A Question To All TSW Posters

[ajzepp]

I just get the stronger feeling every day that, at this time next year, JP will still be the QB and will not look any better. The OL will have 1 or 2 new scrubs that no other team wants & still suck, and the Pollyannas will still be saying that it's not JP's fault, just give him time.

It's like the movie Groundhog Day.

827080[/snapback]

 

Exactly, that's how I'm beginning to feel, too. I think what I realized - mainly cause I found myself partaking in it - was that every single week we are having to justify why JP didn't look as bad as he really did, didn't do as much as he should have, etc. I don't expect JP to be playing like a savvy vet, but I sure as heck expected more production out of him. Sure, protecting the ball is very important. Having an opportunistic and stout defense is important. ST and coaching is important. But ultimately you have GOT to put the ball in the endzone.

[ACor58]

Exactly, that's how I'm beginning to feel, too. I think what I realized - mainly cause I found myself partaking in it - was that every single week we are having to justify why JP didn't look as bad as he really did, didn't do as much as he should have, etc. I don't expect JP to be playing like a savvy vet, but I sure as heck expected more production out of him. Sure, protecting the ball is very important. Having an opportunistic and stout defense is important. ST and coaching is important. But ultimately you have GOT to put the ball in the endzone.

827155[/snapback]

 

Please join us over at "There are two types of people, ones who think JP will never be good, and f**king liars".

 

Thank you.

[RkFast]

I'm glad you've pointed this out. Some Bills fan simply won't be happy until they can A) clone Jim Kelly, B) clone Tom Brady or C) clone Payton Manning. I get the sense that they feel that every other NFL offense has a HOF QB and is scoring points like a pinball machine.

827042[/snapback]

 

On the contrary. Id just like to have a team that I can sit down, have a few beers and wings and expect to see a worthwhile football game played in ernest.

 

I dont need the 92 Bills every year.

 

I just need something worth watching.

[Bill from NYC]

I believe that's the game, yes.

 

That was possibly the worst effort by a winning Bills QB I can recall in recent memory.  That includes yesterday's putrid effort by Losman.

827135[/snapback]

 

The difference was that at the end, Flutie came through like a champ. He did the same thing at a home game vs. Jax. I was there. Even in college, Fluite had that famous pass.

Otoh, JP plays and sounds like a confounded dummy. He has talent galore, but it is time (imo) to accept the possibility that we have another RJ on our hands.

[Ramius]

The difference was that at the end, Flutie came through like a champ. He did the same thing at a home game vs. Jax. I was there. Even in college, Fluite had that famous pass.

Otoh, JP plays and sounds like a confounded dummy. He has talent galore, but it is time (imo) to accept the possibility that we have another RJ on our hands. 

827172[/snapback]

 

Now i am not saying JP is the answer, but he DID come through when it mattered yesterday. Too many people bitched that he didnt win us a game in the 4th quarter, but now he does, and they still B word.

[1billsfan]

On the contrary. Id just like to have a team that I can sit down, have a few beers and wings and expect to see a worthwhile football game played in ernest.

 

I dont need the 92 Bills every year.

 

I just need something worth watching.

827170[/snapback]

 

I did say "some fans", not all. As for me, I've enjoyed watching four games this season (First Pats game, Dolphins, Vikings and the Packers). Considering that this is a rebuilding year, a 50-50 enjoyment rate is pretty good in my book. What exactly are you expecting from this current roster? Did you think they'd have a winning record? That they wouldn't be blown out a few times? You may not want to watch next Sundays game then.

[IDBillzFan]

The only reason I'm miserable is because I took Green Bay plus the points, which is more to the point about why people are miserable after this win: We didn't win so much as Green Bay completely sucked ass and we sucked ass less.

[Bill from NYC]

Now i am not saying JP is the answer, but he DID come through when it mattered yesterday. Too many people bitched that he didnt win us a game in the 4th quarter, but now he does, and they still B word.

827173[/snapback]

 

Who REALLY came through for us Bro, JP, Favre, or Nate?

