HardyBoy

Yeah, I'm curious what people who understand line play watch the all 22 (I'm talking specifically about me being clueless). If they're basically letting them get pressure to a specific part of the field intentionally, that's not necessarily bad play I would think. Like they know they're going to likely get beat, so basically make it so you intentionally let them beat you to different places intentionally to let JA shift in the pocket for his 3rd and 4th reads/have the plays turn into secondary planned scramble drills. Wonder if that is what they did last year so successfully, and they tried the first two games to do what Allen worked on over the off-season, and it just wasn't quite there yet. I remember hearing Allen say that he has a choice in the off-season to learn new stuff or talk to the coaching staff and just keep certain things out of the game plan. Wondering if they ended up going back to what was working more last year with the line, and they're going to put some of those in cutting routes that JA was working on on hold for a bit. My guess is doing that choreographed Okey doke (assuming that's what they're doing) does make the running game more challenging.

It seemed like they did something protection wise to give JA an outlet to scramble to his right. The up the middle pressure wasn't there so he could step up and then out over and over. That could have been a matter of the guards playing better for sure, but wondering if it was something they intentionally adjusted to have happen scheme wise.

Edit: Barlow wrote the lyrics, Weir wrote the music. How crazy is it that you get sent to boarding school and randomly get put in a dorm room with Bob Weir...

Think that one's actually a John Perry Barlow song, who was such an amazingly cool and influential guy. Sorry for being "that guy," but more about not missing a chance to shout out JPB!

Maybe I should refine this a bit. It is very hard to compare defenses across eras, so I am not going to. Players are bigger, faster, stronger today than even 20 years ago. The schemes are more complex and the coverages more exotic. If you put a modern nfl offense against even the 85 Bears as they were schemed and constructed they would get destroyed. Josh Allen is playing against the most difficult to read defensive schemes in the history of the league. Game plans are being designed by machine learning models that can predict scarily well what a team is likely to do in various situations way better than people can. Unadjusted for era, even mediocre defenses today are much better than defenses in the past, especially pre the 2002 bucs I would say. You can say all you want how dominant sprinters from different eras were against their competition, but fact is world records get broken every year. Does not mean that the sprinters from former eras are were bad, or even that if they were in their primes today they wouldn’t be setting world records, but the game keeps improving. So, in absolute terms, unadjusted for era, I would feel pretty confident saying that the healthy 2021 Steelers defense is one of the most challenging to play against all time. You stick them in 1985, they would be historic (shoot, last years Bills defense would be historic if you stuck them in 1985). Flip it, and stick the 85 Bears in the league today and they’d get run off the field. You know what, I’ve been getting such strong reactions to my posts the last two days, I’m just going to go all in! The 1985 Bears and the 1986 Giants defenses are mediocre by today’s standards.

Dolphins was a big stretch, they have a great secondary, which is a matchup challenge for this team, but the Bills ran on them. The Steelers, absolutely I will die on that hill. Three in their prime all pros on the dline, and Hayden and Fitzpatrick in the secondary. If they stay healthy that defense is insanely good.

The Steelers dline, Hayden and Fitzpatrick, no question there IMO if they can stay healthy. The dolphins secondary is really, really good. That one might be a bit of a stretch in terms of top 50, but as far as matchup problems for this Bills offense, I would say absolutely this would be one of the 50 hardest defenses for them to match up against in the history of the league (yes I know how much the game has changed).

They’re clearly not in game shape yet, and the timing with the receivers is off. They just played two top defenses, potentially top 50 historically good defenses, and should have won both games, with a struggling offense (that blocked punt team screwed things up). Give them a minute to figure out how they are being played and make adjustments.

I know, this is crazy. Not the type of attention I was hoping for though.

I guess that’s my initial question: are there reasons this wouldn’t work from a rules or just the fact that you can’t make a good decision in that situation because is so fast perspective.

There is literally an article on this from a few years ago: https://www.sbnation.com/2017/7/19/15992038/let-your-quarterback-punt-please-nfl-football Haha that was genuinely funny (no sarcasm). I was like is that Debbie Reynolds?! Then the end of the commercial with the umbrella…yup!

You guys need to read Belichik’s comment on how the kicking game evolved over time and start anticipating the next potential advance. Again, you would scheme this in a way that the qb would be running away from any rushers sideways if the ball is going to the punter. Honestly, punting on 4th and 1 from the other team’s 41 is just a really bad play. I get pinning them deep and hoping your crowd can help lead to a turnover, or you get great field position, but how about you just get a yard and there is your turnover for all practical matters, and you have great field position. That’s literally what I said when I was saying it could be like a ruby play (I am well aware of the sarcasm)! Maybe not long 4th and inches, but on 4th and 5 on the 40, if the play isn’t there then you punt it, but the punter is a specialist for just that situation, and a former qb and could also throw it in instead of punting.

Not if you go for it a bunch and the punter is a decoy. He’s one step punting it out of the end zone if he gets it basically. Almost like a ruby play. They run it on the jet sweep and lateral to the punter to punt it down. Basically an option play with the punter as a part of it. Keep Allen out of it completely if you want. Or teach a qb that couldn’t quite make it to punt and carry them as a dedicated special team player for 4th downs inside the 45.

I mean obviously they would scheme it in a way that Allen isn’t at risk of getting hit, I’m not suggesting he stays in to block a punt rush. I guess what I’m thinking is you’re basically running a regular offensive play with Haak in as an option in case the play isn’t there scheme wise.

