Allen vs Mahomes, is this a controversial take?

[zow2]

Yeah, I kind of need a little break from roster talk.

 

I think at this stage of their careers, Allen is the better downfield passer and clearly the better runner (although Pat is a good scrambler when he needs to be and certainly has a good downfield arm when he uses it)..  However, I think many of us have seen that Mahomes is the better dink and dunker.  He's always been.   At the end of those close playoff games when KC needs a critical TD or FG, it's the dink and dunk plus Andy Reid play call mastery that gives KC a slight edge.  We've had two seasons in a row end with the ball in our hands, and the Bills can't take what the D gives and execute a short dump off to get the needed yardage.  I'm just wondering if the Bills start working on that more this season,,, or maybe they keep some plays in their back pocket for critical playoff moments.

[Special K]

This is not meant to be a slight at McDermott, but if you take Andy Reid away from Mahomes and give him to Josh Allen, the Bills would likely be the ones with 3 Super Bowl titles right now.

 

I truly think Andy Reid is the difference in these two very closely matched QB's and teams in general.

[dorquemada]

The other difference is that Mahomes has the benefit of a big game defense.  Until the Bills D can shut KC down when it counts, the Mahomes vs Allen debate is about as academic as it comes

[Brand J]

I think Mahomes in “gotta have it” moments makes the correct play more often than not, more than any other QB in the league. Allen is the bigger dual threat, but if you told me one of the two went 39/48 for 512 yards and 4 TDs, I would assume it’s Mahomes. He’s a better high volume passer and has proven it when throwing to JAGs.

[May Day 10]

7 minutes ago, Special K said:

This is not meant to be a slight at McDermott, but if you take Andy Reid away from Mahomes and give him to Josh Allen, the Bills would likely be the ones with 3 Super Bowl titles right now.

 

I truly think Andy Reid is the difference in these two very closely matched QB's and teams in general.

 

Andy Reid and Chris Jones.  

[RobbRiddick]

Mahomes is obviously a fantastic QB with an insane will to win but I still maintain if Andy Reid retired tomorrow he would be royally screwed and all the talk about him being potentially the best of all time would become laughable 

[T.E.]

Mahomes has played for probably the best offensive play-caller in history and has had long stints with two recievers (Kelce and Hill) who are likely more talented than anyone who has played receiver/TE for the Bills at any time during their franchise's history. Gotta be taken into account.

[dorquemada]

5 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

Andy Reid and Chris Jones.  

 

Spags.  give me that guy.

[GoBills808]

Mahomes started out in about as perfect a situation as you can ask for w the guy who turned Alex Smith into a Pro Bowler for HC and not one but two first ballot HoFers in their primes to throw at

 

learning how to play QB in the NFL under those circumstances (as opposed to Allen's, say) is a significant advantage

[Royale with Cheese]

17 minutes ago, Special K said:

This is not meant to be a slight at McDermott, but if you take Andy Reid away from Mahomes and give him to Josh Allen, the Bills would likely be the ones with 3 Super Bowl titles right now.

 

I truly think Andy Reid is the difference in these two very closely matched QB's and teams in general.

I think the difference is the Chiefs playoff defense.  
 

Andy Reids offense the last two years was very average.  They still made it to the Super Bowl because the defense carried them.

[dorquemada]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think the difference is the Chiefs playoff defense.  
 

Andy Reids offense the last two years was very average.  They still made it to the Super Bowl because the defense carried them.

 

To that point, if our regime would only invest more draft capital in defense, argle bargle barf

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think the difference is the Chiefs playoff defense.  
 

Andy Reids offense the last two years was very average.  They still made it to the Super Bowl because the defense carried them.

i think it's more testament to how terrible our own defense has been that we'd consider allowing an average of over 24ppg 'carrying'

[HomeskillitMoorman]

30 minutes ago, Special K said:

This is not meant to be a slight at McDermott, but if you take Andy Reid away from Mahomes and give him to Josh Allen, the Bills would likely be the ones with 3 Super Bowl titles right now.

 

I truly think Andy Reid is the difference in these two very closely matched QB's and teams in general.

 

I don't really even think it's Reid being so masterful...I think it's just that he actually adds something positive to his side of the ball

Edited 1 hour ago by HomeskillitMoorman

[Gregg]

10 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

To that point, if our regime would only invest more draft capital in defense, argle bargle barf

 

According to this article Beane comes in at #8

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/football/nfl-power-rankings-final-gm-rankings-before-the-2025-regular-season/ar-AA1LkKip?ocid=BingNewsSerp

[wjag]

I think the difference is Mahommes makes THE play when they need it the most.  

[HardyBoy]

The defensive injuries have been absolutely brutal for the bills in the playoff games against the chiefs.

 

Like imagine going from Darrell Revis or Champ Bailey (Benford is really really really good) to a non-scheme fit player who didn't get the first team reps in practice, in Arrowhead in a sudden change situation...and a coach who is going to anticipate every adjustment you're making.

 

How was Andy Reid's scheme against the Eagles?

 

Now that said, maybe McD being from the Jimmie Johnson tree helped because Andy Reid has so much familiarity with that style? Not the overall defensive design, but the underlying super granular concepts

[Mikie2times]

People are sleeping on him big time again, which you have seen play out before with Brady. His last two years have been fairly meh, but would I be suprised if he drops a 40 TD year? Not in the least. The Chiefs aren't going away as much as people like to be trendy and predict it. 

[Royale with Cheese]

9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

i think it's more testament to how terrible our own defense has been that we'd consider allowing an average of over 24ppg 'carrying'

 

Its because the Chiefs offense has been that bad.  They are at Tyrod Taylor production the last 2 years.

The offense was worse that the defense in this past Super Bowl.  23 yards at half time, punted the ball 5 times and had 2 INT's.  You can't keep giving a team like the Eagles the ball back.

 

In 2023, the Chiefs playoff opponents averaged 15 ppg.  They allowed 10 to the #1 seed Ravens at Baltimore.

 

Without a top level defense, the Chiefs aren't getting anywhere near the Super Bowl.  

[DapperCam]

31 minutes ago, Brand J said:

I think Mahomes in “gotta have it” moments makes the correct play more often than not, more than any other QB in the league. Allen is the bigger dual threat, but if you told me one of the two went 39/48 for 512 yards and 4 TDs, I would assume it’s Mahomes. He’s a better high volume passer and has proven it when throwing to JAGs.

Mahomes has had a real dip in his passing stats the past 2 seasons with Hill gone and Kelce slowing down. I’m curious to see how his career continues to go because he’s been pretty pedestrian for 2 seasons now. Rice is a great WR but will probably miss 6 games and who knows after the ACL.

 

FWIW, Allen’s best passing seasons were with a top-5 WR in Diggs. So I think having a great receiver is important for high volume passing.

[QB Bills]

They should build a statue of McDermott outside of arrowhead. He's the real MVP of that dynasty.