Do The Bills Have A Passing Game Problem?

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, Thrivefourfive said:

Let’s be honest, our biggest play downfield is defensive pass inference. That all we have. But nothing to see here. Brady is god. 

Guess you didn’t watch the Ravens game.  But continue with your dissonance

[Cray51]

7 hours ago, NoSaint said:

I think many of us think Miami is a very bad team though. Not the playoff fins we have at times battled but a true talent lacking squad that has active internal conflict on top of it. 
 

in a special season there will be a few of those that aren’t pretty but you take the win….  But that the gap on the field matched the forecasted gap on paper is what stands out. 
 

josh airmails a couple passes and nobody blinks about the long term because sometimes you just don’t hit everything. Josh stands patting the ball because he can’t find anyone open and that gives pause about the bigger story.

Miami ALWAYS plays Buffalo hard as long as Tua stays healthy throughout.  Bills winning margin where Tua plays the entire game:

10 - last night

3 - Bass FG last year

7 - Week 18 game

28 - Diggs 3 TD game

3 - Bills snow game

2 - Miami win

 

Outside of the one blowout 2 years ago, Miami has ALWAYS been a tough opponent.  There are no bad teams in your division, they are always the toughest matchups.  I dont think you are giving enough credit to Miami as an NFL team, not every game is going to be a 4 possession victory.

 

Regarding your statements that Josh is holding the ball more, or that the offense is sputtering, or that we should have both a short passing game that is effective and impactful, as well as a downfield passing game, I think there is an understanding of defenses now that needs to be acknowledged.  Teams you play against gameplan against you.  In 2020/2021 when Allen was at his offensive production peak as a downfield passer, teams weren't defending with a soft zone two high safety look.  One on one matchups were more common, and single safety looks let Allen push the ball downfield more frequently.  Unfortunately, teams have smartened up and adjusted to QBs who can extend plays and now sit in zones taking away the top of the field, forcing QBs to take rhythm throws, dump offs, or QB scrambles.

 

With that last sentence, I think we see why yesterday looked or appeared sloppy.  It's obvious that Allen is not trying to run as much as he used to.  It's early in the season, he dealt with a hand injury all of last year due to his superman cape in week 1, and most likely doesn't want to face that again.  When he scrambles right, he isn't running as frequently, he is looking to pass, and throwing into tight windows as opposed to picking up 4-7 yards and taking a hit.

 

As the season moves along, and as we get into games that are really important (down late, end of season, playoffs), I have no doubt you will see Allen carry the offense more, as he has done in previous years, and as he will continue to do.

 

Brady is trying to insulate Allen by creating an offense that let's Allen sit in a safe pocket and hit timing throws.  It's worked through three weeks to the tune of 34PPG which leads the NFL.  It's not as explosive, but it's still effective.  I think a lot of fans need to realize that a non-explosive offense that still puts up points is OK

[NoSaint]

15 minutes ago, MJS said:

Miami has plenty of talent. Their defensive line is really good. They have explosive stars on offense. Their issues are not talent issues. They lack leadership and toughness. And their secondary is not great.

Counter: sure they are an nfl roster in the era of the salary floor. They have nfl players scattered around the roster and even some good units. 
 

they have a bottom 5-10 secondary and a bad offensive line. They also have a guy who’s kind of average at qb. 
 

so lacking talent and no talent multiplier at the most important position. They  are the drought era bills with a little bit more at qb and not the high water mark of the other 52? Plus more dysfunction? 
 

it’s a below average team that has dysfunction on top (bills, chargers, KC, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Denver, Houston bring you to the argument for 8 in the afc)

[Wayne Cubed]

I think the Bills could have a vertical passing attack problem. Thursday games, short week, I always feel like are sloppy and hard to determine much from. Saying that, the couple of times the Bills wanted to look deep, or even intermidiate, it's not been there. This could cause problems in the running game later on and requires a level of perfection from the offense that is hard to sustain.

