DrDawkinstein Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Thats right Dr Dank--and thank God---cuz if we had only one of them--and they went down with an injury--welcome to the Xavier Omon show.... more like "oh man" amirite?!?! i think we'd have to call rhodes back at that point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Why does everyone keep thinking he can't carry the load? He is 215 lbs (same as Lynch, though 2 inches taller). For me it's not a matter of not thinking he can do it for a year as much as preferring his career not be effectively over in 2011 in a Larry Johnson sort of way. I thought that everyone begging to get Lynch 25 carries every game his rookie year was insane for the same reason, since that team was never going anywhere. It's a pretty easy decision to use both when they're healthy/available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I think it would be great to bench Lynch for one game and let him stew. When he finally gets his chance he'll be playing with a chip on his shoulder. Then watch out. Are you listening Dick? This is how great coaches motivate their players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I think it would be great to bench Lynch for one game and let him stew. When he finally gets his chance he'll be playing with a chip on his shoulder. Then watch out. Are you listening Dick? This is how great coaches motivate their players. cutting off their nose to spite their face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endzone Animal Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Bench Lynch Has a nice ring to it, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heels20X6 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Bench Lynch Has a nice ring to it, don't you think? No. Take your stupid crusade elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I think it would be great to bench Lynch for one game and let him stew. When he finally gets his chance he'll be playing with a chip on his shoulder. Then watch out. Are you listening Dick? This is how great coaches motivate their players. So... he won't already be eager to play after his 3-game suspension? Why don't they just sit him until the bye, I bet he'll be really motivated then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I think it would be great to bench Lynch for one game and let him stew. When he finally gets his chance he'll be playing with a chip on his shoulder. Then watch out. Are you listening Dick? This is how great coaches motivate their players. Are you a highly-paid, fabulously successful NFL Head Coaching Consultant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I love the fact that all those who are saying Jackson should start are using his games this year compared to Marshawn's from the last two as a comparison. The offense was so amazing the last 2 years that both OCs are gone, and we have more than one actual deep threat for Ds to worry about this season. I applaud Jackson's efforts that last 2 weeks. When your starter is not in the game, that is exactly what you want your backup to do, but until I see how ML performs in this offense I am not writing him off as the starter. He averaged 80-90 yard per game with 8 men in the box, and he caught 47 passes last year, so I'm not convinced that his vision or hands are as bad as what people remember. I'll agree that his blitz pickup is lacking, but c'mon, the guy's a player... I don't get why so many people are panning him. The whole dancing behind the line thing, if I recall, had a lot to do with the defenders in the backfield or the OL getting no push a majority of the time. Hard to average 4.1 yards per carry for the year when your not moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I love the fact that all those who are saying Jackson should start are using his games this year compared to Marshawn's from the last two as a comparison. The offense was so amazing the last 2 years that both OCs are gone, and we have more than one actual deep threat for Ds to worry about this season. I applaud Jackson's efforts that last 2 weeks. When your starter is not in the game, that is exactly what you want your backup to do, but until I see how ML performs in this offense I am not writing him off as the starter. He averaged 80-90 yard per game with 8 men in the box, and he caught 47 passes last year, so I'm not convinced that his vision or hands are as bad as what people remember. I'll agree that his blitz pickup is lacking, but c'mon, the guy's a player... I don't get why so many people are panning him. The whole dancing behind the line thing, if I recall, had a lot to do with the defenders in the backfield or the OL getting no push a majority of the time. Hard to average 4.1 yards per carry for the year when your not moving forward. Except for a few haters who have revealed themselves, I think almost everyone would love to see Marshawn play really well upon returning. In this and the sister threads, some people have reserved final judgment as to who is better until they see what Marshawn can do under Alex Van Pelt. I think Freddie's the better back but I've been wrong before. But to respond to your above bolded point, Freddie is being evaluated on over 30 games worth of evidence (regular season plus preseason) he's compiled with the Bills since 2007. He was also brilliant in the season finale last year against New England with 136 yards against a team stacking the run (remember the weather?). He also had a 100 yard rushing game in the 2007 season. In addition Jackson's yards per