Joe Marino's 9 point plan for improvement

[In Summary]

Fixing the Bills is three steps easier than achieving sobriety. 

[quincy]

7 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

KC started a bunch of rookies in the secondary of course 

 

Nobody is going to second guess Spags if he thinks the rookies are playable. 

 

5 hours ago, TheBrownBear said:

Agree 100%. This season is turning out to be what we thought last year was going to be - a step-back/mini-rebuild where we aren't true Super Bowl contenders.  Play Poyer alongside Bishop to hopefully impart on him how a functional safety tandem should communicate. Once healthy, play the young secondary guys as much as possible. Let them play through mistakes. 

 

On offense, even though he's been underwhelming, keep giving Keon a bunch of run to either develop him or confirm that he's not a real piece of the puzzle moving forward. I'd like to see more touches for Davis on early downs and more throws to and usage of Cook on 3rd down.  It's infuriating that we consistently remove our best playmaker on the money down.

 

I too agree, I would give the Carolina and KC games to the Poyer/Bishop combination as the starting safety duo and then evaluate, does Poyer still have gas in the tank? Did Bishop improve with Poyer? Etc - obviously Hancock is the future and Poyer was the break glass in case of emergency but here we are. 

 

Two weeks in a row their opposition's backup RB has scored with their first touch of the game. I suppose it is our D making them look better than they are. Davis comes in and stumbles forward for 2 yards ... but I am appreciative that he did catch a touchdown in the last game. 

 

Somehow Keon has got to be consistently unlocked to produce a sustained impact every game - again we are down to 4 healthy WR this week - we need him to do more than just blocking. Elevate Wilkerson? Clutching at straws in a way but surely we need 5 active on the roster especially if Kincaid is still not 100% yet.

 

  

[Boatdrinks]

2 hours ago, mjt328 said:

Joe Marino is extremely intelligent on the sport and really does his homework when it comes to watching film.  He's also got a pretty level head when it comes to overreacting to what is happening each week.

 

It's pretty disturbing after getting the full bye week to digest everything, he needed a NINE point list of areas we need to fix just to get back on track.  We aren't talking about a slight adjustment or quick fix.  We just need to completely shift our strategy on offense and defense, bench a handful of starters and make some trades.  Yikes.

 

Usually the All-22 film guys start digging in after a loss, and can find a few areas the Bills need to tweak.  I've noticed those guys are uncharacteristically down, depressed and frustrated this time around.  I think everyone is starting to realize we are screwed.

 

It seems that longtime players may have finally aged out, and several years of mediocre draft pick results are showing through. 

[gobills404]

Kincaid absolutely has to be the focal point of the passing attack from now on. He’s been one of the best pass catchers in the league this year, WR or TE, when he’s actually been on the field. Get him out there as one of Josh’s first reads on nearly every passing play. 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

3 hours ago, mjt328 said:

Usually the All-22 film guys start digging in after a loss, and can find a few areas the Bills need to tweak.  I've noticed those guys are uncharacteristically down, depressed and frustrated this time around.  I think everyone is starting to realize we are screwed

I wondered why this slump somehow felt different to me, and giving a listen to a couple of the more knowledgeable guests that Joe had on during the bye (I’m definitely not including Nate Geary 😂), I didn’t hear much in the way of unicorns and rainbows from them after breaking down the All 22.  I want to be positive, but this team just isn’t right 

[nedboy7]

I just became a Colts fan.  Problems solved!  

[Gunsgoodtime]

41 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

I just became a Colts fan.  Problems solved!  

We all might be before the season is over

[Norcalbillsfan]

On 10/21/2025 at 7:21 AM, The Firebaugh Kid said:

I have said this before and I will continue to say it. Joe is the best analyst out there and if you’re listening to anybody else you’re wasting your time. Especially Dan Mitchell, who sucks.

Its crazy how few bills analyst actually watch the all 22 and make assessments off of facts. Guys like Dan fetes will say things like groot is invisible and hasnt done anything, id take post acl von over bosa, or the salary cap isn't real go get a wr1 and still have a platform to interview guys like beane.

Edited 18 hours ago by Norcalbillsfan

[Norcalbillsfan]

11 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Rapp's regression has been the single biggest factor in the defense's struggles IMO.  He has been TERRIBLE.