 

Favre tossed the int. from where, inside our 5? The TD pass to Evans wasn't quite as bad as the one where he forced Lee to stop in his tracks, but he couldn't ("cannon" or not) hit him in stride.

 

I am feeling great that the Bills won a football game. Fletcher, Schobel, Nate Tripplet, Thomas, Shelton and others played really well. It was (imo) a fine debut for Peters at LT. Lots of good news.

 

JP otoh was pitiful, and this is bad news for our Bills.

[Beerball]

Plenty of thoughts already, but here's my .02

 

We as a community are very used to the Bills losing games in frustrating fashion. Yesterday they won in frustrating fashion and we don't know how to handle it. The defense was bailed out by turnovers (yes, they had to make them, but they were bailed out), and the offense was bailed out by Green Bay. So, we really didn't win the game, GB lost it. (I'm only half kidding here)

 

The play of our QB has now begun to swing me towards the idea that he aint gonna make it. Our O-line is not great, but I'm not sure that they are as bad as he makes them look. Pull the friggin trigger already. Two long pass plays yesterday and JP was late on both of them. The first was broken up and the second was completed because Evans was sooooooo wide open. On both of those (IMO) Losman was late in delivering the ball. You make your line look good by making quick decisions and getting rid of the ball. Trust your receivers to make a play.

 

Special teams were again the team's shining stars. Moorman outstanding. Punt returns very good. KO returns very good. But, how many times can you get excited about that?

[Bungee Jumper]

The difference was that at the end, Flutie came through like a champ. He did the same thing at a home game vs. Jax. I was there. Even in college, Fluite had that famous pass.

Otoh, JP plays and sounds like a confounded dummy. He has talent galore, but it is time (imo) to accept the possibility that we have another RJ on our hands. 

827172[/snapback]

 

Am I the only one that heard Fred Sanford's voice when I read that? "JP, you big dummy! Ooooh...this is the big one, I'm comin' Elizabeth!"

[Toledo Bill]

It's a good thing that there weren't Bill's chat rooms during the Harvey Johnson, Hank Bullough eras based on the commentaries we see now. I found myself to be very apathetic regarding the game. Starting with the confusion on their first drive (third and one... time out, etc) I felt discouraged with the lack of progress in several areas. It is the type of feeling I had in Greggo's first season... love the Bills, root for them every game, but I have little faith in their competency.

 

I am sure they will eventually improve, but I have accepted that for at least this year... they are a poor football team.

[KnightRider]

2001 Buffalo vs. Jacksonville - Bills win 13-10

2001 Buffalo vs. Carolina - Bills win 25-24 and costing us Peppers...

 

Wins against the Colts in 84, 85 and 86...

[Tortured Soul]

It just reinforces my theory that Bills fans will never be happy with what the Bills do

826976[/snapback]

 

 

I'm glad you've pointed this out. Some Bills fan simply won't be happy until they can A) clone Jim Kelly, B) clone Tom Brady or C) clone Payton Manning

827042[/snapback]

 

How about if they would just win? Win the Superbowl, even a playoff game. Put something competitive out on the field. When they're celebrating in New Orleans or Miami or whereever the Big Game is that year and people on this board are still whining, fine. But until then, the Bills know exactly what they have to do to make their fans happy.

 

I think the reason this win is not a cause for celebration is that we're all staring a seventh straight football-less January in the face, and for those of us below the age of 30, we've never seen anything like it before. Seeing JP struggle like he did makes us want to make other plans for Jan. 08 and 09 as well.

[jahnyc]

I think the gloom results from the following:

 

1. The team is bad, and there is no confidence that they are getting better or that they will be better next year.

 

2. The team has been bad for a long time. I think the playoff drought will be seven years after this year.

 

3. If JP is not the guy, finding the guy could mean more rebuilding and patience.

 

4. We will lose Clements, and possibly Fletcher, Kelsay and others this offseason. The team will be worse after losing these players and there are too many holes to fill.

 

5. The offense is not entertaining in any way, shape or form.

 

6. While the Bills won yesterday, they were outplayed (except on special teams). A win is a win, but it was really ugly.

 

Overall, we are tired of losing and being patient.