rush and yards per reception are both better than Lynch's (they both came to the Bills in 2007). In that time the yards per carry has been 4.1 ypc for Lynch to 4.6 ypc for Jackson. Yards per reception are 7.4 ypr for Lynch and 9.2 ypr for Jackson. So there is a lot of data to debate who one thinks is the better back. My opinion is based upon my evaluation of their play. But the numbers also back me up in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endzone Animal Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 No. Take your stupid crusade elsewhere. Having an opinion that is shared by the majority is not a crusade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endzone Animal Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Except for a few haters who have revealed themselves, I think almost everyone would love to see Marshawn play really well upon returning. In this and the sister threads, some people have reserved final judgment as to who is better until they see what Marshawn can do under Alex Van Pelt. I think Freddie's the better back but I've been wrong before. But to respond to your above bolded point, Freddie is being evaluated on over 30 games worth of evidence (regular season plus preseason) he's compiled with the Bills since 2007. He was also brilliant in the season finale last year against New England with 136 yards against a team stacking the run (remember the weather?). He also had a 100 yard rushing game in the 2007 season. In addition Jackson's yards per rush and yards per reception are both better than Lynch's (they both came to the Bills in 2007). In that time the yards per carry has been 4.1 ypc for Lynch to 4.6 ypc for Jackson. Yards per reception are 7.4 ypr for Lynch and 9.2 ypr for Jackson. So there is a lot of data to debate who one thinks is the better back. My opinion is based upon my evaluation of their play. But the numbers also back me up in this case. One other stat: Lynch has never rushed for 163 yards in a game in his professional career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I'm happy to have both, no need to make any moves here yet. I think there's no doubt Marshawn is the starter in Week 4, but Freddy has earned a lot more touches than he had before. Play them both, and ride the hot hand. If Freddy proves to be consistently more effective than Marshawn in this offense, then maybe you have a case for starting him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 running backs take a pounding you need two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Dont get me wrong I love Fast Freddie but Marshawn is BEAST MODE I would like to see how many yards Marshawn gets behind this line since he wont see those 8 man front like he did during his first 2 years here. Miami game is gonna be warm so they split carries in that game. No doubt Jackson has earned more playing time, but the team is better with Marshawn than without him. How quickly we forget Beast Mode during the Browns game last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 T.O. in the B-LO Come on---TO trots 3 steps past the line of scrimmage and stops when they run the ball. No safety is covering him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Jackson has as much football instincts as any player on the team. It's hard for a losing team to bench one of the only winners on it. Ok, I know Fred Jackson is pretty good, but what makes him more of a winner than anyone else on this team? Last time I checked football was a team game, and since the only NFL team he is played for is Buffalo, there are several players that have been here during the same time frame, so they have the same records? What makes some players on a team winners and others losers? There are a lot of reasons you can justify Jackson playing, but to say he is more of a winner than other teammates is as idiotic of a statement as can be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Except for a few haters who have revealed themselves, I think almost everyone would love to see Marshawn play really well upon returning. In this and the sister threads, some people have reserved final judgment as to who is better until they see what Marshawn can do under Alex Van Pelt. I think Freddie's the better back but I've been wrong before. But to respond to your above bolded point, Freddie is being evaluated on over 30 games worth of evidence (regular season plus preseason) he's compiled with the Bills since 2007. He was also brilliant in the season finale last year against New England with 136 yards against a team stacking the run (remember the weather?). He also had a 100 yard rushing game in the 2007 season. In addition Jackson's yards per rush and yards per reception are both better than Lynch's (they both came to the Bills in 2007). In that time the yards per carry has been 4.1 ypc for Lynch to 4.6 ypc for Jackson. Yards per reception are 7.4 ypr for Lynch and 9.2 ypr for Jackson. So there is a lot of data to debate who one thinks is the better back. My opinion is based upon my evaluation of their play. But the numbers also back me up in this case. There are players on the Bills that I like more than others, but when they play for the Bills I want all of them to do well, it only helps the team. Anyone who doesn't want Lynch (or anyone else) to play well is not a true Bills fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I think it would be great to bench Lynch for one game and let him stew. When he finally gets his chance he'll be playing with a chip on his shoulder. Then watch out. Are you listening