Alphadawg7

Wait...we don't have some budding star at backup QB behind our elite QB? Fire Beane.

And to be clear, I have no issue with your specific stance even though our opinions on the upside of Keon and Shakir differ where I see a higher ceiling than you do. It is totally fair to be on either side of that fence right given it is as you say "unproven". Where my point comes from is the degree a lot of other people push that "unproven" aspect to a level that also implies "improbable" with the posters who wade much deeper than you in negative side of the swimming pool. But here is the one thing I do definitely disagree with what you are saying, at least in your language being used in the bolded above. On one hand you talk about how they are "unproven", which is true and means both they have not proven one way or the other what their capabilities are yet given youth and circumstance between Keon (rookie), Shakir (ascending after a breakout), and Samuel (in his prime, never had a credible QB yet though). But in this bolded, you also state they are one of the worst groups in the league "on paper" and "entering the season"...which I won't even argue given it is fair for you to say with so many changes and things yet to be seen. However, the issue I have is that you follow that by then stating it is all on "Josh and Brady to make due with they have" which sounds a lot like saying them needing to make Chicken Salad out of Chicken S**t. And that kind of language closes the door on this "unproven" group actually proving your "one of the worst groups on paper" grading inaccurate or wrong. I am not saying that you even believe that or not...I am saying your use of language there doesn't imply there is room for them to outperform your "on paper" opinion wrong and that the success will be solely on Allen and Brady to overcome this group.

Lol, my track record on receivers is pretty stellar around here, so I am more than confident in the things I said even though you are absolutely blurring what I actually said in this sarcastic comment to be different than what I really stated in all of the above.

Let me first clarify that this comment I am about to make isn't solely at you, just replying to you since yours is a recent comment. But this is more a general response to what is said a lot around here by numerous people who are less optimistic, skeptical or flat out have a very negative view on this group ahead of the season. There are two things that have been beaten to death and are being made more of than they really are, and in some cases being over exaggerated. First: Way too much is being made of this "unproven" aspect as if it implies "improbable". Is it true to say its "unproven" like in the context you just used...yes. Did you over exaggerate it...NO, but you do say it a lot. But others shout this from the mountain top as if "unproven" also equates to "improbable" and they know who they are. And that is where IMHO it is being way over stated and over exaggerated. If our top of the chart weapons were made up of guys like MVS and Hollins...sure, I would say the "unproven" aspect of them being one of the primary or even the top primary target is a significant concern because they are more established in who they are. But we are talking about a TE that as a rookie was 4th and 10th in NFL history for rookie TE's in catches and yards. A WR in Shakir who just led the team in receiving the final 10 games over Diggs with just 38 targets to Diggs 80 targets over that span while also leading all WRs in the NFL in Catch % and one of the best YPT last year. And a rookie in Keon, where I get people are split, including you who doubts his ability to be a WR1 in the NFL, who despite all that has legitimate WR1 upside and everything coming out on him right now has been over whelmingly great. From on field performance, to work ethic, football IQ, commitment, and running 100% exclusively with the 1's. And Samuel has never had a legit starting QB in his career either and entering his prime now. Optimism that one of them, or more than one of them, can continue to ascend and form a strong top of the chart group is a very legitimate possibility and not at all as improbable or daunting through constant repeating as some make it sound. Second thing is: Too much is being made about their not being a "Diggs" on the other side of the field. Yes, there are advantages and benefits to there being a guy who consistently gets extra attention, but to the degree its being discussed is way over the top in this thread. If you read some of the posts here you would think its impossible for any offense or receivers to have success or play well without a top 5 WR on the field to draw attention. Not to mention, we already have an Elite player that garners extra attention still in Allen who absolutely teams need to spy. And furthermore, to assume no teams are going to have to cheat attention during games towards any of our weapons is just naive, there will be guys on this team still getting doubled or defenses selling out to stop on a certain play and to think it won't happen without Diggs is just not realistic.

