Bills Utter Collapse-- Jim Kubiak BN

[DapperCam]

4 hours ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

He had good “stats” last Sunday in Miami too … are you going to tell us he played well? 

He did somewhat have garbage time stats on Sunday, but the Bills were battling to get back into it until that redzone INT.

 

Would you say Allen has had a lot of “garbage time” stats this season? I would argue he’s had almost none, and maybe 100 yards of this past Sunday were when the game was realistically out of reach.

[HappyDays]

Chris Simms on the Bills offense vs Miami:

 

 

I considered making a new thread for this but it fits into this thread just fine. I recommend watching the entire 12 minute video.

 

Nothing he says here should surprise anyone. Highlights:

 

-When defenses are able to stop the run, we have no counterpunch. He points out when you face playoff defenses you will inevitably have a game where you can't get the run going, and we don't have any answers to overcome that.

 

-Way too much is on Allen in the pass game. Nothing about it is surgical, it's all on him to create big plays.

 

-He blames the personnel more than the play calling but does criticize the play calling for dipping into the same well way too many times. The same concepts are constantly showing up on film. We're attacking the same areas of the field over and over again and Miami's defense was clamping down on it.

 

-Miami was in zone most of the game, cover 3 specifically 67% of the time. He says they were easily passing off our various crossing routes and we had no way of attacking them outside to get them out of those looks. He says "Allen can throw comebacks while sitting on his ass" but we don't have those routes on the menu because of our personnel.

 

-He criticizes Coleman in particular. He says that several times Allen hits the top of his drop looking in Coleman's direction but Coleman hasn't gotten to his spot and/or is jogging, so Allen ends up having to move on in the read.

 

You can tell how flabbergasted Simms is that this is the offense we've built around Allen. An all-time physically gifted QB and we're just asking him to throw button hooks and short crossers. We spam the same boring play calls and we have no one to take advantage of Allen's arm downfield.

 

Edited 10 hours ago by HappyDays

[Mike R]

23 hours ago, Livinginthepast said:

This is all stuff we could see in the game.  The big question for me is why? Why do the Bills look like they are hungover in some games in the McD era? If this was the early 90s Bills it might be because they actually were! But this group? what is the excuse? Entitled players with little accountability? They didnt study any film? The coaches didnt study any film? Or maybe they desperately need a coach who is going to inspire them with a "win one for the Gipper" speech like Marv used to (not likely). On Sunday I was hoping for someone to get mad. Just 2 years ago we had Diggs getting in people's faces but now we have just a bunch of people on the sidelines looking shell shocked when things are going south.

Well said. This group does not seem to care and just doesn’t show up to play some weeks. I blame McD for putting up with this crap and no vocal leadership on the team. Josh needs to quit being a yes man and sulking in isolation on the sidelines. Somebody has to rally the troops. The effort is clearly not there on game day and it’s unacceptable.

[dorquemada]

11 hours ago, T.E. said:

It's really sad to look back on. That was the year. Everything had fallen into place. They were peaking at the right time.

 

All lost because our coaching staff didn’t understand that a touchback doesn't run any time off the clock. Or that a team with three timeouts doesn't need to use the sidelines. I will go to my grave believing that McDermott knowingly ceded a field goal attempt because he preferred that to risking a long pass to Hill. It's just disgusting to think about the overall incompetence and cowardice.

 

I dont care what anyone says, that was the worst coaching collapse in modern NFL history.  McD's gameday coaching is a day late, a dollar short, and built to stay that way.  What's the definition of insanity?

[Mike R]

13 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

McDermott as the head coach sets the tone.  And his shtick is bland and uninspiring.  He is not a football savant in the mold of many great coaches such as McVay or Shanahan.  Even Mike McDonald seems to be the new top kid on the block as far as having a ferocious defense.  Or is he a tough guy like a Dan Campbell, Bill
Cowher, or a Mike Ditka who just looks at you, and you get on board.  He is basically a nothing.  Just watching Hard Knocks left me thinking what player is going to be motivated by this milk toasty middle age softie. 

