So Moulds IS getting some play

[crackur]

You're forgetting about his major knee injury.  Brandon Lloyd is healthy, Walker didn't play and is a major question mark at this point.

642559[/snapback]

UHHH

re-read............he said IF javon is healthy etc..........

[mikecole1]

I like the trade straight up with a pick or two from Green Bay, even if salaries are comparable. I agree with sentiments on here that it's Packers whose' backs are up against a wall. I don't like the deal as it is currently being reported.

 

Marv needs to craft this where we are getting something of value in return if Walker proves to be a flameout - where it's a step up from releasing Moulds outright.

 

Even if Walker doesn't pan out, we can let him go after a year and save the money under the cap. Make it a TO/one-year contract type scenario like Dallas constructed.

 

Two years ago, Walker was among the top five wide receivers in the game statistically speaking, so there may be some upside here. Another bonus is that Walker let go Rosenhaus as his agent during the past season.

 

I'd rather have Marv do something sooner rather than later, avoiding another Donahoe situation where Travis Henry's value declined as the season got closer.

[BADOLBILZ]

Some of you are overestimating the value of moulds at this point.  If you think a str8 up trade moulds for walker you're nuts.  Walker is a premier young receiver who has his best years ahead of him.  Moulds has declined every season in the last 5 years, and only has a couple of potentially OK seasons left.  In the NFL, he's an old man.

 

Brandon Loyd was traded to washington for a 3rd rounder this year and a fourth in 2007 (sound familiar?).  Like Walker, Lloyd was also a malcontent in SF and wanted out.  That is setting the market for a leading receiver.  Walker if healthy is better than Lloyd.  So in essence it is that same deal, plus Moulds for a 5th round pick.

 

I think washington, as usual, overpaid for Lloyd...which is hurting us hear.

 

If I was Marv, I would consider it if Javon is healthy.  It sounds a little pricey to me.  I might argue that Moulds is worth at least a 4th round pick, rather than a 5th.  So either they give us their 4th rounder this year, or we give them a 5th rounder instead of a 4th in 2007.

642551[/snapback]

 

You're right, Moulds for Walker isn't equal value by any means. But considering:

 

A)Walker is coming off ACL and may be another year from top form

 

B)He wants a huge contract, probably $8M per season with a $15M+ bonus

 

C)The Bills don't have a NEED at the position. They may not be great, but Evans, Parrish, Reed and Davis are all being paid like guys who are expected to be catching passes, and Reed and Davis were JUST signed.

 

The Bills should have a serious upper hand in any deal that involves the Bills losing draft picks (or value).

 

Sometimes the team with the upper hand gets a much better deal, see Miami trading a lowly second for Culpepper, a young QB one year removed from one of the 5 greatest passing seasons of all time.

[turftoe]

UHHH

re-read............he said IF javon is healthy etc..........

642561[/snapback]

 

You are correct. To me IF he is healthy needs to be the first thing out of your mouth when you talk about trading for Walker. I'll retract my post.

[Buftex]

  In fact, even without Moulds, wr is probably one of the better units on this team.

 

642547[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Yeah, because beyond Lee Evans, we have Josh Reed (everyone's whipping boy the last three years), Sam Aiken (good special teamer, not such a great receiver), Roscoe Parrish (I predict another TD bust- even if he is not, he is not built to be an every down reciever), Freddie Smith (he did return a kick for a td against New England in a Pats romp two years ago!), Charles Wilson (Ralphs' son?)...you are right, this is a powerhouse unit. No sense in getting a fifth year upper echelon reciever, if not injured, entering his prime, for a good vetran on the downside of his career...

 

I agree, maybe the Pack wants a little too much, draft pick wise, but Marv and company would be absolute fools not to explore this. Maybe one of those draft picks could be predicated on Walkers' production for us, this year.

 

This is likely the most tangible value the Bills will ever be offered for Moulds. I think people are getting too caught up in the draft picks...is a fourth round draft pick any more of a gamble than an excellent reciever coming off of a knee injury? Don't forget, we would be getting Jevon Walker too!

 

If the Bills are serious about wanting to give Losman or Nall a chance to develop their skills, having a good receiving corp would seem essential, since we seem to be striking out on solidfying our offensive line. I am kind of shocked that so many are so vehemently opposed to this trade proposal...

