Alphadawg7

Yeah for sure, definitely not saying throw in the towel on Zay. Just saying I see him staring down the barrel of an uphill climb right now. He has yet to establish himself as excelling in any area of his job, this is a make or break offseason for him I believe simply due to a numbers crunch. Reality is we are likely signing a quality WR in FA then drafting one. Already thats those 2 relevant guys, plus Foster (who is already ahead of Zay) and then Duke and Zay. And its not out of the question for them to add even one more WR to the mix via FA or Draft. The only way Zays job isnt in jeopardy is if we only bring in one more WR, likely via draft, into the mix with Foster, Zay and Duke. Then he is probably a front runner to play in the slot. But I find that not very likely and the most likely scenario is a FA and a high drafted rookie. I have nothing against Zay, was excited when we drafted him, but he has been quite disappointing so far and I expect there will be stiff competition along side him this offseason. If I am Zay I am paying close attention to both how many WR's they bring in and to WHO they are. For instance, if we sign Humphries, I think Zays days are numbered.

I do love the Duke signing though and of course the Foster signing. He has some serious potential. I know he has to prove it in the NFL, but this kid always had a ton of talent, was just off field stuff that landed him in CFL and he certainly seems to have learned from his mistakes and turned a corner. He has Brandon Marshall or Dez Bryant type game to him. Now he has to show he can keep it going in the NFL, but I am very bullish on this signing. I have said several times in other threads I am not convinced Zay will be any higher than 4th on depth chart come week 1, and could be lower or even not on the roster anymore. Foster already passed him, I think Duke has the potential to do so too, and I am sure we will sign a FA still and draft one, both of which will be higher on the depth chart than Zay. His best shot is to out play Duke, but right now, I like Duke in that battle if I was to bet on it.

I dont see room on the roster for someone like Garcon UNLESS they are going to cut/trade Zay or Duke. We will likely only carry 6 WRs with the 6th guy being more for ST like McKenzie or signing someone like Patterson. Foster, Duke, and Zay already make up 3 of the other 5. I doubt Garcon and a rookie WR is all they would do to address the WR position this year. There is no way we won't be drafting a WR in first 3 rounds, and could take one in the first. With or without Garcon, I would expect they still try and sign a better FA WR too. With only 5 spots to fill (6th being for the ST guy) I just cant see where Garcon gets a roster spot. I would put this as very low odds of happening as a result.

Huh? I have no idea what this response has to do with what you responded to. Are you sure you hit reply on the right comment?

This is what I would do: First: Shore up OL in Free agency, sign 3 key guys. Second: Sign Humphries, WR in FA too to give us a Kupp/Edelman type slot weapon for Allen. Also sign Cordalle Patterson as WR and gadget player depth, but mostly to substantially upgrade our return game. Third: Trade down with Washington to #15 (I know its hard to mock trade downs, but I think there is a lot of potential for this to be a reality) and pick up their 2nd. Draft: #15 - Hockenson, TE. #40 - (Top WR available) - Butler, WR #46 (from Was) - Oshane Ximines, EDGE From there on, draft a RB like Love or Henderson in the 3rd or 4th round too. Boom. What we accomplish is: Allen gets an established and reliable slot weapon in the mold of Kupp/Edelman Allen gets a bonafide Kelce like weapon in Hockenson We add a high level WR prospect along side either Foster or maybe even Duke (I think he has a legit shot to compete for a starting spot here where Foster may be more the big play guy). Still have Zay and Patterson rounding out the WR room at 5 and 6 (yes, if we have Humphries, Butler, Foster, and Duke, I think Zay falls to 5th on depth chart as a rotational player in that group) We get an under the radar stud EDGE rushing prospect (small school) who is a big time leader on the field too We add some youthful explosion that can catch and run in our RB room. And our OL was shored up through established vets to make an immediate improvement to Allens protection and our Run Game. And most importantly...a deep playoff run in 2019! FOOTNOTE: We can STILL do this without a trade down with Washington. To pick up that extra 2nd round pick, we could trade our 3rd and one of our 4ths to get back into the 2nd round to get someone like Ximines still (or obviously a player they covet). I do not think Beane intends to make 10 draft choices and I certainly think a trade up at some point is even more likely if we do make a trade down and end up with 11 or 12 draft choices. #Alpha4GM #GoBills