 

The game unraveled against Miami when on 4th and 1 on our first series after Bishop made a great interception, and the Bills crowd screaming at Hard Rock Stadium, McDermott took the safe route and punted from our own 34.  He totally took the air out of the team and the very pro Bills crowd.  We never regained the mojo after that weak call.  And that is what you get with McDermott.  (I was there sitting right where the ball was marked, and was very disappointed that we brought out the punting unit.)

 

Josh has been with the team for 8 years now.  He knows the program.  I am sure he is disillusioned with what McDermott and Beane bring to the team.  (If he isn't, he certainly should be.)  Lets hope he can get his head on straight this week against Tampa.  And then at Houston and Pittsburgh the following weeks.  All three games will not be easy.  And I certainly would rather be 9-3 then 6-6.  Its put up or shut time at One Bills Drive.  

Let me get this straight. You’re saying McD is a milk toasty middle age softie and his shtick is bland and uninspiring? 
That is the most comprehensive and accurate description of the Bills coach I have ever seen. Add in poor game plans and preparation and horrible in game decisions a failure to adapt and change play calling when teams are beating you and you have the current state of the Bills. They will never win a Super Bowl.
 

23 hours ago, bmur66 said:

Does anyone else think that limiting Cook might have been intentional because he injured his ankle the previous week? 

I think it had more to do with Miami's big d line and lb’s were dominating the Bills o line and rb’s and it wasn’t working. The Bills had no answer.

[dave mcbride]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Chris Simms on the Bills offense vs Miami:

 

 

I considered making a new thread for this but it fits into this thread just fine. I recommend watching the entire 12 minute video.

 

Nothing he says here should surprise anyone. Highlights:

 

-When defenses are able to stop the run, we have no counterpunch. He points out when you face playoff defenses you will inevitably have a game where you can't get the run going, and we don't have any answers to overcome that.

 

-Way too much is on Allen in the pass game. Nothing about it is surgical, it's all on him to create big plays.

 

-He blames the personnel more than the play calling but does criticize the play calling for dipping into the same well way too many times. The same concepts are constantly showing up on film. We're attacking the same areas of the field over and over again and Miami's defense was clamping down on it.

 

-Miami was in zone most of the game, cover 3 specifically 67% of the time. He says they were easily passing off our various crossing routes and we had no way of attacking them outside to get them out of those looks. He says "Allen can throw comebacks while sitting on his ass" but we don't have those routes on the menu because of our personnel.

 

-He criticizes Coleman in particular. He says that several times Allen hits the top of his drop looking in Coleman's direction but Coleman hasn't gotten to his spot and/or is jogging, so Allen ends up having to move on in the read.

 

You can tell how flabbergasted Simms is that this is the offense we've built around Allen. An all-time physically gifted QB and we're just asking him to throw button hooks and short crossers. We spam the same boring play calls and we have no one to take advantage of Allen's arm downfield.

 

Thank you. This is a lot more convincing than Kubiak. And Simms was a better player at the QB position than position Kubiak, for what it’s worth.

16 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

But again Dave, Jim Kubiak was a star quarterback in high school and in college where he was a 3 year starter. He set 22 school records at the Naval Academy. He played in the NFL for the Panthers, Colts and the Jets. He played in NFL Europe. He's coached college and in the Arena League. He runs a QB academy.

 

He has a lot of credibility even when he's critiquing Josh.

 

Watch the Chris Simms video in this thread at the top of page 17. It is to my mind more convincing than Kubiak. 

[Lost]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Chris Simms on the Bills offense vs Miami:

 

 

I considered making a new thread for this but it fits into this thread just fine. I recommend watching the entire 12 minute video.

 

Nothing he says here should surprise anyone. Highlights:

 

-When defenses are able to stop the run, we have no counterpunch. He points out when you face playoff defenses you will inevitably have a game where you can't get the run going, and we don't have any answers to overcome that.

 

-Way too much is on Allen in the pass game. Nothing about it is surgical, it's all on him to create big plays.

