Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season game 1

[Not at the table Karlos]

7 hours ago, MJS said:

That's so funny you were down on Michael Hoecht because Joe Marino raved about him and said he was excellent in run defense, had a great get off, and was the most effective pass rusher.

His get off was definitely impressive. Had a nice bull rush that moved the qb from his spot but he missed the tackle and iirc the qb ran for a first. He showed flashes but didn’t finish. 

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, MJS said:

That's so funny you were down on Michael Hoecht because Joe Marino raved about him and said he was excellent in run defense, had a great get off, and was the most effective pass rusher.

 

Not for the first time this week I disagree with Joe. He lost rush discipline multiple times. 

8 hours ago, Low Positive said:

I knew people would overreact to a meaningless game, but this board is really over the top with negativity right now. I'm just happy nobody got hurt.

 

I do good night / bad night after every pre season game win or lose and have done for multiple years. These games are about what you learn and I try and hone in on what the Bills will have learned and how much it all matters. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, eball said:

Maybe I’m naive, but it feels odd to me to complain about 3rd down defense when there is no scheming going on. They are literally just playing a base defense to watch what guys do. 
 

 

Fair, but also fair that it is my single biggest concern going into 2025 about the entire team. It was woeful last year. I would imagine it has been a point of emphasis the entire off season. And yet they were really disappointing yesterday. It isn't just scheme either. It is basics. Tackling, spacing, synchronisation of rush and coverage. Those things don't need creative scheming and when you get more creative scheme wise you better have those fundamentals down pat.

[BillsFan130]

6 hours ago, MJS said:

I trust him a lot more than anyone here. He puts in the work. And his takes tend to match up with what I see as well, although I know a lot less than he does about schemes and technique, etc.

Overall he's great. Just sometimes a little bit too analytical driven for me 

[davefan66]

Wouldn’t get too concerned over how the defense played as a whole,  or how individuals played.  McD’s defenses are good and he gets the most out of his players…not concerned.

 

This was a preseason game with a vanilla defense and no game planning.  The Giants/Daboll have many reason they needed to play well and am sure they schemed more than us.

[MJS]

6 hours ago, BillytheKid said:

The thing is both of the other two guys on that show with Joe today, Jeremy and Jerry both thought Hoecht looked really great today as well. So that’s 3 of them.

 

I won’t comment on it since I saw some of the game but not all of it and didn’t catch a lot of what he did. 
 

Seems to be a big difference of opinion though. 

They always agree with Joe Marino and kind of default to him, though. So there is that.

[MikePJ76]

31 minutes ago, davefan66 said:

Wouldn’t get too concerned over how the defense played as a whole,  or how individuals played.  McD’s defenses are good and he gets the most out of his players…not concerned.

 

This was a preseason game with a vanilla defense and no game planning.  The Giants/Daboll have many reason they needed to play well and am sure they schemed more than us.

While I agree, there should be some level of concern in regards to the defensive line.  The giants threw the ball 51 times and the bills only got close a few times.  
 

the giants were without their left tackle and wr#1.  The ball came out quick and Buffalo was without Bernard, rapp and bishop but still. 
 

scheme or not, generally when a team plays its starters on the defensive line in a home preseason game vs other teams backups they get home a few times.  It’s just part of the sloppy play of preseason.

 

mine of yesterday means anything and they will scheme lineman into favorable matchups and get sacks but it has to be a little concerning that no one could beat the guy In front of them and get home over 51 pass attempts.

[White Linen]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Fair, but also fair that it is my single biggest concern going into 2025 about the entire team. It was woeful last year. I would imagine it has been a point of emphasis the entire off season. And yet they were really disappointing yesterday. It isn't just scheme either. It is basics. Tackling, spacing, synchronisation of rush and coverage. Those things don't need creative scheming and when you get more creative scheme wise you better have those fundamentals down pat.

 

Synchronisation and scheming are essentially synonyms.  Tackling and spacing are an effect of the lack of game planning.  Not the whole reason to be sure.  It's one of the reasons to largely ignore pre-season games and why they often look discombobulated.  

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

Synchronisation and scheming are essentially synonyms.  Tackling and spacing are an effect of the lack of game planning.  Not the whole reason to be sure.  It's one of the reasons to largely ignore pre-season games and why they often look discombobulated.  

 

I don't think they are synonyms. In every defensive call you want the rush and the coverage to compliment each other. Its as much getting timing down as anything.

