Is Cook worth it?

[BillsFanForever19]

2 hours ago, julian said:

I don’t want my GM trying to win the NFL salary cap award of the year, I want them trying to get elite level players at virtually any cost while Josh Allen remains the QB.

 

 I understand many fans see it as you do.

 

You speak as if we're already winning the "salary cap award of the year".

 

As it is, we're having to budget shop. You want a DK Metcalf or Terry McLaurin? Best we can do is Joshua Palmer and Elijah Moore. You want us to swing for the fences on a DE that's on the market? Best we can do is Joey Bosa. Want to go get a stud CB? Best we can do is Tre White, Dane Jackson, and Draft Picks. Think DaQuan Jones is toast? All good, we'll get a 1T in Round 4.

And through all of that and the economy moves to mid-tier moves, we're dead last in the league in Salary Cap - sitting at -750k. Next year, we sit at -2.93 million with at least 17 players who will make this roster needing to be re-signed or replaced. Including 4 of our to be rostered Offensive Lineman, 2 of which starters. 

 

We aren't remotely close to winning in the salary cap game right now. Haven't been in a good many years. We're in rough, rough shape. I don't believe the kind of contract that Micah Parsons will demand is feasible. And if it is, the amount of players in the coming years we'd have no choice to let walk would be staggering.

 

Everyone likes to point to the Rams. It's no guarantee that going "all in" like the Rams did will guarantee the same result. And if you do that and not get to the promised land, we're putting Josh in even more hell for years to come and wasting more of his years.

[julian]

16 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

You speak as if we're already winning the "salary cap award of the year".

 

As it is, we're having to budget shop. You want a DK Metcalf or Terry McLaurin? Best we can do is Joshua Palmer and Elijah Moore. You want us to swing for the fences on a DE that's on the market? Best we can do is Joey Bosa. Want to go get a stud CB? Best we can do is Tre White, Dane Jackson, and Draft Picks. Think DaQuan Jones is toast? All good, we'll get a 1T in Round 4.

And through all of that and the economy moves to mid-tier moves, we're dead last in the league in Salary Cap - sitting at -750k. Next year, we sit at -2.93 million with at least 17 players who will make this roster needing to be re-signed or replaced. Including 4 of our to be rostered Offensive Lineman, 2 of which starters. 

 

We aren't remotely close to winning in the salary cap game right now. Haven't been in a good many years. We're in rough, rough shape. I don't believe the kind of contract that Micah Parsons will demand is feasible. And if it is, the amount of players in the coming years we'd have no choice to let walk would be staggering.

 

Everyone likes to point to the Rams. It's no guarantee that going "all in" like the Rams did will guarantee the same result. And if you do that and not get to the promised land, we're putting Josh in even more hell for years to come and wasting more of his years.

lol… I never said we were winning the salary cap game, I said I don’t want the priority of the GM to be future salary cap ramifications while Josh Allen is on the roster.

 

 I understand your view, I just disagree with it, no big deal.

Edited August 4 by julian

[transplantbillsfan]

I think we actually end up getting a long term deal done. Reports are coming out from multiple sources that both camps are close.

 

I'd be happy getting Cook signed to a 3 year $45m extension if they can get it done. 4 years at $60 I'm more ehhhh about. This has been argued about already, but I'd still view a 3 year at $45m extension as simply the 4 year $50m ($12.5m AAV) contract that it would actually be. Even a 4 year at 60 contract would really just be basically a $13.5 AAV contract that would almost certainly have outs built into year 2 or year 3.

 

If the holdup at this point is a Parsons trade I'm all for it as long as it's not more than 1 first thrown in with Cook and possibly Epenesa.

[PrimeTime101]

36 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

I think we actually end up getting a long term deal done. Reports are coming out from multiple sources that both camps are close.

 

I'd be happy getting Cook signed to a 3 year $45m extension if they can get it done. 4 years at $60 I'm more ehhhh about. This has been argued about already, but I'd still view a 3 year at $45m extension as simply the 4 year $50m ($12.5m AAV) contract that it would actually be. Even a 4 year at 60 contract would really just be basically a $13.5 AAV contract that would almost certainly have outs built into year 2 or year 3.

 

If the holdup at this point is a Parsons trade I'm all for it as long as it's not more than 1 first thrown in with Cook and possibly Epenesa.