[crackur]

You're right, Moulds for Walker isn't equal value by any means.  But considering:

 

A)Walker is coming off ACL and may be another year from top form

 

B)He wants a huge contract, probably $8M per season  with a $15M+ bonus

 

C)The Bills don't have a NEED at the position.  They may not be great, but Evans, Parrish, Reed and Davis are all being paid like guys who are expected to be catching passes, and Reed and Davis were JUST signed.

 

The Bills should have a serious upper hand in any deal that involves the Bills losing draft picks (or value). 

 

Sometimes the team with the upper hand gets a much better deal, see Miami trading a lowly second for Culpepper, a young QB one year removed from one of the 5 greatest passing seasons of all time.

642564[/snapback]

he knows he can't ask for that kind of cash after being hurt.........he will start out avg then go up by playmaking ability.........kinda incentive deal or something

[crackur]

   

Yeah, because beyond Lee Evans, we have Josh Reed (everyone's whipping boy the last three years), Sam Aiken (good special teamer, not such a great receiver), Roscoe Parrish (I predict another TD bust- even if he is not, he is not built to be an every down reciever), Freddie Smith (he did return a kick for a td against New England in a Pats romp two years ago!), Charles Wilson (Ralphs' son?)...you are right, this is a powerhouse unit.  No sense in getting a fifth year upper echelon reciever, if not injured, entering his prime, for a good vetran on the downside of his career...

 

I agree, maybe the Pack wants a little too much, draft pick wise, but Marv and company would be absolute fools not to explore this.  This is likely the most tangible value the Bills will ever be offered for Moulds.  I think people are getting too caught up in the draft picks...is a fourth round draft pick any more of a gamble than an excellent reciever coming off of a knee injury.  Don't forget, we would be getting Jevon Walker too!

 

If the Bills are serious about wanting to give Losman or Nall a chance to develop their skills, having a good receiving corp would seem essential, since we seem to be striking out on solidfying our offensive line.  I am kind of shocked that so many are so vehemently opposed to this trade proposal...

642567[/snapback]

anything that might be good for the team ........we dont want here

[Coach Tuesday]

Walker was one of the top 5, if not top 3 receivers in the League before he got hurt. He is (was?) big, fast and explosive - reminded me a lot of Moulds in his earlier days, but plays even bigger.

 

The big question, as many have said, is what his physical condition is. My biggest fear is that one of two things happen: Walker plays lights-out, and we lose him, or Walker spends the year recovering his ACL on the Bills' dime and time, and we lose him. Neither of those scenarios are good. This has to be a very tricky trade, involving, first, a physical (obviously), second, performance-based compensation to the Packers (i.e., we don't throw in a high draft pick unless Walker plays a certain amount of snaps, etc.), and third, a performance-based contract extension to Walker to give us more than a one-year flyer on the guy.

 

If they can pull all of that off, they HAVE to do the deal.

 

BTW, if they don't, I bet the Patriots trade for Walker.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Moulds will go to whoever is willing to pay his contract in full.  It doesn't matter who it is.

Sure it does. If Moulds is expecting to get his contract paid in full by another team, he's NOT going to get it. No team will pay him $13M for the next 2 years. He'll have to do as he said and take less to play for a "contender." And Green Bay is NOT a contender, and as such, Moulds will probably DEMAND that his contract be fulfilled if traded to them, which makes the trade unpalatable for Green Bay. Hence the ridiculous trade offer on their part.

 

And Walker suffered his injury prior to the start of the season. I don't see him being back before the start of THIS regular season, which would pretty much make him useless this year. And on top of that, he'll want a huge salary with guarantees.

[BuffBills#1]

Does anyone know if this is actually a legit offer though?

[Tipster19]

Moulds needs to go. If Walker is healthy or even if he will be, then we should work out a deal IMMEDIATELY! Before he was hurt the guy was the BOMB! I wonder how much Nall could influence this situation. He would know more about the inside situation about Walker and Green Bay than most I would think.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

There is NO WAY I'm giving up 2 picks that are BOTH higher than than the ONE pick Green Bay would be giving up, to pickup an injured WR.

[Tipster19]

No but we do need to work SOMETHING out. I would love to have a healthy Walker on our team.

[Coach Tuesday]

There is NO WAY I'm giving up 2 picks that are BOTH higher than than the ONE pick Green Bay would be giving up, to pickup an injured WR.

642583[/snapback]

 

What if the picks are variable and performance-based, and Walker agrees to an incentive-laden contract extension as a condition to the trade?

[Buftex]

There is NO WAY I'm giving up 2 picks that are BOTH higher than than the ONE pick Green Bay would be giving up, to pickup an injured WR.

