 3 out of 7 (43% of his games) Under 40 yard games: Zay = 22 out 30 (73% of his games) Foster = 2 out of 7 (29% of his games) Touchdowns per game: Zay = 9 total, 0.3 per game (keep in mind almost half of his career TD's came playing woeful Miami twice this year) Foster = 3 total, 0.43 per game For a high 2nd round pick, he was quickly surpassed by a guy who was cut after being a UDFA rookie that had below average college production. So whats going to happen if we draft a couple high quality rookie prospects this year or draft one and sign/trade for an established vet? Lets not forget Duke being a real threat either. Dismissing Duke because he played in the CFL is foolish as he isnt the typical CFL story.

But what if we could for a day 3 pick? Would be an upgrade over Ivory at the very least, but also a quality starter if McCoy doesn’t rebound this year

I wouldn’t hate this, but wouldn’t be that excited either.

Bears reportedly shopping Jordan Howard. Any interest? I’d like to see what they want for him, he’s been pretty productive over his first 3 years and can catch too. I wouldn’t trade a high pick given the depth of the RBs in the draft, but if we could get him for a day 3 pick, I think it’s worth looking into.

Yup, that was a pretty silly delegation he made that he had to be juicing and would 100% test positive for it.

Aw shucks *blushing* thanks You can send my prize money to my Venmo

Dont blame you...PPP is a dark place ha

Diddly squat? Guess you missed all the indictments of the people who worked for Trump, his campaign, and administration. My favorite part of this whole ordeal is most of his "base" hated him when he was a reality TV deuche. Now that this deuche is the political head of their political party, people want to pretend his life time of being a scum bag didn't really happen and he is some saint. He was a monster and a fraud before politics, he's been worse sense being in politics. Most of the "supporters" knew what a POS he was before he became a political figure, but defend him now as if he is not just because he is now hoaxing being a Republican.

More from McD: “At the end of the day I’m looking for a guy that can affect a defense, from a matchup standpoint, and a guy that people have to be mindful of,” McDermott said. “Other than that I want them to get open, catch the ball and put the ball down - and then come back and do it again.” Hmmmmm...how many of these traits are strengths of Zay that McD wants from his WR's? Affect a defense from a matchup standpoint: Nope A guy that people have to be mindful of: Nope Gets open: Nope Catch the ball: Nope Come back and do it again (consistency): Nope Prove me wrong Zay, but right now you don't come to mind when I hear our coaches and GM talk about what they want in a WR.

And that’s also why I’m hard on Zay actually too. Zay does most of his limited production on those sand lot plays when Allen is buying time with his legs. If our WRs won their routes more and got open, Allen wouldn’t have to use his legs so much to buy more time. Allen is a skilled runner, but he wants to throw it first.

Exactly. I kept saying this at the draft too, he's a mid round pick at best who had an Elite WR make his stats look good. Fun to watch in college, but so were a lot of guys who had no NFL futures.

True, really comes down to how much a team will covet Murray or Haskins if both are on board at 3. One note on the Raiders though, Mayock their GM has been running around the combine talking up Carr saying he truly believes he's a franchise QB. So they may not be a real player at QB come draft time (although things can certainly change along the way). Best case scenario for Jets is if AZ decides to take Murray #1 making Haskins value in terms of draft slot go way up. AZ just added more fire to the fact they may take Murray #1 stating that Rosen "is their QB right now" That statement doesn't exactly ring as a commitment to Rosen and now its fueling more speculation that Murray is in play still at #1 for them.

Its been long over. He sucked in NFL and CFL. He will suck everywhere, he is not a good QB. What money he has he owes big thanks to Mike Evans for making him look draftable.

I think you are asking the wrong question. This isn't a typical CFL story where a guy had to go there because he needed to prove he can play. Talent was never the issue with Duke, it was his own actions that led to him not having the opportunity to play yet in the NFL. I think the more accurate questions is at what rate do players with early troubles mature to reach their potential. And there are a lot of success stories, including HOF WR Cris Carter. People are underestimating his talent level based on comments I have seen in various threads mostly because of the fact he played in the "CFL". But this guy is more talented than people realize and I think he will not only make the roster, but could win a starting spot...hopefully opposite DK Metcalf ?

Yeah, if we were at #3 I would be very interested in trading back too. Question is will they get an offer as the #3 pick will be pricey, so is there a guy someone wants bad enough there to pay the cost to get the #3 pick.

Honestly, I almost added that to my OP. Its not crazy either, as Zay could be a better fit for the slot role there with Daltons more average arm and Ross could be of more interest to the Bills for Allens deep ball. I don't think its crazy to propose, however, I think the Bengals would be more interested in draft picks than another WR given they have 2 other very good WR's already.

I get your point and understand where you are coming from...BUT: You don't keep a guy because of a stat sheet comparison or analysis either. You keep a guy because he is better than the next guy on your roster. Is the third year pivotal historically for WR's...yes and no. They have studied it and its a bit true and a bit over stated too. However, what common factor though is that after 2 years, usually you can point at a WR and identify something he is actually good at while also identifying where he needs to improve to take the next step. Right now, there isnt any particular thing anyone can say that Zay is good at. He needs to literally improve every aspect of his game, including Hands, Routes, Separation, etc. Can he do it, we will see...but thats a tall ask when facing a produce now or else moment like he will be when they add even more new faces to the room to go along with the competition he will already face with Foster and Duke.

This is exactly where my gut feeling comes from. They will make what they feel is the best decision for the team, not make decisions over concern of looking like they made a mistake. And really, its not a "they" in regards to Zay since Beane wasn't even here yet. I hope Zay gets there, nothing personal against him. My thing is that when you have a young WR you can usually point to things they do really well and things they need to improve on to get to the next level. I cant point to anything today that I could honestly say Zay does really well. I hope he reads this and goes out and proves me wrong, but its been 2 years and I am still searching for something I can say he does really well. No worries, and I understand. The difference here is, we are going to rebuild our whole WR room. Normally you got a young guy and some established quality WR's or better on the team allowing you to be more patient.

No issue with your post, but I just don't know I see the inspiration for the "big games" comment. In 30 career games: He has never had a 100 yard game. He has also broken 70 yards just twice. He has had under 40 yards in 22 of his career 30 games (including 10 times in 2018 as a 16 game starter). He's only had more than 6 catches in a game once. He has only had more than 5 catches in a game 5 times. 9 career TD's isn't terrible, however 4 of them (almost half) came in both games against the lowly Dolphins this year. So not really seeing the big game potential from him. And he hasn't really shown the ability to make plays. He has lost us games because of his inability to make the play and also bobbled some other important catches that should have been routine. He can still keep getting better, and I will root for him too. My bold prediction is not about not liking him, its rooted in believing that Beane is adding at least 2 more WRs after already adding Duke. And if Zay isn't finding a way to separate himself and looking at being in a limited role in 2019, I think Beane will trade him before that limited role diminishes his value further.

Wait, so Shefters opinion of what he remembers from something that happened 19 years ago is now the smoking gun that proves something that literal science failed to prove for 19 years?