[MikePJ76]

1 minute ago, Magox said:

Over the years I have learned to not get as frustrated about fans behaviors, typically they are very emotional and irrational, but to criticize the #1 offense in the league in many metrics, a team that wins, a team that is balanced, a team that doesn't turn it over, a team that scores a lot, a team who is consistent whether its in the regular season or playoffs is just beyond stupid.

a guy just called wgr and said how do we get rid of joe brady or get him out of the way and just let allen run the offense and stop running the ball.

 

A. this is my notice to turn this off and get to work and

 

B. The ignorance or dissonance I guess to which fans watch the team they root for is mind boggling to me.

 

The Bills are so good currently that fans have completely lost the plot, Winning.  This is all about winning.  Not Putting up stats.  The nit picking and misunderstanding what the team is doing and why is beyond frustrating.

 

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They played a fair amount of cover 2, but I didn't chart it play by play or anything.

Way to let us down.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

12 minutes ago, MJS said:

What?

Sarcasm because this thread is the most “The Bills didn’t win they way I wanted them to win” vibe in recent memory. The game plan called for short, quick passes to backs and TEs but no deep balls so people aren’t happy and we have terrible pass catchers. So dumb.

[MJS]

1 minute ago, The Cincinnati Kid said:

Sarcasm because this thread is the most “The Bills didn’t win they way I wanted them to win” vibe in recent memory. The game plan called for short, quick passes to backs and TEs but no deep balls so people aren’t happy and we have terrible pass catchers. So dumb.

Ok, good, haha. With all the whining going on after the Bills going 3-0 and beating the last two teams by multiple scores, it's tough to tell who is serious and who is just idiotic.

[nedboy7]

If the Bills have no deep threat why did the Fins play deep zone shell for most of the game and force them into playing underneath which seems to be the Bills strength?   Isn't that odd?  

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, The Cincinnati Kid said:

Sarcasm because this thread is the most “The Bills didn’t win they way I wanted them to win” vibe in recent memory. The game plan called for short, quick passes to backs and TEs but no deep balls so people aren’t happy and we have terrible pass catchers. So dumb.

That’s not completely accurate. The Bills game plan ABSOLUTELY did not call for ONLY 1 throw of 10+ air yards. I promise that wasn’t the goal. Guys were blanketed all over the field. The video review is going to be brutal for the WRs. The Bills WRs are among the worst in the NFL. The Bills have scored a lot of points. Both of those are true. 
 

We have reached a point in this era, where beating a bad team at home by 10 is the expectation. We should all be happy with that today. At the same time, there are concerns that if you are playing KC in January, and guys can’t get open, and you lose (again), it’s a disaster. Josh Allen is halfway through his career and they haven’t played for a Super Bowl yet. When you see a problem, that’s VERY evident, there’s reason for concern even if it hasn’t cost them a game yet. 

2 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

If the Bills have no deep threat why did the Fins play deep zone shell for most of the game and force them into playing underneath which seems to be the Bills strength?   Isn't that odd?  

They played that way because they have the worst DBs in the NFL. They have to play like that. 

[Big Turk]

I think the question should be do the Fins have a passing game problem after the graphic into the 3rd quarter where the average air yards per completion was -0.5 yards meaning the average pass completed was behind the LOS. Yikes, WTF was that?

[blitzboy54]

10 hours ago, MikePJ76 said:

the obsession with wr's continues.

 

Its been almost two years of scoring 30 pts a game and winning like nearly every game and people still do not get it.

 

 

 

We were one Dolphin dumbass penalty from needing the ball back just to drive the field for a tie against a team that had 66 points hung on them the previous 2 weeks by (checks notes) Daniel Jones and Drake Maye. Perhaps there might be something to this. We make the easy things hard for going on 3 seasons now. If WR wasn't a problem then why did they pickup Cooper last year? They keep shopping in the clearance isle for WR and we get guys that can't do it when we really need them to. 

