depth at quarterback

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Am I the only one out here who is terrified that, god forbid, Trent goes down with a serious injury this season? Our depth at quarterback is almost laughable. We picked up Ryan Fitzpatrick who displayed glimpses of mediocrity last year for the Bungles (I'm not impressed). Coming off the bench we have Gibran Hamdan. I know he's good buddies with Trent and that's really sweet........but I'm pretty certain that he would not be able to step up and lead this team. Finally, we have Matt Baker, "the human paperweight." Enough said.

 

My main point being.....why didn't we take a shot on a "groomable" QB in rounds 4-7? In lieu of selecting 3 defensive backs in the latter rounds we could have had a guy like Graham Harrell (went undrafted), Stephen McGee, Nate Davis, etc... I know we had to address a lot of needs in this draft, but I really was hoping we would take a QB somewhere along the line.

 

I like our early round picks.

 

I am really excited about the potential of out o-line.

 

I'm a little confused about what they were thinking in rounds 5-7.

[apuszczalowski]

They didn't take a later round QB because hose QB's probably weren't any better then what the Bills already have on their roster at this point.

[Glass To The Arson]

Any QB that fails with our offense...is a failure...

 

I'm just worried about defense now

[Pete]

I like the Fitzpatrick signing a lot. He looked alright from what I saw

[Dan]

I've got one word for you.... the Chroisen One!

 

Fear not.

[Kelly the Dog]

There are two kinds of back-up quarterbacks a team can have at the #2 spot. The kind who can take over for a half or so, and the kind who can take over for half a season or so. We have the first kind. We're in trouble if Trent goes down for any serious amount of time, IMO.

[Tortured Soul]

If you're concerned about Fitzpatrick's ability to step in, I can understand that. But how would that be remedied with a late-round "groomable" prospect? Wouldn't you prefer someone with four year's experience this season?

[generaLee83]

Am I the only one out here who is terrified that, god forbid, Trent goes down with a serious injury this season? Our depth at quarterback is almost laughable. We picked up Ryan Fitzpatrick who displayed glimpses of mediocrity last year for the Bungles (I'm not impressed). Coming off the bench we have Gibran Hamdan. I know he's good buddies with Trent and that's really sweet........but I'm pretty certain that he would not be able to step up and lead this team. Finally, we have Matt Baker, "the human paperweight." Enough said.

 

My main point being.....why didn't we take a shot on a "groomable" QB in rounds 4-7? In lieu of selecting 3 defensive backs in the latter rounds we could have had a guy like Graham Harrell (went undrafted), Stephen McGee, Nate Davis, etc... I know we had to address a lot of needs in this draft, but I really was hoping we would take a QB somewhere along the line.

 

I like our early round picks.

 

I am really excited about the potential of out o-line.

 

I'm a little confused about what they were thinking in rounds 5-7.

 

Your avatar is hilarious and yes I agree that the Bills should have been thinking QB in the later rounds.

 

At least Fitzpatrick has played before albeit terribly.

[Fewell733]

Fitzpatrick got radically better as last season progressed. The first or second game he started he looked like the worst starting qb i'd ever seen. When I watched the Bengals again toward the end of the season I was very surprised to see that he seemed like a totally different quarterback - very competent, comfortable in the offense, accurate. Apparently the Harvard guy learns quickly.

 

I think we're in a better place this year at QB than last. Losman could provide a spark off the bench with a bomb or two- but its become pretty clear that he's not a guy you can really win with in the league as a starter. Fitz, I think, can actually follow what an offense is trying to do. I think they call that "execution."

[Flbillsfan#1]

I like the Fitzpatrick signing a lot. He looked alright from what I saw

4-12 is alright? The Bengals season was OVER when Palmer went down. If Trent goes down for ANY LENGTH of time, The Bills season will be OVER. I expect Fitzpatrick to give the Bills the same he gave the Bengals last season...............................NOTHING.

[Bill from NYC]

If you're concerned about Fitzpatrick's ability to step in, I can understand that. But how would that be remedied with a late-round "groomable" prospect? Wouldn't you prefer someone with four year's experience this season?

That is a good question TS.

 

Every now and then a late round quarterback develops into something special ala Brady and Hasselback. In the context of your question.....although one never knows, a kid like that probably wouldn't help a lot this season.

Still, in my very strong opinion, it is great to grab a qb late in the draft. The Colts did, and they of course have Peyton Manning. If these guys step in briefly and do well, they at the very least command trade value. At the time Trent was taken, most thought that he would sit on the bench. RJ fetched the 9th overall pick and a 4th rounder after essentially one very good game. This is why I was upset that Jauron (or Brandon) kept drafting corners at the end of the draft. There was no logical reason to do so imo.

