Alphadawg7

This is what did us in the first game - LITERALLY beating ourselves. McD doesn't throw a challenge flag on an obvious play to challenge that would have forced a punt and saved a TD Cooks drops a wide open dime to put us in scoring position Allen has 3 wide open guys on 3rd down and sails one a mile over one of their heads to punt. Why this team so often starts poorly on both sides of the ball like this I will never understand.

We have to be the worst team on challenges in the NFL. We challenge obvious ones we shouldn’t then don’t challenge obvious ones we should. Geezus

Again, I will ask the original question. What WR did they miss on since they trade Diggs? Coleman and every outside WR1 drafted all have busted. The other poster brought up a 5th round WR in a year where we were on the first year a huge extension for Diggs who was still in his twenties and a top 5 WR in the NFL. This notion they can't evaluate is pretty wild given they have not invested a lot of premium assets in the position becasue they had Diggs. They found Shakir and Davis on day 3 who exceeded their draft slots by far. The only other relevant investment was Coleman, yet no other WR taken when we could have taken one has really done more than Coleman, they have all been busts. The only example is Ladd whose natural position is the slot and that was the one position we already had. We needed an outside WR and we needed size. So using hindsight to flame them for not taking a guy that the people complaining also were NOT campaigning for on draft night is pretty silly. Everyone wanted Legette, Franklin, Adonai, Worthy, etc. All have been busts. Even the guys people wanted later have done less than Keon. First 2 seasons with Beane was clearing out cap, clearing out bad contracts, bad players, bad fits. Once they had the QB in place, they started looking to build around him and went and got Diggs who was a top 5 WR his tenure here. They supported him with other quality WR's like Cole, Sanders, Brown, Gabe in those prime Diggs years and then drafted for the future with Shakir as Cole was getting older and on his way out (and hit on that). Then they extended Diggs to finish his career here while he was still in his 20's. That relationship ended earlier than intended and conincidentally in a season where they were not going to over pay to keep Davis either. That left them having to rebuild the whole room outside Shakir in one season, and a season they had a $31M dead money cap hit at the position too, really leaving them only the draft to address it. Then on top of that, we aged out a lot of veteran leadership as well, so the whole draft became the first mini retool since Allen arrived as we had to address a lot of positions. And despite all that, the offense went out and put up the single greatest offensive season in Bills history and one that was historically good. That same offense averaged 29 PPG over 3 games in the playoffs against 3 of the best defenses in the AFC last year and Josh got his first MVP. All that being said - as I previous mentioned - my mindset is everyone should be fired if we don't win a SB this year. At some point you need to just make a change. So I am not here to say they are perfect or need to say. But this ranting without context that goes on daily here just gets so old. Especially when all those people wanted other players who were also busts or they want to play the hindsight game and make a big deal about a 5th round WR when we had a top 5 WR who just signed a large extension to retire here.

The amount of over the top nonsense you insist on posting to manipulate your bias is unreal. He has FIVE career catches, and 1 was 72 yards skewing his YPC. And for a team that has bigger WR needs than we do with an MVP candidate QB...he has FIVE catches. You make it so hard to have a real conversation with this kind of stuff

No its not. He can say whatever reason he wants to not go to Buffalo or where ever. It is HIS RIGHT to want to play for someone or not want to play for someone. He KNEW another team COULD claim him and he made the choice to GAMBLE on getting through waivers and get a chance to sign back to Philly, or see another team claim him where he was more interested in retiring than starting over some where. All he did was ask Pitt for his release so he could SEE if he got through waivers. When he didn't, the interest just wasnt there to go play here. That is also his right to choose to play or retire when he learns where his rights end up.

Then you need to rip the other 32 GMs, including Rams, for passing on him many times on his way to falling from what should have been an easy top 5 pick to 5th round.

Diggs was still a Bill in that draft and no one had any idea Puka was gonna be what he is. If they did he wouldn’t have lasted as long as he did making all 32 GMs, even the rams, look like fools for not taking him sooner And what has Kyle Williams done?