I would take Keon long term over Mooney 100% of the time. And honestly by the time week 1 gets here and Keon has a full camp and preseason complete, I’m probably taking Keon week 1 too over Mooney unless Keon ends up struggling during camp and preseason, which so far it’s nothing but stellar reports coming out. But that is also because I am optimistic on Keon and also know Mooney is not a WR1, at least not a good one. Keon I firmly believe will be a WR1 and will be ready to start his ascension come week 1.

No, I don’t think so at all…he isn’t going to be over Keon who has taken all snaps with the 1’s and I seriously doubt he is going to be ahead of Samuel coming into camp who Brady wanted and has experience with. If they valued him over Samuel they would have signed him.

That is just your opinion, and one I definitely do not share. If I am an NFL GM and I have to choose between Mooney and Kincaid, I’m taking Kincaid. Shakir and Mooney…I am taking Shakir. Keon and Mooney…I am taking the upside of Keon. I get you don’t believe in those 3 players to the same degree, but I would bet money that Beane wouldnt swap any of those 3 for Mooney. And I’m not even saying Mooney is a bad player, just saying to say he would be our “best” and “our instant WR1” over all 3 of those guys is over the top and quite exaggerative given Keon hasn’t even started a game, Kincaid is just entering his 2nd year, and Shakir is coming off a year 2 breakout as he gets ready to start his 3rd as a major part of the offense.

It’s pointless to argue talent between two players based on yardage totals when targets are drastically different. Both Mooney and Samuel had been saddled most of their career with poor QB situations. Debating whose was worse is a pointless exercise like arguing over whose dogs poop smells worse. Samuel IMO was the better signing for our team both in fit, history (Brady connection), and contract (based on our cap issues this year). Arguing which player is the “better” player before seeing either play with a credible QB is going to accomplish nothing until we see them play with real QBs.

This is why I was telling people yesterday not to sleep on Hollins when some saw that MVS got some run with the 1’s. Both Allen and the coaches love Hollins and he is not only a credible receiver, but he does all the dirty work too like blocking and going all out every play. It’s also why I said Hollins is directly in Claypools way, so if Claypool wants to climb the depth chart he first has to find a way to get ahead of Hollins…which won’t be easy.

You want to see them both have their moments. It’s good to see the D adjust and make some plays and the offense do the same. If one side dominates all camp it generally means the other side may have some issues

It’s amazing to me that the hard core naysayers don’t even understand the kind of potential Brady has with variations and creative designs with this unique and diverse group of size and skill sets.

Agree with all this...although I wouldn't go so far as say "highly" unlikely he starts Day 1. I agree the odds favor him starting the season as a backup or in specific packages, but I don't think the guys ahead of him are good enough to where he has little chance to over take them come week 1.

But I heard here he can't catch, has short arms, and is just a role player 😂

I think people are jumping to conclusions and assumptions too much off McD's comment. I think it was just a general comment pertaining to rookies more than anything. Nothing he said struck me as if he was saying that Bishop has been out of shape at any point. Could just be that Bishop maybe wasn't around the facility as much and maybe training else where and more that McD didn't know where he was at yet until he gets out there. Nothing about Bishop at any point strikes me as someone who is out of shape or would come in out of shape, so just IMO feel this comment is being made to likely be more than it is. But who knows, just the way it came across to me is all

Probably because he rents instead of owns

Meh...these happen all the time

I think this is why no one should get to up or down on anything early in camp. Lost in all the obsession of talking about the people catching passes is the fact that we are looking at a massive overhaul in our secondary this year and it will take time for them to adjust and gel. 3 of our opening day starters are gone from last year in Hyde, Poyer, and Tre...all of which were very good players for this defense both in skill and leadership. So not a surprise to see the offense eat on day 1 with a secondary whose only returning week 1 starter from last year is coming off an injury and isn't even a lock to start as he battles Elam who had a strong OTA's so will be given the chance to compete. Today was the offenses day...and there will be days it belongs to the defense like we saw in the OTA's. But...I will say how thin overall we are in the secondary is still a big concern of mine, more so at CB than anything where we don't have much behind our projected top 3 guys.