[Kelly the Dog]

Fitzpatrick got radically better as last season progressed. The first or second game he started he looked like the worst starting qb i'd ever seen. When I watched the Bengals again toward the end of the season I was very surprised to see that he seemed like a totally different quarterback - very competent, comfortable in the offense, accurate. Apparently the Harvard guy learns quickly.

 

I think we're in a better place this year at QB than last. Losman could provide a spark off the bench with a bomb or two- but its become pretty clear that he's not a guy you can really win with in the league as a starter. Fitz, I think, can actually follow what an offense is trying to do. I think they call that "execution."

 

I didnt see much difference. The Bengals had a pretty decent running game in the last quarter of the season but Fitz was adequate at best. In the last five games, he was terrible against the Ravens, terrible against the Colts (granted, both are good defenses at that point in the season) but he wasn't all that good against the Browns, Chiefs or Redskins, and all of those teams were pretty bad if not horrible at that point in the season. They didnt score, they didnt get the ball downfield, he usually did best on scrambles more than his arm. He really wasnt very good then either.

[Pete]

4-12 is alright? The Bengals season was OVER when Palmer went down. If Trent goes down for ANY LENGTH of time, The Bills season will be OVER. I expect Fitzpatrick to give the Bills the same he gave the Bengals last season...............................NOTHING.

Yes the exclusive reason the Bengals were 4-12 was because Ryan Fitzpatrick. The fact that they went 4--12 must mean that every player on the 53 man roster sucks as well. BTW last year Carson Palmer was 0-4 in the games he started.

[BuffaloBill]

Your analysis misses three points:

 

you assume that the QB's in mid to late rounds are any better than what we have now - just as easy to assume no as it is yes

While Fitzpatrick is not likely to be a superstar in this league he now has almost a full season under his brelt as a starter. This will help Buffalo should he have to play.

The Bills retooled o-line is built for a grind it out style of play. While we would love to see the second coming of the greatest show on turf it is not going to happen in Buffalo playing conditions and with our roster. A smart (and accurate)possession QB is what the Bills have targeted.

 

There are few teams in the league who can boast having two starting QB's on their roster.

[Fewell733]

I didnt see much difference. The Bengals had a pretty decent running game in the last quarter of the season but Fitz was adequate at best. In the last five games, he was terrible against the Ravens, terrible against the Colts (granted, both are good defenses at that point in the season) but he wasn't all that good against the Browns, Chiefs or Redskins, and all of those teams were pretty bad if not horrible at that point in the season. They didnt score, they didnt get the ball downfield, he usually did best on scrambles more than his arm. He really wasnt very good then either.

 

don't get me wrong, I don't think he's a "good" quarterback. At the end of the year, in the game or two I saw, he looked serviceable, as opposed to the walking disaster I watched earlier in the season.

[Kelly the Dog]

don't get me wrong, I don't think he's a "good" quarterback. At the end of the year, in the game or two I saw, he looked serviceable, as opposed to the walking disaster I watched earlier in the season.

 

Serviceable is probably the most correct word. I'm not sure we can get by with serviceable though. We need someone who is "efficient" at worst. I don't think he is that guy but it's just an opinion.

[PromoTheRobot]

There is wayyyyy too much focus on left tackle. All the media parrots are squawking about the Bills losing Peters and how we need to replace him. We have: with the guy who played LT when Jason Peters was too fat and out of shape to start. The Bills won and Edwards did fine. In case you forgot Peters was playing when Edwards was getting creamed and we were losing games so I fail to see how having Peters was going to change anything.

 

Also, don't forget Josh Reed was injured and that hurt Edwards, as did the lingering effects of his concussion. We also had no run game because the cream puffs in the middle of our line couldn't knock over a bobo doll. The Bills obvious took action this year adding Hangartner, Wood and Levitre, signing T.O. and drafting Nelson. Any drop off at LT will be mitigated by Edwards finding targets quicker, and by having a viable run game.

 

One thing we won't be seeing is a Bills QB standing in the pocket, patting the ball, looking for a receiver for 4-5-6 seconds while the pocket collapses.

 

PTR

[Fewell733]

There is wayyyyy too much focus on left tackle. All the media parrots are squawking about the Bills losing Peters and how we need to replace him. We have: with the guy who played LT when Jason Peters was too fat and out of shape to start. The Bills won and Edwards did fine. In case you forgot Peters was playing when Edwards was getting creamed and we were losing games so I fail to see how having Peters was going to change anything.