Dick? This is how great coaches motivate their players. Alright, we have finally found Jauron's successor and the guy to take us to the promise land. I already see the Buffalo News front page "Rockinon the successor to Jauron." How about if they make Lynch stand in the corner with his nose on the wall for the next game, or write 1,000 time that I won't carry guns anymore? Dude, your an idiot, you don't think Lynch is already itching to get on the field? No matter how much of a thug and an moron he is for his off the field actions, he wouldn't have gotten this far if he wasn't a fierce competitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThereIsNoDog Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Come on---TO trots 3 steps past the line of scrimmage and stops when they run the ball. No safety is covering him. Nice grasp on the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 running backs take a pounding you need two. nobody is debating that we dont need lynch. i think the debate is more about who should be the primary back. lynch had 250 attempts last year to jackson's 130. my take has been that those numbers need to be reversed this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heels20X6 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 nobody is debating that we dont need lynch. i think the debate is more about who should be the primary back. lynch had 250 attempts last year to jackson's 130. my take has been that those numbers need to be reversed this year. I think with the running game as effective as its been (and remember last year, where Stupid Schonert would outright abandon the run in games), we should only hope the Bills up the run attempts to about 500 this year. As for Lynch, he's going to need two or three games just to get his game legs back. Til then the coaching staff should give Freddie the ball on a 2:1 ratio and over the three games shift it to where Freddie is getting the ball 60% of the carries. If by game 10, Freddie's showing some wear and tear, shift it towards Marshawn. Let the play of the each back dictate who gets more carries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Omon would be a help. Lynch would be a FORCE. But again, I say, if you can get a real defensive passrusher for him, trade him and deal with Omon as your backup. It wouldn't kill us, after all, and the defense would finally look consistently better. Right, because teams trade pass rushers all the time. If a team needs a RB they will just draft one next year. Lynch is one screw up from a long suspension. Not easy to trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 You DONT take Jackson out. As AVP alluded to in the News...they will be getting both on the field at some capacity in the future. I could care less about this 'controversy' that some seem to want to start on this board. Most NFL teams use the 'running-back-by committee' approach to much success. Indeed, after reading Brian Billick's book, More Than a Game, it makes increasingly sane sense to use that approach to prolong the health of your players throughout the year as well as prolonging their careers. Now, the bigger issue IMO is what happens with the RT position and Brad Butler? We won't know until later the severity of his knee injury, but with John Runyan having made a visit last week, and unless he was picked up by someone, do the Bills sign him? If they do, what happens to Butler or Runyan when Butler returns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hansen Forever Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 hey I am all for keeping Lynch, but I think the Bills need to use Lynch to spell Jackson and not the other way around... I completely agree. Jackson hits the holes hard, and looks alot like Thurman. Marshawn is good, but doesn't play with desire. He should be the backup and spell Freddy. Oman didn't look so bad either. They should have used him more to give Freddy a breather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I completely agree. Jackson hits the holes hard, and looks alot like Thurman. Marshawn is good, but doesn't play with desire. He should be the backup and spell Freddy. Oman didn't look so bad either. They should have used him more to give Freddy a breather. I am not saying who should start either way, but to say Marshawn doesn't play with desire is downright dumb. You obviously have never seen him run, he never goes down on the first hit. His wheels never stop when he is running, you gotta be kidding with that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeBill Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Are people forgetting how good Marshawn is? Oh no, we are in the same predicament that Jacksonville was in with Fred Taylor and MJD. There are worse things to complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I am not saying who should start either way, but to say Marshawn doesn't play with desire is downright dumb. You obviously have never seen him run, he never goes down on the first hit. His wheels never stop when he is running, you gotta be kidding with that statement. Totally agree. Marshawn plays with some serious intensity. As I said in another thread a thunder and lightning problem isn't bad. Hell even a two-back set would be another nice thing to confuse a defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Is this thread really still going on? I love Bills fans, but you can't drink the Kool aid so easily. One of our players has two great games and you are ready to take carries away from the best RB in our