There are no dots to connect. He wanted to play in Philly or retire. He took his chances on waivers knowing someone else could claim him and that’s that. This isn’t complicated of some conspiracy How did he bypass it? Bills have his right and he’s not an Eagle

Slay can do whatever he wants. He knew that any team could claim him on waivers when he asked for his release from the Steelers just like he knew that if he cleared waivers he could go to Philly. He decided to flip that coin hoping his age and down year would maybe allow him to slip through waivers. And it didn't so he was prepared to retire rather than report if that happened. That is his full right as a player to do that. If you want to mad at someone, be mad at the system. But if you change the system then you allow players to manipulate it by informing teams not to claim him or he will retire rather than report so he can clear and go where he wants. I mean every player would say that so they could pick their next destination if they know they have options. So it has to be this way - every team KNOWS this when they claim a player. For Slay, his preference was finish the season out in Philly or just retire rather than stay in Pitt or go someplace else late in the season. People need to get over it. One thing I would say though is that the NFL needs to change the rules to where the team can get back their player if the claimed player refuses to report in the first 24 hours. So Ingram should have to wait 24 hours before his official release to first confirm the claimed player is reporting. And if that player chooses NOT to report, then the team keeps the player they were going to release AND also still holds the RIGHTS to the claimed player. And if that player later decides to report, the team then has 24 hours to either accept them onto the roster and then release someone, or waive the rights and player all together officially making them a FA if the team no longer wants them. That should be the rule and NONE of this would ever happen.

Diggs wasn't toxic either, until the end. He was a top 3 WR in the NFL, Waddle will never at any point in his career now, the past, or future be considered a top 5 WR in the NFL. They are not in the same class. He is a good WR, and I would have been happy to add him and he would be our best WR on the roster, especially down field. But he is not, never has been, and never will be better than Diggs in his prime. We had Diggs, he was not only our WR1, but one of the best in the entire NFL. His tenure ended here EARLIER than it was supposed to, 1 year into a big extension. We had 2 off seasons to replace him, and what legit WR1 was available during that span in the draft? None. What legit WR1 was available in FA? None. What legit WR1 was available via trade - DK and Pickens, but DK is not a great WR1 and limited, and he is way way over paid. Pickens had more drama issues than Diggs and his team dumped him too, and he had never played at the level he is playing at now in Dallas before. So hindsight is at play there, he was off most teams radars for all the same reasons the Steelers dumped him. But you want to point to guys who never got traded and say thats the guy. Waddle wasn't traded, no one was willing to pay even what we were offering for Waddle, but you want to claim he was better than Diggs? And you want to be mad that we didn't over pay. The thing that irks me is all this pissing and moaning some of you do on this subject while refusing to look at the facts that this magical Diggs replacement was never at any point really there while also ignoring Beane has tried to get one like he again did this trade deadline yet NONE of the guys he went after ever got traded in the first place (Wilson, BTJ, Olave, and Waddle). Dont get me wrong - my thought is that the entire staff and FO are fired right now and they have 1 shot to get their jobs back and that is win the SB. If they don't I am on board we need to try something different. But that also doesn't mean all this baseless ranting about not having another top 5 WR to replace Diggs yet is because we refused to do it when there has literally not been someone there outside overpaying for a a couple of WR2 guys or gambling on what was a total kncuklehead to replace our own knucklehead, which was never going to happen.

What rules did he violate? He was released, doesn't want to play for the team who picked him up, so he is not. No rules violated But that is the risk you take when you claim a guy off waivers. Same risk any one takes. When the guy is on waivers, there is a reason. It is not Slay's fault at 34 he doesn't want to start over mid season some place he doesn't know when he neither needs the money or the ring.

Not only is Waddle not as talented as Diggs, but this offensive is nothing like Dabolls, no WR under Brady here is going to dominate touches the way Diggs did during his reign here to the same degree. So no disrespect, but Waddle wasn't going to put up the same numbers nor more.

LMAO - He is not near Diggs prime level, geezus thats so over the top. Diggs was a legit top 3 WR for his first few years here. Waddle is a WR2 not even a WR1. He would have been by the best WR on this team no doubt right now, and he would have helped this group. BUT this is just over the top to claim he is better than Diggs was. Literally no one in the NFL would say that either. And his value is not as high as Diggs was either.

