Bills cuts discussion

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

 

I'm with Appoo. Hamlin gets way too much scrutiny because of his health scare.

Every team in the NFL -- EVERY SINGLE TEAM -- has backup and special teams level players. That's what Hamlin is. Do you want him starting for your team most weeks? Nope. Is he an NFL caliber player? Absolutely.

I mean...hell...he started the majority of the season last year for a team that went to the AFC Championship game and had the 12th ranked scoring defense in the league. And people wanna say he doesn't even belong on an NFL roster? It's silly.

As convinced as some people are that the emotional factor around Hamlin clouds the coaches' judgement with regard to his level of play, I'm JUST AS convinced that its THOSE FANS whose judgement of said player is clouded by the emotional factor. I'm convinced that people are way harder on him (for reasons I can guess at, but need not spiral off into and derail this thread) because of what he went through than they'd be otherwise.

 

Lol. See what you did there. You aptly described him as a backup special teams quality player. The problem is he was the starter before the injury and most of last year. 

[Buffalo03]

Did we release Elijah Moore yet?

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, gonzo1105 said:

I just think it makes sense to trade him for business purposes if you think Lundt can develop. You get Lundt on 4 years of cheap contract. Acquire a draft pick for RVD and avoid giving him the RFA tag that is like 3.5 million now in addition to the extra 3 years of team control you would get vs RVD.  From a business perspective it makes sense to move him 

and the NFL is a business after all. Question is could be get a starting caliber CB for RVD or do we have to package a lower pick too?

[mannc]

Just now, gonzo1105 said:

I just think it makes sense to trade him for business purposes if you think Lundt can develop. You get Lundt on 4 years of cheap contract. Acquire a draft pick for RVD and avoid giving him the RFA tag that is like 3.5 million now in addition to the extra 3 years of team control you would get vs RVD.  From a business perspective it makes sense to move him 

Supposedly, Lundt can’t play tackle in the NFL, and RVD is somewhat of a proven commodity, although perhaps redundant if Grable is healthy.

[RoscoeParrish]

5 minutes ago, thurst44 said:

In 2022, they had the number 2 defense and he started 13 games. As most people who study the film will attest, Hamlin's a quality backup who can play adequately if need be. 

 

He's not there b/c of "charity" or "character," but because he is a solid backup who is a veteran in the system and this idea that he wouldn't be on any other roster is downright silly.

 

 

He commanded the 63rd highest safety salary in FA this offseason. 
 

The NFL told you what they think of him. 63rd best safety in a league where there’s only 64 starters

 

He’s making the same salary as Siran Neal playing ST.

 

The debate is over

[The Jokeman]

Just now, Buffalo03 said:

Did we release Elijah Moore yet?

I could see us trading him, maybe to Minnesota?

[appoo]

10 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I think many of us don't feel he is an average player. Many of us feel if he wasn't on the Bills roster he wouldn't be on any roster, thus far below an average player. And lastly many of us are worried that his story clouds the judgement on his ability. 

Im happy for him. Its a great story. Hopefully Bishop plays well and he hardly sees the field. 

He wasn't the reason why the Bills struggled on D last year.  I mean pff is just another data point but:

 

 

again an average player. In a Capped league, you need average players

[The Jokeman]

Just now, mannc said:

Supposedly, Lundt can’t play tackle in the NFL, and RVD is somewhat of a proven commodity, although perhaps redundant if Grable is healthy.

Toss is Alec Anderson can play tackle, assuming he's healthy. 

[appoo]

3 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Lol. See what you did there. You aptly described him as a backup special teams quality player. The problem is he was the starter before the injury and most of last year. 

right, he's a borderline starter/reserve for a team wanting to go to the SB. That's the entire definition of being average

[Ethan in Cleveland]

5 minutes ago, Trust The Process said:

 

You and I obviously disagree on the definition of what a ''good player and productive player'' is. In my opinion, a ''good player'' is a starter or deserves to start.

A ''productive player'' is a backup or role player.