Lets be real though...he came in midseason not knowing the system or playbook on a team that already had Star and Kyle along with rookie Horrible Harry. Wasnt like he was suddenly going to start of either Kyle or Star, especially not having a full offseason and regular season with the team and playbook. So still playing one third of the snaps under those conditions is actually impressive. He quickly carved his way into the rotation as a midseason arrival. Why do people expect he was going to play more than that under those circumstances? This is where once again "stats" do not tell the whole story without the context. And I dont say that to advocate for say $10m a year, I say that specifically about your criticism of the 1/3 snaps without applying the context to that part of the information.

Beane has been excellent as our GM, I for the life of me can not figure out why people cant see it. Cracks me up at all the people who were pissing and moaning about the offense last year as if THAT offense WAS the rebuild lol. There is a massive difference in FIELDING a team and BUILDING a team. Last year we had to field an offense still while we dealt with the one season cap situation we HAD to go through in order to clean up the cap. Yet people still slam him without factoring the facts and logic of the situation. Makes me laugh ever harder when people blame things like Robert Woods not being here and KC/Mahomes trade on Beane when he was an employee of the Carolina Panthers when those things happened too. Cleaned out our cap situation a year faster than he said it would take when hired. Managed to get a 2nd round pick and a player who helped us break the 17 year playoff drought for oft injured and over paid Sammy Watkins (and I really like Sammy, but facts are facts). Got Browns to give us a premium pick, first pick in 3rd round, in a deep draft for a QB no one here thought would fetch more than a 6th. Wasnt afraid to make a midseason trade to try and get some WR help in KB because we were in an unexpected playoff run. And it helped us make the playoffs as we dont win the SnowBowl game without him. Managed to trade up THREE times in the first round last year to get TWO players and DID NOT give up ANY future FIRST round picks, or any future picks at all. I dont know thats ever been done before. Found the QB of our offense of the future and the QB of our defense of the future with those trades. Had a great first draft finding great value behind those picks at other positions. Found a diamond in the rough in Foster after the draft and wasnt afraid to cut dead weight at WR midseason to make room for him to get on the field. Managed to acquire even more draft assets (10 total) this year despite all the trading around last year. Still managed to field the #2 defense in the NFL DESPITE the big offensive challenges first half of the season making life really hard on the D. And there is more than this...but what's the point. People are still going to B***h that KB didn't ultimately workout despite that he did help us break a 17 year streak. People are still going to whine about the offense not being good last year or the OL not being good despite we had a rookie QB who missed time, we had 2 OL with Pro Bowl resumes retire after trading our under performing LT to get into position to get Allen, etc etc. Beane is doing a great job SO FAR...he now has to show his building skills. He is a master of building a foundation and cleaning up a bad situation getting more value than people expect for assets we are sending out. This is the year now that the real rebuild starts around that rock solid foundation they have established. He will ultimately be judged on the success of that, but so far, there is a LOT to love about him in my book. Oh...and we broke our 17 year drought under his watch along with McD, who is another young star coach in this league who has been coaching his a** off here getting the most out of this roster.

I do not disagree with you on that...I think if he shines at the combine he will be the first WR taken or at least one of the first 2. However there are some who believe he will fall to the 2nd (I do not agree), so I put his name there anyway because until the combine and workouts, we dont really know what kind of order the WRs can go. Its crowded at the top with at least 7 guys who have the potential to be the first couple WR's taken and the combine and workouts will start making the pecking order a little more predictable I expect.

