Bills Don't have Receiver Problem, they have a perception problem-- Jim Kubiak BN

[Blank Stare]

Wasn’t it a thing where, like Greg Roman, Brady can’t really design a good pass game (i.e., simplistic routes, not a lot of creativity), or am I imagining that? I think Brady gets a lot of credit for the LSU pass game success with Burrow, Chase, and Jefferson, but, in hindsight, I think I could’ve called an offense that included the three of them. Like Dorsey before him, I find myself asking “What’s the plan here in the pass game”. The best OCs work a plan that sets up future plays. I just feel like Brady is calling plays sometimes without a real plan to set up and attack the defense. I’d bet $100 we get the WR screen somewhere on the first drive. If I know it’s coming, you best believe Spags does. 

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

Our best WR is Shakir and he is not a good 15 - 30 yard yard receiver at the boundary.  

And so what? Why do you think we need that guy when Beane and McDermott don't?

Are weeing a lot of evidence that the Bills are trying to run those kinds of plays and aren't succeeding?

[RunTheBall]

I seriously believe all we are missing is a consistent intermediate passing game in the 15-30 range. Get that, and this team has all the tools to be a top Super Bowl contender. We don’t need a bunch of deep bombs. It’s that 15-30 air yard shots that we know Josh can throw very well that need to return to the offense.

[Psautcsk]

1 minute ago, Blank Stare said:

Wasn’t it a thing where, like Greg Roman, Brady can’t really design a good pass game (i.e., simplistic routes, not a lot of creativity), or am I imagining that? I think Brady gets a lot of credit for the LSU pass game success with Burrow, Chase, and Jefferson, but, in hindsight, I think I could’ve called an offense that included the three of them. Like Dorsey before him, I find myself asking “What’s the plan here in the pass game”. The best OCs work a plan that sets up future plays. I just feel like Brady is calling plays sometimes without a real plan to set up and attack the defense. I’d bet $100 we get the WR screen somewhere on the first drive. If I know it’s coming, you best believe Spags does. 

One that causes an injury and/or turnover?

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Blank Stare said:

Wasn’t it a thing where, like Greg Roman, Brady can’t really design a good pass game (i.e., simplistic routes, not a lot of creativity), or am I imagining that? I think Brady gets a lot of credit for the LSU pass game success with Burrow, Chase, and Jefferson, but, in hindsight, I think I could’ve called an offense that included the three of them. Like Dorsey before him, I find myself asking “What’s the plan here in the pass game”. The best OCs work a plan that sets up future plays. I just feel like Brady is calling plays sometimes without a real plan to set up and attack the defense. I’d bet $100 we get the WR screen somewhere on the first drive. If I know it’s coming, you best believe Spags does. 

Greg Roman has now designed two consecutive very good pass offenses in Baltimore and LAC

[Casey D]

35 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Apples and oranges. 

 

If we are talking baseball, many guys have had long and lucrative careers hitting an occasional HR and striking out a lot. Ask Steve "Bye-Bye" Balboni. 

 

If we are talking football, the occasional missed playoffs help teams aquire higher rates players through the draft. Ask Jamar Chase. 

 

Is it better to make the playoffs  10 years in a row and get bounced or miss the playoffs 8 out of 10 years, but win a Super Bowl the two years you do go? Ask Marvin Lewis and the NY Giants.

Bengals did not win a SB in 2021.  And Bills have done more in playoffs--way more than Lewis.  Can't win SB if you can't get in the tournament. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

11 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

2 playoff appearances with 0 Super Bowl Championships= 0% 

 

7 playoff appearances with 0 Super Bowl Championships = 0%

 

Unless just getting to the Super Bowl is the goal (which it really shouldn't be for an organization). 


--------------------

Personally, I'll take the 5 straight division championships and 2 AFC championship appearances and the confidence we'll be at least this good another 5 years over what the Bengals have done and will do.

You're praising a team that very well may be firing their head coach.

And that's fair. There is a discussion to be had about what is better. Failing yearly but getting close or failing yearly and ending up with a shot at better talent in the draft to retool and be better. It comes down to personal choice.

 

I compared it earlier in the thread to the Marvin Lewis era Bengals and the Giants. The Bengals were always in the playoffs, but never achieved the ultimate goal. Was that a success? On some level, yes it was. They were consistently a good team. The Giants on the other hand were either a laughing stick or Super Bowl Champs. Was that a success? On some levels, yes. I, myself would trade any one of those "we were good but not good enough" seasons for a 6-11 season where we landed a premier player. Of course, thats hindsight being 20/20and not in the moment.

[HOUSE]

Can we sign 3 new Wrs anyway?

What can it hurt?

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, Casey D said:

Bengals did not win a SB in 2021.  And Bills have done more in playoffs--way more than Lewis.  Can't win SB if you can't get in the tournament. 

Did not say they did. 

 

And the Bills have done more in the playoffs than Lewis. True. There are the same number of Lombardi's in our case as the Bengals to show for it. Also true.

[zow2]

32 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

It's one thing to say Allen is "under performing" and another to say he's"sucked".  To say Allen has sucked this season is to admit that you don't watch any other NFL games because if you did you would have a better understanding of what "sucks" really looks like.

 

 

 

Ok. he hasn't sucked in every game this season, but in large chunks of the last three for sure.  But the issue with Allen is that he can only be compared to himself and his high level of play.  I suspect the KC game will be the game he gets back on track,,,, releasing the ball on time, accurate throws,  scrambling making plays, etc..