 

-He blames the personnel more than the play calling but does criticize the play calling for dipping into the same well way too many times. The same concepts are constantly showing up on film. We're attacking the same areas of the field over and over again and Miami's defense was clamping down on it.

 

-Miami was in zone most of the game, cover 3 specifically 67% of the time. He says they were easily passing off our various crossing routes and we had no way of attacking them outside to get them out of those looks. He says "Allen can throw comebacks while sitting on his ass" but we don't have those routes on the menu because of our personnel.

 

-He criticizes Coleman in particular. He says that several times Allen hits the top of his drop looking in Coleman's direction but Coleman hasn't gotten to his spot and/or is jogging, so Allen ends up having to move on in the read.

 

You can tell how flabbergasted Simms is that this is the offense we've built around Allen. An all-time physically gifted QB and we're just asking him to throw button hooks and short crossers. We spam the same boring play calls and we have no one to take advantage of Allen's arm downfield.

 

 

This deserves it's own thread.   It's really f'ing sad that the whole world can see these issues even going back to last year.   And the with the arrogance of Beane, McDermott and Brady they just didn't seem to care.  

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Lost said:

 

This deserves it's own thread.   It's really f'ing sad that the whole world can see these issues even going back to last year.   And the with the arrogance of Beane, McDermott and Brady they just didn't seem to care.  

Agreed, I think it deserves its own thread like Kubiak. It’s buried on page 17 of this one and I suspect a lot of folks will miss it as a consequence.

[BillsVet]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Chris Simms on the Bills offense vs Miami:

 

 

I considered making a new thread for this but it fits into this thread just fine. I recommend watching the entire 12 minute video.

 

Nothing he says here should surprise anyone. Highlights:

 

-When defenses are able to stop the run, we have no counterpunch. He points out when you face playoff defenses you will inevitably have a game where you can't get the run going, and we don't have any answers to overcome that.

 

-Way too much is on Allen in the pass game. Nothing about it is surgical, it's all on him to create big plays.

 

-He blames the personnel more than the play calling but does criticize the play calling for dipping into the same well way too many times. The same concepts are constantly showing up on film. We're attacking the same areas of the field over and over again and Miami's defense was clamping down on it.

 

-Miami was in zone most of the game, cover 3 specifically 67% of the time. He says they were easily passing off our various crossing routes and we had no way of attacking them outside to get them out of those looks. He says "Allen can throw comebacks while sitting on his ass" but we don't have those routes on the menu because of our personnel.

 

-He criticizes Coleman in particular. He says that several times Allen hits the top of his drop looking in Coleman's direction but Coleman hasn't gotten to his spot and/or is jogging, so Allen ends up having to move on in the read.

 

You can tell how flabbergasted Simms is that this is the offense we've built around Allen. An all-time physically gifted QB and we're just asking him to throw button hooks and short crossers. We spam the same boring play calls and we have no one to take advantage of Allen's arm downfield.

 

 

Thanks HD.  

 

And McD's takeaway after this game is to point at the OC and players who, admittedly bear some responsibility.  

 

Yet, the HC refuses to admit his off-season plan with the GM was to ignore the offense save for replacing Cooper with Palmer has failed.  Not much different than 2024's plan for that side of the ball.  

 

Using Josh this way is offensive malpractice.  He's also not blameless, but the problems are further upstream.  

 

We're beyond the point where the underlying root cause of this organization is the guy who has the most pull.  

Edited 3 hours ago by BillsVet

[Livinginthepast]

23 minutes ago, Mike R said:

Let me get this straight. You’re saying McD is a milk toasty middle age softie and his shtick is bland and uninspiring? 
That is the most comprehensive and accurate description of the Bills coach I have ever seen. Add in poor game plans and preparation and horrible in game decisions a failure to adapt and change play calling when teams are beating you and you have the current state of the Bills. They will never win a Super Bowl.
 

I think it had more to do with Miami's big d line and lb’s were dominating the Bills o line and rb’s and it wasn’t working. The Bills had no answer.