I dont even know where to begin with this lol. I love how you challenge my knowledge of working out just because you are convinced from a photo someone is on roids. lol Ive been playing sports and an athlete my whole life, so yeah I know a little about working out. But who cares, means nothing. I also love you think its more likely he is on roids than it being an exaggerated look in a still image from the angle where they are all flexing out. Not to mention, all the guys look huge in that pic, so guess they must all be roiding out ahead of the combine LMAO. I know all about Harry, I have been championing him myself, so stop telling me about him like I dont like him. I even mocked him to us in my mock draft I posted at #15 after the trade I mocked with Washington. HOWEVER: He is NOT the definitive or consensus best WR in this draft right now...why...because NO one REALLY knows who is going to be the best "prospect" going into night 1 of the draft until after combine, workouts, etc. Thats because there are at least SEVEN guys who all have a chance to convince people they are the top guy through that process. And if you dont think Harry's 40 time is going to matter then you dont know as much as you think about this draft or Harry. His number 1 criticism is will he have the ability to separate at the NFL level as there are concerns about his speed. Is he going to be a guy like Brandon Marshall whose speed was good enough and size and ball skills Elite? Or is he going to be more pedestrian like Devin Funchess...these are a LEGIT question on him, and his 40 time will literally be a massive factor on whether he goes first round or second round because its CROWDED at WR right now. He is gonna go first 2 rounds unless his 40 time a horrific (which I do not expect it to be). Its fine if your OPINION is that Harry is the top guy, have no issue with that. But you keep saying it like its fact when its just your opinion and its not an opinion even shared by the marjority simply because the WR class is very talented and deep. So lots of opinions out there. I think its a bit hilarious that you just assume Metcalf is going to get busted for PEDs. This seems to be more about you wanting to prove Harry to be the better prospect than any actual knowledge of the situation. He may very well test positive, anything is possible, but to just assume such an unlikely scenario is going to happen over a pic where he is at an angle and flexing is a bit silly to me. To each their own...

Disagree. Mack didn't help them when it mattered most, advancing in the Playoffs. Our achilles heal was NOT our D, it was the lack of talent on offense. Our D was #2 in the league, and we dont just add Macks sacks to our sack total and assume all the Bills sacks still happen on top of Macks. Thats not how it works. More importantly, lets say we did have 15 additional sacks. How does that translate to 3 to 4 more wins? Thats not even one more negative play per game. Sacks are over rated stat, yes its key to bring pressure, but that sack is literally one play. And in a 16 game season, you are talking about less than 1 more per game. Yet we weren't losing because we didn't sack the QB one more time per game, we were losing because we were not scoring enough points. Mack is a great player, but he didn't help the Raiders win, and while he had an impact for the Bears, the offense still failed to advance the team. We need to invest those 2 first round picks in bringing balance to this team in getting our offense up to par. Not taking a strong unit already and making it a little bit stronger. So love Mack, but I am glad we did NOT trade 2 firsts for him. We have a ton of young talent on our D, its an ascending until already...spend the money and picks on helping the complete lack of talent around Josh on the offense. Then use the cap space not used on Mack to keep our young players in the next few years.

Well remember, I have us addressing our starting TE in the draft with one of the Iowa TE's or Irv. I just want one of these TE's in the draft over the guys in FA. I think Croom is suitable to be that 2nd TE with the high quality rookie. Im not against signing Tate, certainly would be a good addition. I just slightly prefer Humphries for this team as I think he is the perfect type of player to help Josh underneath. While Tate can go do that too, I think Humphries will be a great value and there are young WRs I am really high on in this draft.

There are a couple TE's I like in FA, but I am not convinced they are much better than what Croom can bring to the table. Guys like Jesse James for instance. Hate the idea of signing Eifert, and I loved him in the draft. Cant help the team from medical tent. I would rather go after one of the Iowa TE's or Irv in the draft and let Croom be the veteran guy. Agree on the WR position, however, I would actually prefer Humphries over Tate. I think I would rather pursue a potential #1 guy in the draft. To be honest, I really like the Duke signing. I think Foster and Duke are an intriguing combo to be honest, and yeah I know Duke has to prove it in the NFL still, but its not like this kid ever lacked talent, it was off field stuff that landed him in CFL, and he seems to have matured. Foster and his speed, Duke and his size and catch radius...combine that with Humphries in the slot and one of the WRs in round 1 or 2...thats quite an intriguing group and dont know we need Tate. I wont hate signing Tate by any means, but I think I would rather go with youth over Tate and grab a great slot guy like Humphries to be the Kupp/Edelman type player for Josh while he grows with the youthful core of Foster/Duke/Rookie WR. That would leave Zay on the outside looking in for playing time as the 5th guy on the depth chart. Now he can WORK his way up the ladder to and EARN playing time, because right now he is just not excelling in any one area of his game.