[The Cincinnati Kid]

9 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s not completely accurate. The Bills game plan ABSOLUTELY did not call for ONLY 1 throw of 10+ air yards. I promise that wasn’t the goal. Guys were blanketed all over the field. The video review is going to be brutal for the WRs. The Bills WRs are among the worst in the NFL. The Bills have scored a lot of points. Both of those are true. 
 

We have reached a point in this era, where beating a bad team at home by 10 is the expectation. We should all be happy with that today. At the same time, there are concerns that if you are playing KC in January, and guys can’t get open, and you lose (again), it’s a disaster. Josh Allen is halfway through his career and they haven’t played for a Super Bowl yet. When you see a problem, that’s VERY evident, there’s reason for concern even if it hasn’t cost them a game yet. 

They played that way because they have the worst DBs in the NFL. They have to play like that. 

Dude, I promise you the Bills were not trying to push the ball down the field. Josh consistently threw the ball as quickly as he could and consistently took the underneath throws. That is a combination of game plan (the whole plan includes how they wanted to pass protect which was man on man, no slides), personal groupings (lots of big sets) and an understanding of what the Dolphins were doing defensively. The Dolphins knew just as well as the Bills that they’re strength was their pass rush and their weakness were the corners, so they played deep safeties and tried to keep everything in front of them and rally to the football. So, Josh and the Bills took short passes around the LOS and let guys wiggle for gains of 5-10 yards on completions. Which, after a decent run play or two and 1 or 2 of those short passes make a 1st down. When then makes drives, which lead to scores. The hope is, for the defense, that the O will make a mistake and therefore punt. Josh and the O didn’t make many mistakes. They won as a result. You just can’t throw verts and posts into cover 4. 

Edited September 19 by The Cincinnati Kid

[BillsShredder83]

10 hours ago, ***** said:

Brady schemes a lot of guys open.  But it appears to me that 1v1 our guys get no separation or win matchups.  And it allows the D to key in on the running game and play is very tight and fill the box.  
 

We don’t take deep shots and our guys don’t win 1v1 so the D isn’t honest. 

Isnt Palmer supposed to be the 1 on 1 antidote?  Anybody seen film on him on those matchups?  Also, wondering if Elijah Moore is earnings himself some extra snaps!  Im not talking anything crazy, but seems like hes due for more time out there situationally

[gonzo1105]

31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They played a fair amount of cover 2, but I didn't chart it play by play or anything.

Yup, I noticed it as well. Weaver went back in the Time Machine and used a lot of the cover 2 2 shell concepts teams used on us to force us to take dump downs like 4 years ago. It was the fakes Beasley would have like 11 catches for 75 yards. It’s why you didn’t see a lot of explosive plays in this game 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, The Cincinnati Kid said:

Dude, I promise you the Bills were not trying to push the ball down the field. Josh consistently threw the ball as quickly as he could and consistently took the underneath throws. That is a combination of game plan (the whole plan includes how they wanted to pass protect which was man on man, no slides), personal groupings (lots of big sets) and an understanding of what the Dolphins were doing defensively. The Dolphins knew just as well as the Bills that they’re strength was their pass rush and their weakness were the corners, so they played deep safeties and tried to keep everything in front of them and rally to the football. So, Josh and the Bills took short passes around the LOS and let guys wiggle for gains of 5-10 yards on completions. Which, after a decent run play or two and 1 or 2 of those short passes make a 1st down. When then makes drives, which lead to scores. The hope is, for the defense, that the O will make a mistake and therefore punt. Josh and the O didn’t make many mistakes. They won as a result.

I didn’t say they were “trying to push the ball down the field.” What I did say is, “they absolutely did not intend to throw just 1 ball 10+ air yards.” Those do not mean the same thing. The WRs inability to get open against the worst DBs in football, prevented them from doing anything but what they did. Again, they scored plenty of points against a horrible defense. Will that work vs. KC in January? That’s the concern that a lot of us have. It’s a perfectly reasonable concern.

