The safety position as per Bobby Babich

[DJB]

Very interesting read. Clearly the Bills value guys that can play in the box and deep covering the field and to be interchangeable. It obviously helps with disguising the defence from the QB a little more . 
 

Man we had it good with Micah and Poyer and didn’t probably realize it as much at the time . 
 

What’s also interesting 

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, DJB said:

Man we had it good with Micah and Poyer and didn’t probably realize it as much at the time . 

 

Oh I did. They were both B+/A- players individually, extremely consistent and their partnership was absolutely A+ elite.

[NORWOODS FOOT]

This is what makes Caleb Downs (Ohio State) such an amazing player is that he basically does everything at such a plus level. 

I’m probably most impressed at how he almost NEVER misses a tackle in space on anyone.
 

Can’t wait to see how he does in the pros. 
 

Baring disaster for our season or his health, we have no chance at him, but what a perfect fit.

[Utah John]

Hyde and Poyer were excellent athletes, but I think what really set them apart as a unit was they were so damn smart.  They worked together perfectly, and QBs simply couldn't fool them.  

[boyst]

there is so much here to say about this that it is infuriating that the position is so misunderstood. in our defense it is more complex than most any other system and people think "oh, we're just a tampa 2."

 

because we play a lot of nickel we don't have 3 LB's on the field and the opportunity to have a big nickel is not available. taron johnson isn't that guy. if we could get to dime with a big safety playing 3-2-6.... that'd be something. but, we don't have poop for a pass rush with 4 so 3 could never get it done.

 

think back to the Mario Williams, Jerry Hughes, Marcel Dareus, and more days and prior...Those guys pushed the pocket around and caused chaos. our mediocre DB's were able to ballhawk the hell out of the defense which gave rise during our premier pass rushing days to the legends of Byrd, Alonso. Those guys were glorified because of our pass rush.

 

Now our pass rush sucks, our db's look weak, and we have been spoiled by two of the best to pair together in the league history.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Utah John said:

Hyde and Poyer were excellent athletes, but I think what really set them apart as a unit was they were so damn smart.  They worked together perfectly, and QBs simply couldn't fool them.  

 

Indeed they fooled QBs. The Bills used to run disguised coverage at the highest rate in the NFL. They are struggling to do that now with sub standard safety play. Belichick used to call them the smartest safety duo in the league. With good reason.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

6 minutes ago, boyst said:

there is so much here to say about this that it is infuriating that the position is so misunderstood. in our defense it is more complex than most any other system and people think "oh, we're just a tampa 2."

 

because we play a lot of nickel we don't have 3 LB's on the field and the opportunity to have a big nickel is not available. taron johnson isn't that guy. if we could get to dime with a big safety playing 3-2-6.... that'd be something. but, we don't have poop for a pass rush with 4 so 3 could never get it done.

 

think back to the Mario Williams, Jerry Hughes, Marcel Dareus, and more days and prior...Those guys pushed the pocket around and caused chaos. our mediocre DB's were able to ballhawk the hell out of the defense which gave rise during our premier pass rushing days to the legends of Byrd, Alonso. Those guys were glorified because of our pass rush.

 

Now our pass rush sucks, our db's look weak, and we have been spoiled by two of the best to pair together in the league history.

 

I think its a tad overblown on the pass rush "sucks".  The team was 10th in pressure rate a year ago (with the 5th lowest blitz %), added several young pieces as well as joey bosa.  They were also #3 in takeaways which is usually somewhat influenced by a pass rush.  

[EmotionallyUnstable]

When you try to find guys who are good at everything, it often leads to having a player who isn’t great at anything. This is especially true when you don’t pay for a position in FA or draft high enough to pick elite skills or traits. 
 

[Shortchaz]

4 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

When you try to find guys who are good at everything, it often leads to having a player who isn’t great at anything. This is especially true when you don’t pay for a position in FA or draft high enough to pick elite skills or traits. 
 

All this defense needs to succeed is guys who can do everything at a high level at every position. 

[SCBills]

15 minutes ago, boyst said:

there is so much here to say about this that it is infuriating that the position is so misunderstood. in our defense it is more complex than most any other system and people think "oh, we're just a tampa 2."

 

because we play a lot of nickel we don't have 3 LB's on the field and the opportunity to have a big nickel is not available. taron johnson isn't that guy. if we could get to dime with a big safety playing 3-2-6.... that'd be something. but, we don't have poop for a pass rush with 4 so 3 could never get it done.

 

think back to the Mario Williams, Jerry Hughes, Marcel Dareus, and more days and prior...Those guys pushed the pocket around and caused chaos. our mediocre DB's were able to ballhawk the hell out of the defense which gave rise during our premier pass rushing days to the legends of Byrd, Alonso. Those guys were glorified because of our pass rush.

 

Now our pass rush sucks, our db's look weak, and we have been spoiled by two of the best to pair together in the league history.

If our pass rush sucks this year, something drastic needs to be done. 
 

In reality, we’ve had a decent pass rush most years in terms of pressure rate, but like everyone else on that side of the ball they fold and/or get hurt in the playoffs. 
 

Bosa - Jones - Oliver - Rousseau

 

On paper, that’s a Top 10 DL

 

Add in Hoecht and Epenesa as our DE3 and DE4, and I’d contend from what Hoecht has shown, that’s pretty strong as well.  
 

Issue then becomes, do the rookies Jackson, Sanders and Walker give us anything?  And does Carter have any second year juice whatsoever.  Ogunjobi seems like vet insurance for Week 7 if the answer above is no. 
 

When healthy, off-suspension, I think we have 4 plus guys in Bosa, Rousseau, Oliver and Hoecht.  Then a lot of unknown with Jones at his age and a bunch of rookies/second year players. 
 

