Alphadawg7

Poor throw by Josh, he’s made a couple poor throws already

Ive never seen a board so in love and obsessed with such a mediocre player. Its ok to want more speed here, but that doesn't make Worthy the guy either. The miss in that draft was no where close to Worthy. If the Bills could go back to their original pick and instead of trading the pick away made their selection, there is 0% it would be Worthy, literally 0%. There are better players that were available there than what Worthy is, including at WR, but also several other positions. The real "miss" was not trying to trade for BTJ (The big 3 were not realistic and there were no trade partners, this has been confirmed as none of the teams up that high wanted to come down as far as Buffalo was). Now its possible Beane tried, none of us were in the war room - but based on everything we heard and what Beane said before and after the draft, etc, its a pretty reasonable assumption that we did not try to move up at all. But, I really felt his combination of size and speed was rare and that to pair that with Josh was both something I thought we would try and get (and should try and get) if he got to a reasonable trade up range. At the same time, I get Beane (and really everyone) expected the team to be in a mini-retool last year with the turnover on both sides of the ball. So I get why moving up was less appealing in a season we were already down a 3rd even though I still would have entered the draft with the notion that if BTJ got close enough we would at least try and get him. And that opinion is not after his rookie season, I went into that draft both wanting that and believing that we would do that too given the needs at WR.

I have been praying for them to pursue Budda for 2 seasons now. He would make a lot of sense and would immediately be a significant upgrade even at this stage of his career to our safety room. Wilson and Waddle I have a hard time seeing as realistic options. Jets just paid Wilson to build around him knowing they have QB issues, so not sure why it would change now 6 weeks in. I don't think there is much of a chance they trade Wilson, and certainly don't think they would ever trade him to the Bills for Allen and Wilson to play together in their primes. I would be willing to give up a lot for Wilson, he is a tremendous talent, but that is also why I don't think the Jets have any interest in handing that kind of talent to Josh Allen in his prime. Waddle I can see getting moved potentially, but they literally have no one else to throw to now or next year, so not sure they pull that trigger and also highly doubt they would let him go to Buffalo in Allens prime either to help add the one area to Josh's arsenal he is missing, downfield speed. At WR, Olave would probably be the most realistic guy both available and as a target for the Bills. I would be open to us going after him, but I would be cautious about the cost as I do still think he gets a bit overrated around here. He would bring a welcomed deep threat to our outside passing game, but he doesn't have a great catch rate and his best season came on the back of heavy, yet inefficient, volume. So for me, I just don't want to see us over pay either.

We only lost because of careless turnovers to the tune of 3-1. So, no disrespect, but unless your justifiable frustration was over turning the ball over too much, not sure what justifiable frustrations manifested in this loss.

Whether Keon turns out to be the right or wrong pick is one thing - but he wasn't lasting much longer though. If they wanted him, they really couldn't go much further back as NE was hot on Keon and had been trying to trade up for him too. With Keon gone they took Polk early instead who was a similar prospect at pick 34.

If we dont at least reach the SB, then I think everything should be reevaluated, including both McD and Beane. But - honestly with Beane, I think the odds are much greater that we would get worse at GM, not better if we got rid of him Look around the league, there are not a lot of good GMs. And if you look at the "hot" GM's fans (many here) clamor for over the years, those same GM's are on the hot seat or fired shortly after and often for the things fans loved them for - big over pay moves that didn't work out and set the franchise back. I think the more reasonable approach would to first make a change at HC before I would clear out Beane. Especially when Beane is building the roster around his coaches and what they want. If you are going to make a change, then start with the coaches and see how things go for another season with Beane before you gamble on replacing him with someone who is a lot more likely to be a downgrade than an upgrade.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/46513232/buffalo-bills-wr-keon-coleman-benched-first-drive-snf Surprised I didn't see a thread on this. Doesn't sound like a big deal, it was just for the first series apparently over something during the week. If I had to guess (and I am only guessing as they didn't say what the specific reason was), I would bet he was late to something. Before people blow this up, if you read the article both McD and Brady talk on it and have both good things to say and site areas of where they want to see more consistency from the young player. So this isn't some doom or gloom moment, but still worth noting. The encouraging part is they said they are seeing growth, and the area they want to see more from is consistency, which should come as no surprise to anyone. Personally, I think Brady needs to do a better job at getting him (and Palmer) involved. While I like Brady overall, his play calling and his situational decisions have left a lot on the field out there at times this year. I think with a guy like Keon, they need to start making an effort to get him more involved and putting him position to do so more often with crossers, slants, and comebacks. He seems like someone who will get stronger as you get him more involved and we saw it week 1 as well. Note: Samuel is another guy I think they need to work in more, he is getting open and not getting the looks.