[RkFast]

I did say "some fans", not all. As for me, I've enjoyed watching four games this season (First Pats game, Dolphins, Vikings and the Packers). Considering that this is a rebuilding year, a 50-50 enjoyment rate is pretty good in my book. What exactly are you expecting from this current roster? Did you think they'd have a winning record? That they wouldn't be blown out a few times? You may not want to watch next Sundays game then.

827179[/snapback]

 

Its not about this year. Its about last year. Its about Gregg Williams. Its about Rob Johnson. Its about Tom Donohoe. Its about the fact the rest of the NFL have been to and from the postseason since the last time the Bills have. Its about hearing the same thing year after year..."we are rebuilding", "the QB needs [this or that]", "they just have to jell."

[Ramius]

I think the gloom results from the following:

 

1.  The team is bad, and there is no confidence that they are getting better or that they will be better next year.

 

2.  The team has been bad for a long time.  I think the playoff drought will be seven years after this year.

 

3.  If JP is not the guy, finding the guy could mean more rebuilding and patience.

 

4.  We will lose Clements, and possibly Fletcher, Kelsay and others this offseason.  The team will be worse after losing these players and there are too many holes to fill.

 

5.  The offense is not entertaining in any way, shape or form.

 

6.  While the Bills won yesterday, they were outplayed (except on special teams).  A win is a win, but it was really ugly.

 

Overall, we are tired of losing and being patient.

827238[/snapback]

 

I love it how "we wont be any better next year" Ever hear of rookies getting better and developing? Teams play together and grow together. Its called game experience. Its amazing what a bit of cohesiveness can do, but no, that doesnt satisfy the hot pocket crowd.

[cåblelady]

What's up? 

826956[/snapback]

I'm thrilled with our win. I was at the game and have watched my DVR recording twice already. I'll probably watch it at least a couple more times.

 

I'm only disgusted with whiny Bills fans.

[Bill from NYC]

I'm thrilled with our win. I was at the game and have watched my DVR recording twice already. I'll probably watch it at least a couple more times. 

 

I'm only disgusted with whiny Bills fans. 

827251[/snapback]

 

You are the only person I know who can eat chocolates at will and maintain a figure like a 25 year old.

[cåblelady]

You are the only person I know who can eat chocolates at will and maintain a figure like a 25 year old.

827253[/snapback]

I love you, Bill.

 

Now, lighten up on JP.

[jahnyc]

What is the "hot pocket crowd"?

[Bill from NYC]

I love you, Bill. 

 

Now, lighten up on JP. 

827256[/snapback]

 

I have gone relatively easy on him CL. The 2 passes to Evans concerned me. JP has the arm to hit him in stride both times. I can't understand what he was doing with those passes. Evans had to all but stop both times.

Remember the balls he threw to Evans vs. Miami last year? What happened yesterday? If he keeps hanging it up like that Evans will be dead.

[plenzmd1]

I have gone relatively easy on him CL. The 2 passes to Evans concerned me. JP has the arm to hit him in stride both times. I can't understand what he was doing with those passes. Evans had to all but stop both times.

Remember the balls he threw to Evans vs. Miami last year? What happened yesterday? If he keeps hanging it up like that Evans will be dead. 

827265[/snapback]

 

Overcomepensation in my mind. Almost every other long ball thrown by JP this year has been "overthrown". Also, lets not forgwt had Royal caught that ball he was taking it to the house, as you could see the safety on that side of the field would have had no chance in catching him.

[Albany,n.y.]

People need to look beyond the stats, and I think that's what the majority are doing.  Our QB was inept, and our backup, journeyman RB looked better than anything we have seen from WM all year.  That's what is discouraging.

826983[/snapback]

That totally sums it up. Anyone who watched the game knows that the game's stats don't come close to the reality of what we saw Sunday. I got an e-mail from Petrino, who didn't see the game & just read the stats & he thought the team kept JP on a short leash. Throw out the stats, watch the game and it's obvious that the Bills were horrible except on special teams & one busted coverage play by Evans. Maybe the A-train gets a pass too. However, if Brett Favre didn't hand the game to the Bills, it's an ugly loss in a game totally dominated by GB on O & D.

