Captain Quint Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I'm sure it will be playing all morning, but its coming up on SC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I'm sure it will be playing all morning, but its coming up on SC. They have rarely, IIRC, had a problem getting the first round pick in on time. What the hell is the problem!! I think Whitner may not have signed on time but I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I'm hoping this is more to the fact that we're starting earlier than most teams, due to the HOF game. Many draftees are -as yet- unsigned, but the annual big week of signings is only 2 weeks away. When the picks just after Maybin and just before him sign, everyone will know the very close ballbark he will likely sign for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I'm aware that Maybin isn't holding out yet, but I just have something to say. I will NEVER understand players who engage in a contractual holdout, especially before their rookie season. These guys should be so fuggin excited that they have the opportunity to play in the NFL that they should be nervously counting down the days until training camp, NOT squabbling over how many millions of dollars they'll be making in their first few seasons. I know that their D-bag agents have a lot to do with it, but I'm just trying to imagine myself as an NFL rookie and I know that there's a 0% chance I'd be holding out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Quint Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 I'm hoping this is more to the fact that we're starting earlier than most teams, due to the HOF game. Many draftees are -as yet- unsigned, but the annual big week of signings is only 2 weeks away. When the picks just after Maybin and just before him sign, everyone will know the very close ballbark he will likely sign for. I think that is the case, too. I haven't seen the story yet, but it makes sense to me that starting a week early will lead to delays in the signings. However, I'm sure that the spin on the story will be focused on the trigger word "holdout". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I think that is the case, too. I haven't seen the story yet, but it makes sense to me that starting a week early will lead to delays in the signings. However, I'm sure that the spin on the story will be focused on the trigger word "holdout". And I'm sure ESPN will report that the holdout is due to T.O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsGuyInMalta Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 As much as I'd like to have Maybin in camp on-time, it's pretty much been established he will be a rotational pass rusher his first season. So hey, a couple of missed practices won't kill us. Wood and Levitre however NEED to be in camp for every single practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I'm aware that Maybin isn't holding out yet, but I just have something to say. I will NEVER understand players who engage in a contractual holdout, especially before their rookie season. These guys should be so fuggin excited that they have the opportunity to play in the NFL that they should be nervously counting down the days until training camp, NOT squabbling over how many millions of dollars they'll be making in their first few seasons. I know that their D-bag agents have a lot to do with it, but I'm just trying to imagine myself as an NFL rookie and I know that there's a 0% chance I'd be holding out. that's right!! these guys should just be happy to be here. the Bills did them a big favor by drafting them at all. You can be the Bills feel they should be taking a discount to sign with the Bills,especially since the front office vacation is being disrupted to work on these contracts during the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Starting camp early goofs us up a bit - few first round picks want to sign before the guy behind them signs, so they don't get 'ripped off' if the next guy gets a better deal. And only the Stafford and Sanchez have signed among all first rounders so far, so the market isn't really set yet at all. But on the other hand, if Maybin signs around the same time picks #10 and #12 sign, then it's really all a wash, right? He misses a week of Bills camp, but has just as many practices between his first and opening day as the guys whose camps start later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 that's right!! these guys should just be happy to be here. the Bills did them a big favor by drafting them at all. You can be the Bills feel they should be taking a discount to sign with the Bills,especially since the front office vacation is being disrupted to work on these contracts during the summer. I wasn't really talking about the Bills or Maybin (yet). I was talking about the Cedric Bensons of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I'm aware that Maybin isn't holding out yet, but I just have something to say. I will NEVER understand players who engage in a contractual holdout, especially before their rookie season. These guys should be so fuggin excited that they have the opportunity to play in the NFL that they should be nervously counting down the days until training camp, NOT squabbling over how many millions of dollars they'll be making in their first few seasons. I know that their D-bag agents have a lot to do with it, but I'm just trying to imagine myself as an NFL rookie and I know that there's a 0% chance I'd be holding out. I think I heard before that biggest part of rookie contracts isn't money but the minutia like how many years, incentives yada, yada, yada... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWings Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I think I heard before that biggest part of rookie contracts isn't money but the minutia like how many years, incentives yada, yada, yada... And that's the biggest problem with this system. It's ridiculous how NFL rookies get so much with their first contracts. I agree with Sage...they're not proven and they should just be thrilled that they're in the league. I also agree that the agents have almost everything to do with it, but I will never understand why teams shell out so much for someone who hasn't played a down. The NBA actually does it right...rookie salary caps. If the NFL did this, I'd almost guarantee most rookies would be in camp on time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I think I heard before that biggest part of rookie contracts isn't money but the minutia like how many years, incentives yada, yada, yada... Yes, I realize there are a lot of intricacies...but just try to put yourself in the shoes of an unsigned NFL rookie. Here's what I would do: I'd call up my agent and say "I'm not too familiar with the business side of these operations, so here's what I want you to do. Just negotiate a deal that you think is fair and pretty close to market value for my draft slot. Give me a call when I can sign on the dotted line. If I miss a day of training camp, you're fired." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fewell733 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Hold out? Isn't it just that we don't have him under contract yet? Did we consider McKelvin a hold out last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I'm aware that Maybin isn't holding out yet, but I just have something to say. I will NEVER understand players who engage in a contractual holdout, especially before their rookie season. These guys should be so fuggin excited that they have the opportunity to play in the NFL that they should be nervously counting down the days until training camp, NOT squabbling over how many millions of dollars they'll be making in their first few seasons. I know that their D-bag agents have a lot to do with it, but I'm just trying to imagine myself as an NFL rookie and I know that there's a 0% chance I'd be holding out. FWIW, and you may already know this, the NFLPA doesn't allow them to attend without a contract due to insurance obligations (don't know the exact verbage or how it works though). I think the onus goes on the team here for not opening dialogue sooner, but I can understand why they haven't. This is a difficult year to sign 1st round picks (only 2 have signed; Stafford and Sanchez) b/c with the looming CBA battle, nobody knows if there will be a cap beyond this season and how that will affect rookie deals. Thus, the slotting that normally takes place with rookie picks hsan't yet begun. I have a feeling that once one rookie (that isn't a QB) signs, many more will follow. There's no excuse, however, for not getting your 2nd round and 4th round picks signed by now...again, that's gotta go on the team IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBlood Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Here is the details... http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/story/741095.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Hold out? Isn't it just that we don't have him under contract yet? Did we consider McKelvin a hold out last year? Not considered a holdout until camp starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Yes, I realize there are a lot of intricacies...but just try to put yourself in the shoes of an unsigned NFL rookie. Here's what I would do: I'd call up my agent and say "I'm not too familiar with the business side of these operations, so here's what I want you to do. Just negotiate a deal that you think is fair and pretty close to market value for my draft slot. Give me a call when I can sign on the dotted line. If I miss a day of training camp, you're fired." But this is part of the problem. The other rookies drafted around Maybin haven't been slotted yet, so the market isn't set. It's still a business and what if AM blows out his knee out during this contract? It could be his last contract, so his agent should try and get him every possible $ they can. But it is way too early to worry about this. Once a couple 1st rounders get signed, the ball gets rolling. Plus, we are starting really early so if he missed a week, it won't be the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly McButterpants Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Why would ESPN single out Maybin as not reporting to camp on time?? - Only 2 First-rounders have been signed - camp hasn't opened yet This is a non-story. And why are people assuming that the Bills haven't even begun negotiations with Maybin's agent? This whole thread is one big WTF?