SoCal Pat Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 ... we drafted Willis McGahee in the first round of the 2003 draft. We were coming off an 8-8 season, we had all the tools to be a prolific offense (the 2002 version was easily the best since the Kelly/No huddle days ... and Donahoe drafts a player who wouldn't help us at all in 2003. When you're poised to take the next big step, from average team to playoff and Super Bowl contender, you don't take players who can't help you immediately. The window of opportunity in today's NFL is open far shorter than it was 10 years ago, or before free agency. If you're in the no-mans land of the NFL (7-9 through 9-7), you simply cannot be using your first-round picks on the future. We absolutely blew it with that pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi82 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 YEP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacoy38 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 ... we drafted Willis McGahee in the first round of the 2003 draft. We were coming off an 8-8 season, we had all the tools to be a prolific offense (the 2002 version was easily the best since the Kelly/No huddle days ... and Donahoe drafts a player who wouldn't help us at all in 2003. When you're poised to take the next big step, from average team to playoff and Super Bowl contender, you don't take players who can't help you immediately. The window of opportunity in today's NFL is open far shorter than it was 10 years ago, or before free agency. If you're in the no-mans land of the NFL (7-9 through 9-7), you simply cannot be using your first-round picks on the future. We absolutely blew it with that pick. we could have had dallas clark with the mcgahee pick; henry was still only on like his 7th kid and a little pot (not 11 kids and blow like in 2008), bledsoe had a little left in the tank and we rid ourselves of peerless. i think with donahoe in place he wanted 'his guy' and 2003 was a lame duck year for gregg williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Monkey Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Actually, I think it started when Polian was fired. There was just a lot further to slide from at that point.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brambills Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I thought the slide started when Wade Philips refused to wear a headset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Actually, I think it started when Polian was fired. There was just a lot further to slide from at that point.... Bingo. I'm suprised that we haven't already had 4-5 posts in this thread declaring Losman as the turning point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLynchTrain Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Bingo. I'm suprised that we haven't already had 4-5 posts in this thread declaring Losman as the turning point. LOSMAN WAS THE TURNING POINT!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewHampshireBillsFan Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Quite true. I think the problem with GM's like Donahoe is that they always want to try to show how clever they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmoove Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 RJ over Flutie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOBILLS78 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Umm, the team has almost always been mediocre. Fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Actually, I think it started when Polian was fired. There was just a lot further to slide from at that point.... Agfree. We had residency established in Suckville by the time we draft Willis McGoofus. That said, let's maintain some perspective. As frustrating as multiple 7-9 seasons can be, we never sank to the depths of the Detroit Lions or Oakland Raiders. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 ... we drafted Willis McGahee in the first round of the 2003 draft. We were coming off an 8-8 season, we had all the tools to be a prolific offense (the 2002 version was easily the best since the Kelly/No huddle days ... and Donahoe drafts a player who wouldn't help us at all in 2003. When you're poised to take the next big step, from average team to playoff and Super Bowl contender, you don't take players who can't help you immediately. The window of opportunity in today's NFL is open far shorter than it was 10 years ago, or before free agency. If you're in the no-mans land of the NFL (7-9 through 9-7), you simply cannot be using your first-round picks on the future. We absolutely blew it with that pick. You could also say it was the year before, taking a RT with the 4th overall pick when you know you have lots of other holes. Not one start in the bunch with first 4 rounds. 