[Captain Hindsight]

They only made 15 attempts so completing 8 isn't horrible.

 

I must say I can't believe the doom and gloom around here, especially after a win, and one that they scored more then 20 points in.

 

It just reinforces my theory that Bills fans will never be happy with what the Bills do

826976[/snapback]

Everyone on this board was pissed after the jets game when jp threw for 300 yds and we lost. ill take a win when i can get one, this just in STATS DONT MATTER wins do

[generaLee83]

How many games will the Bills win if they complete EIGHT passes per game?

 

It's not really anymore complicated than that.

826966[/snapback]

 

 

Thank you, I'll take a victory any day but yesterdays game was a loss on Brett Favre's behalf, not a victory by the Bills.

 

The complete inept state of Buffalo's offense is very depressing.

[ajzepp]

Everyone on this board was pissed after the jets game when jp threw for 300 yds and we lost. ill take a win when i can get one, this just in STATS DONT MATTER wins do

827280[/snapback]

 

see that's the kind of game I feel JP should be having more of, but with fewer mistakes. I certainly don't expect him to be throwing for 300 every game, but IIRC the main thinig that stopped us that game was US. I expected to see those games transition into games where he would throw one less pick, have one less fumble, etc....

 

After yesterday, we're left with "but he had the ONE pass that won the game!" If you have a veteran in there with a history of solid performances and he just has an off game, then it's okay for him to have that one pass that wins it. But JP ISN'T that guy, so if we find ourselves talking about that ONE thing JP did durign the game, then I think that's a problem.

[mike1011]

It's like the movie Groundhog Day.

827080[/snapback]

 

Don't drive angry, I hate it when you drive angry. Great movie!!!

 

The JP love-fest is Bill Murray's finest movie.

[mike1011]

see that's the kind of game I feel JP should be having more of, but with fewer mistakes. I certainly don't expect him to be throwing for 300 every game, but IIRC the main thinig that stopped us that game was US. I expected to see those games transition into games where he would throw one less pick, have one less fumble, etc....

 

After yesterday, we're left with "but he had the ONE pass that won the game!"  If you have a veteran in there with a history of solid performances and he just has an off game, then it's okay for him to have that one pass that wins it. But JP ISN'T that guy, so if we find ourselves talking about that ONE thing JP did durign the game, then I think that's a problem.

827321[/snapback]

 

 

Lest we forget that he stank against the Jets and half his yards were in the 4th against a prevent defense. 300 yards is great, but have 200 with 2 TDs by the end of the 4th.

 

Most 300 yard performances that are considered great works of art by a QB are mostly 3 quarter performances with running out the 4th.

 

I watched the game and Losman was below average until the 4th.

[ajzepp]

Lest we forget that he stank against the Jets and half his yards were in the 4th against a prevent defense. 300 yards is great, but have 200 with 2 TDs by the end of the 4th.

 

Most 300 yard performances that are considered great works of art by a QB are mostly 3 quarter performances with running out the 4th.

 

I watched the game and Losman was below average until the 4th.

827335[/snapback]

 

Okay, fair enough....I guess my point is that I expected him to have big games here and there, and then minimize mistakes over time. If he were doing more of that, I think a lot of people would be feeling a bit more confident in the guy.

[BuffOrange]

It just reinforces my theory that Bills fans will never be happy with what the Bills do

826976[/snapback]

 

Because they beat a crappy team at home in a meaningless game? Interesting theory.

[bill in Livonia]

No I can't remember a time of so much gloom.

That being said. We get farther and farther away from the glory years and see more and more poor performance. Every year we buy into the rosy picture painted by "them" ( management, the press etc.} and we are again disapointed. we try to keep a good out-look but it is getting harder. It has been approx. 8 yrs that we have had a sub-par O-line. every year they try to put a bandaid on a bleeding wound.

I will continue to follow the BILLS but I need a little encouragement'

GO BILLS!

[MRW]

so if we find ourselves talking about that ONE thing JP did durign the game, then I think that's a problem.