 

Also, don't forget Josh Reed was injured and that hurt Edwards, as did the lingering effects of his concussion. We also had no run game because the cream puffs in the middle of our line couldn't knock over a bobo doll. The Bills obvious took action this year adding Hangartner, Wood and Levitre, signing T.O. and drafting Nelson. Any drop off at LT will be mitigated by Edwards finding targets quicker, and by having a viable run game.

 

One thing we won't be seeing is a Bills QB standing in the pocket, patting the ball, looking for a receiver for 4-5-6 seconds while the pocket collapses.

 

PTR

 

remember also how bad our line became without Butler. I'm not too worried about tackle. Walker and Butler are both very focused guys who clearly care a lot about what they're doing. I think there are obviously some concerns about Walker handling speed rushers - but I think that can be dealt with through game planning. It would make me feel even better if Walker comes into training camp 25 lbs lighter. I'm not holding my breath on that one though.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Yes the exclusive reason the Bengals were 4-12 was because Ryan Fitzpatrick. The fact that they went 4--12 must mean that every player on the 53 man roster sucks as well. BTW last year Carson Palmer was 0-4 in the games he started.

FWIW, he did win the last three games of the season. That's for those who believe that W-L record is the most important statistic for a quarterback.

 

There are actually two discussions here: Number 2 quarterback and number 3 quarterback.

 

As far as number 2 QB, Fitzpatrick looks to me like a slightly more athletic version of Alex Van Pelt. Yes that is not a ringing endorsement but it also means that he is very smart, resourceful, and probably won't kill the team with mistakes. I did advocate for checking into someone with more experience (Kitna, Garcia, Leftwich) this offseason. Fitzpatrick is our man now, for better or worse.

 

As far as number 3 QB, this will be Hamdan's 3rd year here, 2nd in the system. He had good success in NFL Europa. It is a legitimate question whether he has enough upside to be considered a "groomable" QB or if there will be proven to be better options in the draft (Willy, Harrell, etc). In any case, unless there's an emergency, whoever mans this spot will hopefully not see any regular season PT.

[stuckincincy]

Yes the exclusive reason the Bengals were 4-12 was because Ryan Fitzpatrick. The fact that they went 4--12 must mean that every player on the 53 man roster sucks as well. BTW last year Carson Palmer was 0-4 in the games he started.

 

I watched all his games, Pete.

 

Some points:

 

- Benson was signed 9/30, and first saw action in game 5. Started slow but heated up.

 

- Their WR bench was injured throughout the season, and Ocho Dinko was doing his pouting, short-arm, missed route thing.

 

- OL starters, LT Jones and Adam Whitworth missed the last 6 games, as did their top back-up, Scott Kooistra. C Eric Guiacec was hurt all year long.

 

- For those that take stock in SOS, CIN played in the top three.

 

Fitzpatrick certainly was taken to school early on. He did run and scoot out of trouble, but did that well - very quick decisions, and got positive yards.

 

Were any successes he had, because other teams didn't have the "book" on him? Could be.

 

I didn't see any real red flags about abilities to make the throws, or lack of decent arm strength. He was decisive, learned as he played, and clearly assumed a QBs' leadership role.

 

Who knows how he will fare with BUF? But I've no doubt that if CIN's budgeting for positions allowed, they would have been happy to have re-signed him.

[Pete]

I watched all his games, Pete.

 

Some points:

 

- Benson was signed 9/30, and first saw action in game 5. Started slow but heated up.

 

- Their WR bench was injured throughout the season, and Ocho Dinko was doing his pouting, short-arm, missed route thing.

 

- OL starters, LT Jones and Adam Whitworth missed the last 6 games, as did their top back-up, Scott Kooistra. C Eric Guiacec was hurt all year long.

 

- For those that take stock in SOS, CIN played in the top three.

 

Fitzpatrick certainly was taken to school early on. He did run and scoot out of trouble, but did that well - very quick decisions, and got positive yards.

 

Were any successes he had, because other teams didn't have the "book" on him? Could be.

 

I didn't see any real red flags about abilities to make the throws, or lack of decent arm strength. He was decisive, learned as he played, and clearly assumed a QBs' leadership role.

 

Who knows how he will fare with BUF? But I've no doubt that if CIN's budgeting for positions allowed, they would have been happy to have re-signed him.

great points! And Fitzpatrick's best game was the tie against the Eagles

[Kelly the Dog]

I watched all his games, Pete.

 

Some points:

 

- Benson was signed 9/30, and first saw action in game 5. Started slow but heated up.

 

- Their WR bench was injured throughout the season, and Ocho Dinko was doing his pouting, short-arm, missed route thing.