2002 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 4 Mike Williams T Texas 2 36 Josh Reed WR Louisiana State 2 61 Ryan Denney DE Brigham Young 3 97 Coy Wire SS Stanford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mousetrap08 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Quite true. I think the problem with GM's like Donahoe is that they always want to try to show how clever they are. Yes it was Donahoe fault that this team fell so far.Starting with the Bledsoe trade and not resigning Pat Williams and then giving all them picks to Dallas to draft losman,yea and drafting MaGahee was a huge gamble that did'nt pan out all that great. I think that is why this team is where they are right now and did I mention the head coaches he brang it aaaah! OH I ALMOST FORGOT THE MIKE WILLIAMS PICK how awful was that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 When old Ralphie Boy forced Bill Polian out of Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 RJ over Flutie As much as I hate the fact Ralph fired the best GM in the game, the move that totally drained the team of its winning attitude was taking the team from Flutie and giving it to Johnson. We immediately suffered one of the franchise's worst losses ever and have yet to sniff the playoffs since. Of course, I feel strongly that if Polian were still our GM, we'd have won the division last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I actually think the start of mediocrity came when Wilson caught Polian porking his daughter in the press box back in the fall of 92'. In alot of ways, that was the beginning of the end of winning bills football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Erik "frigg'n" Flowers! Bulter's last draft in 2000 (and subsequent departure) was the turning point, IMO. Year-by-year W/L Record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemhoff Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Music City Miracle (travesty) seems to be the beginning of the descent IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I actually think the start of mediocrity came when Wilson caught Polian porking his daughter in the press box back in the fall of 92'. In alot of ways, that was the beginning of the end of winning bills football. Some people try to be funny...others fail miserably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Some people try to be funny...others fail miserably. I thought it was pretty funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Erik "frigg'n" Flowers! Bulter's last draft in 2000 (and subsequent departure) was the turning point, IMO. Year-by-year W/L Record I agree. That whole draft was a disaster at a time when several of their best players from the Super Bowl era were on the way out. The painfully average drafts that followed over the next few years didn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 You could also say it was the year before, taking a RT with the 4th overall pick when you know you have lots of other holes. Not one start in the bunch with first 4 rounds. 2002 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 4 Mike Williams T Texas 2 36 Josh Reed WR Louisiana State 2 61 Ryan Denney DE Brigham Young 3 97 Coy Wire SS Stanford I can live with the 2nd and 3rd Rounders...But the Williams Pick was crippling...All that Cap Cash, a non-motivated, non-leader, and the Players they passed to take him...Oh boy! That 2002 Draft reads like an NFL who's who after Williams...McKinnie, John Henderson, Freeney, Haynesworth, Charles Grant, Jevon Walker, Ed Reed, Shockey, Levi Jones, Daniel Graham, Lito Sheppard...heck Clinton Portis and Our own Langston Walker were 2nd Rounders in that Draft...UGH!!! And to think The Bills could have had most of those Player with a freaking Trade Down!!! The Williams Pick was a serious back-breaker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 There's really no doubt about it: Bill Polian was the last good general manager this team ever had. February 3rd, 1993 was his last day in office. Look at what we've acquired since: Best Coach: Wade Phillips. A decent defensive coordinator who has yet to win a playoff game. Best QB: Um, Flutie? Edwards? Todd Collins? Drew Bledsoe? We're 0-fer since Jimbo. Best RB: They can't all be Thurman, but the Bills have spent first round picks on McGahee, Lynch, and Antowain Smith since Polian left. Add in mid-round Travis, and there is talent in this group - but why are we always replacing them? Best WR(s): Moulds and Evans doesn't give me anything to complain about here. Best TE: ...Jay Riemersma? The best TE to come on board in the past 16 years? Am I forgetting someone here? Best OTs: Well, Jason Peters was one, see what happened to him. Is it possible the second best tackle the Bills have brought on in the post-Polian era is Langston Walker? Fina was already here, other contenders are Corey Louchey and Jonas Jennings Best OGs: Reuben Brown and Brad Butler are actually starting-caliber OGs. Can't complain here, even though #3 on this list is washout Derrick Dockery. Best C: I don't want to talk about it. Trey Teague? Billy Conaty? Best DE: Aaron Schobel and Marcellus Wiley give us two respectable DEs, but then what? Maybe Jim Jeffcoat? Among DEs acquired in the post-Polian era, the sack leaders are Schobel, Denney, and Wiley. Best DTs: Here they get credit for free agent pickups and trades: Stroud, Williams, Washington and Adams. I can't complain about the longterm pursuit of DTs, though it seems like we could never keep two good ones together for more than six months. Best LBs: Again, a solid position for the new