 

Having said that, from 2018-2024, Brandon Beane drafted 15 players in rounds 2 and 3, and traded away an additional two 3rd round picks for Rasul Douglas and Amari Cooper, which makes it a subtotal of 17 picks.

 

2018: Harrison Phillips

2019: Cody Ford, Devin Singletary, Dawson Knox

2020: A.J. Epenesa, Zack Moss

2021: Boogie Basham, Spencer Brown

2022: James Cook, Terrel Bernard

2023: O’Cyrus Torrence, Dorian Williams

2024: Keon Coleman, Cole Bishop, DeWayne Carter

 

In my opinion, 5 of the highlighted names above of the 15 total names drafted by Brandon Beane are wasted draft picks because they didn't live up to expectations from premium 2nd and 3rd round draft picks.

 

As far as the 2024 draft goes, it's too early to determine whether or not Coleman, Bishop and Carter are worth 2nd and 3rd round picks, but as of today Bishop and much more so Carter, aren't looking good which could very well end up being a total of 7 bad premium draft picks we didn't get a good return on investment on.

 

I changed my mind and listed Rasul Douglas as worthy of giving up a 3rd round pick because he gave us 2 good years as CB2. 

We drafted Edefuan Ulofoshio with the 5th round pick we received from the Packers in the Rasul Douglas trade. Ulofoshio is a failure and just got released.

 

Amari Cooper on other hand is a wasted 3rd round pick because the return on investment was a pathetic 1 year rental who played a total of 8 games and only got 20 receptions for 297 yards and 2 TD's, and in addition was a ghost in the AFC Championship game when we needed him the most had only 4 catches for 33 yards.

 

By my count, Ford, Singletary, Epenesa, Moss, Basham, and giving up a 3rd round pick in a trade for Amari Cooper, makes it a minimum of 6 wasted draft picks out of 12 from 2018 to 2023.

 

There's a very good odds that it'll end up being 8 wasted draft picks IF Bishop and Carter continues to struggle and not live up to expectations. 

I wouldn't say Singletary was a wasted pick. He was ok starter.

Time will tell on Cooper. Was it the player, injury, or Brady's inability to incorporate him? He made a handful of catches last year that others guys don't make. But I understand the disappointment.  

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

2 hours ago, stlbills13 said:

 

We had a "combine" to determine our fantasy football draft order last week. My 5'9, 163 lb, 34 year old self ran a 4.88 40 with 1 rep on the bench press. I think I'm qualified to make the team. 

 And we’d still take your old ass over Dane Jackson.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I wouldn't say Singletary was a wasted pick. He was ok starter.

Time will tell on Cooper. Was it the player, injury, or Brady's inability to incorporate him? He made a handful of catches last year that others guys don't make. But I understand the disappointment.  

 

After that awkward landing on that TD against the Jets, he never really looked the same.  

[appoo]

But I'll also say if you just leave Damar in the box, he'll actually play WELL. His run fits are pretty good, he rarely misses tackles, almost never misses an assignment. He works around his lack of speed with being great in the film room and being instinctive on where to be.  Where he runs into trouble is in coverage where doesn't close well, and has to play conservatively to make up for a lack of speed

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 minute ago, appoo said:

right, he's a borderline starter/reserve for a team wanting to go to the SB. That's the entire definition of being average

Again not to quibble but most of us don't see him as even a borderline starter. 

Bishop developing makes the argument moot

[Captain Hindsight]

28 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said:

 

He just did nothing 

Yeah, I don’t even remember reading anything about him

[thurst44]

7 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said:

He commanded the 63rd highest safety salary in FA this offseason. 
 

The NFL told you what they think of him. 63rd best safety in a league where there’s only 64 starters

 

He’s making the same salary as Siran Neal playing ST.

 

The debate is over

Did I say he's a starter? I guess I should have been more precise with my language--he's an adequate spot starter.