To the bolded.. ive heard that a million times and nothing gets done... 

 

That being said... 

 

It is interesting time for him to do what he is doing right now.. My gut is that Cook's agent gave a final offer.. so in this case you may be right.

[billsfan714]

Im firmly on board with extending Cook.    3 years max, but the dude gets slippery yards like Shakir, yards that not everyone can see and get.  Plus he can take it to the house.   Each year Josh get older, we need backs that aren't Tolbert or Singletary or Moss.    Cook has been a great surprise and has real nose for the endzone.   His play on the field warrants an extension way, way more than a Dawson Knox did.  Its not even close.  

[Fan in Chicago]

Totally hypothetical - would you trade Cook and pick to get Mclaurin? I know there is a difference in AAV but is it a trade you would make? 

I think it's a tough tough decision but I would do it. Cook is terrific in our offense but McLaurin would make the overall O unstoppable. 

At RB , get a veteran and ride with him, Davis and Johnson. 

Edited August 4 by Fan in Chicago

[Big Blitz]

So episode 1 of Hard Knocks concluding scene:

 

 

Liev Schreiber - “A notable ‘absence’ here on this first practice after the return of the Red and Blue at Highmark.”

 

*James Cook shown on bike*

 

Liev Schrieber:  “This of course is notable and raises eye brows with the media and fans.”

 

*Camera cuts to Cook*

 

Cook:  “Business.”

 

*Cut to credits*
 

[BillsFanForever19]

2 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Totally hypothetical - would you trade Cook and pick to get Mclaurin? I know there is a difference in AAV but is it a trade you would make? 

I think it's a tough tough decision but I would do it. Cook is terrific in our offense but McLaurin would make the overall O unstoppable. 

At RB , get a veteran and ride with him, Davis and Johnson. 

 

What veteran?

 

The Free Agent RB market has been completely picked through. There's nothing of value left:

 

Jamaal Williams (30)

Zack Moss (28)

Gus Edwards (30)

Jeff Wilson (30)

Ameer Abdullah (32)

Chase Edmonds (29)

JaMychal Hasty (29)

D'Onta Foreman (29)

Mike Boone (30)

Josh Kelly (29)

Chris Evans (28)

Owen Wright (26)

 

Let Cook do what he wants. He isn't going to hold out games or not be at camp and take the fines that would cost six figures per. He "likes his money" too much for that. Let him throw a hissy fit for a bit. If he wants a team to pay him, he's going to have to produce. He knows it. The team knows it.

 

Davis and Johnson are nice roleplayers. Davis for tough yardage and change of pace. Johnson for blocking and receiving. But to rely on them on 1st and 2nd down to move the chains, or any from that murderers row list above, would be a massive downgrade to our offense this season.

 

And if they don't want to pay 15m per for Cook, I question whether they want to pay around 30m per for 29 year old McLaurin. I know WR is a different animal than RB. But it's still a much larger ticket.

Edited August 4 by BillsFanForever19

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

To the bolded.. ive heard that a million times and nothing gets done... 

 

That being said... 

 

It is interesting time for him to do what he is doing right now.. My gut is that Cook's agent gave a final offer.. so in this case you may be right.

 

Even Joe Marino in his podcast today said that was what he was hearing while he was in WNY. And he's pretty anti-extension

[Matt_In_NH]

6 hours ago, julian said:

I never said we were winning the salary cap game, I said I don’t want the priority of the GM to be future salary cap ramifications while Josh Allen is on the roster.

But Josh Allen will be on the roster in the future, probably another 10 years-ish

[Matt_In_NH]

5 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

To the bolded.. ive heard that a million times and nothing gets done... 

 

That being said... 

 

It is interesting time for him to do what he is doing right now.. My gut is that Cook's agent gave a final offer.. so in this case you may be right.

I think there is enough smoke that says they are at least talking...they are "close", who knows.....Beane needs to always do what he thinks is right, not just appease fans....given what Cook brings to the table (good and not so good) and his output the last two years and the position of RB I understand the dilemma from both ends.  His agent is doing his job, Beane is doing his, they don't HAVE to agree.   This is negations, I believe it will likely get resolved.   They could give him some void money next year without an extension.  Diggs got an extra million or two a couple times in training camp.  I think something gets done, it's a game of poker, right now Cook has the cards....when you get closer to the regular season and he stands to lose 1/17 of 5.2 million each week, it will be the Bills who have more leverage.....just let it play out.