That is totally fair criticism. I think there is plenty of fair criticism with how Brady has called games this year, used personnel, etc. I am not saying Brady is doing a bad job, but I think there are holes in how he has called games that if he shored up the offense would have fewer stalled phases in games and we would score even more points.

No disrespect, but I don't think they really "planned" on Tre being the starter. They said we needed speed in our secondary, even if Tre was to prove he had something left in the tank, speed was never going to be part of what he brought to the table. Based on everything said about Hairston, Tre, etc I think the plan was to let them legit compete in hopes that Hairston either won the job in camp or would eventually take over the job during the season. Tre getting first teams reps to start camp was not only not a surprise, but 100% what I expected as that is pretty much what they always do. Open camp with the vet over a rookie as the starter until the rookie earns the spot. They trusted Tre, and quite honestly, Tre had a good camp and was showing the most ready to play over Hairston. Not like they just handed Tre the job, he legit had a better camp before Hairston got a full camp to compete due to injury. They have spoken a lot about wanting to get more speed in our secondary, so if they had their wish, it would be Hairston out there right now instead of Tre. The unfortunate injury altered that possibility, but with him coming back, my expectation is they won't rush him in there, but I suspect we will see a lot of Hairston in the KC game with the 3 speedster WR's they have in Worthy, Brown, and Tyquan who all had sub 4.3 40's coming out of college.

So our offense that before Sunday had an NFL record for consecutive games not losing the turnover battle, Josh was at 33 TD's - 2 Turnovers in his previous 13 games, we were the highest scoring team in the AFC since "Everybody Eats" became a thing, scored more total points than any team in the NFL last year, including KC and PHI who each played one more game than us with the SB and after we sat the offense in week 17, and we saw our QB, Shakir, etc also set individual records in that span as well, including winning Josh his first MVP who personally set several records in that span. But we are out here complaining about an offense that has been the highest scoring offense in Bills history, the AFC this year, the AFC regular season last year, the AFC post season last year - instead of a defense that can't get off the field on 3rd down, that gave up 32 points in the AFCCG to a team that didn't break 30 the entire season outside that one game and was down 31-0 at one point the following week after hanging 32 on us, and a defense that has given up 35 PPG to the chiefs in our 4 playoff losses to them? I don't know what this Bills syndrome is called where people don't like scoring unless we score the way they want to score, but its wild to me. Meanwhile, our D is having issues right now and not playing well enough to make up for the rare instance when Allen and the offense struggle like they did when they made us lose the turnover over battle for the first time in like a season and a half 3-1 aganst the Pats. Not exactly a surpirse to lose a game when you lose the turnover battle 3-1. And yet, all our D had to do was not allow a game winning FG drive against a 2nd year QB on a less talented roster - but our injury riddled D failed to hold once again and between that and the self inflicted errors by 2 fumbles and a bad throw INT, we lost by 3.

Thats fair, although I still dont buy them as I feel like DJ is gonna even out that team a bit, but its fair about the schedule and the Titans a couple years back

Yeah, I think they are too, and so are the Jags now as well. But when I say in the driver seat its because I don't truly value them today as a real threat to the 1 seed over the course of the season compared to the 2 most likely preseason threats of KC and Balt. Time can obviously prove them to be of course, but I just don't think either team is a strong 4-1 and still think Bills are in the drivers seat between the quality of our team, the reigning MVP, and our remaining schedule.

All good - but you know it’s possible to recognize the turnovers cost us the game, not McD, and also still want to replace McD. No one is saying you can’t still want a new HC, but it is pretty silly to blame him for this loss.

So it’s McDs fault Allen threw the INT? It’s McDs fault Allen and Knox fumbled a snap? I guess McD made Keon fumble too? We either lost points or gave up points on all 3 turnovers in a game we lost by 3. We literally win by 2-3 scores if we just don’t commit 2 of them. You have 2 choices - you can blame the person whose fault it’s not just because it fits an agenda or we can stay grounded in reality about the real reason we lost, which was 3 individual mistakes. And hate to break it to you, when you lose the turnover battle 3-1 you most often lose. This isn’t about defending McD, this is about the reality of why we actually lost as opposed to just firing the person who actually had nothing to do with it. Blaming McD for this loss is like blaming your golf clubs for why you shot 110. Does it mean McD gets a free pass - no - but it’s pretty silly to put all the blame on him where the players made 3 very critical individual mistakes.