guys, with Spikes, Paup, and Fletcher leading the group. Add in Cowart, and you have a decent group. Best CBs: An all star team! Clements, Winfield, McKelvin, McGee, Greer, Thomas Smith, Jeff Burris! Though I should note: Only Clements is in the team's all time top ten in interceptions, since they keep going on to other teams. McGee joins him in the top 20. Best S: Again, a decent enough group: Whitner if you like him, Milloy if you don't, Vincent, Schultz, etc. Lindell and Moorman are clearcut winners as specialists, with McGee returning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 So as an all 1993-2009 acquisitions team, I'm going: QB: Flutie RB: Lynch, Henry WR: Evans, Moulds OT: Peters, Walker OG: Butler, Brown C: Teague DE: Schobel, Wiley DT: Williams, Washington OLB: Spikes, Paup MLB: Fletcher CB: Winfield, Clements FS: Vincent SS: Milloy P: Moorman K: Lindell. Take those players in their primes - how would they do in the Bills' 2009 schedule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Pat Posted April 22, 2009 Author Share Posted April 22, 2009 ... we drafted Willis McGahee in the first round of the 2003 draft. We were coming off an 8-8 season, we had all the tools to be a prolific offense (the 2002 version was easily the best since the Kelly/No huddle days ... and Donahoe drafts a player who wouldn't help us at all in 2003. When you're poised to take the next big step, from average team to playoff and Super Bowl contender, you don't take players who can't help you immediately. The window of opportunity in today's NFL is open far shorter than it was 10 years ago, or before free agency. If you're in the no-mans land of the NFL (7-9 through 9-7), you simply cannot be using your first-round picks on the future. We absolutely blew it with that pick. I probably should've qualified mediocrity with "consistent, unparalleled, no-end-in-sight mediocrity." Sure, heading into the 2003 draft we hadn't made the playoffs in three seasons, but think about what happened in those three years. Injuries crippled us in 2000 and the bottom fell out in 2001. Everyone hits this point in the NFL. But in 2002, it appeared our time among the NFL dregs was going to be short. We went from 3-13 to 8-8, and had a couple of close losses that kept us from getting back into the playoffs. We start 2-0 that year, including a 31-0 stomping of the Pats, and we were off and running. Or so we thought. No, the 2003 draft was the crusher. Get into the playoffs in that season and who knows what it does for the franchise? We can play what-if all day with this, and I'll start it off by saying we don't trade out of the first round in 2005 to get JP Losman in the 2004 draft. Drafting the QB of the future doesn't become a pressing need if Buffalo is a playoff team in 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach55 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Y2K occurred. After that everything went down hill. Everyone was expecting the world to end. The world didn't end, just all the hopes and dreams of us Bills fans were crushed...(Needless to say Y2K came amazingly right before the great idea to bench Flutie in the music city miracle - so I guess those go hand and hand) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mousetrap08 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I thought it was pretty funny. what a small mind will think is funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbringer Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Since I'm an eternal optimist, I think they were pretty highly regarded when they were 5-1 last year. I remember Buffalo being as high as #4 in some of the weekly power rankings, and a lot of fans were actually thinking first round bye. So the descent into mediocrity came one second after the San Diego game ended. Now that I think of it, wasn't that also the beginning of Miami week, when the rumors of Dick Jauron's extension started to circulate? I supposed you could say that's when the slide started. Either way, I believe it started after the San Diego game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 ....they built the Erie Canal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Erik "frigg'n" Flowers! Wow, I took a look at the rest of that draft after the Flowers pick, and the only names that did much of anything that I could see were Laverneuos Coles, Tuten Reyes and Marc Bulger. Other than a handful of the first rounders, that whole 2000 draft was one huge suckfest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkwwjd Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 ... we drafted Willis McGahee in the first round of the 2003 draft. We were coming off an 8-8 season, we had all the tools to be a prolific offense (the 2002 version was easily the best since the Kelly/No huddle days ... and Donahoe drafts a player who wouldn't help us at all in 2003. When you're poised to take the next big step, from average team to playoff and Super Bowl contender, you don't take players who can't help you immediately. The window of opportunity in today's NFL is open far shorter than it was 10 years ago, or before free agency. If you're in the no-mans land of the NFL (7-9 through 9-7), you simply cannot be using your first-round picks on the future. We absolutely blew it with that pick. Unfortunately ... the second half of that 2002 season that you refer to was quite pedestrian in an offensive sense. The first half of the year, we're talking about Bledsoe being on pace to take out some Marino records. He threw 610 passes that year (Kelly in comparison threw 480 as his most in 1986). After 8 games ... Bledsoe had 2500 yards passing, 16 TDs, 5 INTs. The last 8, 1800 yards, 8 TDs, 10 INTs. The 2002 version that you speak of only refers to the first 8 games. 