We were the highest bidder on Waddle - and I don't know that I would call Waddle a legit WR1. He is best suited to be a WR2. And all you are going off of is what is reported in the media, most of which isn't BS and inaccurate anyway. Now I would have given up 2 firsts to get Wilson from the Jets personally, he is a bonafide stud WR1.

Wait - this thread still continues without any new news on it? Lol I mean this story really isn't even a big deal. These guys take a beating to play this game and more so as their bodies age. At 34, rich, successful, with a ring the motivation to play has to come from somewhere. So moving to a team midseason where you don't know the playbook, aren't familiar with the defense, have no connections, etc may not be worth everything he has to put in to play at a level he expects of himself. No surprise at all that he would really only want to go some place familiar or retire. So who really cares about this. If I was in his shoes I would probably feel the same way to be honest. To be away from his family too, man you need to really want to do this still and be some place that you want to be at this stage in his career.

There really hasn't been an opportunity to acquire a legit #1 WR since he was traded. None were available to us in the draft, and the only real ones that got traded were DK - who is grossly overpaid and would have been a bad contract and deal, and Pickens, who had more locker room and attitude issues with Steelers than Diggs had here. So much so, that despite having no one to replace Pickens they traded him. Then this trade deadline Beane went after some legit guys but none of them got traded at all.

I will add his effort has looked like this in non-snow games too. It wasn't unique to this game, albeit, this game it stood out a lot more. But the scramble drill thing should be where he excels with Allen and you can see on the tape the effort just isn't there. He looks like he is just watching to see what happens and doesn't seem to really react unless he sees Josh look at him or something but then its too late. The moment he sees Josh scrambling he needs to be working his way back into his vision and find a soft spot in the defense to get the ball. But he kind of stands there or slows from a run to a trot at end or top of his route while just seeing what happens. Its unacceptable effort and I think its a big part of what got him benched.

And that is certainly the risk with him. What happens if CeeDee dominates the touches, I am not convinced he will be the merry player he is trying to present himself to be right now either.

Its funny watching all these people rant about Keon being a bust when most of them were on their soap boxes on draft night screaming to draft someone else who is also a bust so far between Worthy, Legette, Adonai, Franklin, etc. Very few people were saying we should take Ladd, I know because I had him as WR5 behind BTJ and people kept arguing with me that it was one of those other guys. But, I never thought we would take Ladd with his natural position being the slot and that literally being the only WR position we had filled up. I was terrified Ladd was going to go to the Chiefs at end of the round, and pretty much expected it to be honest. But they moved up for Worthy and I was relieved it wasn't Ladd as I thought it was going to be Ladd when the trade was announced. Looking at the draft, the guy I thought they might take over a WR when we were on the clock, Cooper DeJean, is who we should have taken. I loved Cooper, and I figured our FO and Coaches would love Cooper with his versatility, so I legit thought he could be the pick at the top of the 2nd then go WR after. But I still figured WR was slightly more likely given the loss of our top 2 WR's in one offseason. And honestly, I would have gone WR too just given the need and having Allen. But man, Cooper looked so tempting sitting there and I have a redo, that is my pick, not Ladd.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, however, Coleman didn't have character concerns coming out, in fact, it was one of the things people loved about him. Everything about him seemed to show the drive to be great. So hard to pin that on the FO, I mean every year guys get drafted who don't have known character issues in college where their mental toughness in that way hadn't really been tested or had a chance to show. Unless they have gone through it already, it is really difficult to know is how they will react when not getting what they expect, not having the role they envision, etc when they may not have faced similar situations in college. I think Colemans big issue is he is passionate and emotional and he wears those emotions on his sleeve. And that can be a great thing or it can be an anchor on their career. Look at Pickens, he had similar issues in Pitt to what Coleman has IMO on the character and personality side of things. For the Steelers, they got rid of Pickens (despite the desperate need at WR) because of how poor his effort was when not getting the ball, the locker room and off field issues that plagued him when he was sulking about his role. It affected his play, his energy, his effort, etc. because he felt he should be a bigger part of the offense, he should be getting more targets, etc. Pickens himself said he was very immature and had to grow up in that category, and now look at what he is doing in Dallas. Of course its EASY for Pickens to say the right things now with him getting the ball so much which is what he wanted, so we don't know if he will revert back to his old ways if say his role diminishes there again. But right now, hes out there playing balls to the wall because he is getting rewarded on the field for it, and will be getting rewarded in his bank account now too over it. Coleman seems to be seriously struggling with his role right now, and I think his immaturity and emotions are impacting his consistent effort and play as a result. The tape doesn't lie, how he was playing end of that Ravens game is not the same film he is putting down right now, not even close. I am NOT making excuses for him, he needs to get past this crap or we need to move on, plain and simple. The potential to be a good football player IMHO is there for him still, but he hasn't learned how to be a pro yet. And if he doesn't figure that out fast, I think his train is on the fast track to derailing in Buffalo and will be gone this offseason.

