Let’s talk D

[wjag]

I think I have all but given up on the notion that the D is fixable.  Too many current injuries and too many past injuries have slowed players like Milano, Poyer, Johnson and White.  For the Bills to win, they simply have to be a beast on offense.  It seems to me the only true Buffalo defense is to stay on offense.

 

There probably isn't a person on this board that believes the Bills can stop anybody in 3rd and long.  The lack of a consistent pass rush, poor tackling and poor scheme seemingly get exposed each week.  As my father used to say, it is what it is.

[RyanC883]

On 11/17/2025 at 5:49 PM, Shaw66 said:

I agree.  All Beane did was get Bosa, Sanders, Walker, Hoecht, Ogunjobi, and Lawson.  I'm surprised Beane still has a job. 

 

Yeah, except Bosa they could be called "the JAG corp".  You forgot Basham.  

[Big Turk]

54 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Yeah, except Bosa they could be called "the JAG corp".  You forgot Basham.  

 

Walker is a "JAG"?  You don't really watch games very closely I am guessing.

[nosejob]

21 hours ago, Carmel Corn said:

All I know is that our front seven do not stop the run well and lack a pass rush.  Bad combination!  Our DB’s have to make far too many tackles.  

I don't get it. When you want to get a 3rd and short on offense go 6 OL or big package. Almost always works. Well why not do an extra lineman in that situation on defense? This is gonna be the new big thing for teams in the league to counter the resurgence of the run game....and generate pressure all at once.

Can't we be ahead of the curve for once?

 

We all saw what happened with Hoecht...for 7 qtrs. We can't give up on that. Hopefully Fox will do that. I thought we hired some Dline guru?

[Solomon Grundy]

23 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

This is yards AFTER CONTACT. So even if we are making the fits, we arent getting it done.

 

Babich needs to go, and McD needs to follow him. This is horrendous and costing us Championship opportunities as we waste Josh's career.

Is this as simple as a tackling problem?

[GunnerBill]

21 hours ago, Avisan said:

You recognize that firing coaches is an absurd response to players being in the right position but not able to finish the play, right?

 

Exactly. If that stat does anything it absolves the coaches of blame somewhat. You can say "well they should practice tackling more" but you don't know that they don't do that already. 

 

Players have to be accountable. They have to tackle. That is on them to do their ***** jobs that they have very highly remunerated for.

[uticaclub]

On 11/17/2025 at 2:49 PM, Shaw66 said:

I agree.  All Beane did was get Bosa, Sanders, Walker, Hoecht, Ogunjobi, and Lawson.  I'm surprised Beane still has a job. 

Aren’t we all

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Is this as simple as a tackling problem?

 

Tackling has definitely been a huge issue. That's no secret.

 

Which is CRAZY to me since it is the basic foundation these guys would have learned since they were 10 years old. And I refuse to believe all these players made it from highly rated High School recruits through D1 College Programs and drafted to the NFL without knowing how to tackle previously.

 

Something in the coaching or scheme has these guys twisted up. Whether they are being coached to be too aggressive and not break down, or the scheme is confusing and they are just out of place and therefore taking bad angles, or what...

 

When an entire defense of players who made it to the pro ranks cant seem to tackle, I look up the ladder.

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Exactly. If that stat does anything it absolves the coaches of blame somewhat. You can say "well they should practice tackling more" but you don't know that they don't do that already. 

 

Players have to be accountable. They have to tackle. That is on them to do their ***** jobs that they have very highly remunerated for.

 

But it's all of them. And we know that McD runs some of the lightest contact practices/camps. So I can't absolve the coaching of anything.

 

If it was 1 or even 2 guys blowing all the tackles then maybe. But when it's seemingly everyone, everywhere...

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I truly believe 90% of our problems on defense is the coaching. It’s the only thing that hasn’t changed. It’s not 7 groups of players that are all bad. I will basically guarantee that a guy like Schwartz, Wade Phillips, Fangio takes these exact players and our defense is good.
 

