A note on the base nickel vs the 4/3

[Simon]

 

The Bills have spent about a third of every game so far running in a 4/3 with Williams or Shaq Thompson as the other 'backer.

That is a significant increase in how much they've used 3 LBs in the past.

I know that this has been partly a result of matchups and injuries (Taron), but I'm not sure that's the entire reason.

Is this trend going to continue going forward? And if so, why?

[WotAGuy]

When the d-line isn’t doing the job, beef up the backer line. Run game is making a resurgence in the league. I’m just spitballing here. 

[Sojourner]

Just now, WotAGuy said:

When the d-line isn’t doing the job, beef up the backer line. Run game is making a resurgence in the league. I’m just spitballing here. 

Agree. Think it’s a commitment to stopping the run first and foremost.

Now with Milano out, got to cover that with more players. 

[GunnerBill]

Don't know why. Babich is dumb?

[Big Turk]

9 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

The Bills have spent about a third of every game so far running in a 4/3 with Williams or Shaq Thompson as the other 'backer.

That is a significant increase in how much they've used 3 LBs in the past.

I know that this has been partly a result of matchups and injuries (Taron), but I'm not sure that's the entire reason.

Is this trend going to continue going forward? And if so, why?

 

One of the players was talking about it (I think maybe Bernard?) and he said they have been running more of it and giving teams some different looks when they are going to heavier formations rather than staying in base nickel and it's been helping against the run.  Said Taron is a semi-LB with the way he plays but said it's nice for him to get a break from having to put that type of wear and tear on his body and gives them some different opportunities on D.

[DrMaxPower]

Beyond the matchup/injury stuff, I think it's mostly the cyclical nature of the game and trying to be ahead of the curve.

 

We were at the forefront of the base nickle as teams started throwing the ball all over the place. Now, offenses are reacting by going bigger and running more. Lots of teams running 2 TE with regularity and putting more focus on the ground. This is the counter.

[BuffaloBillyG]

10 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

The Bills have spent about a third of every game so far running in a 4/3 with Williams or Shaq Thompson as the other 'backer.

That is a significant increase in how much they've used 3 LBs in the past.

I know that this has been partly a result of matchups and injuries (Taron), but I'm not sure that's the entire reason.

Is this trend going to continue going forward? And if so, why?

I think it's a two fold reason. 

 

1. Ravens. Jets. And contrary to belief...YES the Dolphins are all teams with running games that can be anywhere from very good to spectacular in a given game. Now next game against the Saints...I see less 4-3.

 

2. Health of Taron Johnson. He's been somewhat banged up the last few weeks. And while he's traditionally a solid run defender, using more 4-3 looks gives him less ear and tear. If he needs a break the Bills are basically saying "we like Williams/Thompson more than Ingram/Lewis"

[Simon]

10 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Get a 3rd LB on the field. The guys we have can run and cover.... We do not need to constantly have Tarron Johnson on the field. The coaching staff is obsessed with him. He’s just not that good. 

 

Shaq Thompson is a 32yr old injured 230lber, Dorian Williams couldn't cover a three-legged elephant with a circus tent and Taron Johnson has been one of the very best nickel backs on the planet for the last 5+ years.

Take your nonsensical rants to another thread; they have no place here.

[hondo in seattle]

25 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

The Bills have spent about a third of every game so far running in a 4/3 with Williams or Shaq Thompson as the other 'backer.

That is a significant increase in how much they've used 3 LBs in the past.

I know that this has been partly a result of matchups and injuries (Taron), but I'm not sure that's the entire reason.

Is this trend going to continue going forward? And if so, why?

 

Good observation.  I'd been wondering about that.  

 

We have played teams with talented backs who have given us trouble in the past, so I've wondered if that was the reason - though there are other possible explanations. It's something to watch. 

 

[3rdand12]

35 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

The Bills have spent about a third of every game so far running in a 4/3 with Williams or Shaq Thompson as the other 'backer.

That is a significant increase in how much they've used 3 LBs in the past.

I know that this has been partly a result of matchups and injuries (Taron), but I'm not sure that's the entire reason.