I give alot of blame to beane and his roster construction over the past few years, but I'll admit its not his fault that Rapps play fell off a cliff out of no where. Its not often a gm has to pivot because your most willing tackler on your defense goes to one of the worst in the league for some unknown reason.

[BillytheKid]

3 hours ago, quincy said:

 

Nobody is going to second guess Spags if he thinks the rookies are playable. 

 

 

I too agree, I would give the Carolina and KC games to the Poyer/Bishop combination as the starting safety duo and then evaluate, does Poyer still have gas in the tank? Did Bishop improve with Poyer? Etc - obviously Hancock is the future and Poyer was the break glass in case of emergency but here we are. 

 

Two weeks in a row their opposition's backup RB has scored with their first touch of the game. I suppose it is our D making them look better than they are. Davis comes in and stumbles forward for 2 yards ... but I am appreciative that he did catch a touchdown in the last game. 

 

Somehow Keon has got to be consistently unlocked to produce a sustained impact every game - again we are down to 4 healthy WR this week - we need him to do more than just blocking. Elevate Wilkerson? Clutching at straws in a way but surely we need 5 active on the roster especially if Kincaid is still not 100% yet.

 

  

Keon needs to not see the field. He is just a waste of space at this point.

 

They need to throw to the tight ends and backs. I was listening to the PFF preview of this game on YouTube and they were saying when the Bills have their first drives of the first half and 2nd half (called them their scripted drives) They mainly throw to the tight ends and other people but not Coleman, the Bills are first in EPA in the NFL by a long shot with like a +0.488 EPA and nobody is even close to them not even the 2nd place team. 
 

They said on all of the other drives as they called them (non scripted) the Bills throw mainly to Keon Coleman and the Bills EPA drops to -0.052 a negative number and they drop down to somewhere in the 20’s ranking in the NFL.

 

Just more stats backing up what everyone is already saying about Coleman. 
 

Something to watch to see if they correct this or not. 

[ganesh]

5 hours ago, Pete said:

Thank you for a good explanation.
 

So bloggers are more researched and fact based? 😊 

 

 

Typically are...Bloggers are in front of their computer and the #1 thing that comes to you is the ability to do quick research, especially via statistics...Now ChatGPT can take it to a completely different level in that it can even give me his analysis that he desires (identify patterns etc).   Journalists are at the event and don't have time to do the research by themselves..they typically have screeners for them that may feed them a few key things here and there...But their focus typlically is on the event.

 

I am not sure if they are fact based....as one has to first trust their sources....I think it is more based on statistics and this is in evidence in Marino's podcast...he simply reels of numbers in every podcast....he is very good at consuming the numbers and forming his opinions and convincing his audience that it is correct.

3 hours ago, gobills404 said:

Kincaid absolutely has to be the focal point of the passing attack from now on. He’s been one of the best pass catchers in the league this year, WR or TE, when he’s actually been on the field. Get him out there as one of Josh’s first reads on nearly every passing play. 

We really missed him in the Atlanta game..Not sure if he will be playing this Sunday.

[finn]

On 10/21/2025 at 9:53 AM, Gigs said:

Thats a 9 point plan for a team that is fighting just to stay alive for the playoffs, not a heavily-favortied SB contender. 

 

Why do we put up with this?

We Bills fans might need an intervention, as in "Repeat after me: This is not a SB contender, nor even a playoff team. This is a injury-plagued, poorly coached, profoundly mediocre team with a super-nova at quarterback." I would still resist saying it, but my resistance is starting to weaken. 

[quincy]

10 hours ago, BillytheKid said:

Keon needs to not see the field. He is just a waste of space at this point.

 

They need to throw to the tight ends and backs. I was listening to the PFF preview of this game on YouTube and they were saying when the Bills have their first drives of the first half and 2nd half (called them their scripted drives) They mainly throw to the tight ends and other people but not Coleman, the Bills are first in EPA in the NFL by a long shot with like a +0.488 EPA and nobody is even close to them not even the 2nd place team. 
 

They said on all of the other drives as they called them (non scripted) the Bills throw mainly to Keon Coleman and the Bills EPA drops to -0.052 a negative number and they drop down to somewhere in the 20’s ranking in the NFL.

 

Just more stats backing up what everyone is already saying about Coleman. 
 

Something to watch to see if they correct this or not. 