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Yes, I realize there are a lot of intricacies...but just try to put yourself in the shoes of an unsigned NFL rookie. Here's what I would do: I'd call up my agent and say "I'm not too familiar with the business side of these operations, so here's what I want you to do. Just negotiate a deal that you think is fair and pretty close to market value for my draft slot. Give me a call when I can sign on the dotted line. If I miss a day of training camp, you're fired." So you don't mind being hated by every rookie in the league, including your own teammates you just took money from, for your first five years in the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffFromBuffalo Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 that's right!! these guys should just be happy to be here. the Bills did them a big favor by drafting them at all. You can be the Bills feel they should be taking a discount to sign with the Bills,especially since the front office vacation is being disrupted to work on these contracts during the summer. The money part of this discussion has nothing to do with an individual player's signing. It all comes down to how much the player in front of and behing the player in question signs for. And if a player has never signed a contract, I believe it's inappropriate to call them a holdout. That is done when a player already has a contract. The picks will all be signed when the dollars have been determined by others, so placing the blame on the agents/players, and even the Bills is shortsighted at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Just one question: Okay, so the Bills are allegedly waiting for other teams to sign their picks so they can "slot" their players. Fine. But who are the other teams waiting for? Meaning: Just this once, because the Bills will be in camp before any of those other teams, can't they work out acceptable contracts for their players without waiting to see what everyone else does? Lead, not follow? I realize that goes against the deeply-ingrained culture at One Bills Drive, but it's worth a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 There doesn't seem to be anything unusual or to get too upset about, here "Top draft pick misses a little of the early part of camp." Heavens to Murgatroyd! Wake me when something really happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Just one question: Okay, so the Bills are allegedly waiting for other teams to sign their picks so they can "slot" their players. Fine. But who are the other teams waiting for? Meaning: Just this once, because the Bills will be in camp before any of those other teams, can't they work out acceptable contracts for their players without waiting to see what everyone else does? Lead, not follow? I realize that goes against the deeply-ingrained culture at One Bills Drive, but it's worth a thought. Agreed, but it could also be the agents who are waiting. They probably don't want to be the 1st one to sign and get criticized if some think the contract is too low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Heavens to Murgatroyd! That's 'mergatroid', Your Belligerence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 There doesn't seem to be anything unusual or to get too upset about, here "Top draft pick misses a little of the early part of camp." Heavens to Murgatroyd! Wake me when something really happens. The Senator Posted Today, 10:09 AM Heavens to Murgatroyd! That's 'mergatroid', Your Belligerence. I'm a poor defenseless lion-type even. Exit. Stage left. It's hard to get good Snagglepuss anymore. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 They have rarely, IIRC, had a problem getting the first round pick in on time. What the hell is the problem!! I think Whitner may not have signed on time but I'm not sure. IIRC, this happens almost every year. If he's not there Monday, then he'll be late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Agreed, but it could also be the agents who are waiting. They probably don't want to be the 1st one to sign and get criticized if some think the contract is too low. Valid point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Quint Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 Just one question: Okay, so the Bills are allegedly waiting for other teams to sign their picks so they can "slot" their players. Fine. But who are the other teams waiting for? Meaning: Just this once, because the Bills will be in camp before any of those other teams, can't they work out acceptable contracts for their players without waiting to see what everyone else does? Lead, not follow? I realize that goes against the deeply-ingrained culture at One Bills Drive, but it's worth a thought. Thats the first thing that I thought when I heard this, but figured that there was something that I didn't know about that had to happen first. It makes all the sense in the world this year for Buffalo/Tennessee to set the precedent. My question is does this happen every year to the teams that are in the HOF game? The Bills were in it in '89, but the game was alot different 20 yrs ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 That's 'mergatroid', Your Belligerence. Says you! http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/heavens...murgatroyd.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snagglepuss http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...07123703AA9IoCE http://www.toonopedia.com/snaggle.htm http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-hea1.