Many Bills fans feel eternally grateful for McD and Beane for making the Bills relevant again (I do as well). But a large part of the fan base feel compelled to say nothing and be polite when the same mistakes or poor decisions are made.  A large group of people on here regard any criticism of both a blasphemy, which is just odd to me. There is no point being Polyanna about this.

 

If Beane repeatedly misses on draft choices, signs players that are irrelevant to contracts where they are overpaid and cannot get impact trades done (Since Diggs), then he isnt the man to get us to a SB. 

 

McD is a defensive coach who has a bad to mediocre defense that cannot close the deal or stop teams in the playoffs. He is a terrible in game manager with the bad timeouts, challenges and strategy (in the season and playoffs). He seemingly wont allow Beane to hire outside the organization because he will lose control resulting in mediocrity in the offense, which he is definitely out of his element in managing. He also seems extremely poor in preparing his teams in some games or holding them accountable for poor performances (in game and after). I am glad he has brought a good culture here but I struggle to see what his upside is faced with all these provable negatives.  I have always said that if they win a SB while he is the coach, it will be despite him and not because of him. 

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, Mike R said:

Well said. This group does not seem to care and just doesn’t show up to play some weeks. I blame McD for putting up with this crap and no vocal leadership on the team. Josh needs to quit being a yes man and sulking in isolation on the sidelines. Somebody has to rally the troops. The effort is clearly not there on game day and it’s unacceptable.

Between Josh Allen’s strange interview with Marty Smith and Dion Dawkins insistence that it’s never Super Bowl or Bust .. the pillars of this team don’t come across as having what it takes mentally to compete with up and coming hungry teams and a maniacally obsessed MJ attitude leader in Mahomes. 
 

Love JA, and he’s the most physically

gifted QB in the league, but if he’s not going to be that obsessively driven dawg, it’s tough because there doesn’t seem to be anyone in this locker room who brings that vibe. 

[CincyBillsFan]

12 hours ago, Cash said:

The pick in the end zone was BRUTAL. I don’t care how bad the receivers were. Still brutal. 

So?  Cooks fumble was brutal to.  It happens and even the best players will make mistakes.  I think some tend to focus on the rare exceptions as being evidence of a problem while ignoring the more fundamental issues troubling the Bills.

 

 

[Fan in Chicago]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Chris Simms on the Bills offense vs Miami:

 

 

I considered making a new thread for this but it fits into this thread just fine. I recommend watching the entire 12 minute video.

 

Nothing he says here should surprise anyone. Highlights:

 

-When defenses are able to stop the run, we have no counterpunch. He points out when you face playoff defenses you will inevitably have a game where you can't get the run going, and we don't have any answers to overcome that.

 

-Way too much is on Allen in the pass game. Nothing about it is surgical, it's all on him to create big plays.

 

-He blames the personnel more than the play calling but does criticize the play calling for dipping into the same well way too many times. The same concepts are constantly showing up on film. We're attacking the same areas of the field over and over again and Miami's defense was clamping down on it.

 

-Miami was in zone most of the game, cover 3 specifically 67% of the time. He says they were easily passing off our various crossing routes and we had no way of attacking them outside to get them out of those looks. He says "Allen can throw comebacks while sitting on his ass" but we don't have those routes on the menu because of our personnel.

 

-He criticizes Coleman in particular. He says that several times Allen hits the top of his drop looking in Coleman's direction but Coleman hasn't gotten to his spot and/or is jogging, so Allen ends up having to move on in the read.

 

You can tell how flabbergasted Simms is that this is the offense we've built around Allen. An all-time physically gifted QB and we're just asking him to throw button hooks and short crossers. We spam the same boring play calls and we have no one to take advantage of Allen's arm downfield.

 

This is the best summary of the situation and nails the key issues succinctly. 

[Jrb1979]

7 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

So?  Cooks fumble was brutal to.  It happens and even the best players will make mistakes.  I think some tend to focus on the rare exceptions as being evidence of a problem while ignoring the more fundamental issues troubling the Bills.

 

 

Yes there is other issues that's troubling. One many overlook is the high number of turnovers by the defense. IMO those masked a lot of the offensive issues last season. Many of those turnovers gave the offense shorter fields. 