Why is he too expensive? We have more cap room than we will spend, and his actual contract is a bargain for the type of player he is. So we can get him and those OL too.

Agreed, and I really want to see us go heavy on the OL in Free Agency for this reason. I want to see Josh get proper protection now rather than rely on both drafting the right guys and grooming them which sometimes takes 1 to 3 seasons for them to really round out. Im fine drafting some, but hope they bring in quality veteran players to really anchor the line this year too. There is quality and value in the FA group along the line this year and we have a ton of cap room. And the other big needs aren't nearly as good in FA this year like WR and TE for instance. Some value there, but its probably going to cost too much and both those positions are very rich in talent in the draft.

Wait, thats your barometer of comparing Fitz to Zay? Are you really trying to put Fitz and Zay in the same category of WR? He makes easy catches look hard. Fitz had 3 straight seasons of 100 catches before Rosen, yet you want to compare Fitz to Zay because Rosen couldn't get Fitz the ball? lol Sorry man, this line of logic is just not a path I connect with. Anyone mentioning Zay and Fitz in their same breath is not someone I will see eye to eye with on this topic. There is NOT a single thing that Zay excels at...not one. Separation - Not good at it and struggles to do it consistently. He makes his more impactful plays after Allen has had to run to by time because people were not open early in the routes (because he doesn't get good separation) and Zay can thennget away from a DB finally as its very hard to hold coverage that long. Physicality - Literally is man handled frequently by physical corners like the Detroit and Pats games this year. Hands - Does not catch the ball clean, bobbles even easy catches, and drops too many passes Speed - Mediocre speed, which is fine and you can be a good player in this league with his speed, but its not an area anyone can say he excels at like Foster does. Route running - See Separation above. He doesn't have good feet, and doesn't run crisp routes, which is why he struggles on separation. Contested catches - Probably the thing he is literally the worst at especially how he is so often manhandled in those situations FITZ is still very good to great at most everything on that list except speed and even Elite still in a couple of those categories...and I am talking about 2018 Fitz, not prime Fitz. Even a bad player will "compile" stats on a team with little other choices. Meanwhile a very good player like Fitz will struggle to compile stats if they cant throw him the ball.

No shock to me on that Gunner, you are more astute than many on those kind of things. I was actually pretty excited about the Hyde signing myself, however, while I really liked the signing he did still exceed even my optimistic expectations. And like you, I wasnt very inspired by Poyer signing and thought he would be solid place holder at best until we found a long term solution, so he was a bigger surprise for me too. Yeah, said earlier I do not know that he is the "starting" C solution, but as of right now I think he would be the best C currently on the roster and agree probably our best G too. We certainly need a lot more help than just this signing of course, but I really like this move for a February move, especially with the cap room we have. Personally, there is enough FA talent on the OL that I hope we shore the OL up fully in Free Agency and focus on positions like WR, TE, EDGE, and RB in the draft. I think he would be better to surround Allen with quality veteran talent on the OL and then go youthful at the skill positions to grow with Allen.

Tyrod I think ends up in Washington, Baltimore, Seattle, SD, Oak, Denver, Mia, or Jax. Potential to compete to start, at least for one year: Was, Mia, Jax or possibly Oak (ONLY if they traded Carr like some think they may try to do) All these teams are in transition at QB, could go with rookies and need a vet like Cleveland did last year. Oak, I think they may try and trade Carr and that could be to Giants, Mia, or Jax too...and if they do, then they are obviously drafting a QB then look at signing a veteran guy like TT the way Cleveland did last year, especially if they drafted Murray. Certain backup: Balt, Sea, SD, Denver, Oak. Similar styles in terms of his ability to run and lead a similar offense in Balt and Seattle. Although, Balt has (or had, not sure of his contract situation) RG3, so there may not be a need there. Seattle I don't think has a good backup, and Tyrod could be a guy that run the type of offense they run if Wilson got hurt and they even considered Kap at one point. SD has the Lynn connection and they dont have anything behind an older Rivers right now that can help them compete if Rivers misses a little time.