642583[/snapback]

 

 

Of course, any trade would be contigent upon Walker being inspected by Bills doctors. And it would also, likely, be contigent upon the Bills being able to work out a contract extension with Walker. If he is healthy (and what I have read nothing to suggest that he won't recover from this injury in time to play in 2006), he is a better player, at this point, than Moulds. Why is everyone so caught up on later round draft picks? Walker is not just a run of the mill reciever, and he is young...he and Evans could be unbelivable together...

[MadBuffaloDisease]

It takes at least a year for a player to come back from an ACL injury. He injured his knee on September 11th last year, meaning you can't reasonably expect him to come back before then, which means he misses all of the off-season, training camp, and pre-season. At best I'd do a straight-up trade for the 2, MAYBE giving a conditional pick if Walker plays and plays well this year.

[obie_wan]

UHHH

re-read............he said IF javon is healthy etc..........

642561[/snapback]

 

There is no way to tell right now if Walker will ever be healthy again

[superbowl]

No way do we give up Moulds for what they are saying Walker and a 5th. We do it with Moulds and a third for their #1 pick, fifth overall.

[BEAST MODE BABY!]

You guys are getting your panties in a bunch over the first offer? We haven't even countered. Do you people ever purchase a car, because if you do, it seems most of you would storm out of the dealership at their first offer. If Green Bay has been this quick to make us an offer, then there will certainly be more teams who will be in the game also.

[BuffBills#1]

Why is everyone talking about this like Green Bay really offered this. Just because one person said he "heard" something we think it might happen? This is stupid and untill I see prove I have to assume this post is false.

[2003Contenders]

Why is everyone talking about this like Green Bay really offered this.  Just because one person said he "heard" something we think it might happen?  This is stupid and untill I see prove I have to assume this post is false.

642614[/snapback]

 

 

True, and on top of that... Even if GB did offer this, that means it is the starting point for negotiations. You'd have to expect Marv to counter with something a little more equitable for the Bills -- if the original report is true.

[Mile High]

Why is everyone talking about this like Green Bay really offered this.  Just because one person said he "heard" something we think it might happen?  This is stupid and untill I see prove I have to assume this post is false.

642614[/snapback]

Check out other message boards. Apparently I'm not the only one who heard it last night.

[turftoe]

True, and on top of that... Even if GB did offer this, that means it is the starting point for negotiations. You'd have to expect Marv to counter with something a little more equitable for the Bills -- if the original report is true.

642626[/snapback]

 

Maybe there are sources "from deep within."

[Rico]

Absolutely not... no way do you lose a day 1 pick in this year's draft.

 

Moulds for a draft pick, hell yes!

 

Plus, there's no guarantee that Walker will come back 100% or that he wants to go to Buffalo.

[Buffalo Wing]

Moulds - 6'2", 210 lbs, 32 years old

Walker - 6'3", 215 lbs, 27 years old

 

The game is all about matchups - mismatches that is. Moulds is more often than not a mismatch in terms of size and strength on a cornerback (I still say he is the strongest receiver in the league). Same holds true with Walker - definite mismatch on a cornerback. Granted, this only holds true if Walker is healthy. That being said, if you had an offense with Walker, Evans, Vernon Davis, and McGahee, can you say "HOLY MACKEREL TED MARCHIBRODA!". At that point, you could still have an average offensive line and an average quarterback...and just let the fun start....just give the ball to the one that has the greatest mismatch.

 

And I would make the draft pick a conditional pick for the 2007 draft. Depending on production, it could range from anywhere from a 2nd round to a 6th round. Then, in this year's draft, you snag Vernon Davis in the 1st round, and then a defensive tackle, and two offensive guards to round out Day 1.

 

The other wildcard in this deal could be Mark Roman, the Green Bay strong safety. Supposedly he wants out of Green Bay as well. Throw him in the deal and I will ask Marv to throw in one of our 3rd round picks. Then, maybe, we could finally say goodbye to Mr. Wire!

[Pyrate]

Guys it's a 3rd and a 4th rounder it's not the end of the world.

We'd probably use one of those on a WR anyway

 

When's the last time a 3rd or 4th rounder drafted by Buffalo was an all pro? Andre Reed?

[Matt in KC]

Guys it's a 3rd and a 4th rounder it's not the end of the world.

We'd probably use one of those on a WR anyway

 

When's the last time a 3rd or 4th rounder drafted by Buffalo was an all pro? Andre Reed?

642639[/snapback]

Terrence McGee in 2003?