 

Look at this season,they have the worst starting position on average in the league. 

When your offense requires a lot of plays to move down the field, you're going to struggle multiple times a game if you have to go 80 yards or more majority of the time. 

[Royale with Cheese]

Some players just mentally can't stay focused.

 

I have seen Coleman just jogging routes, even like on 4th down.  

 

Some players as soon as adversity hits, they shut down.  They can't function at high level anymore and will literally stop trying.  The brain stops working and just give zero effort.

I see that in Coleman.  I just don't think he has the emotional maturity for the NFL to be successful.  

[Psautcsk]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

Between Josh Allen’s strange interview with Marty Smith and Dion Dawkins insistence that it’s never Super Bowl or Bust .. the pillars of this team don’t come across as having what it takes mentally to compete with up and coming hungry teams and a maniacally obsessed MJ attitude leader in Mahomes. 
 

Love JA, and he’s the most physically

gifted QB in the league, but if he’s not going to be that obsessively driven dawg, it’s tough because there doesn’t seem to be anyone in this locker room who brings that vibe. 

Hoecht did until......

[Sierra Foothills]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Chris Simms on the Bills offense vs Miami:

 

 

I considered making a new thread for this but it fits into this thread just fine. I recommend watching the entire 12 minute video.

 

Nothing he says here should surprise anyone. Highlights:

 

-When defenses are able to stop the run, we have no counterpunch. He points out when you face playoff defenses you will inevitably have a game where you can't get the run going, and we don't have any answers to overcome that.

 

-Way too much is on Allen in the pass game. Nothing about it is surgical, it's all on him to create big plays.

 

-He blames the personnel more than the play calling but does criticize the play calling for dipping into the same well way too many times. The same concepts are constantly showing up on film. We're attacking the same areas of the field over and over again and Miami's defense was clamping down on it.

 

-Miami was in zone most of the game, cover 3 specifically 67% of the time. He says they were easily passing off our various crossing routes and we had no way of attacking them outside to get them out of those looks. He says "Allen can throw comebacks while sitting on his ass" but we don't have those routes on the menu because of our personnel.

 

-He criticizes Coleman in particular. He says that several times Allen hits the top of his drop looking in Coleman's direction but Coleman hasn't gotten to his spot and/or is jogging, so Allen ends up having to move on in the read.

 

You can tell how flabbergasted Simms is that this is the offense we've built around Allen. An all-time physically gifted QB and we're just asking him to throw button hooks and short crossers. We spam the same boring play calls and we have no one to take advantage of Allen's arm downfield.

 

 

Everyone's lauding this piece and it's absolutely accurate but it's also what posters here have been saying all season long so there's nothing new here.

 

The only thing different now is that more than ever before, media and fans who were extremely reluctant to publicly criticize Josh are now a bit more emboldened to do so... that of the many problems with the offense, one is that Josh is not playing up to his own standards.

 

This will be the 3rd or 4th time I say this... Josh isn't near the top of the list of reasons why the Bills offense is playing poorly but he is on the list.

 

So to respected posters like yourself @dave mcbride and @HappyDays, are you saying that Josh is playing as he usually does? Is Josh completely blameless for the offensive problems?

 

[dpberr]

 The Bills' in-house strength and conditioning program is a clear liability. I wouldn’t be surprised if their travel logistics and approach to managing fatigue, disruption and acclimation are equally flawed.

 

When the McDermott-led Bills come out flat, it is almost always the road games.

 

An example of this occurred in 2023, when the team arrived in London just two days before their game against the Jaguars. They sleptwalk through that game and lost it.  Jet lag for a trip from the US to Europe is a couple days for most people.  

 

I don't think arriving in Miami on a Friday afternoon provides players with nearly enough time to adjust to exertion in the  humidity and heat. We also have no idea whether these players get the sleep they should, or they are up all night.  

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

So to respected posters like yourself @dave mcbride and @HappyDays, are you saying that Josh is playing as he usually does? Is Josh completely blameless for the offensive problems?