Given the investment, this Defense better have the pass rush juice of former years that you spoke of. 

[Shortchaz]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

If our pass rush sucks this year, something drastic needs to be done. 
 

In reality, we’ve had a decent pass rush most years in terms of pressure rate, but like everyone else on that side of the ball they fold and/or get hurt in the playoffs. 
 

Bosa - Jones - Oliver - Rousseau

 

On paper, that’s a Top 10 DL

 

Add in Hoecht and Epenesa as our DE3 and DE4, and I’d contend from what Hoecht has shown, that’s pretty strong as well.  
 

Issue then becomes, do the rookies Jackson, Sanders and Walker give us anything?  And does Carter have any second year juice whatsoever.  Ogunjobi seems like vet insurance for Week 7 if the answer above is no. 
 

When healthy, off-suspension, I think we have 4 plus guys in Bosa, Rousseau, Oliver and Hoecht.  Then a lot of unknown with Jones at his age and a bunch of rookies/second year players. 
 

Given the investment, this Defense better have the pass rush juice of former years that you spoke of. 

I agree. this is all McDermott gets, if he can’t put a monster together with what he has then…

[Fan boy '92]

To be fair, Bishop was on the field for one series vs Chicago. 

[SCBills]

Let’s say, best case scenario.. Bishop pulls a Bernard and becomes a plus level Safety. 
 

Does anyone trust Rapp/Bishop to stay healthy all season?  Due to Rapp’s play style and Bishop’s injury history since entering the league, we must have one of the most brittle Safety duos in the league. 
 

Which is why Hamlin catches so much heat, fairly or unfairly.   Hes been a pseudo-starter in this Defense. 
 

I can see them not bringing in a Simmons because they believe in Bishop, but whether it’s Hancock and/or one of these depth/rotation trades we’ve seen yesterday, I think we need to think strongly about upgrading Safety depth when our depth there is constantly tested. 

[Royale with Cheese]

11 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Let’s say, best case scenario.. Bishop pulls a Bernard and becomes a plus level Safety. 
 

Does anyone trust Rapp/Bishop to stay healthy all season?  Due to Rapp’s play style and Bishop’s injury history since entering the league, we must have one of the most brittle Safety duos in the league. 
 

Which is why Hamlin catches so much heat, fairly or unfairly.   Hes been a pseudo-starter in this Defense. 
 

I can see them not bringing in a Simmons because they believe in Bishop, but whether it’s Hancock and/or one of these depth/rotation trades we’ve seen yesterday, I think we need to think strongly about upgrading Safety depth when our depth there is constantly tested. 

 

Yeah I expect them to draft safety high next year.  It seems like this position is more important to our defense that others.  We need real talent back there.

I think this could be one of our midseason trades like we did with Amari Cooper/Rasul Douglas if we don't get the production with Bishop.

[Mark80]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

Man we had it good with Micah and Poyer and didn’t probably realize it as much at the time . 

Come on now.  Hyde was 2 time second team all pro, Poyer was 1 time first team all pro.  We all knew how good we had it.

Edited 11 minutes ago by Mark80

[dave mcbride]

23 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Let’s say, best case scenario.. Bishop pulls a Bernard and becomes a plus level Safety. 
 

Does anyone trust Rapp/Bishop to stay healthy all season?  Due to Rapp’s play style and Bishop’s injury history since entering the league, we must have one of the most brittle Safety duos in the league. 
 

Which is why Hamlin catches so much heat, fairly or unfairly.   Hes been a pseudo-starter in this Defense. 
 

I can see them not bringing in a Simmons because they believe in Bishop, but whether it’s Hancock and/or one of these depth/rotation trades we’ve seen yesterday, I think we need to think strongly about upgrading Safety depth when our depth there is constantly tested. 

Bishop played the full season last year and was available for all three playoff games. He missed time in camp last year and also a little time this year, but I don't think it's fair to say he's injury prone. 

[Logic]

I think the understanding of positional responsibilities and interchangeability -- not to mention scheme and personnel deployment -- among most NFL fans lags quite far behind reality.

The old fashioned understanding of strong and free safeties as mentioned here, the differences in responsibility and body type between a 4-3 and 3-4 defensive end (it took a long time for "Edge" to become a common nomenclature for NFL fans, and even then, the Pro Bowl voting still doesn't differentiate between these things), the interchangeability of linebackers in modern defenses, and the common fan perception of a specific and numbered wide receiver depth chart when, in reality, coaches don't think in such terms.

Just a few examples of the massive gulf in knowledge and understanding between fans and coaches/players. There are different levels to football knowledge for fans, of course, but just about all of them lag far behind reality. And I include myself in the "there's so much we don't know or outright misperceive" pile, lest anyone think I'm being holier than thou.

It's one of the reasons I wish there was more mainstream educational/informed NFL programming. Matchup shows, scheme and positional explanations, etc. That stuff all exists in the amateur blogosphere and sometimes in spaces like SiriusXM radio, but there doesn't seem to be much of a market for it on ESPN or NFLN. Most fans are content not knowing what they don't know.

Edited 2 minutes ago by Logic

[Big Blitz]

2 hours ago, DJB said:

Very interesting read. Clearly the Bills value guys that can play in the box and deep covering the field and to be interchangeable. It obviously helps with disguising the defence from the QB a little more . 
 

Man we had it good with Micah and Poyer and didn’t probably realize it as much at the time . 
 

What’s also interesting 

 

 

My takeaway is now we’re even writing the word “right” that concludes nearly every statement by McD, coaches, some players, and everyone else around this team even its beat reporters.

And it’s driving me insane.  

 

BB 4 times in that exchange alone, right?