 

- OL starters, LT Jones and Adam Whitworth missed the last 6 games, as did their top back-up, Scott Kooistra. C Eric Guiacec was hurt all year long.

 

- For those that take stock in SOS, CIN played in the top three.

 

Fitzpatrick certainly was taken to school early on. He did run and scoot out of trouble, but did that well - very quick decisions, and got positive yards.

 

Were any successes he had, because other teams didn't have the "book" on him? Could be.

 

I didn't see any real red flags about abilities to make the throws, or lack of decent arm strength. He was decisive, learned as he played, and clearly assumed a QBs' leadership role.

 

Who knows how he will fare with BUF? But I've no doubt that if CIN's budgeting for positions allowed, they would have been happy to have re-signed him.

I watched a bit too because of fantasy players but surely not as much as you. But he never really got the ball down the field regardless of the WRs. He didnt show a strong arm whatsoever, and it's adequate at best. He didnt look nearly as lost as he was earlier in the season but that didnt mean he looked in command either. Again, almost always his success was with his legs rather than his arm, but he showed a nice knack for eluding rushers and scrambling for first downs. But he didn't make many if any serious throws more than 15-20 yards downfield. He took a lot of hits and he dropped the ball quite a bit when I was watching. He's okay, but that's just it, I don't want my back-up okay.

[stuckincincy]

I watched a bit too because of fantasy players but surely not as much as you. But he never really got the ball down the field regardless of the WRs. He didnt show a strong arm whatsoever, and it's adequate at best. He didnt look nearly as lost as he was earlier in the season but that didnt mean he looked in command either. Again, almost always his success was with his legs rather than his arm, but he showed a nice knack for eluding rushers and scrambling for first downs. But he didn't make many if any serious throws more than 15-20 yards downfield. He took a lot of hits and he dropped the ball quite a bit when I was watching. He's okay, but that's just it, I don't want my back-up okay.

 

Should one deduce then, that the Bills FO were saps of the first water, to pay what they did?

[Speedy G]

4-12 is alright? The Bengals season was OVER when Palmer went down. If Trent goes down for ANY LENGTH of time, The Bills season will be OVER. I expect Fitzpatrick to give the Bills the same he gave the Bengals last season...............................NOTHING.

 

That being said, I was worried when the signed Fitz , but the experience he gained last year was valuable, did he even see the field before that?, if you drafted someone in rounds 5-7, they have zero experience!, at least Fitz has seen what nfl defenses throw at you, and can probably even help Trent from that aspect....

[stuckincincy]

That being said, I was worried when the signed Fitz , but the experience he gained last year was valuable, did he even see the field before that?, if you drafted someone in rounds 5-7, they have zero experience!, at least Fitz has seen what nfl defenses throw at you, and can probably even help Trent from that aspect....

 

 

3 starts with STL in 2005.

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/ryanfitzpatrick...le?id=FIT792915

 

IIRC, CIN gave STL a 4th to get him.

Edited May 3, 2009 by stuckincincy

[shrader]

Welcome to the quarterback situation for just about every team in the league. Who wouldn't be screwed if their starter goes down or even worse, their backup too?

[Johnny Hammersticks]

If you're concerned about Fitzpatrick's ability to step in, I can understand that. But how would that be remedied with a late-round "groomable" prospect? Wouldn't you prefer someone with four year's experience this season?

 

 

I'd rather pick a kid with some potential that we can work with, and cut another QB that we already know stinks (i.e., Gibran Hamdan, Matt Baker)!! It's pessimistic to say so, but we need to look beyond this season and the unfortunately possibility that Trent isn't the guy that's gonna get us to the playoffs. I'm a BIG TE fan and i will support him, but I am also a realist.

[stuckincincy]

I'd rather pick a kid with some potential that we can work with, and cut another QB that we already know stinks (i.e., Gibran Hamdan, Matt Baker)!! It's pessimistic to say so, but we need to look beyond this season and the unfortunately possibility that Trent isn't the guy that's gonna get us to the playoffs. I'm a BIG TE fan and i will support him, but I am also a realist.

 

 

I've no opinion about Hamden (I see few Bills games), but you are right - always take looks at different quarterbacks. The odds are low, but now and then, you strike gold.

[Fewell733]

what qbs would you have taken in the late rounds? are they any better than the guys we brought in as Undrafted FA's and try-out guys? If we took one of them in the 7th round would this change your opinion?

[muddy waters]

Former Clemson QB Cullen Harper was invited for a tryout. He is likely as good a prospect as any late round pick. Curious to see how he does. Here's a link to an article about him:

 

http://www.goupstate.com/article/20090428/NEWS/904289971

[stuckincincy]

what qbs would you have taken in the late rounds? are they any better than the guys we brought in as Undrafted FA's and try-out guys? If we took one of them in the 7th round would this change your opinion?