[ScottishBills]

7 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

You speak as if we're already winning the "salary cap award of the year".

 

As it is, we're having to budget shop. You want a DK Metcalf or Terry McLaurin? Best we can do is Joshua Palmer and Elijah Moore. You want us to swing for the fences on a DE that's on the market? Best we can do is Joey Bosa. Want to go get a stud CB? Best we can do is Tre White, Dane Jackson, and Draft Picks. Think DaQuan Jones is toast? All good, we'll get a 1T in Round 4.

And through all of that and the economy moves to mid-tier moves, we're dead last in the league in Salary Cap - sitting at -750k. Next year, we sit at -2.93 million with at least 17 players who will make this roster needing to be re-signed or replaced. Including 4 of our to be rostered Offensive Lineman, 2 of which starters. 

 

We aren't remotely close to winning in the salary cap game right now. Haven't been in a good many years. We're in rough, rough shape. I don't believe the kind of contract that Micah Parsons will demand is feasible. And if it is, the amount of players in the coming years we'd have no choice to let walk would be staggering.

 

Everyone likes to point to the Rams. It's no guarantee that going "all in" like the Rams did will guarantee the same result. And if you do that and not get to the promised land, we're putting Josh in even more hell for years to come and wasting more of his years.

 

Somewhere within this is where the 2 points meet though isnt it?

You are 100% right in what you say, no doubt - and yet which elite players do we have away from QB? Benford, maybe the tackles? 

The reality is that for some fans (me included) we concentrate on and pay too much to the middle classes - 7 out of 10 players who keep us in and around the best teams in the league - but cant take it over the top in a one-off elimination game

 

The Eagles trashed the Chiefs in the SB, and yes that pass rush was great - but they were rushing from ahead, because AJ Brown burned their DBs badly. Twice.

In the Championship Game, Saquon burned whoever they played. More than twice 🤣

Teams are scared of and game plan for Derrick Henry, JaMarr Chase, Gibbs. Will Andersen and Hunter sack QBs for fun.

You need elite in the play-offs - and often that elite player and a "scrub" work out better than 2 pretty good players because those games turn on a play here or there.

 

No right answer here, as I said you are 100% right with what you say from that point of view

The alternate is how about we buy in the elite factor for a couple years and see if that has a different result. Because as things stand, the overwhelming likelihood is that we have a great season, win a wild card game and maybe a divisional game and then lose out to the Ravens or Chiefs by 3 points in a game where we fell 1 play short. I totally get a lot of people are happy with that. They should be just as happy to accept that others see an alternative option that they would like to see pursued.

 

*Cap concerns are nonsese. I get that its real - but multiple teams have  fixed the bulk of it by taking one bad season. Which simultaneously gets you a nice 1st round draft pick and a chance to play multiple cheap guys and find a couple gems in there too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RoscoeParrish]

7 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

You want a DK Metcalf or Terry McLaurin? Best we can do is Joshua Palmer and Elijah Moore.

Palmer, Moore and Ogunjobi have the same cap hit as DK Metcalf. 
 

That’s not the “best they can do.” That’s what they decided to do INSTEAD of going after star talent.

 

We aren’t forced to budget shop. We prefer it.

[BarleyNY]

35 minutes ago, ScottishBills said:

 

Somewhere within this is where the 2 points meet though isnt it?

You are 100% right in what you say, no doubt - and yet which elite players do we have away from QB? Benford, maybe the tackles? 

The reality is that for some fans (me included) we concentrate on and pay too much to the middle classes - 7 out of 10 players who keep us in and around the best teams in the league - but cant take it over the top in a one-off elimination game

 

The Eagles trashed the Chiefs in the SB, and yes that pass rush was great - but they were rushing from ahead, because AJ Brown burned their DBs badly. Twice.

In the Championship Game, Saquon burned whoever they played. More than twice 🤣

Teams are scared of and game plan for Derrick Henry, JaMarr Chase, Gibbs. Will Andersen and Hunter sack QBs for fun.

You need elite in the play-offs - and often that elite player and a "scrub" work out better than 2 pretty good players because those games turn on a play here or there.