division? Jackson is a great RB. I think he has proven that he is worthy of getting consideration for a starting job no doubt. He has wonderful field vision and great instincts. Plus, he is a work horse. This is nothing against Fred. But Marshawn Lynch is a premier RB. He is also 23 years old. And has rushed for 2,151 yards in two seasons. At a clip of 4.1 yards a carry. Behind a line that was incapable of run blocking. Does he always take the best cuts? No. But Lynch is our starting running back. I expect Jackson to get far more carries after his recent performances, but you don't give him more carries than Lynch. but this is how some superstars are born.... montana goes down, steve young starts hof career don majkowski goes down, bret favre starts a hall of fame career. bledsoe goes down, brady starts a hof career trent green goes down, kurt warner starts a hof career (kurt warner is bolded because his story relates to jacksons the most out of this group) now i know the guys above are all qb's, and by no means am i saying fred jackson can or will make the hall of fame, but one guy's misstep is another golden opportunity........... and some players tend to grab it and run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heels20X6 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 but this is how some superstars are born.... montana goes down, steve young starts hof career don majkowski goes down, bret favre starts a hall of fame career. bledsoe goes down, brady starts a hof career trent green goes down, kurt warner starts a hof career (kurt warner is bolded because his story relates to jacksons the most out of this group) now i know the guys above are all qb's, and by no means am i saying fred jackson can or will make the hall of fame, but one guy's misstep is another golden opportunity........... and some players tend to grab it and run You've listed QBs...not a good comparison because very, very few teams play both QBs in a game. Running game is totally different. Freddie is doing great right now but as some others have pointed out. Marshawn is a great back too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABills08 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 but this is how some superstars are born.... montana goes down, steve young starts hof career don majkowski goes down, bret favre starts a hall of fame career. bledsoe goes down, brady starts a hof career trent green goes down, kurt warner starts a hof career (kurt warner is bolded because his story relates to jacksons the most out of this group) now i know the guys above are all qb's, and by no means am i saying fred jackson can or will make the hall of fame, but one guy's misstep is another golden opportunity........... and some players tend to grab it and run I think that is fair, though as you note, RBs and QBs are hard to compare. That being said, we (of all teams) know that the examples you give are the exception, not the rule. I love Fred Jackson. I am happy he will be on our team for the next 4 years. That being said, as the top teams in the NFL have shown, it is imperative to any solid team that there are two running backs on the squad who can compete. We all want Fred and Marshawn to each get a shot at 27 carries a game, but that isn't going to be the case. Despite that, to have the option to use both of them in a game plan makes our team SO much better. When Fred and Lynch are in the backfield, and TO and Evans are on the outside, teams are going to have to play the Bills very honestly. I like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I think that is fair, though as you note, RBs and QBs are hard to compare. That being said, we (of all teams) know that the examples you give are the exception, not the rule. I love Fred Jackson. I am happy he will be on our team for the next 4 years. That being said, as the top teams in the NFL have shown, it is imperative to any solid team that there are two running backs on the squad who can compete. We all want Fred and Marshawn to each get a shot at 27 carries a game, but that isn't going to be the case. Despite that, to have the option to use both of them in a game plan makes our team SO much better. When Fred and Lynch are in the backfield, and TO and Evans are on the outside, teams are going to have to play the Bills very honestly. I like that. agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Speaking of Lynch, did I read right that while his suspension is for 3 games, the Bills won't play him until the 5th game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Speaking of Lynch, did I read right that while his suspension is for 3 games, the Bills won't play him until the 5th game? 1st i've heard of that. i think he'll play some in game 4, but they will most likely work him back into where ever he's going to be put in the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Not sure this has been mentioned yet. But perhaps our new OL is very good at opening up holes. I have really liked the patience, cut backs and his ability to find holes from Jackson. But we do need to see how Lynch performs behind this OL. In week 4, Lynch will be brought in for a few plays. He may have his starting job back in week 5 with the onus to prove that he deserves it. But I do agree with other posters that no matter which way the percent of carries falls, the team will get the most production from the position through the length of the season with both backs splitting carries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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