The philosophical tendencies of McDermott is going to always give you what it gives you. And he’s very stubborn. There’s no mystery and the league figured him out years ago. We had generational safety play for the early part of his tenure. Those guys were erasers. They made plays from nothing and they took the ball away. You can’t rely on that. They got old and we never were never making stops to begin with. The coaching is the problem and unfortunately we are stuck with it. I wish we would tell McDermott to just be the head coach. Treat the defense how you treat the offense. Another guy from the outside is going to come in and make wholesale changes and you just worry about being the HC. Stay out of the room, stay out of the way.

[Avisan]

9 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I truly believe 90% of our problems on defense is the coaching. It’s the only thing that hasn’t changed. It’s not 7 groups of players that are all bad. I will basically guarantee that a guy like Schwartz, Wade Phillips, Fangio takes these exact players and our defense is good.
 

The philosophical tendencies of McDermott is going to always give you what it gives you. And he’s very stubborn. There’s no mystery and the league figured him out years ago. We had generational safety play for the early part of his tenure. Those guys were erasers. They made plays from nothing and they took the ball away. You can’t rely on that. They got old and we never were never making stops to begin with. The coaching is the problem and unfortunately we are stuck with it. I wish we would tell McDermott to just be the head coach. Treat the defense how you treat the offense. Another guy from the outside is going to come in and make wholesale changes and you just worry about being the HC. Stay out of the room, stay out of the way.

The Bills' defense isn't bad, though.  It's slightly better than league average despite experiencing a significant slate of injuries.

 

This fanbase acts like the defense is a travesty, but even last year when we suffered terribly on third downs, we were still a slightly-below-average unit.  You would think we were bottom-tier the way some of y'all talk.  We're so spoiled by more than half a decade of good defenses that being average has become unacceptable, regardless of the circumstances.  It's wild.

[nosejob]

23 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I truly believe 90% of our problems on defense is the coaching. It’s the only thing that hasn’t changed. It’s not 7 groups of players that are all bad. I will basically guarantee that a guy like Schwartz, Wade Phillips, Fangio takes these exact players and our defense is good.
 

The philosophical tendencies of McDermott is going to always give you what it gives you. And he’s very stubborn. There’s no mystery and the league figured him out years ago. We had generational safety play for the early part of his tenure. Those guys were erasers. They made plays from nothing and they took the ball away. You can’t rely on that. They got old and we never were never making stops to begin with. The coaching is the problem and unfortunately we are stuck with it. I wish we would tell McDermott to just be the head coach. Treat the defense how you treat the offense. Another guy from the outside is going to come in and make wholesale changes and you just worry about being the HC. Stay out of the room, stay out of the way.

Problem is the defense is best when he's calling it....instead of leaving it to the underling he promoted.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

7 minutes ago, nosejob said:

Problem is the defense is best when he's calling it....instead of leaving it to the underling he promoted.

It’s horrible either way 

[GunnerBill]

53 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

But it's all of them. And we know that McD runs some of the lightest contact practices/camps. So I can't absolve the coaching of anything.

 

If it was 1 or even 2 guys blowing all the tackles then maybe. But when it's seemingly everyone, everywhere...

 

Do we? I don't know that.

 

What I do know is Joey Bosa is a limiter effort tackler. What I do know is Milano, White, Poyer and Taron Johnson are slower than they used to be and so are not always getting there at the right angle. What I do know is Dorian Williams has taken bad angles his entire career. What I do know is pad level has been an issue for Deone Walker through college and there have been times it has popped up this season. It has always been an issue for Jordan Phillips. 

 

Fans overblame coaching. Players have to make plays. 

[nosejob]

5 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

It’s horrible either way 

I thought it was Frazier all that time. Turns out he was just running the McD scheme. Rush fo and hope...

[GunnerBill]

44 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I truly believe 90% of our problems on defense is the coaching. It’s the only thing that hasn’t changed. It’s not 7 groups of players that are all bad. I will basically guarantee that a guy like Schwartz, Wade Phillips, Fangio takes these exact players and our defense is good.
 