827321[/snapback]

I dunno, I'm also thinking about the things he didn't do, such as fumble, or throw a pick in the red zone, or throw a pick that got returned for a TD. Considering the offensive line shuffling we did, it pleases me quite a bit that the team avoided the big mistake. I certainly wasn't looking for an offensive explosion, and I think those who were were deluding themselves.

[ajzepp]

I dunno, I'm also thinking about the things he didn't do, such as fumble, or throw a pick in the red zone, or throw a pick that got returned for a TD.  Considering the offensive line shuffling we did, it pleases me quite a bit that the team avoided the big mistake.  I certainly wasn't looking for an offensive explosion, and I think those who were were deluding themselves.

827428[/snapback]

 

Okay, well why WEREN'T you looking for more offense? Someone else posted what QBs have done against the GB defense, and JP is at the bottom of the list. Do you really think we can hang with the Colts next week if we're throwing for 100 yards? Even if the defense plays well, you've got to score points.

 

I dunno...I'm just frustrated with this team right now....llike a lot of other folks.

[mcjeff215]

Having been here in those days I can recall the endless qb debates, but not the despair after a Bills win.

Again, maybe it's me.

826985[/snapback]

 

Lots of debate, heated at times, but there was always optimism. Some of the Mularkey games produced this type of feeling I think.

 

Like I said in the chat room, I think we were the blind squrrel this weekend. The team played like crap, On top of that, the only constant this season has been suck, which doesn't produce any feeling of upward swing or hope.

 

For whatever reason, we're sucking. It feels like we're going to continue sucking for quite some time. I think the reaction you're seeing is that of people getting used to it.

 

There were a few bright spots. The turnovers were a good sign. Our 'D' as a whole played a better game. The whole team has to click. Also, a less-than-positive outlook doesn't render someone a "lesser fan" or any such thing. It's much like seeing your favorite band in concert and showing frustration at bad accoustics.

 

-Jeff

[Dan]

I gotta say this is all just priceless.

 

First, Favre lost the game?! Does anyone give our Defense credit for creating any of those turnovers or pressures? Or were they just out there walking around waiting for Favre, the almighty, to make a mistake? I swear, its like our defense didn't do anything. The only reason the Pack didn't score was because the Pack made mistakes.

 

Sickening. That's what that is. I expect that kind of drivel from the national media, but not from supposed Bills fans. Did any of you idiots bother to consider the fact that maybe our defense just played a good game for once?

 

Second, JP badly under throws Evans on those 2 plays?! Friggin insane! How often do you see QBs throw the ball short and the reciever has to stop, adjust and catch the ball. I'm not sure they're all designed that way; but I'd venture a guess that almost once every game by every team in the league a pass is thrown short and the receiver stops and gets the ball (or he stops and the DB runs into him and gets pass interference). JP does this and OMG he sucks; he can't hit Evans in stride! The ball hit Evans on the damn hands! He should catch it period. That miss is completely, 100% on Evans. End of discussion.

 

On the touchdown pass, did any one else notice the guy rushing right up the middle, hitting JP as he throws the ball?!? He couldn't step into the throw at all. I was surprised he got the ball off at all. But, he did and actually hit a wide open Evans who walks in for the touchdown. Yet, who cares, because the pass wasn't pretty. Nevermind JP got laid on his ass immediately after the throw.

 

And this pass, is after a penalty. 8 minutes left in the game. The Pack has all the momentum, just scoring 10 points to tie the game. We desparately needed a play, just 1 play - and we got it. But, yet we all still want "the ball in the endzone". News flash, it was a touchdown. We all still want JP to lead a game winning drive in the 4th quarter. Newsflash, that's what he did. We all want the team to play a full 60 minutes. Newsflash, they did - scoring 2 touchdowns in the 4th quarter to win the game. When was the last time, we got the ball and kneeled down to end the game?

 

I'm sorry, it's not that JP or anyone on the defense did anything good; rather the Packers let us win out of their kind generosity.

 

Do we need to improve? Absolutely! Do we need a new fanbase? Absolutely. Because I've never seen so many idiots complaining when they're seeing (1) exactly what they wanted to see and (2) what we all knew we were going to see back in August.