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Thats the first thing that I thought when I heard this, but figured that there was something that I didn't know about that had to happen first. It makes all the sense in the world this year for Buffalo/Tennessee to set the precedent. My question is does this happen every year to the teams that are in the HOF game? The Bills were in it in '89, but the game was alot different 20 yrs ago. Good question, meaning one to which I don't know the answer. Washington and Indy played the HOF Game last year. I'll check their rookie signings and report back. Washington didn't have a first-rounder, but loaded up on passcatchers in the second with Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, and Fred Davis. Redskins | D. Thomas agrees to terms - from www.KFFL.comFri, 18 Jul 2008 09:09:20 -0700 John Clayton, of ESPN.com, reports the Washington Redskins have agreed to terms with second-round draft pick WR Devin Thomas on a four-year contract worth $4.8 million that includes roughly $2.7 million in guarantees, according to a source. ESPN.com, July 14, 2008:The Redskins broke what could be a logjam of potential unsigned second-round picks by signing wide receiver Malcolm Kelly to a four-year, $3.36 million deal. Included in the deal is $1.655 million of guarantees. Kelly, the 51st selection in the draft, becomes the second second-rounder to reach an agreement. On July 3, the Bears signed running back Matt Forte to a four-year deal. Kelly is the seventh of 10 Redskins draft choices to sign. ESPN.com, July 21, 2008:ASHBURN, Va. -- The Washington Redskins and rookie tight end Fred Davis agreed to a $3.5 million, four-year contract on Saturday, a day before training camp opens. Indy also traded away their first-round selection. They took G Mike Pollak in the second, LB Phillip Wheeler in the third. The Associated Press, July 23, 2008:INDIANAPOLIS (AP) -- On the eve of training camp, the Colts agreed to terms with five draft picks including their top choice, offensive lineman Mike Pollak, in a dash to get all nine draft choices into camp on time. Three other rookies remained unsigned. Pollak agreed to his deal with Indianapolis late Wednesday afternoon but had not yet signed the contract and terms were not disclosed. Pollak's agent, Ken Zuckerman, confirmed the deal in a text message to The Associated Press but was not immediately available for comment after boarding a plane. The Colts also reached agreements with fourth-round pick Jacob Tamme, a tight end from Kentucky; fifth-round pick Marcus Howard, a defensive end out of Georgia; and two sixth-round picks -- Mike Hart, a running back from Michigan, and Steve Justice, an offensive lineman from Wake Forest. All of the players are expected to check in at Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology on Thursday when the Colts report to camp. Practices begin Friday. So the deals were done, but on the brink of training camp. Typical. That, and the extra week built into the schedule this year, are why I'm not overly concerned ... yet. Would be nice to have everyone on the field by the end of the weekend, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Says you! http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/heavens...murgatroyd.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snagglepuss http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...07123703AA9IoCE http://www.toonopedia.com/snaggle.htm http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-hea1.htm Oooohhhhh... geek fight with citations! This is more fun than the AHA. I will get my popcorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Oooohhhhh... geek fight with citations! This is more fun than the AHA. I will get my popcorn. The Senator is smart. I think he will realize there is only one perfect response to my post. EDIT: Oops. I see K-9 already introduced that perfect response into the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 The Senator is smart. I think he will realize there is only one perfect response to my post. EDIT: Oops. I see K-9 already introduced that perfect response into the thread. Heavens to Mugatroyd...I was wrong! My apologies, Your Intoxigence!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I'm a poor defenseless lion-type even. Exit. Stage left. It's hard to get good Snagglepuss anymore. GO BILLS!!! Excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Heavens to Mugatroyd...I was wrong! My apologies, Your Intoxigence!!!! Full disclosure: I initially typed "murgatroid" into Google, before finding the proper spelling. Exit, Stage Left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Yes, I realize there are a lot of intricacies...but just try to put yourself in the shoes of an unsigned NFL rookie. Here's what I would do: I'd call up my agent and say "I'm not too familiar with the business side of these operations, so here's what I want you to do. Just negotiate a deal that you think is fair and pretty close to market value for my draft slot. Give me a call when I can sign on the dotted line. If I miss a day of training camp, you're fired." Agreed. I've heard something like that about some players, just not as harshly. But this is part of the problem. The other rookies drafted around Maybin haven't been slotted yet, so the market isn't set. It's still a business and what if AM blows out his knee out during this contract? It could be his last contract, so his agent should try and get