A Few Thoughts about the Pats Game - Post yours as well

[muppy]

today I feel as I did yesterday Frustrated that at this juncture of the season a team can roll out such a sloppy performance.

 

I don't give a dang about what color uniforms they wore

 

 

Isn't every game in the NFL schedule conceivably a "must win" They ALL Are

 

one loss and now every game is do or die  . do Ir DIE @-@ yeah that term makes me salty

 

a la ******

 

the Bills need control what they can control. What other teams do or don't do to affect us in rankings etc Out of our control

 

McDermotts'  responsibility is highly questioned this morning.  I wonder what Terry Pegula thinks

 

*sigh* no teams left undefeated in the NFL

Edited 1 hour ago by muppy

[BillsVet]

Buffalo had 8 turnovers last year out of 1,300 combined offensive regular and post-season snaps and somehow people expected that to continue?  And now it's an issue?  No, it was a statistical anomaly that a team could pull that off.   

 

Low risk, low-reward offenses are good...until they're not.  Then you need a player who'll demand a defense's attention and perhaps Kincaid elevates his game and becomes that.  What is evident is that their hodgepodge of receivers aren't much of an improvement off the 2024 early-season group. 

 

[LabattBlue]

Doesn’t happen very often, but I agree with the hosts on WGR this morning.  Kincaid was unstoppable yesterday, but only had 6 targets.  There may be times when “everybody eats” is not a good idea, and instead get the ball to the hot hand… i.e.  Maye & Diggs last night.  

[Bruffalo]

The penalties killing any and all offensive rhythm over and over again I think are the main reason why the Bills floundered in the first half.

 

This isn't a popular opinion here, but the offense is mostly fine, and they're punching above their weight considering the investment. Joe Brady is going to end up a head coach in the next two years, I'd put money on it. People are complaining about the offense because they subconsciously know the defense isn't going to stop anything unless there's an incredible individual effort.

 

Making the offense need to be perfect isn't sustainable.

 

The defense is the problem and so much of it has to be with scheme. The secondary is never close to anyone. They can't play out of structure at all. If we don't get pressure with the front 4, it's always a completion because we never actually cover anyone, just sections of zone that we're obviously too slow or can't process quick enough to attack the ball. I refuse to believe that all of the corners we have are just not athletic enough to actually cover WRs. 

 

[Don Otreply]

Our Defense is and always has been the root problem with this team, and the FO hasn’t got the maturity to call it out and move on from a scheme that fails annually, we all see it, even my wife says it, lol, it’s not good enough that the buck stop on a certain desks if the guys behind those desks keep using the same failed approach every year, oh well, always hoping for the best, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Livinginthepast]

8 hours ago, Cray51 said:

I’m confused with all of the defense was bad posts.

 

bills offense gave the patriots the ball inside of our 15, D holds them to a FG

 

Allen has a chance to tie the game at 13, throws a bad pic and now we are on the backfoot

 

defense holds NE to 3 points before the half with some tight coverage (whites PI was a bad play from him, but Milano then does well to force Henry off his line

 

Diggs played well, but the defense shut down every other dimension of the Patriots.

 

The loss is on the offense.  Turning the ball over, bad penalties, and lack of run game hurt them

While the D was somewhat better, they were also just as bad or worse in these areas:

1. Holding Maye in the pocket or sacking him when they had the chance. Maye slipped out of heavy pressure at least 7 or 8 times. 2 of these times it looked like intentional grounding but the other few it was either a decent run or a miracle completion.

2. Coverage on the Pats recievers (esp Diggs DUH).  Diggs was open over and over again and when the Bills dbs did arrive they didnt separate him from the ball.

3. The last drive was horrendous. Diggs play was a fluke but his YAC was significant and then they gave up that huge pass play down the sideline to get them into FG range.

 

Just not good enough, even with the backups playing for the injured. 

[nedboy7]

Some takes that won’t be popular.  
 

Maye outplayed Josh.   The reason we don’t have Diggs is Josh.  The reason we have Koen is Josh. This is the type of offense Josh wants to play. 
 