Is this trend going to continue going forward? And if so, why?

 just want it noted here

 I suggested Bills needed some scheme tweaks on Def this season. Playing more 4-3 ish should be one of them.

If LBs can read and run , rush inside outside and cover. Why wouldn't ya.

Love Taron but he has taken a beating last few years.

Simon , I think they now have the personnel to flex from week to week and half to half etc etc to play either.

 BTW I approve of this shift 😇

 

added ;

After reading above i am pleased to see most of you agree with me  lol

Edited 1 hour ago by 3rdand12

[Simon]

19 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I think it's a two fold reason. 

 

1. Ravens. Jets. And contrary to belief...YES the Dolphins are all teams with running games that can be anywhere from very good to spectacular in a given game. Now next game against the Saints...I see less 4-3.

 

2. Health of Taron Johnson. He's been somewhat banged up the last few weeks. And while he's traditionally a solid run defender, using more 4-3 looks gives him less ear and tear. If he needs a break the Bills are basically saying "we like Williams/Thompson more than Ingram/Lewis"

 

Agreed in regards to protecting Taron, since he won't protect himself (did you see him trying to pick up another concussion last night with about 10 seconds left in a two score game) and agreed about the Ravens and Jets. But I do not agree at all about the Dolphins.

That is one of the fastest offenses in the league and over the last two years the Bills have played virtually zero 4-3 against them; they've run a base nickel (or a dime) against them at a rate of nearly 100% of their defensive snaps.

Now, even with a healthy Taron Johnson and an injured Milano, they're suddenly playing a full third of a game in a 4-3 they haven't shown them at all?

Something different is going on here and I'm curious what it is.

[Big Turk]

34 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Get a 3rd LB on the field. The guys we have can run and cover. We do not need to constantly have Tarron Johnson on the field. The coaching staff is obsessed with him. He’s just not that good. Dudes streaking wide open across the middle and teams convert 3rd down like it’s nothing. Move him to the boundary or move him to safety. Please play more base defense. Stop getting out of the 4-3. That’s why we get absolutely run over. If we were great against the pass, fine. Id live with it. We can’t stop the pass either. Stop doing it 

Shaq Thompson absolutely obliterated Achane on that one pass play where he ran right past Ingold trying to block him and hit him right as he caught the ball behind the LOS...no idea how he held onto the ball.

[Mike in Horseheads]

I thought they used the Buffalo nickel 😁

[Simon]

5 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Shaq Thompson absolutely obliterated Achane on that one pass play where he ran right past Ingold trying to block him and hit him right as he caught the ball behind the LOS...no idea how he held onto the ball.

 

That was a great example of how to fool a blocker with your eyes. It's a really hard concept to explain in text, but he basically made Ingold think that Archane was several feet from where he actually was so that he was out of blocking alignment and Thompson had a path to get to the spot he wanted to be at without interference. That's good, smart veteran stuff right there.

[BlueRed]

When Hoecht returns I think it be fun to see the bills try a front where all the lineman (DE’s probably) and LB are standing at the line of scrimmage and then they surprise who is rushing and who is dropping. 
 

I feel like I remember the Patriots doing that back in the day and always thought that would be an effective thing to sprinkle in for 3rd downs. 

[billsfan89]

Teams are trying to run the ball more to break the soft 2 zones. There's a big increase in teams running 2 tight ends this year. So it makes sense teams are running more 4-3

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

53 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Get a 3rd LB on the field. The guys we have can run and cover. We do not need to constantly have Tarron Johnson on the field. The coaching staff is obsessed with him. He’s just not that good. Dudes streaking wide open across the middle and teams convert 3rd down like it’s nothing. Move him to the boundary or move him to safety. Please play more base defense. Stop getting out of the 4-3. That’s why we get absolutely run over. If we were great against the pass, fine. Id live with it. We can’t stop the pass either. Stop doing it 

That is a WILD statement. Taron Johnson is only one year removed from being a 2nd team All Pro. If you want to get on him about his recent injuries then fine I get that, but when healthy he is as good as any Nickel in the game.