 

In terms of WR, we have one proven player in Shakir who is slot only. We have Coleman who is having his struggles this year.

 

Behind those two, the only players that are healthy are Elijah Moore with no catches in the last two games and Shavers who has 51 receiving yards this season.

 

Samuel is always never at full health as a Buffalo Bill and Palmer who unfortunately has a genuine injury. 

 

Kincaid is still dealing with an oblique, we are unsure whether he will be active and even if he is I am sure the injury he has will limit his play in some capacity. 

 

If the desire to limit Coleman is in place then our fully healthy skill position players against Carolina would align something like Shavers-Knox-Shakir-Moore-Cook with Hawes and Ray Davis being the primary backups. 

 

We are already short handed, I just can't see that Coleman being active yet sort of benched as being helpful, the next man seemingly never steps up. 

 

  

 

 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

On 10/21/2025 at 10:33 AM, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

In fairness to Dan Mitchell, he's D tier social media personality, not a reporter or analyst.

Agreed. Apples and oranges. He's an "influencer type". 

[RichRiderBills]

On 10/21/2025 at 9:50 AM, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

You should checkout Joes' podcast it always a great listen and very informative.

 

9 points in concise fashion

1. Get back to mismatches as our big people are our strength on offense. 11-12-22 formations etc. and throw from it more as well.

2. Use Keon Coleman less, he has the most snaps and targets of any receiver.

3. Use Kincaid and Palmer more.

4. Use the Backs more in the pass game (doesn't understand where this went to).

5. Get Larry O and Hoecht up to speed and reduce the DL snaps by rookies and practice squad guys. Easy one.

6. Shaq Thompson is our best LB and needs to be treated as such. Try Bernard some at WLB.

7. Get Hairston going soon. Mentions ramping up and platooning and having ready by late season and playoffs.

8. Replace Taylor Rapp with Poyer. Not optimal, but addition by subtraction. 

9. Workout a trade for WR who can stretch and cause some fear, mentions Olave and Shaheed (PR too).

 

Many of us have mentioned some of these. The Coleman thing and being treated as if the #1 is shocking to me. We have stopped using the backs receiving as much as last year and its inexplicable. The reinforcements are self explanatory, but the safety question is bleak. All in all, there is hope, if they make some of the correct moves and don't be stubborn.

 

 

 

I can't argue with Joe, he's really spot on with all his analysis week after week.  

 

IMO

 

- get healthy and get players on the field. Really assess positional performance and swallow some ground truth. As such i love # 6. 

- Love # 4 . Schopp and Bulldog poo poo this, but go watch the old K gun. We ran screens all the time. We need the short passing game back and YAC back. Shakir needs to be running the Beasley type routes more often, especially when pressure / blitz is heavy. Use run action when the run isn't cooking....not always so much high risk deep shots. 

 

"Workout trade idea" idea

 

- i like it, but I'm looking for a safety too. Now i know we cant afford A list talent here, but maybe between both we can get something done. Shaheed doesnt break the bank and has tons of upside. 

 

 

 

[DCOrange]

5 hours ago, quincy said:

 

In terms of WR, we have one proven player in Shakir who is slot only. We have Coleman who is having his struggles this year.

 

Behind those two, the only players that are healthy are Elijah Moore with no catches in the last two games and Shavers who has 51 receiving yards this season.

 

Samuel is always never at full health as a Buffalo Bill and Palmer who unfortunately has a genuine injury. 

 

Kincaid is still dealing with an oblique, we are unsure whether he will be active and even if he is I am sure the injury he has will limit his play in some capacity. 

 

If the desire to limit Coleman is in place then our fully healthy skill position players against Carolina would align something like Shavers-Knox-Shakir-Moore-Cook with Hawes and Ray Davis being the primary backups. 

 

We are already short handed, I just can't see that Coleman being active yet sort of benched as being helpful, the next man seemingly never steps up. 

 

  

 

 

Yep, unfortunately without bringing in new talent, Coleman has to be on the field a lot by default. That doesn't mean he has to be our primary target though. Granted his first read target share isn't high relative to most teams' leaders out there, but almost 28% of his targets come as the first read on a given play (23rd in the league). Shakir is #2 on the team at ~20% and then Palmer/Kincaid are both ~15%. That can, and should, be changed IMO.