And dont forget, to start the season, Worthy was their number 1 WR for the first 6 weeks too lol

You can’t come on here defending your team as a fan and then call out others for their own loyalties and thoughts on their own teams. For example, anyone watching the first Pats vs Bills game knows that the Bills beat themselves a lot more than the Pats beat the Bills. I mean we lost to the Flacons for same reasons, and no one believes Falcons are better than Bills. Now you also have a Bills team full of critical injuries all year. Substantially worse than the Pats have gone through as well. The poster you are mocking for saying even if we drop a game again this week while still hurt and missing key players, he still thinks we have the advantage in the playoffs if we are healthy. Why can’t he believe that? Bills have proven to be a dominant team when healthy, Pats haven’t really been dominant and have also seen their record benefit from a relatively easy schedule. Pats are good and they are well coached and capitalized on Buffalo slipping up against lesser teams multiple times this year to take a cushy lead in the division. But come playoff time, which team has all the post season experience? Which team has the NFL MVP who has many all time NFL post season QB records already at only 30? I mean, come on, you are talking about Mayes first post season, only his 2nd season, and a roster that isn’t as talented overall when everyone on both sides is at full health. Pats are an up and coming team, but they are not battle tested in the post season yet, especially at QB. And their record is inflated with the ease of schedule, which doesn’t mean a lot other than whose stadium the game is in come playoff team. Everyone is 0-0 entering the playoffs. There is a reason it’s know as the 2nd season or the real season. I actually think Houston and that defense are a worse matchup for anyone in the AFC than the Pats who have the better record.

It was unreal throw and an incredible catch by Shakir too

I honestly don’t know but if I had to guess I would say probably not intentionally. I think he’s one of those people whose emotions show up in their work, wear them on his sleeve kind of guy. So if he is frustrated, down, disappointed, etc then it tends to show up on his tape and the field. That’s just me speculating though, just my opinion based on what we have seen thus far.

Someone I know who has been plugged in before told me barring some sort of abrupt change or breakout to expect the Bills to trade Keon this offseason. From the outside looking in, that obviously seems like a very plausible scenario regardless of what anyone hears. But he has been hearing this going back to before the healthy scratch game that the Bills are not seeing what they expect out of him and without a big turnaround are looking to move on. My personal opinion on what is going on with him is a combo of his offseason praise and hype from teammates, coaches and FO combined with his big 4th quarter game week 1 set a level of expectations of what he just expected his role and season would look like this year. And when he isn't seeing that, his motivation, effort, and focus diminish as he isn't happy with his role and wants to be a bigger part of the offensive game plan. And honestly, we saw it last year too after he got back from injury and his role wasn't the same between the offense rolling while he was out and Cooper taking snaps too. He looked like a different guy completely before injury that had him on a 1000 yard season pace the 5 games prior to injury. But when he came back, he wasn't close to the same player even though the type of injury he had wasn't one to linger or keep affecting his play. Poor effort, motivation, and/or focus is one of the fastest ways to get yourself cut or traded in the NFL, specially with this regime. Someone needs to get to Keon to help get his head on straight and fast or I can't see him on this team next year.