I agree that SVPG opening the season as the starter, while possible, is unlikely. McD tends to not rush rookies along when there are guys ahead of him who can start, so barring injury or a drastic issue on the interior OL rearing its head during preseason, odds are that SVPG will start the season off as a backup. However, I fully believe they love SVPG's potential and drafted him because they feel he has the potential to compete to be the future at the C position here long term. Like when they drafted Shakir to be the future of the slot position but also brought back McKenzie and Crawford so they wouldn't have to lean on a rookier early. And C is a key position with the QB at the LOS, so not having to lean on a rookie there I am sure definitely Plan A.

Guess what you won't see...any of the usual suspects here in the training camp thread liking or commenting on any of the positive news today. It is day 1, nothing will be proven or disproven with any single day of camp/practice/preseason. But to not even as a fan take in some enjoyment from seeing a positive start is the same thing they do all season long where they barely post, if at all, in a week with a big win and then all over the board flaming everything and everyone in a week with a loss. If the news today was bad, they would be ALL OVER that negative stuff in here and they know it. Whether true or not, it just comes across as an insistence on being right about their negative bias than actually really wanting to see the team/players prove them wrong. Nothing wrong with with having a negative opinion or view on any Bills topic...but maybe now that camp is open they should just put the bias and agenda in the background and smile and enjoy the good stuff when it happens too 👍

I wouldn't overlook Hollins...not only is he a credible receiver, but he brings very good blocking to the table, which is something we lost with Davis. If MVS is in that fourth spot per se, he might see more targets, but he also may see his snaps divided more with Hollins for his blocking abilities. This is why I think people are really hoping to see Claypool shine because he can bring the most to the table as a receiver and has the size and strength to also be a physical blocker. But, he clearly is coming in behind MVS and Hollins, and right fully so given he has a lot to prove and was a late addition to the team as well.

I don't know what got more beaten to death this offseason...peoples false interpretation of his speed or this mistaken notion he is just a "contested catch" type WR, which is the naysayers way of saying he is too slow to be anything else. That is a total mischaracterization of him, and it has never been about "contested catches" with Keon and that completely ignores the actual elite traits Keon brings to the table. What it is really about is CATCH RADIUS. People constantly confuse contested catches with this, they are not the same thing. Keon brings elite traits to the table of size, athleticism, body control, and hands. This isn't about giving Allen a guy who he just throws jump balls too, it gives Allen large windows of where he can put the ball out of harms way where only Keon can get to it and can make the play. This play above is exactly that, this isn't a jump ball, this is a play being made by a guy with exceptional body control to where he can get around to make the catch while keeping his feet in bounds. And the sooner people realize to not keep focusing on this false notion is just this slow guy who is only here for 50/50 balls the sooner they realize what his real potential is and how it can help Allen.

It’s early, but encouraging way to open camp especially since in past years the offense typically started slower than the defense. While it was great to see all the great tweets about the people catching passes from WR’s, TE’s and RB’s…it’s early and no pads. What I really loved coming out today was all the stuff about Brady’s offense and what it looked like. It’s exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to see. Again, it’s early and no pads, but the routes, designs, movement, etc that was being tweeted about was encouraging.

I had him as my 3rd best RB in the draft, loved landing him and can’t wait to see him in live game action in this offense

Except it’s not. You don’t know, you think. There is a massive difference. Stop selling your guesses as a fact. Brady may flame out…or he may head the best offense in the league. You dont have a clue, just your biased opinion because we didn’t draft the WR you wanted or trade for the WR you wanted so your guess is that we are doomed. But you literally have no idea how well or poor Brady will do this year, just like the rest of us. PS: You also just compared Brady, an OC, to mostly head coaches.

Have you ever not been hostile in a post before on here? Your objective in every post with everyone is to be as hostile as possible. And you misread things a lot because of it. I explained what I meant, but you do you boo 😘