[The Tomcat]

Jason Peters...oh wait...he was a free agent signing....never mind

 

Kevin Everett was a third rounder.....

[BADOLBILZ]

   

Yeah, because beyond Lee Evans, we have Josh Reed (everyone's whipping boy the last three years), Sam Aiken (good special teamer, not such a great receiver), Roscoe Parrish (I predict another TD bust- even if he is not, he is not built to be an every down reciever), Freddie Smith (he did return a kick for a td against New England in a Pats romp two years ago!), Charles Wilson (Ralphs' son?)...you are right, this is a powerhouse unit.  No sense in getting a fifth year upper echelon reciever, if not injured, entering his prime, for a good vetran on the downside of his career...

 

I agree, maybe the Pack wants a little too much, draft pick wise, but Marv and company would be absolute fools not to explore this. Maybe one of those draft picks could be predicated on Walkers' production for us, this year.

 

This is likely the most tangible value the Bills will ever be offered for Moulds.  I think people are getting too caught up in the draft picks...is a fourth round draft pick any more of a gamble than an excellent reciever coming off of a knee injury?  Don't forget, we would be getting Jevon Walker too! 

 

If the Bills are serious about wanting to give Losman or Nall a chance to develop their skills, having a good receiving corp would seem essential, since we seem to be striking out on solidfying our offensive line.  I am kind of shocked that so many are so vehemently opposed to this trade proposal...

642567[/snapback]

 

The Bills receiving corps is mediocre, but the rest of the team is barrel scrapings by comparison. I'm not against trading Moulds for Walker, but just not giving up draft value. WR should not be a top priority considering the mess they are in.

 

If they don't fix the lines, the skill players will not be in position to produce and if they don't pay Walker, he'll be Walk-ing next offseason. Bottom line: not a priority and not worth losing a player in the third round this year. Like I said, an early third this year is probably worth as much as the #1 the Bills received from Atlanta for Peerless Price. That pick will be a very good offensive lineman, a crying need.

[Rico]

Right now, I cannot wait for Draft Day, Having 4 of the top 73 picks in a VERY deep draft is going to be so sweet! Taking that impact player at #8, then adding another stud in the early 2nd round (probably a 1st-round player any other year).

And then, those 2 almost-consecutive picks near the top of the 3rd-round... THAT will be fun! and it will make up for a conservative FA season... not complaining now, but I'm just REALLY looking forward to this draft!

 

I do NOT want to see the Packers taking someone like Latui with our 3rd-rounder, with nothing but a crippled WR to show for it.

[dave mcbride]

The Bills receiving corps is mediocre, but the rest of the team is barrel scrapings by comparison.  I'm not against trading Moulds for Walker, but just not giving up draft value.  WR should not be a top priority considering the mess they are in.

 

If they don't fix the lines, the skill players will not be in position to produce and if they don't pay Walker, he'll be Walk-ing next offseason.  Bottom line: not a priority and not worth losing a player in the third round this year.  Like I said, an early third this year is probably worth as much as the #1 the Bills received from Atlanta for Peerless Price.  That pick will be a very good offensive lineman, a crying need.

642658[/snapback]

badol, any thoughts about trading down in the first (say, swapping our pick and a 4th for denver's 2 firsts) so that the bills end up with 5 picks in the top 73? that's what i'm favoring at this point.

 

i agree about the receivers - they're not that bad of a group. tight end is a far greater need anyway.

[Buftex]

The Bills receiving corps is mediocre, but the rest of the team is barrel scrapings by comparison.  I'm not against trading Moulds for Walker, but just not giving up draft value.  WR should not be a top priority considering the mess they are in.

 

If they don't fix the lines, the skill players will not be in position to produce and if they don't pay Walker, he'll be Walk-ing next offseason.  Bottom line: not a priority and not worth losing a player in the third round this year.  Like I said, an early third this year is probably worth as much as the #1 the Bills received from Atlanta for Peerless Price.  That pick will be a very good offensive lineman, a crying need.

642658[/snapback]

 

 

I see what you mean, but I still think that the WR corps, without Moulds will be less than mediocre. What does that mean? We will not know if Losman or Nall can play, really...like I said, any trade for Walker should be contigent upon his health (Bills doctors would have to give him a good diagnosis)and a contract extension.

 

I really think people are freaking out a little too much about the draft picks. At some point, the Bills would have to draft a WR...and then wait the customary 3 years to be sure if he is any good...why not get a guy who is already a known commodity, and known to be pretty damn good...sign him to a five year deal...I guess there seems to be a majority who would prefer to get another late round draft pick for Moulds, or just let him go?