 

Are you asking me?

[Fewell733]

Are you asking me?

 

no, just asking generally towards those that were dissapointed that we didn't draft a qb late to be a 3rd stringer.

[MattM]

I watched a bit too because of fantasy players but surely not as much as you. But he never really got the ball down the field regardless of the WRs. He didnt show a strong arm whatsoever, and it's adequate at best. He didnt look nearly as lost as he was earlier in the season but that didnt mean he looked in command either. Again, almost always his success was with his legs rather than his arm, but he showed a nice knack for eluding rushers and scrambling for first downs. But he didn't make many if any serious throws more than 15-20 yards downfield. He took a lot of hits and he dropped the ball quite a bit when I was watching. He's okay, but that's just it, I don't want my back-up okay.

 

Sounds a lot like Matt Cassel to me--I don't think he can hit the broad side of a barn more than 20 yards from what I saw last year, yet he's being touted as the second coming of Favre......

[stuckincincy]

Sounds a lot like Matt Cassel to me--I don't think he can hit the broad side of a barn more than 20 yards from what I saw last year, yet he's being touted as the second coming of Favre......

 

???

 

Fitzpatrick or Cassel? I can't think of anybody who is touting Fitzpatrick as the 2nd coming of anybody.

 

Please clarify.

[bladiebla]

I honestly think that Hamdan did very well last year in his pre-season game; he was bitten a couple of times of crucial downs by fumbles by that RB and some nasty drops by I believe it was Jenkins. They like him as third for running the scout team and prepping with TE, I got the feeling from talking to him earlier this year that he feels that is where he thinks he'll endup again. But then again the Bills were shopping for a veterean QB as backup then, we'll see what happens if he manages to outplay Fitz.

[Kelly the Dog]

Should one deduce then, that the Bills FO were saps of the first water, to pay what they did?

 

Well, yes.

 

But I think they consciously made a decision on what kind of quarterback they wanted. And I think they ultimately decided that they wanted a guy with a back-up's mentality rather than a starter's mentality, and Fitzpatrick fit that better than other guys. They didnt want a guy to try to wrestle Trent's job away or think he should be the starter, and they didn't want Trent looking over his shoulder. They want to finally see whether they got their QB of the present and future this year. I don't think they paid too much for him, although it was probably more than other teams would have paid.

[folz]

I honestly think that Hamdan did very well last year in his pre-season game; he was bitten a couple of times of crucial downs by fumbles by that RB and some nasty drops by I believe it was Jenkins. They like him as third for running the scout team and prepping with TE, I got the feeling from talking to him earlier this year that he feels that is where he thinks he'll endup again. But then again the Bills were shopping for a veterean QB as backup then, we'll see what happens if he manages to outplay Fitz.

 

I still don't understand why they didn't give Hamdan a try/start during the last couple of games last year when

Trent was out, our season was over, and JP was stinking things up. Maybe it was to be fair to JP and give him a

chance to shine for other teams (knowing we weren't going to keep him). But it seems like getting Hamdan some

game experience would have been a good thing for the team (and we fans might have a better take on him).

 

That being said I feel pretty good about Fitzpatrick...lots of game experience and ok with his back-up role.

[stuckincincy]

Well, yes.

 

But I think they consciously made a decision on what kind of quarterback they wanted. And I think they ultimately decided that they wanted a guy with a back-up's mentality rather than a starter's mentality, and Fitzpatrick fit that better than other guys. They didnt want a guy to try to wrestle Trent's job away or think he should be the starter, and they didn't want Trent looking over his shoulder. They want to finally see whether they got their QB of the present and future this year. I don't think they paid too much for him, although it was probably more than other teams would have paid.

 

If Fitzpatrick beats out Edwards, or goes in and shows to be a better quarterback, I expect you to report back.

 

 

With eloquent humility, nary a straw man, and hat in hand.

 

 

After all, it would be for the greater good. Fair enough?

 

[Kelly the Dog]

If Fitzpatrick beats out Edwards, or goes in and shows to be a better quarterback, I expect you to report back.

 

 

With eloquent humility, nary a straw man, and hat in hand.

 

 

After all, it would be for the greater good. Fair enough?

 

It ain't gonna happen because they aren't likely willing to let it happen, but fair enough. I do, however, expect Fitzpatrick to have the chance to start about four games this season, at least. I think there is a slightly better chance of Hamden beating out Fitz than Fitz beating out Trent, although neither is very likely.

[Lurker]

Deju vu all over again...