2003 started in week 9 against NE. Let's not romanticize that year, thinking that McGahee brought us down. We were brought down when the rest of the league watched how NE stopped us and copied them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VJ91 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 ... we drafted Willis McGahee in the first round of the 2003 draft. We were coming off an 8-8 season, we had all the tools to be a prolific offense (the 2002 version was easily the best since the Kelly/No huddle days ... and Donahoe drafts a player who wouldn't help us at all in 2003..... ....We absolutely blew it with that pick. Donahoe did get Crowell and McGee later in this draft, but look at some of the talent he missed on early: Here are some players chosen after McGahee in the first and early into the second round, that Donahoe could have drafted instead: 24 Dallas Clark TE Iowa Indianapolis Colts 27 Larry Johnson RB Penn State Kansas City Chiefs 28 Andre Woolfolk CB Oklahoma Tennessee Titans 29 Nick Barnett MLB Oregon State Green Bay Packers 30 Sammy Davis CB Texas A&M San Diego Chargers 31 Nnamdi Asomugha CB California Oakland Raiders 32 Tyler Brayton DE Colorado Oakland Raiders 33 Eric Steinbach G Iowa Cincinnati Bengals Here are some players chosen after Kelsay in the second round, that Donahoe could have drafted instead: 54 Anquan Boldin WR Florida State Arizona Cardinals 55 Bryan Scott SS Penn State Atlanta Falcons 56 Osi Umenyiora DE Troy State New York Giants 57 Anthony Adams DT Penn State San Francisco 49ers 58 Mike Doss SS Ohio State Indianapolis Colts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Here are some players chosen after Kelsay in the second round, that Donahoe could have drafted instead:54 Anquan Boldin WR Florida State Arizona Cardinals 55 Bryan Scott SS Penn State Atlanta Falcons 56 Osi Umenyiora DE Troy State New York Giants 57 Anthony Adams DT Penn State San Francisco 49ers 58 Mike Doss SS Ohio State Indianapolis Colts What could they possibly have been seeing to have them take Osi ahead of Denney? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMan Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 1) Poulian 2) Pat Williams 3) Rob Johnson 4) Reuben Brown 5) Willis McGahee 6) JP Losman ( who actually may have had a chance in this league without terrible coaching and no OL ) Nails in the coffin: 1) TO 2) Jason Peters Note to Bills FO: Get an offensive line - I love the Bills, always have but frankly......ESPN is right.....we suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Bills fan Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Actually, I think it started when Polian was fired. There was just a lot further to slide from at that point.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 ... we drafted Willis McGahee in the first round of the 2003 draft. We were coming off an 8-8 season, we had all the tools to be a prolific offense (the 2002 version was easily the best since the Kelly/No huddle days ... and Donahoe drafts a player who wouldn't help us at all in 2003. When you're poised to take the next big step, from average team to playoff and Super Bowl contender, you don't take players who can't help you immediately. The window of opportunity in today's NFL is open far shorter than it was 10 years ago, or before free agency. If you're in the no-mans land of the NFL (7-9 through 9-7), you simply cannot be using your first-round picks on the future. We absolutely blew it with that pick. it goes back a lot farther then that Polian was the tipping point not building the OL since Polian is the 2nd reason why we sucked for so long not hiring real coaches is the 3rd reason trading a 1st rd pick for Rob Johnson 4th trading a 1st rd pick for Drew Bledsoe 5th Drafting McGahee is more the 10 th reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 If Willis and henry could have co existed we would have had easily the best running back tandum in the league Just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Music City Miracle just killed the team. Then there was 1 brief run at escaping mediocrity... 2nd half of the 2004 season. Say what you want about the soft schedule, but that team was firing on all cylinders, fanbase was super-charged-up, and the players were building the confidence that you need to become true winners. Then Bledsoe sh-- the bed against the Steelers , and the rest is history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 1960 I'd say the merger. After that, the Bills couldn't feast solely on AFL patsies anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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