Edited August 10 by GunnerBill

[DrDawkinstein]

For whatever it's worth...

 

 

Probably not going to get a lot of 3rd down stops that way. Nor have guys in good positions to make plays. 

[BillsFan130]

12 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

For whatever it's worth...

 

 

Probably not going to get a lot of 3rd down stops that way. Nor have guys in good positions to make plays. 

The only thing I really look at is D line vs O line on 1 on 1 matchups.

Would have liked to see more 1 on 1 wins on the D line, (there were a few for sure) but ya can't take too much from the scheming and whatnot 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

17 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

For whatever it's worth...

 

 

Probably not going to get a lot of 3rd down stops that way. Nor have guys in good positions to make plays. 

It would explain a lot if McD is at 0-1 with game planning in the postseason as well

[LEBills]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Really encouraging on Chase. Just because of how I was watching yesterday I didn't get the chance to really focus in on the OL. That needs my 100% concentration, but I have heard a few folks say he played well. 

 

I really struggle to imagine the Bills cutting him loose.

I agree, as you had mentioned in a separate thread I think SVPG to IR or cut is more likely than Lundt being released.

[RoscoeParrish]

20 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

For whatever it's worth...

 

 

Probably not going to get a lot of 3rd down stops that way. Nor have guys in good positions to make plays. 

Giants’ defense probably didn’t gameplan much either and held the Bills to 1-9.

 

its preseason but something to monitor. I would like to see more individual plays made on the defensive side. If we are relying on coaching/playcalling to make up the difference, it’s a tough ask to maintain in the postseason.

[Walking Tall]

16 hours ago, NickelCity said:

Oh, I should probably mention that Ty Johnson is still the man.

My favorite player on the team!

 

Anyway, to Shavers….he just looks the part when he’s on the field. I hope the Bills not only keep him but give him a legitimate chance to be a difference maker. I think he’s up to the task.

[HappyDays]

7 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Regarding the #3 TE competition, it really didn't look like either Davidson, or Hawes had a particularly good showing as tight ends. But Davidson did have at least one good play on special teams. I wouldn't put Hawes ahead of him just yet.

 

Hawes is ahead of him because of his blocking. That will be the TE3's primary job this year. His drop yesterday was brutal but he also had several blocking reps that looked like this:

 

Davidson needed to catch every pass in his vicinity to have even a small of chance of making the roster.

[UKBillFan]

3 hours ago, davefan66 said:

Wouldn’t get too concerned over how the defense played as a whole,  or how individuals played.  McD’s defenses are good and he gets the most out of his players…not concerned.

 

This was a preseason game with a vanilla defense and no game planning.  The Giants/Daboll have many reason they needed to play well and am sure they schemed more than us.

 

I would agree if struggling to get to the QB plus a weakness at 3rd and long weren't issues which have occured on numerous occasions during competitive games.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, RoscoeParrish said:

Giants’ defense probably didn’t gameplan much either and held the Bills to 1-9.

 

its preseason but something to monitor. I would like to see more individual plays made on the defensive side. If we are relying on coaching/playcalling to make up the difference, it’s a tough ask to maintain in the postseason.

 

I get what you guys are saying, I'm a known McD doubter, especially when it comes to playoff time.

 

But the Giants played their starting QB and are trying different things with bringing Dart along yesterday. We started Trubisky, then moved to White, and our situation is very different.

 

I'd also argue that coaching/playcalling IS the difference in the postseason, and that's been the problem.

 

But whatevs, preseason game 1 down.

[SCBills]

3 hours ago, davefan66 said:

Wouldn’t get too concerned over how the defense played as a whole,  or how individuals played.  McD’s defenses are good and he gets the most out of his players…not concerned.

 

This was a preseason game with a vanilla defense and no game planning.  The Giants/Daboll have many reason they needed to play well and am sure they schemed more than us.

Im not concerned based on one vanilla

preseason game with limited reps for higher end guys.  
 

But this fanbase is far beyond giving McDermott a pass.   His Defense has been THE biggest reason we haven’t gotten to the Super Bowl and it’s the same issues every year.   Last year we got the bonus of a bad regular season defense plus the bad postseason defense. 

[MJS]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Not for the first time this week I disagree with Joe. He lost rush discipline multiple times. 

He doubled down in his podcast and went even further, stating that he was the best Bills player on the field.