 

I think he is mostly blameless, yeah. It is true that Allen isn't playing as well as last year, independent of anything going on around him. I don't think anybody denies that. But that's normal. Even the greatest QBs ever have down seasons over the course of their career. Those down seasons often coincide with the supporting cast around them having down seasons. Look at Brady's final season in New England. His best WRs were a 33 year old Julian Edelman and a rookie Jakobi Meyers. Gronkowski had just retired. All of this resulted in Brady having his lowest YPG, passer rating, ANY/A, success rate, etc. since at least 2013. A lot of people thought his career was over... Until he went to the team with the best supporting cast in the league, which got his statistical output back to its normal heights and he immediately won another Super Bowl. Look at Mahomes the past two seasons. Plenty of analysts have said he wasn't playing at his best in those seasons but it was understandable given the mess around him. I didn't blame him for the Super Bowl loss to Philly either - he had no chance in those conditions. So for me it's not just a Josh Allen bias, I try to be consistent in evaluating QB play within the conditions that they're given.

 

The growing narrative that really irritates me is the one that tries to give equal (or greater) blame to Allen as it does to the rest of the operation. That's what bothers me about the Jim Kubiak article and a couple other analyses I've seen floating around social media. The expectations for Allen have gotten to be utterly ridiculous. Fans are saying out loud "we need Allen to play like the MVP for us to have a chance at the Super Bowl" but they're framing that as a criticism of Allen! That framing is totally backwards. And it seems to me that that mindset permeates the entire organization. No need for certain players to give it their all on every play, or for the GM to add legit talent, or for the coaches to add wrinkles and make adjustments. Eventually Superman will just put on his cape, right? Wow look at that 3rd and 16 where he ran around for 20 seconds before finding an open WR, that's the Allen we need. Ah but he threw an interception at the end of the drive. That means he's to blame for the result.

 

Long post so just so summarize - Allen isn't playing at his best but I mainly attribute that to the architecture around him being a complete mess. We're running the same concepts that we've put on film a million times going back to last year. We have the worst pass catching talent in the league especially when Palmer and Kincaid are both injured. The OL hasn't been as consistent as last year. I hate the nitpicky analysis of "well on this play if you freeze frame it right here I think Allen could have maybe hit that 2 yard short crosser." It's too narrow-focused and it doesn't properly account for how NFL QBs make their reads. The big picture conversation is what I'm interested in and that's what Chris Simms gets into in that video. Those issues, not Allen, are why we have very little chance of turning this passing offense around.

[SoonerBillsFan]

9 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Chris Simms on the Bills offense vs Miami:

 

 

I considered making a new thread for this but it fits into this thread just fine. I recommend watching the entire 12 minute video.

 

Nothing he says here should surprise anyone. Highlights:

 

-When defenses are able to stop the run, we have no counterpunch. He points out when you face playoff defenses you will inevitably have a game where you can't get the run going, and we don't have any answers to overcome that.

 

-Way too much is on Allen in the pass game. Nothing about it is surgical, it's all on him to create big plays.

 

-He blames the personnel more than the play calling but does criticize the play calling for dipping into the same well way too many times. The same concepts are constantly showing up on film. We're attacking the same areas of the field over and over again and Miami's defense was clamping down on it.

 

-Miami was in zone most of the game, cover 3 specifically 67% of the time. He says they were easily passing off our various crossing routes and we had no way of attacking them outside to get them out of those looks. He says "Allen can throw comebacks while sitting on his ass" but we don't have those routes on the menu because of our personnel.

 

-He criticizes Coleman in particular. He says that several times Allen hits the top of his drop looking in Coleman's direction but Coleman hasn't gotten to his spot and/or is jogging, so Allen ends up having to move on in the read.

 

You can tell how flabbergasted Simms is that this is the offense we've built around Allen. An all-time physically gifted QB and we're just asking him to throw button hooks and short crossers. We spam the same boring play calls and we have no one to take advantage of Allen's arm downfield.

 

"They got no one who can win on the outside."