[BADOLBILZ]

badol, any thoughts about trading down in the first (say, swapping our pick and a 4th for denver's 2 firsts) so that the bills end up with 5 picks in the top 73? that's what i'm favoring at this point.

 

i agree about the receivers - they're not that bad of a group. tight end is a far greater need anyway.

642661[/snapback]

 

I like Mario Williams, Ferguson and Vernon Davis in that order as picks at #8, if none are there I would hope they could trade out. I was really hoping for Davis a couple months ago, but somehow the Bills managed to make more holes than they already had coming into this offseason and now TE has probably lost some of it's priority. I think Denver has enough ammunition to trade up well ahead of us now, and my guess is they will, for either Williams or a QB.

[colin]

now i deserve to be tarred and feathered for a post saying something besides "TEH OLINE YOUR GHEY IF YOU DON'T BANG THE O LINE DRUM AND THE OLINE DRUM ONLY! GET R DONE MARV"

 

but we had a bad line in 02 and a great overall O because of our weapons (and QB play too, but let's pretend we have that now).

 

if we have a chance of super chargin our weapons with a guy like walker, and even perhaps with a vernon davis in the draft (or merc lewis in the 2nd?) it might be the best move to make now.

 

we do need o line (and some D line) but adding the best young talent to our team possible would really put us on the path of being a strong team for a while.

 

i think we need big men, but we need great players in every position and if we have a shot at one we should take it.

[Dan]

I can't even read all this, nor should I. Anyone advocating this trade just spent all their credibility.

 

We give our top receiver and 2 picks. They give their top receiver and 1 pick. Let me simplify the math 3=2.

 

How is that something anyone other than a Packer fan would like?!? Unless you argue that Walker is twice as good as Moulds, which we know that's not that case, this is complete bunk.

 

Maybe, maybe you consider it if we give up 1 pick and they give up 2. Then we could entertain the thought of whether or not we want Walker.

[Mantis Toboggan M.D]

I think Javon Walker and a 5th for Moulds and our 4th wouldnt be too bad of a trade. Truth is moulds wont be around for that much longer so giving up an earlier round pick wouldnt be too bad.

[Brandon]

badol, any thoughts about trading down in the first (say, swapping our pick and a 4th for denver's 2 firsts) so that the bills end up with 5 picks in the top 73? that's what i'm favoring at this point.

 

i agree about the receivers - they're not that bad of a group. tight end is a far greater need anyway.

642661[/snapback]

 

The Vikings might also be a good target for a trade. They have the 17th, 48th, and 51st overall picks. That would basically be equal to a trade of the Bills 8th pick and the 70th pick.

[Nick in RaChaCha]

Walker is coming off an injury - Knee I believe. I like a straight up trade for Walker... possible give GB out 7th rounder this year.

[BADOLBILZ]

now i deserve to be tarred and feathered for a post saying something besides "TEH OLINE YOUR GHEY IF YOU DON'T BANG THE O LINE DRUM AND THE OLINE DRUM ONLY!  GET R DONE MARV"

 

but we had a bad line in 02 and a great overall O because of our weapons (and QB play too, but let's pretend we have that now).

 

if we have a chance of super chargin our weapons with a guy like walker, and even perhaps with a vernon davis in the draft (or merc lewis in the 2nd?) it might be the best move to make now.

 

we do need o line (and some D line) but adding the best young talent to our team possible would really put us on the path of being a strong team for a while.

 

i think we need big men, but we need great players in every position and if we have a shot at one we should take it.

642687[/snapback]

 

In 02' we had a horse at QB. He could take the 50 sacks and a ton of hits. Losman and Holcomb can't. Most QB's can't. That said, the 02' OL was a lot better than the junk we have now!

[frogger]

On NFL radio today, I heard an Idiot Pats fan (I know redundant) call in asking what they would have to trade to get Moulds, they all agreed a 2nd rounder. I would gladly take a 2nd rounder from the Pats. Wouldn't happen though.

that being said would walker get the same attention, no. Moulds is a proven WR over the last 7 years, while he has had ups and downs, at least he's had more than one up. Too many WR have one good year, and bank off of that (see David Boston, Peerless Price, and even Charles Johnson) if he had two good years, the trade value would be higher, the fact is Moulds and Walker straight up should be the deal, only because moulds' contract is so large compared to walker. to compensate $$ the Packs don't have to give us an additional pick