Penalties are on the players.  Not the coach.  These guys are not toddlers.  
 

those uniforms were so bad I can see how they affected the teams visual cortex which demanded more energy from the frontal cortex which resulted it looking like morons.  
 

This defense is not above average.  Which is a huge concern.  
 

Offensive play calling needs to improve to make this group of WR work. 
 

I think they got full of themselves.  So enjoy your loss.  
 

 

[mbowman14]

Last night was the perfect game for a script similar to the Seattle plan last season.  Play in reverse by setting up the run with play-action passes to the TEs/Shakir over the middle.  NE has a good run defense, and you know Vrabel is preaching physicality out of the gate.  Use that and their poor coverage LBs and S against them.  Instead, the offense pissed away a good 1st half by the defense running jet sweeps to Knox, flea-flickers, and Palmer being unable to recognize he needed to be on the LOS.  Really poor plan and execution that entire 1st half is what doomed the Bills.  Again, game-script matters and the only time NE felt a little heat was after the 1st drive on the 2nd half when the D got super soft and let NE get the ball across mid-field before the KO team was seemingly off the field.  Need to be better and more aggressive early to control the game-script.

Edited 1 hour ago by mbowman14

[JerseyBills]

Our DL played very well imo

Multiple sacks and pressures,  shut the run down , Tre White was abysmal,  uncharacteristic turnovers and that pos Hochuli killing us with bs penalties killed us 

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, Cray51 said:

the defense did not lose us this game.  The offense was the issue

 

I don't necessarily disagree but this shows you how low the expectations have gotten for our head coach's side of the ball. The Raiders and Steelers held the Pats to 13 and 14 respectively, and those are not exactly powerhouse defenses. We hold them to "just" 20 (I'll excuse them 3 points that came off Coleman's fumble) and that feels like such a herculean effort for this defense that it seems like a good performance. It really wasn't though. It was an okay performance. You're allowed to win games where your offense only puts up 20 especially when facing an opponent whose roster talent is pretty lopsided towards their defense. The Pats offensive talent is average at best. But we let the only legit WR they have do whatever he wanted and we only made one stop in the 2nd half. We let them drive for a game winning FG. So I'm not letting the defense off the hook.

 

Also if we're accepting that we're going to spot any competent opponent 20 points no matter what investments we've made on defense, then why did we just spend two offseasons giving most of our resources to that side of the ball?

[HamptonBillsfan]

Here’s a few thoughts about the Bills. If anyone thinks our secondary won’t be targeted and victimized by any quality passing attack they’re kidding themselves. Tre White is marginal depth at this point in his career. With Strong on IR, who is our other corner, with Benford, who is not playing great man coverage himself... Our safeties are mostly, chasing plays 20 yards down the field, out of position. Why did Diggs get so much YAC last night? The safeties missed tackles and got out of position. The defensive gurus running our defense allowed Diggs, to look like Jerry Rice. If he was the sole target anytime Maye got flushed, why didn’t Sean and Babich take him away before he shredded our coverage. I liked the increased number of blitz packages but can anyone put the QB on the ground?  We played the run better last night but with Milano questionable going forward and Williams on IR, Shaq better have a lot left, especially with Atlanta’s running attack. Now on offense, if our passing approach is going to be a combination of underneath check downs and slip screens, these O-lineman and receivers better make blocks without penalties. Bottom line, offensive line coaching and Brady stunk last night. Ultimately, Josh is leaving the pocket too early because our receivers aren’t separating as he goes through his progressions. He won’t survive all the hits he took last night if it’s a regular thing. It’s obvious that our offense is centered around Cook gashing defenses creating opportunities on 3rd and short. If Cook is shut down, we’ll have games like last night.

[mbowman14]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't necessarily disagree but this shows you how low the expectations have gotten for our head coach's side of the ball. The Raiders and Steelers held the Pats to 13 and 14 respectively, and those are not exactly powerhouse defenses. We hold them to "just" 20 (I'll excuse them 3 points that came off Coleman's fumble) and that feels like such a herculean effort for this defense that it seems like a good performance. It really wasn't though. It was an okay performance. You're allowed to win games where your offense only puts up 20 especially when facing an opponent whose roster talent is pretty lopsided towards their defense. The Pats offensive talent is average at best. But we let the only legit WR they have do whatever he wanted and we only made one stop in the 2nd half. We let them drive for a game winning FG. So I'm not letting the defense off the hook.