4-1 and in the drivers seat for the 1 seed. Yes we lost - but we lost because Josh made a terrible pass and choice on the INT, and Knox and Allen collided on the snap to cause a fumble and Keon got stripped of a fumble. Josh doesn't make those 2 mistakes alone and we win by multiple scores. None of that was the fault of McD, but we have a fire McD thread because the players made poorly executed ball control after setting an NFL record for not losing the turnover battle literally all the way into this one game? McD may or may not need to be fired by seasons end, but this is kind of absurd right now and has exactly 0% chance to happen. Also, its comical to see McVay on this list. There is literally no possibility for this. Rams are not trading him lol. Might as well propose we are trading for both Myles Garrett and Justin Jefferson before the trade deadline too, it has about as much realism to it as trading for McVay.

Also completely untrue. Allen didnt throw it because he bailed on a clean pocket before setting his feet to make a throw. Literally every explanation you have given is factually disprovable on film.

I mean some things are just coincidences.

Sorry that is simply not true. If the ball is out in front and to the outside, not only can the S not close on time, the only way to intercept would be to go through Samuel unless Allen threw a bad ball. To say its a sure INT is just flat out incorrect. What you and some others are conveniently doing is taking an early screen shot BEFORE Samuel makes his break, which happens in a fraction of a second after Allen bails on the pocket. You are using that screen shot because it reduces the info to be able to paint a bias instead of the video that clearly shows Allen has a clean shot and and a clean pocket had he not bailed. And NO Samuel is not open because Allen bailed, the safety STAYED with Samuel, he did NOT come off him to let him get open, Samuel was flat out open had Allen just stood in the pocket on the drop back and fired. No offense, you can say its an INT as much as you want, it doesn't make it true and QBs with lesser arms complete this same throw every week in the NFL.

Thats not accurate, Allen is still in his drop back when the window to hit Samuel is opening, and he remained open as Allen moved to his right. The point is, Allen took off early and had he not, then the throw to Samuel was right there and an easy TD strike or close to it. There was no reason to roll right when he did, he should have seen the easy throw to Samuel opening up.

In a Bills fantasy league chat I posted several times during the game that I got to give credit where credit was due for being a big time throw or some kind of Allen-esque type play. He isn't there yet, but the kid has some traits I really liked coming out of college, and quite honestly he is further along in his mechanics than where Josh was in his 2nd year when Josh was still struggling with accuracy. He isn't going to be the next "Allen", because I don't think anyone is, Allen is that good. But the kid has impressed me where he is at and I think he has a bright future. And anytime a young player plays well in an upset win in primetime it always gets magnified. But end of the day, Bills should have won this game by 2-3 scores, and easily, had it no been for 3 self inflicted turnovers. NE and Maye still dont have the fire power to hang if we don't beat ourselves, but the kid deserves credit, he played well and led a game winning drive.

How is the pass to Samuel not the right throw from the pocket? If Allen puts the ball the outside in front of Samuel the only way it can be defended is to go through Samuel. Thats not incorrect, thats just what it is. There was without a shadow of a doubt a window to hit Samuel, its honestly not even really debatable, its just a fact.

I think he is calling it a desperation ball because Josh had to run around for what felt like an eternity to be able to get the pass off. The pass its self wasn't a "desperation" hope and pray ball, but the play in itself was in desperation mode scrambling to extend to find something or someplace to go with it. I still believe Allen flat out missed the right read to Samuel from a clean pocket that would have been a TD or close to a TD.

Respectfully disagree. If Allen puts that ball to the outside and in front of Samuel then Gonazalez would have to go through Samuel to get to the ball. There was for sure a window for Allen to hit Samuel, and with Allens arm strength he might have hit Samuel with out him ever getting touched. Shakir still was interfered with, maybe the most egregious PI of the night, so terrible non call by Refs that should have seen the drive continue. So I don't think there was anything wrong with throwing to Shakir - but there was a clear missed opportunity, and easier opportunity to Samuel from the pocket that gets us close to a TD or a TD. I would bet good money Josh wants that one back.

Flonkerton. Coffee Cup Race. Hate Ball. M&M Chug. Guess The Elevator. Dunderball. Josh would definitely concur 😉

Well that is fair, and I am a big Baker supporter, been a fan since college. So I agree, I think Baker is firmly in the top 10 QB category right now and if I had to pick one I would take Baker over Purdy. That being said, I do think Purdy gets short changed a lot by others, and the way your post read I thought that was more your take on it too, so thanks for clarifying. Yeah, I agree with you on Mac. A backup comes in and wins a game, especially one they weren't expected to, and they get the attention and buzz. But to be fair to Mac, guys like Geno, Baker, and Darnold are all having success later in their careers too after being premium draft picks but faltering in the earlier stops in the NFL as they got better or into better situations. So who knows, maybe Mac can find a rebirth somewhere too. But I still agree with you and think that Purdy is the better QB and the guy I would trust more as my starter, at least right now.