 

The greatest joy I'll get from the rest of this season is seeing all the idiots here blow a gasket watching JP play, because guess what? JP's not going anywhere. Listen to Jauron, JP is here for the time being. So, you might as well suck it up for the long haul because it's going to get worse before it gets better.

 

Ridiculous, it is.

[MRW]

Okay, well why WEREN'T you looking for more offense?

827435[/snapback]

Because I've been watching this team all season.

 

Do you really think we can hang with the Colts next week

827435[/snapback]

No.

[ajzepp]

Because I've been watching this team all season.

No.

827464[/snapback]

 

LOL!

[bdelma]

Beace the Bills continued to spin in the mud/ Nothing will ever change it seems there. Bring back Joe Pendry!

[Scraps]

I gotta say this is all just priceless. 

 

First,  Favre lost the game?!  Does anyone give our Defense credit for creating any of those turnovers or pressures? Or were they just out there walking around waiting for Favre, the almighty, to make a mistake?  I swear, its like our defense didn't do anything.  The only reason the Pack didn't score was because the Pack made mistakes. 

827453[/snapback]

 

Our defense was responsible for the botched snaps?

[BuffOrange]

I gotta say this is all just priceless. 

 

First,  Favre lost the game?!  Does anyone give our Defense credit for creating any of those turnovers or pressures? Or were they just out there walking around waiting for Favre, the almighty, to make a mistake?  I swear, its like our defense didn't do anything.  The only reason the Pack didn't score was because the Pack made mistakes. 

 

Sickening.  That's what that is.  I expect that kind of drivel from the national media, but not from supposed Bills fans.  Did any of you idiots bother to consider the fact that maybe our defense just played a good game for once? 

 

Second, JP badly under throws Evans on those 2 plays?!  Friggin insane!  How often do you see QBs throw the ball short and the reciever has to stop, adjust and catch the ball.  I'm not sure they're all designed that way; but I'd venture a guess that almost once every game by every team in the league a pass is thrown short and the receiver stops and gets the ball (or he stops and the DB runs into him and gets pass interference).  JP does this and OMG he sucks; he can't hit Evans in stride!    The ball hit Evans on the damn hands!  He should catch it period.  That miss is completely, 100% on Evans.  End of discussion.

 

On the touchdown pass, did any one else notice the guy rushing right up the middle, hitting JP as he throws the ball?!? He couldn't step into the throw at all.  I was surprised he got the ball off at all.  But, he did and actually hit a wide open Evans who walks in for the touchdown.  Yet, who cares, because the pass wasn't pretty.  Nevermind JP got laid on his ass immediately after the throw.

 

And this pass, is after a penalty.  8 minutes left in the game. The Pack has all the momentum, just scoring 10 points to tie the game.  We desparately needed a play, just 1 play - and we got it.  But, yet we all still want "the ball in the endzone".  News flash, it was a touchdown.  We all still want JP to lead a game winning drive in the 4th quarter.  Newsflash, that's what he did.  We all want the team to play a full 60 minutes.  Newsflash, they did - scoring 2 touchdowns in the 4th quarter to win the game. When was the last time, we got the ball and kneeled down to end the game?

 

I'm sorry, it's not that JP or anyone on the defense did anything good; rather the Packers let us win out of their kind generosity.

 

Do we need to improve? Absolutely!  Do we need a new fanbase? Absolutely.  Because I've never seen so many idiots complaining when they're seeing (1) exactly what they wanted to see and (2) what we all knew we were going to see back in August. 

 

The greatest joy I'll get from the rest of this season is seeing all the idiots here blow a gasket watching JP play, because guess what? JP's not going anywhere.  Listen to Jauron, JP is here for the time being.  So, you might as well suck it up for the long haul because it's going to get worse before it gets better.

 

Ridiculous, it is.

827453[/snapback]

 

 

Your blind fanboy cheerleader crap is what's ridiculous.

 

Just so we're consistent - when we killed the Jets statistically, we didn't lose the game right? The Jets just won it with their top notch swiss cheese defense?