 

Also if we're accepting that we're going to spot any competent opponent 20 points no matter what investments we've made on defense, then why did we just spend two offseasons giving most of our resources to that side of the ball?

True and the one stop in the 2nd half was a gift on 3rd and a foot with the false start.

[MikePJ76]

my thought is people do not react all that well to a loss.

 

People need to get a grip.  You would think they just clinched their 20th losing season or something after a single loss in october.

 

Its hard to understand the rationale for the people freaking out calling for firings, trades, demotions etc. this morning.  

They lost a game.  Nobody goes undefeated.

[Cray51]

16 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

While the D was somewhat better, they were also just as bad or worse in these areas:

1. Holding Maye in the pocket or sacking him when they had the chance. Maye slipped out of heavy pressure at least 7 or 8 times. 2 of these times it looked like intentional grounding but the other few it was either a decent run or a miracle completion.

2. Coverage on the Pats recievers (esp Diggs DUH).  Diggs was open over and over again and when the Bills dbs did arrive they didnt separate him from the ball.

3. The last drive was horrendous. Diggs play was a fluke but his YAC was significant and then they gave up that huge pass play down the sideline to get them into FG range.

 

Just not good enough, even with the backups playing for the injured. 

1) Maye is a good QB, good QBs make plays.  We saw Rattler do the same thing.  The defense is trying to rush 4, and their contain wasn't good enough.  With that said, Diggs bailed Maye out COUNTLESS time, which leads me to point 2

2) Coverage on every player but Diggs was really good last night.  Really good.  Diggs just simply played the game of the season, extending plays and using those short dig routes to get the ball and then turn upfield.  He came prepared.  Diggs is a good player, and a motivated good player can be a problem.  Every single other player for New England other than Diggs was held under 50 yards rushing or receiving.  This game was Diggs willing that offense via YAC and 3rd down grabs to 23 points.

 

Again, everyone is piling on the defense for holding the Patriots to 23 points.  With 3 turnovers that the defense had to try to bail the offense out on.  Look at the offensive drives in the first half:

 

Drive 1 - 33 yards, Fumble

Drive 2 - 20 yards, Punt

Drive 3 - -5 yards, Fumble

Drive 4 - 54 yards, Field Goal

Drive 5 - 17 yards, Punt

 

That's unacceptable.  That's not the defense.  That's the offense committing errors and putting their defense on short fields and tiring them out.  The defense played their ass off to keep the score 6-3 going into halftime.

 

Bill's offense came out in the second half and played much better, but yet again turned the ball over - in the redzone - which was a killer.  If they simply kick a field goal, that game is 23-20 with the Patriots needing to march down to tie with 2 minutes left.

 

Offense blew the game last night.  The defense wasn't perfect, but I dont want to hear that the defense was the problem when they had 4 sacks and held New England to under 80 yards on the ground.

[HappyDays]

14 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

They lost a game.  Nobody goes undefeated.

 

Yeah but the goal isn't to go 13-4, the goal is to win a championship. Some of the issues that lost us this game have been issues all year long including in the AFCCG loss to KC. So no I'm not going to just chalk it up as a bad loss. If anything we've been using the wins as a cover to ignore the fundamental problems with this team, and those fundamental problems are real obstacles that stand in the way of us reaching the ultimate goal.

 

The Ravens game is a great example. For 55 minutes we couldn't even slow them down and we couldn't pass the ball downfield. Then several miracle plays in a row all went our way and it's like the first 55 minutes never happened. Pulling a bunch of close games out right at the end all the way to a Super Bowl is a nice idea, but the Chiefs are the only team of this generation that has made that a sustainable winning formula. The rest of us have to win games the old fashioned way of out playing the opponent from start to finish, and there's been too many long stretches of games this year where that just hasn't been the case.