 

While I don't really buy the logic you proposed, I said he's a quality backup who is an adequate starter when need be, so 63rd best safety in the league would mathematically translate to an above average back-up. 

 

People are saying he doesn't belong in the league. That's silly. 

Edited August 26 by thurst44

[Ralonzo]

8 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

Yep - knows the system too, played special teams for us before and can again.  Whenever i see other teams giving up wide open TDs it's usually when there's inexperience in the back end.  

 

Is there a preference to giving up long TD's through being overmatched mentally, or physically? Damar is the latter.

[Logic]

3 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Lol. See what you did there. You aptly described him as a backup special teams quality player. The problem is he was the starter before the injury and most of last year. 

He's a backup and special teams quality player who -- due to a lack of superior options on the roster, which is a Brandon Beane and Cole Bishop problem, not a Hamlin problem -- was pressed into starting duty last year. He had good moments and bad moments. The defense on which he played finished 12th in points per game allowed, and the team on which he played was a drive away from going to the Super Bowl.

But understand this: saying that he's a backup and special teams quality payer who you'd rather not have starting for your team most weeks is a world away from saying he doesn't belong on an NFL roster or only has a spot because the coaches feel bad for him, which is the silliness that a lot of people try to push.

Also, I would love to know what teams are just swimming in upper echelon, starting caliber safeties. What NFL teams go four and five deep with starting caliber, above-replacement-level safeties? Can you name, say, three such teams?

 

[Ralonzo]

7 minutes ago, mannc said:

Supposedly, Lundt can’t play tackle in the NFL, and RVD is somewhat of a proven commodity, although perhaps redundant if Grable is healthy.

 

Lundt has the feet for it, just not the ass. It's the bull rushes that are moving him; that can be worked on.

[TH3]

12 minutes ago, Trust The Process said:

 

You and I obviously disagree on the definition of what a ''good player and productive player'' is. In my opinion, a ''good player'' is a starter or deserves to start.

A ''productive player'' is a backup or role player.

 

Having said that, from 2018-2024, Brandon Beane drafted 15 players in rounds 2 and 3, and traded away an additional two 3rd round picks for Rasul Douglas and Amari Cooper, which makes it a subtotal of 17 picks.

 

2018: Harrison Phillips

2019: Cody Ford, Devin Singletary, Dawson Knox

2020: A.J. Epenesa, Zack Moss

2021: Boogie Basham, Spencer Brown

2022: James Cook, Terrel Bernard

2023: O’Cyrus Torrence, Dorian Williams

2024: Keon Coleman, Cole Bishop, DeWayne Carter

 

In my opinion, 5 of the highlighted names above of the 15 total names drafted by Brandon Beane are wasted draft picks because they didn't live up to expectations from premium 2nd and 3rd round draft picks.

 

As far as the 2024 draft goes, it's too early to determine whether or not Coleman, Bishop and Carter are worth 2nd and 3rd round picks, but as of today Bishop and much more so Carter, aren't looking good which could very well end up being a total of 7 bad premium draft picks we didn't get a good return on investment on.

 

I changed my mind and listed Rasul Douglas as worthy of giving up a 3rd round pick because he gave us 2 good years as CB2. 

We drafted Edefuan Ulofoshio with the 5th round pick we received from the Packers in the Rasul Douglas trade. Ulofoshio is a failure and just got released.

 

Amari Cooper on other hand is a wasted 3rd round pick because the return on investment was a pathetic 1 year rental who played a total of 8 games and only got 20 receptions for 297 yards and 2 TD's, and in addition was a ghost in the AFC Championship game when we needed him the most had only 4 catches for 33 yards.

 

By my count, Ford, Singletary, Epenesa, Moss, Basham, and giving up a 3rd round pick in a trade for Amari Cooper, makes it a minimum of 6 wasted draft picks out of 12 from 2018 to 2023.

 

There's a very good odds that it'll end up being 8 wasted draft picks IF Bishop and Carter continues to struggle and not live up to expectations. 

I can’t believe bb can’t hit on every draft pick either!!