I dont disagree that both QB's need help, a lot of help. My point was that there are people calling it an excuse for Josh Allen but then defending Rosen using the same stance of he had garbage around him. So I found it ironic that people validate Rosen for the same thing they call an "excuse" for Allen when Allen decisively had the better season with a slightly worst cast IMO. Like I said earlier, Fitz has been running at this same speed for the past few seasons, yet still had 100 catches all 3 prior seasons. All his metrics were the same except Rosen who struggled to get him the ball. Fitz still got open like he has, still had his elite route skills and great hands, but Rosen just wasnt getting him the ball. And McCoy was outplayed by Ivory on the same team with the same line. So IMO, David is a better RB right now than McCoy. Put them on the same team and I bet anything David both wins and holds the job and grossly out performs McCoy. Doesn't mean McCoy doesn't have something left in the tank to be a good contributor next year behind a better OL, but if they were both running behind the same good OL on another team, David would have the better season IMO. I am not a fan of Clay at this stage of his career and do not feel like his head is in the game, so yes I like the kid in AZ better than Clay at this point, not by much but a little. HOWEVER, Croom is a good mention as I do like Croom better than RSJ in AZ, and I wish we used Croom more this year. I said he had an edge at TE because our better TE was not on the field as much as should have been here in Buffalo, so Allen didn't get to work with him as much as he could have. But the factoring in of Croom, I could see the dispute on my comment on the TE position. But I still stand by that Fitz would have easily been the best WR on our team this year and led the team in receptions had he been in Buffalo as the #1 all 16 games. KB and Zay on their best days are not as good on his worst day even right now. Foster I am high on, but Fitz is a better overall WR still and Foster only came on late in the season where Rosen had Fitz all year. And still stand by the comment that DJ is a better RB today than McCoy. Its all good, but IMO I feel Allen did more with slightly less to work with. Neither QB was in a good offensive situation, however Allen found a way to keep getting better and maximizing the minimal assets he had to work with...same cant be said for Rosen this past year. Doesn't mean Rosen has no future, but for me, Allen is decisively a better franchise QB prospect right now than Rosen. So what WR on our team right now is better than Fitz right now? Hint: None. And our OL was just as bad, the BIG difference is that Allen is insanely talented at escaping.

How do you know he is below average? He was pretty solid player in Washington, just because he didn't work out for the Jets who had a bad OL in general and he was hurt on literally his snapping hand doesn't mean he is some scrub. Does it mean he will be some savior here, no, but its also not fair to just assume he sucks because a team poorly run like the Jets released him. People like to label people scrubs if another team goes in another direction, but I seem to see quite a few very very good players on the Bills roster that were not not kept or let go by other teams. Guys like Hyde, Poyer, Zo, etc were all mostly unheralded signings. Hyde probably was the one that had a little optimism, but no one was running around thinking he was going to be as good as he is here. But the truth is, teams sign a player under one regime, then a new one comes in and feels differently about the player. Gase sucked in Miami, so now we are supposed to believe he is a genius and knows this guy sucks so he cut him? Let Gase prove he can be a good HC before we just start assuming every move he makes is right and other teams are dumb for signing the players he moves on from. PS: We cut, trade, or not resign guys all the time in Buffalo that go on to be good players, even great players on other teams. So its pretty silly for us to start saying a guy sucks because a HC who sucked in his last stop let a guy go he didn't sign at his new team.

Thats a new one...upgrading is not a good thing? Hmmm...not sure I agree with that logic.