 

No right answer here, as I said you are 100% right with what you say from that point of view

The alternate is how about we buy in the elite factor for a couple years and see if that has a different result. Because as things stand, the overwhelming likelihood is that we have a great season, win a wild card game and maybe a divisional game and then lose out to the Ravens or Chiefs by 3 points in a game where we fell 1 play short. I totally get a lot of people are happy with that. They should be just as happy to accept that others see an alternative option that they would like to see pursued.

 

*Cap concerns are nonsese. I get that its real - but multiple teams have  fixed the bulk of it by taking one bad season. Which simultaneously gets you a nice 1st round draft pick and a chance to play multiple cheap guys and find a couple gems in there too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really agree with everything here, but I’d like to expand on the salary cap part. It goes hand in hand with what you wrote about paying too much to the middle class. That’s obviously a choice the Bills have made on how to construct their roster. Once made, it doesn’t allow for room to acquire a dominant talent should one come available. So I think that concerns over HOW the Bills are spending are very valid. I think they’re banking on stability, getting into the mix every season and hoping things break their way in the playoffs. But without any elite players other than Allen, I think those odds are less than they appear when looking at where the Bills have finished every year. A 75 yard Henry run or Chase Mossing a DB on a bomb can change the outcome of a playoff game. 

 

I also think that it’ll be tough to take a bad year for a reset. At least not for a couple seasons anyway. That’s due to the contracts given out this season. They should have enough space that they could add one high end contract next offseason if they so choose. They’d have to go low on filling other holes, but I’d like to see them take a shot on such a player if one is available.

Edited August 4 by BarleyNY

[Neo]

14 hours ago, JimBob2232 said:

 Totally different situation.  Diggs is a drama queen.  Cook, al least to this point, has not been.  He is a top 10 RB in a world that no longer pays top dollar for RB performance.  The Bills know this.  Cook knows this.  His Agent knows this.  All sides are doing what is in their best interest.  It appears Cook is trying to tip toe on that line between his best interest and the teams best interest.  I cant fault him for this AT ALL. Add in that Cook is not irreplaceable - and it's far from a given he will continue to be a top 10 RB - and this situation is just bad.  Naturally, I hope is is on the field too.  Best case for everyone is he comes back on his current deal, runs for 2,000 yards and get a Lombardi and a massive pay-day.  But I think more realistically - unless he agrees to take a more moderate deal - I see this dragging out and impacting the season.  Unfortunately.

With respect and acknowledgement, I’ll follow up.   I agree with all you wrote.

 

You wrote about drama.  I’m no producer, but I suspect drama manufacturing HBO has Cook as story board topic #1.

 

You wrote about seeing, more realistically, dragging out and impacting the season.

 

These are reasons #1 and #2 that led me to “I am approaching.”

[ScottishBills]

24 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Really agree with everything here, but I’d like to expand on the salary cap part. It goes hand in hand with what you wrote about paying too much to the middle class. That’s obviously a choice the Bills have made on how to construct their roster. Once made, it doesn’t allow for room to acquire a dominant talent should one come available. So I think that concerns over HOW the Bills are spending are very valid. I think they’re banking on stability, getting into the mix every season and hoping things break their way in the playoffs. But without any elite players other than Allen, I think those odds are less than they appear when looking at where the Bills have finished every year. A 75 yard Henry run or Chase Mossing a DB on a bomb can change the outcome of a playoff game. 

 

I also think that it’ll be tough to take a bad year for a reset. At least not for a couple seasons anyway. That’s due to the contracts given out this season. They should have enough space that they could add one high end contract next offseason if they so choose. They’d have to go low on filling other holes, but I’d like to see them take a shot on such a player if one is available.

Yeah I think we are on the same page here more or less. I thought this might be that season after taking the Diggs medicine last year, but then they start filling up with mid level again - Palmer comes in on top of Samuel and the cap is full again. 

 

The effective result (imo anyway) is that our WR4, CB4, DT3 etc etc are better than league average. But we have no players who scare anyone apart from 17. 

 

I'd rather have seen (for example only) what Metcalf,Shakir, Coleman + random cheap guy + a 4ish round rookie can do Vs what Shakir, Coleman, Samuel, Moore, Palmer and Hamler and Shavers can do. 

[DJB]

 

 

[Warriorspikes51]

IMO  3 years 12 per is fair for both sides.  But, I doubt that happens 

[DJB]

 

[Warriorspikes51]

1 minute ago, DJB said:

 

 

 

Lol....Beane is better off not going on WGR