[GoBills808]

who has a worse pass catching group than us?

 

just the browns, right?

[The Jokeman]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

who has a worse pass catching group than us?

 

just the browns, right?

The Jets have to be the worst, especially with Wilson hurt. 

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

And so what? Why do you think we need that guy when Beane and McDermott don't?

Are weeing a lot of evidence that the Bills are trying to run those kinds of plays and aren't succeeding?

And what makes you so sure Bean & McD don't think we need guys that can make those types of catches?

 

Against Atlanta on a 3rd & 10 early in a 7 - 7 game after the D had forced a 3 & out and the Bills were on their 2nd offensive possession Allen made a great throw under pressure to Shakir along the sideline for what should have been a 15 yard gain if he keeps his feet in bounds.  Many NFL receivers would have completed that catch. Hell I just saw Luke McCaffrey do it on Monday night.  

 

My point isn't to trash Shakir it's just to point out that those types of catches are not his strong suit.  Not having WR's that can routinely make those tough, toe tap catches 10 - 30 yards along the sideline downfield is a major issue. Both Davis & Diggs could make those catches as could Cooper.

 

 

 

[GoBills808]

Just now, The Jokeman said:

The Jets have to be the worst, especially with Wilson hurt. 

assuming their guys are healthy

[CincyBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

Ok. he hasn't sucked in every game this season, but in large chunks of the last three for sure.  But the issue with Allen is that he can only be compared to himself and his high level of play.  I suspect the KC game will be the game he gets back on track,,,, releasing the ball on time, accurate throws,  scrambling making plays, etc..

Again he hasn't sucked in any games he has under performed.  There is a huge difference.  

[Comebackkid]

2 hours ago, T.E. said:

We have gotten way too fearful of turning the ball over, and that message has turned what once was a gunslinger QB into a tentative game manager. An interception here and there is not the end of the world, particularly on passes 20+ yards down the field.

 

The adage of needing to crack a few eggs to make an omlette is relative here - we do not have the horses to consistently pull off 10+ play drives all game, nor should we be limiting offensive possessions with an MVP under center. The coaching staff's gameplan and quarterback are completely mismatched.

agree...overthinking everything and when your dealing with tight windows there's no time for that.   remember the game I think brady threw 5 ints against us 

and still almost won.   didnt stop him from trying though and he made a lot of big throws throughout the game.

qbs are throwing into very tight windows all game long every week.   Josh used to do it and stil does sometimes but 

our passing game air yards is getting shorter than a james cook run. 

its no wonder the passing game sucks when run or throw you only have to defend 5 yards of field. 

[SCBills]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

who has a worse pass catching group than us?

 

just the browns, right?

Shakir - Good slot, but not elite 

 

Palmer - WR3, with potential to be a WR2

 

Keon - Maybe the worst starting WR in the NFL

 

Samuel - Can’t stay healthy, WR3/4 when healthy, expensive 

 

Moore - WR4/5 

 

Shavers - WR6

 

Kincaid - Big Slot as a TE, can’t stay healthy, OC doesn’t use him when he is

 

Knox - Good TE2, massive cap hit 

 

Hawes - Should be the TE2 on a team that doesn’t misappropriate assets 

 

Three good receiving backs - Don’t use them as such, when we do it’s the same concepts from last year that teams have film in and have shut down 

 

Did I miss anything? 

[Comebackkid]

10 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

I seriously believe all we are missing is a consistent intermediate passing game in the 15-30 range. Get that, and this team has all the tools to be a top Super Bowl contender. We don’t need a bunch of deep bombs. It’s that 15-30 air yard shots that we know Josh can throw very well that need to return to the offense.

we used to thrive in that area.   it seems like all the passing concepts that we used to thrive in are now torn from the script for what ever reason. 

[Buffalo4Life01]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Again he hasn't sucked in any games he has under performed.  There is a huge difference.  

Why are you so averse at saying Allen sucked?  Would you say he simply 'under performed' in the Texans game last year or would you agree he really, really sucked in that game?  For what it's worth, I don't think Allen has sucked for a full game this year.  But I think he certainly has sucked at times, including the great majority of the first half of the Panthers game.  Just dreadful and missing open receivers.  But as he normally tends to do, he bounced back in the 2nd half and played quite a bit better.  Hopefully he puts together two good halves of football this Sunday, something he has not done in over a month. 

[corta765]

2 hours ago, Gregg said:

Hurts has Brown and Smith

Burrow when healthy has Chase and Higgins

Dak has CEE-DEE and Pickens

Allen has what at the WR position that would be considered elite... NOTHING!!!

 

 

Josh from 2019-2023 had Diggs, Beasley, Brown, & Sanders who all were very quality to very good WRs in that time. The team has decided since then to not fully invest at WR to improve the rest of the offense and the defense to carry a larger burden (for better or worse).

 

I do not disagree that I wish wish wish they had drafted 2-3 WRs high in the 23/24 drafts (1st 2nd 3rd round!) and made a more conscious effort to address the position then just Coleman which has now caught them to an extent. KC after trading Hill didn't shy away from going after WRs in the draft and Rice looks really good and Worthy has a good roll there. But Josh has had his time with quality receivers and once you pay a QB the expectation is he raises the floor for them also.