So you know he is on juice? LMAO...come on. You really think this kid is roiding up just before he is going to go through a litany of medical examinations and blood tests? Hahaha, where do you people come up with this stuff? Why do people default to "roids" every time someone has an incredible physique? Second, I love N'Keal Harry too, but there are a lot of WR's who have a claim for the best WR in this draft. Its a very talented class and there are at least 7 guys who have a legit shot of being the first WR taken and the combine will certainly start impacting how they start grading out because they are so close now. Harry certainly could be the first WR taken, but he is no lock and his 40 time will be very impactful on where he is drafted. Metcalf is the one guy that many feel has the "Top 10" pick potential and could have been projected there had he not missed half the season with a neck injury. He is both big and fast, has great hands, a good route tree, and excels at contested catches too. Like I said earlier, a big combine (which many expect him to have) and he could really start to separate himself as the top WR. But then again, there are several others in the mix who could elevate themselves too at the combine, Its going to be an exciting combine for the WR position for sure, much like last year was for the QB's. But for anyone to say he is NOT the best WR in the draft right now is premature before the combine.

My point is, he is a lot more Eli Manning than Peyton Manning. He got a couple lucky breaks to accomplish what he did that year. But overall, hes mostly been a mid level QB in his career. That playoff run was his best overall body of work still, but honestly, he was as lucky to get the SB as Minnesota was to beat the Saints last year in the playoffs. Still he made the play, so not discrediting him, I mean a SB win is a SB win and he played well in the SB and other parts of the playoffs. So even with the lucky break, it was quite the accomplishment. I did however gasp at the contract he got off it by Baltimore, just felt like an emotional over pay. Then again, QB's are continuously over paid. For me, I think this is a mistake by Elway...again...at the QB position. Last year I said repeatedly;y he would NOT draft a QB, although I felt he certainly should have. Unless Keenum was the piece that got you back to the Super Bowl, you dont pass on a QB rich draft with the 5th pick. And no one other than probably Elway and Keenums family saw him as the missing SB run piece. This just seems like doubling down on the mistake, although I will add in Elways defense this isnt a QB rich draft. But if I were the Broncos, I would have either drafted a QB this year (IF there was one they liked) or let Keenum play this season out and then look to draft a QB next year. But Elway is always in win now mode, but I don't think he has the roster that can win now in a division with both the Chargers and Chiefs in it, not to mention the Pats in the AFC along with potentially rising teams in the AFC like the Colts, Bills, Browns, etc who all seem to be ascending and have lots of cap room and young talent. So, for me, this is a meh move even though it was a highly predictable move I felt like was coming, just like last year when I was certain he was foolish enough to think Keenum can help them win now. He won the SB not with the most potent offense in NFL history (they were blown out by Seahawks), but with an Elite D and below average offense...he is trying to replicate that again, but the issue is the D isnt nearly as good as it was that SB year in 2015 when it was Elite.

You obviously missed the fact he was hurt last year on his snapping hand and it affected him so much they tried him at guard. Not really fair fair to judge him while he played hurt. He’s better than you’re giving him credit for just because he’s a “cast off” as you put it. He was a solid player or better in Washington before signing to the Jets.

Exactly my point. He’s a SB winning QB cuz a few lucky plays saved their playoff run.

Fitz was coming off three consecutive 100 catch seasons, with all his metrics being similar this past year as to those 3 years. The difference from one year to the next was that Rosen stunk and couldn't get him the ball. His catch percentage, ypc, etc were all on par with years past. I love how now people blame Fitz for Rosen not being good, yet Fitz has produced until Rosen. David Johnson is a much better back than McCoy at this point of his career. Both those guys are a lot better than their counter parts here in Buffalo. So I will respectfully disagree that is wasn't much better having Fitz for a full year and David Johnson over the #1 rotating WR combo of KB/Zay/Foster for 16 games and a McCoy who was outplayed by Ivory. KB was a trainwreck and held the team back..Zay cant get open and struggles to catch...and Foster came on late, but he was mostly a big play guy only with speed and has no where near the finesse, hands, or route tree of Fitz (yet). Im high on Foster like everyone else, but he is no where near the complete WR Fitz is and only is a better deep threat where Fitz is better at literally everything else. Poor QB play makes the cast look worse. Look how much worse our cast and offense looked with NP and DA compared to Allen. Rosen made that offense worse, doesn't mean he cant get better and have a great career, and he certainly needs more help too...but Allen elevated a bad cast while Rosen didn't and brought the cast down.