[BillsFan130]

23 minutes ago, The Cincinnati Kid said:

Sarcasm because this thread is the most “The Bills didn’t win they way I wanted them to win” vibe in recent memory. The game plan called for short, quick passes to backs and TEs but no deep balls so people aren’t happy and we have terrible pass catchers. So dumb.

It's a talking point I brought up as I don't just look at the score and pretend all is great. You know it was 21-21 and the bills were punting in the 4th quarter before the roughing the punter right? 3 straight punts in the 2nd half against the worst defence in the league doesn't concern you 1 bit, and you're just good looking at the box score knowing they won?

 

I am very happy they won. But im also not naive enough to know that for the most part, the 2nd half offence was a disaster 

[NoSaint]

19 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s not completely accurate. The Bills game plan ABSOLUTELY did not call for ONLY 1 throw of 10+ air yards. I promise that wasn’t the goal. Guys were blanketed all over the field. The video review is going to be brutal for the WRs. The Bills WRs are among the worst in the NFL. The Bills have scored a lot of points. Both of those are true. 
 

We have reached a point in this era, where beating a bad team at home by 10 is the expectation. We should all be happy with that today. At the same time, there are concerns that if you are playing KC in January, and guys can’t get open, and you lose (again), it’s a disaster. Josh Allen is halfway through his career and they haven’t played for a Super Bowl yet. When you see a problem, that’s VERY evident, there’s reason for concern even if it hasn’t cost them a game yet. 

They played that way because they have the worst DBs in the NFL. They have to play like that. 

nailed it. 
 

holding two truths here is the nature of the discussion. 

[Big Turk]

5 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

It's a talking point I brought up as I don't just look at the score and pretend all is great. You know it was 21-21 and the bills were punting in the 4th quarter before the roughing the punter right? 3 straight punts in the 2nd half against the worst defence in the league doesn't concern you 1 bit, and you're just good looking at the box score knowing they won?

 

I am very happy they won. But im also not naive enough to know that for the most part, the 2nd half offence was a disaster 

 

Just think the Bills feel they don't need to put things on film against these middling teams like Dolphins and Jets yet and that they can "get by" with basic stuff.

Edited September 19 by Big Turk

[BillsShredder83]

10 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I think this is more because there's no use in throttling games in three quarters and there's no adversity and no rhythm 

 

This is classic case of playing with your food and Brady teams did this for years throughout the regular season at points.. we're not opening up our full offense week three against a week opponents but we're also not trying to pull Josh at the end of the third quarter 

 

So it leads to JV level calls and it's just playing with your food until they want to finish it

G2 say I respect you as a poster here, but if this was someone else Id be thinking this is cope.  This game was close up until the INT.  You really think we were throttling back the offense to keep our offense close to the chest still?  Genuinely asking.  The no rhythm part I get, which is why I think they would open the offense up a bit early.  Josh is so good at the intermediate throws, and can cruise on those taking care of the ball so well that I dont see a downside to it.

 

Is there some rust still? WRs not getting open?  Dont get me wrong, Im absolutely LOVINGGG the heavy TE formations and how disguised it keeps everything.  It really puts defenses in a predicament!  Also, really glad to be putting some Hawes touches on film early in the season... keeps the defenses from trying to cheat in, such an advantaged plus formation.  But when were not running those, id like to see more intermediate and deep shots too.  I want to be as balanced as possible, and it seems like were (again) inviting teams to crowd the LOS.

 

I fully want to believe, and im far from worrying, but Id be lying if I said it wasnt a bit concerning for games down the road.  Short week, bad team, just trying to get out with a division win as healthy as possible.... I get all that 100% and happy as hell to be 3-0 with a mini-bye.  Im nitpicking a bit, just want to make sure we don't run into our midseason slumber again with the 1 seed being the most obtainable its been