On punts inside the 50, where Allen plays the guy between the snapper and the punter. Then put McKenzie in one gunner spot Kumero at the other and run a jet sweep. If the play is there, they snap it to Josh, if not Haak does a pooch punt and pins them inside the 20, or bashes it through the end zone. Are there motion rules if you kick a punt that are different from regular plays?

Looked like the timing was off for the offense. It’s week one, the win counts the same, but it literally tells you nothing. They should all be non-conference games in week one IMO. This might be the best the Steelers are and this is nowhere near the Bills’ ceiling. They will get the offensive timing and the options routes locked down and they will look a lot better.

Bills defense also seemed to figure it out at the end of the season and in the playoffs. I think the lack of a running game to ice multiple possession leads, allowing the other team to get the ball back to score meaningless points when you’re in a prevent defense doesn’t help. Also, bills d had trouble getting off the field because they had trouble getting teams behind the chains early in the game. Allowed teams to stay balanced longer, shortening the game and keeping the ball out of JAs hands. Most teams just couldn’t take score enough other than the chiefs and titans. I’m not sure if I’m agreeing or disagreeing with you! honestly though I’m not sure there is a right answer here, a lot of variables. At the same time, calling the Tenn game a blowout isn’t exactly fair for pt diff purposes. I know the score is the score, but iirc wasn’t that game close in the fourth quarter?

Best advice is don’t get all riled up about every play, it’s super annoying to watch football with people who get all out of shape about a 5 yard run on 2nd and 4 in the 1st quarter. Think of it this way. Anytime the other team comes up to the line, audibles and gets a decent run, instead of getting annoyed, view it as a likely win for the defense. They were probably looking to burn them over the top and the defense figured out the game plan and forced them to audible. Basically the defense won the chess match and conceded a decent run over a chunk play. Even if I’m not right with that way of thinking, people listen, stop getting all angry about inconsequential plays, people are scared to tell you, but you’re super annoying to watch sports with. The nfl comes down to like 6 plays a game, that 7 yard run in the second quarter to cross the 50 is not one of those plays, it really doesn’t matter much at all. Every time your defense does not give up one of those six plays on a given snap is another opportunity for them to be the unit that makes one of those plays on the next snap.

@buffalo716 can you drill into the scheme that was consistently putting Edmunds in the soft spot of the zone and teams started exploiting it into an essentially no win situation last year for Edmunds? Think it was their cover three base shell, but can’t remember exactly. Maybe show how they adjusted the second half of the season? Think it’s important for people to understand some more of the nuance behind Edmunds performance early in the year and that it wasn’t just his injury or really even his ability to read a play in a lot of situations, just the scheme the bills were playing and offenses figuring out a way to exploit it.

Isn’t it kind of a synergy of the orchestrated zone blitzing they did in Pittsburg and Philly for a long time (basically everything designed to get one specific guy to come free, and the others just getting players to move and free up a weakness for that one guy to come free) and what Rex Ryan was doing with the Jets, having guys walking all around super late (instead of just the safeties) and causing a ton of confusion. But less aggressive and realizing it always comes down to a handful of plays, so wait for the other offense to get confused and throw you a few of those plays over the course of the entire game, instead of trying to force it to happen and getting burned. Otherwise, if it’s not one of the game defining plays, rally to the ball, keep them in front of you and make a solid tackle without giving up YAC or something over the top.

With the robber look, having the safety basically coming down into the box, especially with how late and unexpectedly the bills safety’s shift (which was not as significant last year without crowd noise because easy to call an audible even with two seconds on the play clock), gotta think that it basically allows Edmunds or Milano to sell out on the pass and have the safety come in and fill that gap if it is a run. Like it’s not just that the lb is not blitzing, but he is potentially cycling back to the safety’s robber position and having the safety rotate down and the entire defense pivots kind of. lol, that is actually more of a question, I am not a football player, but I try and pay attention to smart people talking about it and have played soccer, lax and bball and understand defensive principles. Basically synergizing what I’ve heard smart people say in parts, along with my conceptual understanding of defense in other sports. Am I right, or at least rightish?!

First level should be a participation trophy no?

Totally appreciate that perspective and you very well might be right. They had the third pick in the draft this year and could have had arguably the first QB on their board still depending on what they value. Instead they traded down and got a bunch of picks, but then spent a bunch trading back up. That trade up to get Waddle honestly felt a ton like the Watkins pick when a bunch of other really good receivers were still on the board. The fact that they made that pick in advance of the draft almost makes me think they all agreed to trade the 3rd pick, Ross changed his mind because he got sad they weren’t going to get a top player, and made them trade back up going against their initial long agreed upon plan. Just speculating, but after hearing he wanted to go after Watson, that chain of events with Ross forcing them to go back up into the top 10 kind of makes the most sense.

Totally agree and he doesn’t take himself too seriously either. Can’t leave the owners off that list though. Can you imagine if Beane was in Miami and said we need to do a full tear down? That was presented to Ross by several GMs and he said no. They finally sort of did it two years ago, but then spent a ton of money in free agency the next year instead of building in the draft and using free agency to sign undervalued flexible pieces that would succeed in your scheme on short term deals. Not to hijack the thread or your post, but what they did with Tua is the opposite of how the Bills went 100% all in behind Allen on day 1 and never waivered. It’s just super refreshing that they are able to build something so strong while also driving a growth mindset and team based approach…very rare in that sport as well.

any word on your sleuthing? I’m f5ing like a mad man over here!