The philosophical tendencies of McDermott is going to always give you what it gives you. And he’s very stubborn. There’s no mystery and the league figured him out years ago. We had generational safety play for the early part of his tenure. Those guys were erasers. They made plays from nothing and they took the ball away. You can’t rely on that. They got old and we never were never making stops to begin with. The coaching is the problem and unfortunately we are stuck with it. I wish we would tell McDermott to just be the head coach. Treat the defense how you treat the offense. Another guy from the outside is going to come in and make wholesale changes and you just worry about being the HC. Stay out of the room, stay out of the way.

 

The defense hasn't been bad through 7 groups of players.

[billsfan89]

The Bills defense is pretty much picking up from where it left off last season. Susceptible to be lit up by good offenses, capable of shutting down bad offenses and somewhere in the middle against mid-level offenses. Pretty much another averageish defense. The Bills rank 12th in defense by yards per game. They rank 18th in scoring defense. They have the second worst rushing defense in the league but the second best passing defense in the league. The Bills rank 10th in total sacks (with 2 teams ahead of them having played although only 1 of those teams is even close to the Bills sacks wise with the Chargers at 29 sacks 3 ahead of the Bills with an extra game played). 

 

With the resources poured into the defense (granted not massive resources but significant resources) you would think that the defense could be somewhat better than last season but that's not looking to be the case. I hope I am wrong as the later stages of the season go. 

 

I honestly would have no problem with this caliber of defense if the Bills didn't have a massive hole on the offensive side of the ball. If the Bills let's say didn't sign Bosa and one of the PED Twins and traded a 2nd for DK and had a "go to" WR plus added Palmer for depth and the Bills were just loaded on offense with no major issues I would be OK with saying hey you have a big QB contract and a lot of talent around him, you kind of in the NFL cap era have to live with just an OK defense. But that's just not the case. 

[SCBills]

22 hours ago, wjag said:

I think I have all but given up on the notion that the D is fixable.  Too many current injuries and too many past injuries have slowed players like Milano, Poyer, Johnson and White.  For the Bills to win, they simply have to be a beast on offense.  It seems to me the only true Buffalo defense is to stay on offense.

 

There probably isn't a person on this board that believes the Bills can stop anybody in 3rd and long.  The lack of a consistent pass rush, poor tackling and poor scheme seemingly get exposed each week.  As my father used to say, it is what it is.

I think they have hope on 3rd and longs because Benford is starting to look like himself again, Hairston clearly looks like he belongs out there and Cole Bishop is turning into a stud Safety. 
 

If all 3 of those guys continue to gel and we get anything out of Poyer/Hancock and Johnson/Lewis, this secondary can cover. 
 

The DL needs Sanders to become what they drafted him for desperately.   To be that passing down pass rusher from the interior.   They also need Bosa to get healthy and Rousseau to take a jump that maybe is never coming. 
 

Dorian Williams in the Hoecht role has some promise, but we need Sanders to come on so Solomon can go back to DE4.  He just gets stonewalled too often in that interior pass rush role. 

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Exactly. If that stat does anything it absolves the coaches of blame somewhat. You can say "well they should practice tackling more" but you don't know that they don't do that already. 

 

Players have to be accountable. They have to tackle. That is on them to do their ***** jobs that they have very highly remunerated for.

They also don't tackle in practice nearly as much as they used to back in the day 

 

It's why tackling is so sloppy with A lot of teams around the league

 

Watch Cincinnati tackle lol it is worse than Buffalo

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

They also don't tackle in practice nearly as much as they used to back in the day 

 

It's why tackling is so sloppy with A lot of teams around the league

 

Watch Cincinnati tackle lol it is worse than Buffalo

 

Agree once the season is started especially. That is the rules and the way the game has evolved. Is what it is. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

21 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The defense hasn't been bad through 7 groups of players.

Yeah we got it. You’re the only guy left. Our defense is probably good we’re all just missing it. Or no, they were good. 13 seconds, the other playoff losses they were really good the whole time. I feel ya. Don’t trust what we are seeing somehow they are good still