him every possible $ they can. But it is way too early to worry about this. Once a couple 1st rounders get signed, the ball gets rolling. Plus, we are starting really early so if he missed a week, it won't be the end of the world. This whole slotting thing is taken much to seriously. First, it doesn't go 1, 2 3, 4..... every year. Teams do sign players without knowing what's before and after. If they did it exclusively that way then nobody would sign because they wouldn't know what comes after their contract. The money is pretty much etched in stone. It's a modest increase from the year before at that draft position. As I said before I think it's a lot more the minutia. Just one question: Okay, so the Bills are allegedly waiting for other teams to sign their picks so they can "slot" their players. Fine. But who are the other teams waiting for? Meaning: Just this once, because the Bills will be in camp before any of those other teams, can't they work out acceptable contracts for their players without waiting to see what everyone else does? Lead, not follow? I realize that goes against the deeply-ingrained culture at One Bills Drive, but it's worth a thought. That's 'mergatroid', Your Belligerence. Nuh-uh! I'm a poor defenseless lion-type even. Exit. Stage left. It's hard to get good Snagglepuss anymore. GO BILLS!!! Maybe for you! I aint lion. What the hell was Snagglepuss anyway? If he was a lion he'd have had a big mane. He was pink and had a short mane that was also pink. He also had that funny way of talking. I'm thinking he was a gay cougar or something. Maybe a gay lion who was trying to look like a female lion. Kinda like a transvestite lion. Link Says you! http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/heavens...murgatroyd.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snagglepuss http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...07123703AA9IoCE http://www.toonopedia.com/snaggle.htm http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-hea1.htm Oooohhhhh... geek fight with citations! This is more fun than the AHA. I will get my popcorn. Yeah, almost gets you as excited as a Star Trek convention. The Senator is smart. I think he will realize there is only one perfect response to my post. EDIT: Oops. I see K-9 already introduced that perfect response into the thread. Not really, no. far more appropriate. I just have to say this, because Bills fans are once again going to rail against a player's contractual status based on a bunch of platitudes like "He should be happy he is going to be in the NFL" and all of this other stuff. Can I remind you all of 3 things before the Maybin bashing gets out of control A) We are arguably the cheapest team in the league. We rarely overpay for FA and we almost never (for the exception of Lee Evans), sign our premier players to long term extensions. We will NOT sign Maybin until his slot value has been defined in this years class. In other words we will be waiting until a large chunk of the top 10 sign before sign Aaron. We also are going to wait until Tyson Jackson signs. Can I blame the Bills for that? No. Can I blame Maybin for hoping to pressure them into signing him earlier? No. We are talking about the Bills here. They never want to pay anyone. B) Maybin's closest advisor appears to be a guy whos career ended 5 years early bc of injuries. It probably cost him 20-30 million dollars. Do we not think that he has whispers in his ears saying not head to training camp until you have your money? C) In general, this is how the NFL works. Players don't just walk on to the field as a rookie and say, I don't care what I get paid, I just wanna play! So stop kidding yourselves. If any of us were talented and lucky enough to be a professional athlete, I'm sure we would all seek to establish ourselves as well paid just as much as we would want to establish ourselves as hard working. Maybin has already shown himself as ready to work hard, so lets not push him out of town already for wanting to get paid. God, I'm so sick of seeing that. Stroud, Schobel, Dockery, TO and they offered Peters the biggest contract in Bills history. I'm sure I'm forgetting some others too. How's overpaying working for Dan Snyder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 As much as I'd like to have Maybin in camp on-time, it's pretty much been established he will be a rotational pass rusher his first season. So hey, a couple of missed practices won't kill us. Wood and Levitre however NEED to be in camp for every single practice. Yes I agree totally with this post. They need to come to terms more with Wood and Levitre more than Maybin If the bills have to set the market value for where these guys where drafted so be it. They cannot afford to wait until some other team to sign the surrounding drafts pick this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 99% of the problem is a crap system. For what it's worth, our opponents in the HOF game also haven't signed their first rounder. Basically, I'd say it's not really a problem until the last team's training camp opens. Then we can talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Lieutenant Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 With our luck watch Michael Crabtree and Knowshon Moreno hold out until early September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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