[Cray51]

19 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't necessarily disagree but this shows you how low the expectations have gotten for our head coach's side of the ball. The Raiders and Steelers held the Pats to 13 and 14 respectively, and those are not exactly powerhouse defenses. We hold them to "just" 20 (I'll excuse them 3 points that came off Coleman's fumble) and that feels like such a herculean effort for this defense that it seems like a good performance. It really wasn't though. It was an okay performance. You're allowed to win games where your offense only puts up 20 especially when facing an opponent whose roster talent is pretty lopsided towards their defense. The Pats offensive talent is average at best. But we let the only legit WR they have do whatever he wanted and we only made one stop in the 2nd half. We let them drive for a game winning FG. So I'm not letting the defense off the hook.

 

Also if we're accepting that we're going to spot any competent opponent 20 points no matter what investments we've made on defense, then why did we just spend two offseasons giving most of our resources to that side of the ball?

Raiders threw 1 pic to Buffalo's 3 turnovers and the Patriots missed a 40 yard field goal.  Patriots average starting position on offense? NE 27.  Against us?  NE 34.  2 Drives started in Buffalo territory due to turnovers.  New England actually had a very similar output yards wise in both games, the difference was the Bill's offense not protecting the ball

 

 

Pittsburgh game, New England had 5 turnovers.  Maye fumbled multiple times, so did their backs.  Turnovers are very fluky, as we saw last night.  Pitt defense played well that game, but Diggs wasn't Diggs and Maye didnt get 3-4 throws off that were drive extenders like last night.

 

I'm not saying the defense was the 85 Bears last night.  They were good, not great.  However, the offense was putrid, and I find it funny when I come in and see post after post about the defense blowing it yesterday.  That's crazy talk.  If the offense plays an average game, we win 27-14 and all of this is moot.  Offense let the team down

[zow2]

This team as of today is not as good as the 2023 & 2024 Bills clubs.  Maybe they get better and play their best football later in the season?  We shall see, but they are not as good as of today.  The 4-1 record is solid for what they are right now.

[MikePJ76]

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah but the goal isn't to go 13-4, the goal is to win a championship. Some of the issues that lost us this game have been issues all year long including in the AFCCG loss to KC. So no I'm not going to just chalk it up as a bad loss. If anything we've been using the wins as a cover to ignore the fundamental problems with this team, and those fundamental problems are real obstacles that stand in the way of us reaching the ultimate goal.

 

The Ravens game is a great example. For 55 minutes we couldn't even slow them down and we couldn't pass the ball downfield. Then several miracle plays in a row all went our way and it's like the first 55 minutes never happened. Pulling a bunch of close games out right at the end all the way to a Super Bowl is a nice idea, but the Chiefs are the only team of this generation that has made that a sustainable winning formula. The rest of us have to win games the old fashioned way of out playing the opponent from start to finish, and there's been too many long stretches of games this year where that just hasn't been the case.

If allen simply stands in the pocket and throws the corner route to Curtis Samuel its 24-20 Bills and The pats have to go the distance and score a td to win.

 

It happens.  Even the best players make mistakes.

[Cray51]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah but the goal isn't to go 13-4, the goal is to win a championship

This is where I'm confused.

 

The Bills are playing young guys early in the year to get them up to championship winning caliber.  They are taking lumps defensively to get guys like Walker/Sanders/Bishop reps as NFL starters.  They are out Hairston, so White has to come in, and he isn't playing well.  They signed Hoecht knowing of his suspension, but planning their team to win a championship by having him on the field.

 

So when people talk about the defensive investment this year... you are seeing it.  It's young guys getting lots of time, it's Hoecht and Ogunjobi being suspended right now, and it's Hairston hurt.  It's not pretty, but the NFL has come around on the Bill's way of defense from 2017-2023.  Teams know how to matchup against it now.  The style of this defense is in another transition to try to gear up for the playoffs.

 

So do you want development towards the playoffs to win a championship?  Or do you want Hamlin and Zion Logue playing over Bishop and Sanders because the defense was better two years ago?

[Fleezoid]

Put Milano on IR for the rest of the season. Then release or deal him. I'm done. Stop the rollercoaster because this is just ridiculous.